Not long ago, fellow blogger John Zande wrote an excellent post titled “Jesus Christ: Just Not Worth a Sheet of Paper.” It’s actually not as derogatory as the title suggests. Some apologists have suggested that the reason we have no contemporary accounts of Jesus’ life is that paper was so expensive. That’s the argument John deals with in his post.
His post is great — you should read it. But what I actually want to write about is one of the comments that someone left on it. Diana of NarrowWayApologetics.com left a lengthy comment that I decided to include here in its entirety. I identified with it a bit. It reminded me of some of the thoughts I used to have as a Christian:
One of the main reasons people believed Paul was because he explained the reason for Jesus coming into the world. His teachings were amazing. They explained how Jesus “fulfilled the law and the prophets.” I wrote this comment in response to John Zande’s comment on my blog last night. Forgive me for posting it here. Just ignore if you don’t want to read it.
“This passage about Jesus fulfilling the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17-20) is one of the main reasons I believe the Gospel message. The incredible ways that Jesus did this are beyond human ability to create. I don’t think any mystery writer could have weaved together the incredible ways Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets.
I know this post is long, so if you want to skip the parts between the dotted lines, I understand. I just wrote it for anyone who might be interested.
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First of all, there are many ways Jesus fulfilled the law. In fact, believers are constantly astounded by how intricately Jesus fulfilled the law.One way he fulfilled the law was by fulfilling the Sabbath. The Sabbath was the seventh day of rest that the Jews were commanded to obey. Jesus fulfilled the law of the Sabbath by becoming our rest for us. (Hebrews 4:9-11) He said his burden was light and his yoke was easy. Christians no longer practice the Sabbath. They worship on Sunday, rather than Saturday. They enter into his rest and no longer do religious works for salvation. (They are saved by grace through faith.)
Jesus fulfilled the law when he became the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. His death on the cross was similar to the Exodus story, which described the lamb, whose blood would be placed on the doorposts of the home, causing the death angel to pass over that home. (Hebrews 9)
Jesus fulfilled the law when he became the unleavened bread of the Exodus story. Leaven is a symbol of sin and false teaching (1 Cor. 5:6-8, Matt. 16:12). Jesus fulfilled this feast by being sinless and being the TRUTH.
Another way that Jesus fulfilled the law was by becoming a tithe (firstfruits) for us. (Leviticus 23:10) He fulfilled the tithe by becoming the firstfruits from the dead when he was resurrected. (1 Cor. 15:20) Christians are no longer bound by a tithe, instead we are told to be cheerful givers. We are also promised that there will be a resurrection for us because of what Christ did for us.
Jesus fulfilled the law when he became a light to the Gentiles. In the law of Moses, the people were commanded to leave behind the gleanings (or leftovers) of the harvest for the poor and aliens. (Lev. 23:22) This would be fulfilled at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came down and the gospel was preached in all languages, offering salvation to all, not just the Jews. (Acts 10:34-35)
These fulfillments of the law were actually the first 4 feasts that would be celebrated every year by the Jews. They would be celebrated according to the seasons. The feasts celebrated during the early rains were the fulfilled at the time of the early church. Three more feasts are waiting to be fulfilled at the end of the age (or at the time of the latter rains). These three feasts are the feast of trumpets (representing the return of Jesus), the feast day of atonement (representing the salvation of the Jews), and the feast of tabernacles (representing the time when we will all be with the Lord).
There are so many other ways in which Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets. And none of it has to do with Jesus expecting or commanding Christians to obey the law to perfection. It has to do with how it’s impossible for anyone to keep the law. That is why Jesus came. How could any human conceive of a way to have even a made-up, fictional character fulfill all these things? And I’ve barely scratched the surface of the way Jesus accomplished these things.
The greatest concern I feel burdened about is how to convey the magnificence of what I’m trying to explain. He was the manna from heaven. He was the living water. He was the high priest in the order of Melchizedek. He is the “I AM.” He is the Word become flesh. He became a slave for us. (Philippians 2:7) He became a curse for us. He became sin for us, so we could become righteous before God. He offers us mercy because his blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat. All of this is explained in the scriptures.
I haven’t even begun to explain the way Jesus fulfilled the prophets.
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The story of Jewish history and the giving of the law is actually a way to PROVE the reality of God’s plan for the salvation of humanity through Jesus Christ. One random fact doesn’t prove anything, but the cumulative effect of ALL the fulfillments makes the Bible a miraculous book. This is why some of the brightest and best minds in the history of the world have loved and received Jesus. It isn’t a decision based on emotion alone, but a decision based on knowledge. And the more I learn, the more I am in awe of what God did and how he accomplished it.”
To say that the story of Jesus was just created by pasting together myths, fictional narratives, sayings, and borrowed phrases (as Ken Humphreys does) is a ridiculous claim because only a Christ could have conceived of a Christ. Who could have created the amazing Jesus portrayed in the Gospels and explained further by Paul?
Of course, I now see that there are several problems with this line of thinking. In 2015, Star Wars Episode 7 is supposed to hit theaters. Will it shock anyone if the movie syncs up perfectly with the previous 6? The thing is, when there is already an established back story, it’s not impossible to construct a narrative that builds upon it. The fact that we as readers see the parallels between the stories of Jesus and events in the Old Testament is not an accident. The authors intended for us to see those parallels, and there’s no reason why they couldn’t have invented them — even if Jesus was a real person.
Matthew is one of the best books to look to for evidence of this. Matthew is the only book that tells of Jesus’ family fleeing to Egypt to escape Herod’s infanticide. Both events, fleeing to Egypt and the infanticide, seem to be inspired by Matthew’s reading of the Old Testament. Hosea 11:1 says, “out of Egypt, I called my son.” Matthew says that this prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus’ family returned after fleeing to Egypt. But when you read the entire chapter of Hosea 11, it’s very evident that the passage has nothing to do with the Messiah, but is simply talking about Israel’s period of captivity in Egypt.
Matthew also claims that Herod’s slaughter of infants in Bethlehem was to fulfill this prophecy:
A voice is heard in Ramah,
lamentation and bitter weeping.
Rachel is weeping for her children;
she refuses to be comforted for her children,
because they are no more.
But once again, when we read all of Jeremiah 31, this was no prophecy at all. The chapter is talking about Israel’s captivity in Assyria. Nothing else.
The author of Matthew took these passages and used them to add parallels to the story about Jesus’ birth. It didn’t require magic or divine inspiration to do that — it only took knowledge of these passages. Just like the people working on Star Wars 7 don’t need divine intervention to let them know about Darth Vader.
Diana ends her comment by asking who could have created such a compelling story. Who could have created Christ? But why couldn’t we ask this about anyone? Who could have created Darth Vader? He’s quite a compelling character himself. Who could have created someone as magnificent as Santa Claus? Or Paul Bunyan? Or Achilles? Or King Arthur? Just asking this question doesn’t really mean anything. If Jesus never existed, then someone did just create his story. Or if he was a real person, but not divine, then his story was embellished. We have to draw our conclusions about Jesus based on the evidence, including the fact that Matthew seemed to feel the need to create “prophecies” to give Jesus credibility.
Finding Truth 
Ahhh, you didn’t know they found the ark? What about the red sea crossing, or Sodom and Gomorrah? It is weird that all cultures seem to share really similar stories isn’t it??? Ha ha ha, sucker! Just kidding! It makes perfect sense really(to me) . Nimrod, Seminarians, and Tammuz were the beginning of paganism, and when the languages were confounded each group had a similar story that evolved with that group. Just my take on it. There is a lot of evidence for the flood, if your not trying to disprove it
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Oh, no. You surely do not believe in the Red Sea crossing. (Moses, and the Exodus) Please say it aint true?
If you are merely having a bit of fun then super. But if you believe any of this crap then …well yes, you have the cap therefore it must fit.
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@Laurie – far be it from me to call you “myopic,” just because your comment was addressed to Nate, who, to the best of my knowledge has said nothing to you. Ark said something about the NT, and I, about Noah’s barge, so I’m not really clear which of the two of us you’re actually chastising. Perhaps if you’d clarify, one of us could stay for the thrashing, while the other skipped merrily off – I’m rather good at skipping —
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Huh? I honestly don’t know what you are referring to. Ark called me names… Boo hoo:'( and I didn’t say any thing about Nate 🙂
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If by that, Laurie, you mean that there’s plenty of evidence that Noah’s flood story of 2300 BCE was “borrowed” from the real, tri-county flood in Mesopotamia, I would agree. You DO realize of course, that Mesopotamia is modern Iraq, and just a short missile’s flight to Egypt, where archaeologists have uncovered 3000 years worth of tombs, not one trace of flood sediment has ever been found.
The Southern end of the Dead Sea, home of the legendary cities of Sodom and Gomorroah, is located on the same geological fault line that created the Great Rift valley of Africa – I wish I could load pictures onto this format, I’d show you a map. The area in Palestine is also rich in bitumen, which Egyptians once gathered, to be used in embalming. Bitumen is a black, pliable tar-like substance I could best describe as oil on its way to becoming coal – it is quite flammable, and when blown out of the ground by hot, flaming, natural gas, released by an 8.0 earthquake, could certainly leave the impression of brimstone hail.
As for the Red Sea crossing, you don’t want to get me started.
BTW – I DO hope you’re not basing any of your opinions on the “work” of the late Ron Wyatt —
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Ark,
So I believe in the flood and the red sea crossing. If there is evidence for it, and you are against it because you don’t think God is real, how is it that I am the one who is narrow minded? If you really knew what I believed, I have a hard time thinking you could accuse me of being myopic. What’s the old saying, pot calling the kettle black
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Arch,
I suppose we could go round and round about this, but because I do not believe in the theory of evolution , we probably won’t get very far. Plus my computer crashed and I am typing on my cell phone
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@ Laurie
I really am not sure whether you are yanking everyones chain here.
There is no evidence for the Red Sea crossing. No evidence for Moses, the Exodus, the slavery in Egypt, the sojourn in the Sinai, the Invasion and conquest/genocidal campaign of Canaan,
It is all fiction.
If you are unaware of archaeologists such as Israel Finkelstein and Zee’v Herzog, to name but two, then I can always supply you with links?
Please, only fundamental nitwits believe this stuff, And Arch is right in asking you about Ron Wyatt.
I hope to goodness you are not a follower of this numbskull?
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No I am not a follower of Ron Wyatt. I also am not a follower of Darwin, but I wouldn’t claim all his finds were incorrect.
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Laurie,
I think Ark and Arch both are making some valid points here. Just to grab a couple for now:
I thought Ark was spot on when he said that it’s possible there was some preacher guy (and ok, I’ll even agree that he very likely was smelly by my standards 😉 ) who is at the core of the stories in the New Testament. I would even go further to say it’s very likely (although I haven’t really read enough to say exactly how likely – but I’ve given some comparison points in my previous comment). But Ark also has a good point when he says that the writings about him are narrative construct. For me I think that there are some things written that are reliable, but my understanding is that the scholarly consensus is that the gospels contain embellishment about his life – there just isn’t consensus about how much. I’ve even heard Mike Licona (a “Chicago inerrantist” apologist) admit that John changed the date of the crucifixion for theological reasons! And then there seems to be consensus that the birth narratives are legendary stories (I think I’ve even seen Uncle E agree to this). This really is just a start on what is debated on legendary development. How in the world am I supposed to trust that guys who wrote these kinds of things can be trusted with the truth about morality and how to be right with disembodied conscious beings (if I could even get to the point where I think them likely to exist)?
And Arch’s stuff about the Canaanite conquests being found to be fictional – there is some embarrassing stuff there too. And I don’t say these things because I want there to be no God, I’m just stating what I understand as the conclusions of current research.
And frankly on the Canaanite conquests anyway, please re-read I Samuel 15:3 and don’t skip over the “children and infants” part. I’m gonna be quite frank here – by the standards that you judge Paul to be a ravenous wolf, the writer of that stuff could very well be declared the same. I want to respect Nate’s blog by declining to use the words that I think properly describe writings like this. 🙂
In fact given the legendary embellishment alone we could declare all the writers ravenous wolves.
But I agree with Arch – I just see these things as writings by imperfect ancient humans who were affected by the culture of their day – it isn’t surprising what they wrote given the kind of culture they lived in.
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Yes I agree that if you were to speak to the average Christian and show them all the supposed errors in the new testament, they would probably be dumbfounded. But if you can understand the writings from a Jewish perspective, and you study the original text (even if you don’t) a lot of these issues will disappear. The problem is, we have a bunch of pastors preachers bishop’s and so forth, who are not educated and just regurgitate exactly what they hear. This is why people think Messiah was crucified on a Friday, and born on Christmas.
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Never mind, Laurie, I see what happened – each comment, as they arrive in my email, all say, “in response to Nate:” – I hadn’t noticed that before, and thought that you thought that you were responding to Nate. It’s been a long day, quit pickin’ on me —
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@Laurie – RE: “Plus my computer crashed.” – your god did it to get you to quit arguing with me, because it knows I’m right!
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And as for the ravenous wolf, Genesis 49 says it is someone from the tribe of Benjamin and they would kill the prey in the morning and divide spoil in the afternoon. Paul killed the Christians in the beginning and then he divided. He is the cause for the 40,000 different denominations we have today. He says one thing here and another there, and all it has done is divide
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You are funny! Thanks for the laugh 😉
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I just found it ironic, that all of the events she itemized just happened to be ones that Wyatt claimed to have investigated, except for his last “discovery,” the ark of the covenant, in a cave, beneath Golgotha Hill, and somehow some of Christ’s blood dripped down through a crack in the rocks, and onto the ark. Despite such a monumental discovery, the bloody ark hasn’t been seen by anyone but the late Wyatt and his helpers, who aren’t talking. The blood, if ever analyzed, should technically contain only XX chromosomes.
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Wait just a minute there arch. Wyatt did not discover the ark, and I believe the red sea crossing had been verified
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Laurie,
Doesn’t look like we’ll agree on too much… so instead I’m curious to learn what group or denomination believes the stuff that you do. I’ve found others on the internet describing the same things you do about Paul and such. Are you guys just a bunch of disbanded people who agree with each other or is there an organized group who hold to similar things you believe?
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No group, at least not one that I have found. I attend a synagogue, because I believe in Torah, and they gather on Shabbat.
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No, of course he didn’t discover the ark, there never was one, and to the best of my knowledge, the Red Sea crossing has never been verified, and neither has Moses, nor 40 years in the Sinai without leaving as much as a Spam can.
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You ARE aware of the four different groups whose works were combined to compose the Torah, after 950 BCE, I presume —
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I meant Noahs ark. And no, I am not sure who you think wrote the Torah?
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That’s because they didn’t eat spam Arch! They ate manna;-)
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RE: “I meant Noahs ark. – So did I
The Yahwist (J) Source: J describes a Human-like god throughout, and has a special interest in the territory of the Kingdom of Judah and individuals connected with its history. J is said to have an extremely eloquent style, and was composed c. 950 BCE, in the Southern Kingdom of Judea, and later incorporated into the Torah, c. 400 BCE.
The Elohist (E) Source: It is believed that the E Source was composed in Northern Kingdom of Israel (Ephraim) c. 850 BCE, combined with the J Source by an anonymous scribe or scholar, to form “JE” about 750 BCE, and finally incorporated into the Torah c. 400 BCE. The Elohist Source was so called because throughout, it refers to the Bible’s god as, Elohim, meaning, “god,” as opposed to “Yaweh” or “Jehova.” When J and E each recounted a single story, the Redactor included both, sometimes interweaving them.
The Deuteronomic (D) Code is the name given by academics to the law code within the Book of Deuteronomy, except for the portion discussing the Ethical Decalogue, which is usually treated separately. Deuteronomy is not the work of Moses, as was the traditionally held opinion, it was, in its main parts, written in the seventh century BCE (year 800+), during the reign of Josiah, by the authors of the Deuteronomic (D) Source.
The Priestly (P) Source: The P, thought to have been created after the fall of the Northern Kingdom of biblical Israel in 722 BCE, essentially takes an Orwellian approach to the Yahwist text and rewrites (or deletes entirely) vast sections that state or imply that man can have a personal relationship with the biblical god without intercession by a priest. Some stories were thought to be created entirely from scratch by the authors of the Priestly (P) Source.
THE FINAL REDACTION (except for the one where the Hebrew was translated into Greek, and the one where the Hebrew and Greek were translated into Latin, and the one where the Latin was translated into English –) took place approximately 400 BCE. After the Babylonian exile, a priest or priests redacted JE with the Deuteronomic Source, plus other material, including the Priestly Source, to complete the Torah.
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They did find Noahs ark, and where did you get your information from? Link?
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