Not long ago, fellow blogger John Zande wrote an excellent post titled “Jesus Christ: Just Not Worth a Sheet of Paper.” It’s actually not as derogatory as the title suggests. Some apologists have suggested that the reason we have no contemporary accounts of Jesus’ life is that paper was so expensive. That’s the argument John deals with in his post.
His post is great — you should read it. But what I actually want to write about is one of the comments that someone left on it. Diana of NarrowWayApologetics.com left a lengthy comment that I decided to include here in its entirety. I identified with it a bit. It reminded me of some of the thoughts I used to have as a Christian:
One of the main reasons people believed Paul was because he explained the reason for Jesus coming into the world. His teachings were amazing. They explained how Jesus “fulfilled the law and the prophets.” I wrote this comment in response to John Zande’s comment on my blog last night. Forgive me for posting it here. Just ignore if you don’t want to read it.
“This passage about Jesus fulfilling the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17-20) is one of the main reasons I believe the Gospel message. The incredible ways that Jesus did this are beyond human ability to create. I don’t think any mystery writer could have weaved together the incredible ways Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets.
I know this post is long, so if you want to skip the parts between the dotted lines, I understand. I just wrote it for anyone who might be interested.
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First of all, there are many ways Jesus fulfilled the law. In fact, believers are constantly astounded by how intricately Jesus fulfilled the law.One way he fulfilled the law was by fulfilling the Sabbath. The Sabbath was the seventh day of rest that the Jews were commanded to obey. Jesus fulfilled the law of the Sabbath by becoming our rest for us. (Hebrews 4:9-11) He said his burden was light and his yoke was easy. Christians no longer practice the Sabbath. They worship on Sunday, rather than Saturday. They enter into his rest and no longer do religious works for salvation. (They are saved by grace through faith.)
Jesus fulfilled the law when he became the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. His death on the cross was similar to the Exodus story, which described the lamb, whose blood would be placed on the doorposts of the home, causing the death angel to pass over that home. (Hebrews 9)
Jesus fulfilled the law when he became the unleavened bread of the Exodus story. Leaven is a symbol of sin and false teaching (1 Cor. 5:6-8, Matt. 16:12). Jesus fulfilled this feast by being sinless and being the TRUTH.
Another way that Jesus fulfilled the law was by becoming a tithe (firstfruits) for us. (Leviticus 23:10) He fulfilled the tithe by becoming the firstfruits from the dead when he was resurrected. (1 Cor. 15:20) Christians are no longer bound by a tithe, instead we are told to be cheerful givers. We are also promised that there will be a resurrection for us because of what Christ did for us.
Jesus fulfilled the law when he became a light to the Gentiles. In the law of Moses, the people were commanded to leave behind the gleanings (or leftovers) of the harvest for the poor and aliens. (Lev. 23:22) This would be fulfilled at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came down and the gospel was preached in all languages, offering salvation to all, not just the Jews. (Acts 10:34-35)
These fulfillments of the law were actually the first 4 feasts that would be celebrated every year by the Jews. They would be celebrated according to the seasons. The feasts celebrated during the early rains were the fulfilled at the time of the early church. Three more feasts are waiting to be fulfilled at the end of the age (or at the time of the latter rains). These three feasts are the feast of trumpets (representing the return of Jesus), the feast day of atonement (representing the salvation of the Jews), and the feast of tabernacles (representing the time when we will all be with the Lord).
There are so many other ways in which Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets. And none of it has to do with Jesus expecting or commanding Christians to obey the law to perfection. It has to do with how it’s impossible for anyone to keep the law. That is why Jesus came. How could any human conceive of a way to have even a made-up, fictional character fulfill all these things? And I’ve barely scratched the surface of the way Jesus accomplished these things.
The greatest concern I feel burdened about is how to convey the magnificence of what I’m trying to explain. He was the manna from heaven. He was the living water. He was the high priest in the order of Melchizedek. He is the “I AM.” He is the Word become flesh. He became a slave for us. (Philippians 2:7) He became a curse for us. He became sin for us, so we could become righteous before God. He offers us mercy because his blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat. All of this is explained in the scriptures.
I haven’t even begun to explain the way Jesus fulfilled the prophets.
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The story of Jewish history and the giving of the law is actually a way to PROVE the reality of God’s plan for the salvation of humanity through Jesus Christ. One random fact doesn’t prove anything, but the cumulative effect of ALL the fulfillments makes the Bible a miraculous book. This is why some of the brightest and best minds in the history of the world have loved and received Jesus. It isn’t a decision based on emotion alone, but a decision based on knowledge. And the more I learn, the more I am in awe of what God did and how he accomplished it.”
To say that the story of Jesus was just created by pasting together myths, fictional narratives, sayings, and borrowed phrases (as Ken Humphreys does) is a ridiculous claim because only a Christ could have conceived of a Christ. Who could have created the amazing Jesus portrayed in the Gospels and explained further by Paul?
Of course, I now see that there are several problems with this line of thinking. In 2015, Star Wars Episode 7 is supposed to hit theaters. Will it shock anyone if the movie syncs up perfectly with the previous 6? The thing is, when there is already an established back story, it’s not impossible to construct a narrative that builds upon it. The fact that we as readers see the parallels between the stories of Jesus and events in the Old Testament is not an accident. The authors intended for us to see those parallels, and there’s no reason why they couldn’t have invented them — even if Jesus was a real person.
Matthew is one of the best books to look to for evidence of this. Matthew is the only book that tells of Jesus’ family fleeing to Egypt to escape Herod’s infanticide. Both events, fleeing to Egypt and the infanticide, seem to be inspired by Matthew’s reading of the Old Testament. Hosea 11:1 says, “out of Egypt, I called my son.” Matthew says that this prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus’ family returned after fleeing to Egypt. But when you read the entire chapter of Hosea 11, it’s very evident that the passage has nothing to do with the Messiah, but is simply talking about Israel’s period of captivity in Egypt.
Matthew also claims that Herod’s slaughter of infants in Bethlehem was to fulfill this prophecy:
A voice is heard in Ramah,
lamentation and bitter weeping.
Rachel is weeping for her children;
she refuses to be comforted for her children,
because they are no more.
But once again, when we read all of Jeremiah 31, this was no prophecy at all. The chapter is talking about Israel’s captivity in Assyria. Nothing else.
The author of Matthew took these passages and used them to add parallels to the story about Jesus’ birth. It didn’t require magic or divine inspiration to do that — it only took knowledge of these passages. Just like the people working on Star Wars 7 don’t need divine intervention to let them know about Darth Vader.
Diana ends her comment by asking who could have created such a compelling story. Who could have created Christ? But why couldn’t we ask this about anyone? Who could have created Darth Vader? He’s quite a compelling character himself. Who could have created someone as magnificent as Santa Claus? Or Paul Bunyan? Or Achilles? Or King Arthur? Just asking this question doesn’t really mean anything. If Jesus never existed, then someone did just create his story. Or if he was a real person, but not divine, then his story was embellished. We have to draw our conclusions about Jesus based on the evidence, including the fact that Matthew seemed to feel the need to create “prophecies” to give Jesus credibility.
Finding Truth 
Couldn’t agree more Arch!!! I’ve always said that William Lane Craig loves to use the Big Bang as his incredibly convincing proof for God, but then he questions evolution (although he smartly questions it a bit more quietly nowadays). There does seem to be some inconsistency in the way some apologists treat some solid conclusions of science as truth that proves their point versus other solid conclusions of science as incorrect because it doesn’t seem to help prove their point.
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Howie,
My point about lack of evidence was directed to Finkelstien. He is searching for proof that the Exodus account never happened, and he is looking in the wrong place. So a lack of evidence means absolutely nothing. Let me give you an example… If I was to look for evidence of Lyudmila Pavlichenko during the time of the first world War, I would not find her, but that doesn’t mean she never existed, it means that I was looking in the wrong place.
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Evolution goes against scientific law, so while the story is neat, it is still unscientific, and will never be proven the way it stands. That does not mean I don’t believe in micro evolution.
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So, prithee, where SHOULD he be looking? PLEASE tell me you’re not one of those who believes that Mt. Sinai is located in Saudi Arabia, Ah’m beggin’ ya –
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What scientific law are we talking about, Laurie?
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Laurie,
You seem to be using the conclusions of scientists to show that scientists are a bunch of dishonest people.
I’m also not sure which law you are talking about, but look toward evangelicals for an answer to this common statement that you have made:
http://biologos.org/questions/evolution-and-the-second-law
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Laurie, you wrote:
Please accept my apologies for misunderstanding what you wrote (truly not meant to be smarmy). It was just that I have heard this statement a lot before from apologists about lack of evidence not being proof of anything and I wanted to make sure it was clarified. What you had written looked like more of a blanket statement, but I also frequently write so fast that I write things that don’t come out the way I am thinking.
I don’t know about Finkelstien to respond about him, but I’ve read that old testament scholars do seem to be coming to a consensus that at least some (maybe a lot) of the stories in the old testament are fictional.
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Thanks Howie,
Arch, do you read my posts? They are not looking in the right time period. The Exodus occurred in 2450 B.C. Back up and you will see that the data fits. Egypt was struck by a natural disaster that caused the collapse of the kingdom near the end of the 6th dynasty, both Jericho and Ai were destroyed 2400 B.C. And they have found the trail of the Israelites and the remains of the encampment
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Howie,
That was an interesting article, thanks for posting it. There seems to be an enormous amount of things that evolution can’t explain. What happens today when cells mutate? Does it create a different species? Medical science shows that when a cell mutates, the body attacks it and kills it. Cancer is a mutation in your cells that replicates.
Maybe a frog jumped out of the water and evolved into a cow, but all the other frogs just kept being frogs. But we do not have (at this time) scientific evidence to support that. Frogs produce frogs and cows cows. How did vanilla evolve, and why do butterflies have different colors? We found a Tyrannosaurus that is 3000 years old, how does this fit? Doesn’t the sun shrink each year? It must have been pretty hot here a billion years ago. How does information pass? These are questions that need to be answered. Maybe they will. But right now, it is still a theory. So if I choose to teach my children about science, but not evolution, is that wrong?
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It seems as though few of us can agree on what the scriptures mean. I have recently found a bible translation written by a child that I think we can all agree on for once. I don’t think even unkleE will challenge this ! 🙂 Forgive me if I am being light hearted. Sometimes we all need to take a deep breath and smile.
In the beginning, which occurred near the start, there was nothing but God, darkness, and some gas. The Bible says, “The Lord thy God is one,” but I think He must be a lot older than that.
Anyway, God said, “Give me a light!” and someone did. Then God made the world.
He split the Adam and made Eve. Adam and Eve were naked, but they weren’t embarrassed because mirrors hadn’t been invented yet.
Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating one bad apple, so they were driven from the Garden of Eden … Not sure what they were driven in though, because they didn’t have cars.
Adam and Eve had a son, Cain, who hated his brother as long as he was Abel. Pretty soon all of the early people died off, except for Methuselah, who lived to be like a million or something.
One of the next important people was Noah, who was a good guy, but one of his kids was kind of a Ham. Noah built a large boat and put his family and some animals on it. He asked some other people to join him, but they said they would have to take a rain check.
After Noah came Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jacob was more famous than his brother, Esau, because Esau sold Jacob his birthmark in exchange for some pot roast. Jacob had a son named Joseph who wore a really loud sports coat.
Another important Bible guy is Moses, whose real name was Charlton Heston. Moses led the Israel Lights out of Egypt and away from the evil Pharaoh after God sent ten plagues on Pharaoh’s people. These plagues included frogs, mice, lice, bowels, and no cable.
God fed the Israel Lights every day with manicotti. Then he gave them His Top Ten Commandments. These include: don’t lie, cheat, smoke, dance, or covet your neighbor’s stuff.
Oh, yeah, I just thought of one more: Humor thy father and thy mother.
One of Moses’ best helpers was Joshua who was the first Bible guy to use spies. Joshua fought the battle of Geritol and the fence fell over on the town.
After Joshua came David. He got to be king by killing a giant with a slingshot. He had a son named Solomon who had about 300 wives and 500 porcupines. My teacher says he was wise, but that doesn’t sound very wise to me.
After Solomon there were a bunch of major league prophets. One of these was Jonah, who was swallowed by a big whale and then barfed up on the shore.
There were also some minor league prophets, but I guess we don’t have to worry about them.
After the Old Testament came the New Testament. Jesus is the star of The New Testa-ment. He was born in Bethlehem in a barn. (I wish I had been born in a barn too, because my mom is always saying to me, “Close the door! Were you born in a barn?” It would be nice to say, ”As a matter of fact, I was.”)
During His life, Jesus had many arguments with sinners like the Pharisees and the Republicans. Jesus also had twelve opossums. The worst one was Judas Asparagus. Judas was so evil that they named a terrible vegetable after him.
Jesus was a great man. He healed many leopards and even preached to some Germans on the Mount. But the Democrats and all those other bad guys put Jesus on trial before Pontius the Pilot. Pilot didn’t stick up for Jesus. He just washed his hands instead.
Anyways, Jesus died for our sins, then came back to life again. He went up to Heaven but will be back at the end of the Aluminum. His return is foretold in the book of Revolution.
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Normally, Laurie, I hang on your every word; I cannot POSSIBLY imagine how I could have missed that from you, unless you wrote it before I began posting here.
Biblical scholars have no idea when Abraham was born – in researching Abraham, I have found experts guessing dates anywhere from 1750 to 2350 BCE, but none earlier than 2350. Essentially, your theory would call for Moses to have been born a hundred years before his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- grandfather, Abraham, which creates an improbable time paradox, does AIG have an answer for that?
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AIG? I assume we are not talking about insurance, but what are you talking about? I am sure I am going to regret asking, but obviously we are not on the same page
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If you’re teaching your girls about 3,000-year of T Rexes, then yeah, that’s WAY wrong, and when your girls get older and find out the truth, they’re going to lose a lot of faith in everything else you’ve said.
That’s the problem with homeschooling – in your case, you’ve got to LEARN science before you can TEACH science, and though I DO find you to be quite intelligent, you’d have a difficult time passing any High School Science class, and yet you’re cheating your children by not allowing them to take advantage of teachers who know that they’re teaching.
As for evolution, you seem to expect an amphibious reptile to suddenly bare a mammalian bovine, and you’re TEACHING CHILDREN? Life began in the water, yet we now have life on the land – I would expect, for that to happen, some creatures would have to evolve that live most of the time in the water, but have the ability to come out on land. The mud skipper, a fish, for example, can come out on land and feed for long periods at a time, before they have to return to the water. There are many fish, such as Betas, who breathe both through their gills, and by holding air, taken from the surface, in a special labyrinth that exists in their heads. And these are modern fish – who knows how many variety of fish that may have evolved, millions of years ago, that would have enabled them to move from the water to the land, fish whose bodies may simply never have been fossilized?
Please send your children to school, where they can get a REAL education.
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Ignore my last comment, I am tracking.
Arch, have you not realized yet, that I disagree with most biblical scholars about most everything? Not saying I am right, and everybody else is wrong. Really, I’m not. My ideas and beliefs have changed in the most dramatic way in the last 10 years, and I am sure the more I study the more things will change. But I don’t read the scriptures with a presupposed idea that transposes itself onto every page, like I did when I was a christian.
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If I was there, I would kick you! Do some research Arch. A dinosaur with live tissue is not 65 million years old, as science will tell you
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Have you researched the fossil record Arch? Where do you suppose these huge mass graves came from? And how did mammals from plains, and forests and all sorts of other places, along with fish and sharks end up together? That’s kind of weird?
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AIG = “Answers In Genesis,” you seem not to be familiar with it, but I notice that many of the things you say are amazingly parallel to what one would find on that website.
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I guess not, I thought it was just me with whom you disagreed so strenuously – the only biblical scholars I ever see you disagreeing with, are ones who say the Bible didn’t happen the way its authors say it did.
OK, I can accept that, and maybe back off and take more of a “wait and see” approach before pre-judging you, but with all due respect, I will say that your beliefs seem to be all over the place, making it really hard to figure out exactly WHAT you believe —
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Already, I miss the love! Show me a 3,000-year old T-Rex —
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I can hardly respond to a paragraph containing no real information – give me a link that will lead to some evidence, and I may have something to use for a response.
I strongly suspect that researching the fossil record means something drastically different for you, than for me.
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“AIG ” yes Arch, I figured that out with the cool little Google box on my phone, which is why I said to disregard my previous comment
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“disregard my previous comment” sometimes covers so much territory, I wasn’t sure which one you meant.
Sure would like a link to that 3,000-year old T-Rex.
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Actually, Laurie, I’m still waiting for your response to my statement that you’re placing Moses nearly a thousand years earlier than all biblical scholars place Abraham.
And I’ve still gotten no response to my comment about the writing of the OT.
I notice that if you have no contrary evidence, you tend to change the subject. Have you noticed that?
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You have lost your mind. Did I not tell you that I rarely agree with so called scholars. And what statement about the OT? Maybe I missed it, small screen you know. As for the link, I know I have said this already, but I am not smart enough to figure out how to do that on my cell phone. Don’t you know how to use your search engine?
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This (below), Laurie – did you forget so quickly? Plus you were going to send me a link involving fictitious Noah’s “found” ark. And the 3000-year old T-Rex. Sure, I have Google, but I’m not crazy enough to go hunting a 3000-year old T-Rex, if you say there’s evidence for it, let’s see it.
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