Agnosticism, Atheism, Christianity, Culture, Faith, God, Religion, Truth

The Problem of Hell Part 2: Logical Issues

We are told that Hell is a place of punishment for those who do not serve God. Yet we’re also told that we are God’s children, and he wants us all to be saved. After I had spent some time as a father, I began to realize that there are some deep logical problems with the concept of Hell. First of all, punishment is a necessity when raising children. They need to learn that certain behaviors are just unacceptable. And punishment is also necessary in a society to encourage people to obey the laws of the land.

But punishment only has value when the punished has an opportunity to correct their behavior. If someone is punished continually with no opportunity to demonstrate better behavior, then it’s not really punishment; it’s torture. According to most Christians, no one today is going to get the benefit that Paul had when Christ appeared to him personally (Acts 9). In other words, God is not going to intervene in our lives to tell us if we’re doing this all wrong. Instead, we’ll go through life and only find out at the end if we managed to get it right. At that point, it’s too late to correct anything if we messed up – we’re simply left with an eternity of torture to look forward to.

If I know that parking lots are dangerous for my kids, I don’t just let them figure that out on their own. I don’t expect them to simply read a sign that warns of the danger. Instead, I talk directly to my children about those dangers, over and over again. But even then, I don’t just let go and hope they’ll remember the lessons; I hold their hands. I show them examples of how fast cars sometimes drive, or how people can’t easily see small children. I use every trip to the grocery store as an opportunity to reaffirm those teachings so that they don’t fall prey to the dangers of parking lots. And it’s only when they’ve reached a more mature age and understand many of the things I’ve told them that I let them walk across the parking lot without holding my hand. But even then, I’m still close by to grab them if something goes wrong. It takes a long time before I can let them handle that responsibility on their own.

I know that’s a very simplistic example, but I hope my point is coming through. If Hell is really waiting for the vast majority of humanity, then I don’t know why the message saving us from it is hidden amongst many other religious texts with no modern day signs to verify it. In all honesty, I don’t know why it’s not just beamed into everyone’s head so that there’s no excuse about what to do. People could still choose to do it or not – that’s up to them – but at least they would know what’s expected. It’s unthinkable to me that God’s system is set up so that many people are able to go through life convinced that the Bible is either invalid, or convinced that they’re already doing it right when they’re really not. I used to think that God’s Word would only be evident to those who are really searching for it. But that doesn’t really fly if God cares about us like a father would. My children may have no interest in parking lots, but I’m still going to make sure they are aware of the dangers.

The other aspect of Hell that I find so troubling is that I can’t really think of anyone who would deserve to go there. Even the people in our societies who tend to commit the worst offenses typically have some severe problems of their own. I don’t view that as an excuse, but it’s not like these are normal, rational people. Even considering a mass murderer, there is only so much evil he could do in a finite lifetime. Is it really justice for him to be tortured forever?

But for the sake of argument, let’s say that Hell was only reserved for the worst people (rapists, murderers, etc). That doesn’t bother our conscience too much because we all agree those people deserve punishment. But what if one of those horrible people was your child? Would you still think they should be tormented forever? Is that really the punishment that would be appropriate for them? Or would you opt for a more humane form of punishment – perhaps even one that would allow your child to rehabilitate?

We are all God’s children. He created us all. So why would he be okay with sending any of us to a place of eternal torment? If he’s okay with it, can he really be called “all-good” or “all-loving”? And if he would prefer to do something different but can’t, how can he be “all-powerful”?

But our biggest problem is that the Bible teaches that many more than just the vilest of people will go to Hell. Hell will be filled with people who gave their lives for others, people who raised loving families, people who pulled others out of burning buildings, and people who earnestly believed they were serving God. That nice cashier at the grocery store is probably going to Hell. The grade school teacher that really made an impact on you as you were growing up is probably going to Hell. Many of the children in your town will probably go to Hell. Many of the firefighters that died on 9/11 probably went to Hell. Many (maybe even most) of the people that you encounter in your life – down to the guy sitting next to you in traffic – are going to Hell.

I first started to think about this issue because of the news reports I heard about soldiers who were dying in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their family members and friends would talk about them – many of these soldiers had young spouses or children they had left behind. And I kept thinking about what a tragedy it was that their lives were cut so short. And the worst part was the realization that most of those soldiers were bound for Hell, if my beliefs were correct (I was a member of a very conservative group, the Church of Christ). That realization made everything seem so pointless!

I was also disheartened by the tsunami in Myanmar and the earthquake in Haiti. Hundreds of thousands of people died in those disasters. And these events happened in parts of the world that were not predominantly Christian. The people in those places lived in sickness, hunger, and poverty. To top it all off, they were killed in a horribly frightening manner, and then sent to Hell (according to my previous beliefs). Why?

Some people would say that we simply don’t understand God’s glory and the nature of sin. Sin is simply so disgusting to God that he can’t have any part of it. I’m willing to admit that we may not understand either of those things to their fullest potential. But at the same time, God must expect us to have some understanding of it; otherwise, why would he require us to search for his truth and follow it? If it’s impossible (or at least very difficult) for us to see just how bad sin really is, then why are we held accountable to it? It seems to me that it would be like building a school in the middle of a minefield, and then being angry at the kids who blew themselves up. We created the environment, and we know that it’s in children’s nature to explore, so wouldn’t we be ultimately responsible for what happens to them? And if God can’t be in the presence of sin, how was he able to save the non-Israelites before Christianity was established (Acts 17:30)? And if he was able to save them that way, why not apply that method to everyone, so more people could be saved?

If God wants everyone to be in Heaven with him, then why did he create the Earth? Why not just create us in Heaven? And why does our eternal destiny rely on what we do here, when we don’t fully understand God’s glory or the nature of sin? When my wife was pregnant with our first child, we had an ultrasound done very early on – within the first three months or so. Our daughter was very tiny, and when we watched her, she had plenty of room to kick and flip and spin around, and my wife and I laughed while we watched it. Now, I could have decided that since she behaved that way en utero, then she should become a gymnast. But that’s a little ridiculous. My daughter had no concept of what life was like outside of the womb. She couldn’t even imagine it. So choosing her life’s profession off of what she did in the womb would be crazy. It seems to me that we’re not much different, spiritually. None of us really knows what awaits us in the next life. And just like my daughter only spent 9 months in the womb and could spend 90 years in this life, so our eternal life (if it exists) would be much more important than the one we have now. So why should an infinite life be based on the decisions made in a brief, finite life? And why should our eternal destiny be decided by us, when we’ve got no idea what we’re dealing with? We can’t make a clear decision.

And that is evident when Christians say that people have chosen to go to Hell, rather than God choosing to send them there. This whole arrangement was supposedly God’s idea – and the rewards that await us in the end are completely by his design. Knowing what we do about Heaven and Hell, who would honestly choose the latter? No one who really knew what they were choosing. Some Christians will talk about those who “trample the Son of God underfoot” (Heb 10:26-31), but many of those heading to Hell honestly think they’re serving God. They’re merely playing the game by the wrong rules, and for the most part it’s because they can’t see what the “true” rules really are.

Some people would say that all people deserve punishment – it’s only God’s grace that allows even a few of us to avoid it. I disagree. As a whole, I think people are pretty good and try to do pretty good things. Are we perfect? Of course not. But that doesn’t make us evil or undeserving of good things. After all, even God said it was “good” when he made man, according to Genesis. I want my children to know that they have some innate self worth. It’s okay with me if no one ever goes to Hell. To some degree, we are all broken. Wouldn’t it be nice to be taken care of at the end, and not punished for our insufficiencies? Should you go to Hell for your short temper, or your “unbridled tongue,” or because you aren’t hospitable enough? Does a poor, old, illiterate man deserve to go to Hell because he can’t read the Bible for himself to see what’s required?

And if Hell is real, how can the Book of Revelation say that the end of time will be a great victory for Christ and God? The vast majority of people throughout time will go to Hell, and only a tiny fraction of them will be saved. How does that count as a victory? In fact, why did God allow Satan to have so much power over his creation if this is the end result? And how can the gospel be the “good news” if the reality is that most people remain lost?

And if Hell does exist, what are we to make of Heaven? If you go to Heaven, but your children go to Hell, how could you be happy? One of the theories is that you’ll have no memory of those who are in Hell. But is that comforting? When people have severe Alzheimer’s and can’t remember anyone, but still remain in a happy mood most of the time, are we happy for them? Do we view that as an optimal way to live? Of course not – they’ve ceased to be who they were. When we lose our memories, we are no longer the same individuals. We have become different people. So if Heaven just lets you forget all the people who went to Hell, that’s not really eternal life. You would no longer be the same person – your identity would be gone. Therefore, I’m inclined to think that if Hell exists, Heaven does not.

And if you do make it to Heaven, the Bible seems to teach that you’ll be there forever. Does that mean that you lose your free will? After all, Satan and his angels apparently had the ability to sin in Heaven. Wouldn’t we have that same ability? If we had the capacity to sin in Heaven, then surely God wouldn’t allow us to stay there; but that would violate the concept of being there forever. And if he takes away our free will, then we’re no better than robots. Does God just want robots? If he’s okay with that, why do we have free will now?

These are emotional arguments; I know that. If Hell is real, and if it operates the way we understand it to, then that’s just the way things are whether we like it or not. But bear with me as I offer this point again. The whole question up for debate is whether or not the men who wrote the Bible were inspired. If they weren’t, then we’re just reading the thoughts of a bunch of different people that lived two thousand or more years ago. Teachings like the doctrine of Hell can help us make a decision about the truth of the overall message. That’s why it’s important to look at this with some skepticism. As a side note, these reasons are why atheists and agnostics are not moved when people try to reach them using the threat of Hell. We simply don’t believe in it – it would be like warning someone about the boogeyman.

When we really face it, it is apparent that the concept of Hell has some major logical problems if God really is merciful, loving, and just. And while the New Testament definitely teaches about Heaven and Hell, it is very striking that the Old Testament is essentially silent about it (see previous post). So is Hell really part of God’s plan, or is it just part of man’s imagination?

39 thoughts on “The Problem of Hell Part 2: Logical Issues”

  1. Hi MAT,

    Thanks for the kind reply.

    I think you’re right that most unbelievers don’t believe in God due to a lack of evidence, though there are some philosophical considerations that play a factor too.

    The feelings of the Holy Spirit that you describe are certainly powerful emotions, but I remain skeptical that they’re actually caused by the Holy Spirit. Most faith traditions claim to have similar experiences. To me, this shows how easily we can be influenced by our emotions.

    However, if you get peace and comfort from your beliefs, then I think that’s great for you. Strong religious beliefs can be a good thing; they’re usually only detrimental when people take them to extremes. Religiously motivated terrorism is one obvious example. Shunning, or withdrawal, is another example — one that I’ve experienced. Those are two of the negatives that can sometimes accompany religion. But I won’t deny that religion can have some positive effects, and if you find that your life is improved by your beliefs, great.

    Thanks again for your comments. And I appreciate your sharing a little more about yourself and your beliefs. Take care!

    Like

  2. Well spoken and well argued. The argument about choosing the career of your unborn daughter based on her behavior in the womb is very powerful. Thank you.

    Like

  3. the logical issues don’t just end in hell, but also present themselves with heaven and god as the bible portrays him.

    – Heaven: No sorrows, but most people will be in hell, including loved ones.
    If the angels were cast down for their wickedness in heaven, will the saved also be cast out when they sin because of their freewill? Will they have freewill in heaven? If not, I though god didn’t want robots serving him? If there is freewill, and the saved will be kept from sinning, why couldn’t god do that here on earth? and why are there those in heaven (rev 6:10) who cry for vengeance if they’re perfectly content and happy in heaven?

    -God: A perfect being? Did he need to make people or just want to? If a need, then how is he perfect if he’s lacking something? If he wanted to, then why does a perfect being want to be worshiped? How can perfect creator have a flawed creation?

    and if the universe and the earth is so complex and in such order, that that sheer fact alone argues for a creator, then how could god, being even more complex and even greater than his creation not need a creator?

    Like

  4. another logical problem is the bible itself. Why would all powerful god, who could speak the world into existence, need a book to convey his message?

    and why couldnt he have written the book himself?

    why need men to write it?

    why not just talk to all the people that god is said to love so dearly? he loved us all enough to have his son killed, but wont talk to the people he loves so much, or even pen his own book?

    And why not write it in stone, or some other way that would preserve the original?

    Like

  5. I seem to recall you and I going round and round about hell a few times, so I won’t bother to link my several posts on it here. I simply point out the obvious, that without it there is no justice for the truly evil, and fairness is always the atheists cry against God, that He is not fair. You cannot have it both ways, regardless of whether you find it logical or pleasing.

    Like

  6. humblesmith — just a few words about “hell.”

    In my (considerable) personal research, I have been convinced there is no hell.

    For the early Hebrews, there was only sheol, the abode of the dead. (The Greek translation is the word hades, which also means nothing more than the grave, a dark unknown state.) There is nothing in the Torah that speaks of endless punishment or an eternity of torture after someone dies. In fact, it wasn’t until the Babylonian capture and the exposure to Zoroastrianism that the idea of afterlife punishment was introduced.

    Unfortunately, over the years, many stories (e.g., the Book of Enoch) have been written and spread about “hell” until it has come to mean a place of everlasting torment reserved for those who refuse to accept Jesus/God. But the fact remains, it was not part of the early Jewish belief system, upon which the Christian religion is based.

    One further point — the idea of non-believers being condemned to a place of punishment after death is directly related to the belief in an immortal soul (meaning, at death the soul leaves the body and lives on consciously forever). This teaching began with the Egyptians, was later adapted by the Greeks, and then further developed by Paul. In actuality, this doctrine is not biblical and is nowhere expressly taught in scripture.

    As for your remark about justice for the truly evil … who is to say what is evil? There are many peoples throughout the world that carry out practices that “we” might consider “demonic” and/or “evil.” Yet what gives us the right to pronounce judgment? Just because the religion we were born into condemns it?

    Liked by 1 person

  7. I simply point out the obvious, that without it there is no justice for the truly evil, and fairness is always the atheists cry against God, that He is not fair.

    Yes, some very terrible things may never be made right, and some very terrible people may never face justice. There’s some quote that I can’t seem to remember, but it essentially says the truth may not pleasant, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

    As to the fairness thing, I think the criticism is more that the Bible’s depiction of God doesn’t match up with the attributes they claim he has: justice, love, mercy, etc. He just seems logically inconsistent.

    Like

  8. The essential problem I have with Hell, as portrayed in classic Christian doctrine is that it seems it is a onesize fits all punishment and it is eternal.

    In modern human terms it would be characterised as cruel and unusual punishment.

    A period of chastisement with annihilation could be argued to be just, but eternal torture not.

    Having said all that, in my view the Bible teaching on Hell is far from as clear as fundamentalist imply.

    The other problem is that the standard set be ‘God’ is admitted as being impossible to attain, so that hardly makes ‘God’ fair.

    The more I think about Hell, the more I see it as an Achilles Heel in Christian doctrine. It certainly rules out ‘God’ being either just or loving.

    Like

  9. I don’t think it’s hard to imagine a perfect and loving creator wanting to be fair to it’s creation.

    Without a perfect, loving or just creator, with only “nature,” unfairness and suffering make a bit more sense, because there’s no heavenly father above looking down on his beloved creation, who has the ability to step in stop suffering and pain, yet does not.

    And like nate said, the bible gives attributes of god, but the writes about him doing many things counter to those attributes.

    Like

Leave a comment