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Kathy Part 4

Nate

I may live to regret this, but I’ve decided to extend this never-ending conversation once again.

Kathy, this time, it would be a nice change of pace if you would actually address what William has repeatedly been saying to you:

I have. Not saying i’m perfect at it or that I’m right, but the “evidences” you listed arent real evidences. And since you refuse to look at things that are counter to your current beliefs, how can you honestly speak to me about evidences?

here’s all I’ve seen you provide:

1) martyrs, even though every religion and many non-religions have them.

2) our very existence – which no one knows how that started, but even if you must land on god(s), you must go back to that book of claims to get to jesus.

3) there were miracles, but as it turns out, those dont happen today, and end up being more claims by the same men who claim they speak for god.

4) the fulfilled prophecies we’ve discussed weren’t really prophecies at all, or had to be viewed so figuratively that it’s difficult to show anything precise about them other than location (maybe) in order to claim they’re actually fulfilled.

5) 40 authors taking 1500 years to write the bible. But there’s nothing miraculous about men writing books, editing books, and being inspired to write a book or letter after reading an older book.

About that last point, if the Bible had been written by 1500 people scattered across the globe, who didn’t know one another, and they did it in 40 days, then you’d really have something incredible. But 40-ish people, all familiar with the Jewish god, and writing over a long period of time with the previous writings as reference, is not that impressive.

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1,038 thoughts on “Kathy Part 4”

  2. Kathy,

    Take some time to study the feasts in depth, and you will understand. There are spring feasts and fall feasts, and the fall feasts have yet to be fulfilled. Although Passover has been fulfilled, Yom Kippur has yet to happen. This will take place when mashiach comes again.

    Hosea 6:3 supports the two comings of mashiach, and prior to Paul’s anti law writings, Jews believed in two comings as well. But because “Jesus” is associated with Paul, and therefore must have done away with the law, Jews won’t readily admit that. Now their main argument is that he didn’t fulfill the role of mashiach.

    Here are a few verses to get you started

    Isaiah 4,11, 42, 51-53
    Jeremiah 23, 33
    Zechariah 3, 6,
    Ezekiel 34, 40-46

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  3. Laurie, thanks for the passages.. but I’m not clear on what I’m searching for. I don’t understand what you mean that the fall feasts have yet to be fulfilled.. etc etc. I’m not familiar at all with much of what you are saying or the words you are using. I haven’t studied in depth like everyone else here. And I just want to point out that I don’t believe God would make all of this
    so complicated. Jesus simplified it all perfectly.

    Also I was hoping you could answer this..

    ” And, why did Jesus die on the cross if we still have to atone for our sins?”

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  4. Hi Portal.. I hate to disappoint you but I will never never NEVER take a break from typing “liberals”.. 🙂

    Liberals are the tools that satan uses to accomplish his goal. I won’t ever stop pointing out how destructive liberalism is and how destructive pride is to the liberal.

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  5. Kathy, there is NO SUCH THING as ‘the debbil’ – that’s a made-up concept for people who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Furthermore, anyone who tells such things to children ought to be realize it’s emotional abuse.

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  6. I see I made a slip there. I wanted to finish that sentence, “. .anyone who tells such things to children ought to be . . . (fill in the blank yourself, but I can think of a few nasty consequences myself). I’m sure you get my drift.

    I mean it sincerely. Kathy, there is no such being – it’s in your fevered, fundamentalist imagination.

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  7. “And, why did Jesus die on the cross if we still have to atone for our sins?”

    Because of BS concocted by Bronze Age witch doctors, to explain natural phenomena they didn’t understand.

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  8. “So are you saying that you think God sent a false prophet into His own scriptures? Are not scriptures meant to be instructions on how to obey God? How does this make sense to you?”

    Portal, I think my question would have to be, why would a superior being play such stupid games with the collective fates of heaven or hell hanging in the balance, and why would anyone feel compelled to worship such a nimrod, unless out of fear? And what kind of superior entity would get off on that kind of worship?

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  10. “I won’t ever stop pointing out how destructive liberalism is and how destructive pride is to the liberal.”

    You sound rather proud of that —

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  11. Never denied this. I deny that the evidence Mormons have is nothing by comparison to what the Bible has. Again, William, it really shouldn’t be that complicated, just list THE evidence, don’t tell me it’s not “good” evidence or that I’m using “evidence” “liberally”.. these are excuses.” – kathy

    You dont deny that all you’ve presented as evidence are the 5 things I’ve been listing and that appear at the write up starting this thread?

    and you’re telling me to provide such “evidence” for Mormons?

    check out this website for mormon apologetics: http://www.shields-research.org/

    and http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Martyrs

    and

    http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_prophecies.shtml

    it’s important for you to remember though, that I dont find any compelling evidence for your religion or any other, so if you’re claiming that yours has compelling evidence, you should maybe share it, instead of asking me to show where mormons have bad evidence.

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  12. “And that’s precisely the liberal’s problem.. lack of objectivity. What I SAID and what you heard due to your prejudging/bias and lack of objectivity are two entirely different things. I can’t help any of you until you learn how to apply honest objectivity.” – kathy

    So kathy, just to be clear, you DONT think the gospels were written by first hand eye-witnesses?

    I had thought that you had said they were earlier as well, but like the others, I have no intention of going back through this many posts to cut and paste – if you can clarify now, this would be enough for me.

    thanks

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  13. Kathy,
    There is no short answer to your question, I wish there was. You believe that Yahusha was the lamb of God, but you don’t understand what that means? The feasts are the complete story of redemption. When messiah was here the first time he fulfilled the spring feasts, Passover, unleavened bread, first fruits, and Pentecost. The fall feasts have not been fulfilled yet, which includes the day of atonement.

    I have a really busy day today, and won’t be around, but I’ll be back tomorrow.

    Portal,

    I’ll try to answer your question tonight, sorry for the delay.

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  14. I’m sure that it may surprise some to hear me say this, but I’m glad that Laurie has joined us – she brings a new perspective to the table that, to the best of my knowledge, we’ve not dealt with before. I’m always up for learning new things, even things I may not agree with – that’s what being OPEN-MINDED and OBJECTIVE is all about.

    Plus she tolerates a fair amount of my “jackassery,” so she couldn’t be ALL bad —

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  15. one possibility that no one has touched on yet, with the exception of the history channel, is that there is a high (or no) possibility that the bible is a result of ancient people’s interactions with extra terrestrials.

    could jesus have been the offspring of an extra terrestrial and human crossbreeding? it’s the obvious (or most ridiculous) explanation.

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  20. One thing has always seemed odd to me – and that is that god and jesus are all knowing and all powerful.

    Matt 24:36 shows that even Jesus doesn’t know all that god (the father) knows… so then how is jesus every bit the same as god? How is jesus all knowing when he admits to not knowing all?

    and god himself seems bound by time. Take the flood for example. If god regretting making man, then why not simply make it to where he never made them? why kill them if he’s all powerful? I think it’s because if god is real, he cannot overturn time. Once he’s done something it’s done, it’s in the past. Once he lights a candle, then he has lit it. He can blow out the candle so to speak, but he, like us, is incapable of making it to where he never lit the candle in the first place.

    As long as there is a past and present and future, then there is time. And if you are incapable of existing without those, without time, then you are powerless against it.

    If there must be an intelligent designer, who then designed time that confines even god?

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  21. “so then how is jesus every bit the same as god?”

    Think about it William, have you ever seen them both in the same room at the same time –? I THOUGHT not! THAT oughta tell you something!

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  22. Great thoughts, William…

    Kathy,
    You believe the Mosaic law is still in effect, yet you don’t know when the Sabbath is? Like Portal said, it’s Saturday, not Sunday.

    I also think you’re mistaken about what the Sabbath’s restrictions are. Jesus wasn’t saying it was totally cool to work on the Sabbath — he was saying that just as there were provisions in the law for emergencies (like a donkey falling into a ditch), then his healing someone is on that same level. Work is not. Therefore, if you believe you should “keep the Sabbath holy” then you’d better find a job that won’t make you work on Saturday. Also don’t try to do yard work. Or cook. Or go buy groceries. Or travel.

    Portal,
    Christians worship on Sunday, because the NT teaches that they assembled on the first day of the week (as opposed to the Sabbath being the last day). And Paul teaches in Galatians and Hebrews that the old law has been done away with — Christians aren’t bound by it anymore.

    Of course, folks like Laurie believe that Paul was a false teacher. And folks like Kathy apparently don’t realize that Paul was saying the 10 commandments (and all the others) have served their purpose and are no longer necessary.

    In other words, Christianity is just another one of those “choose your own adventure” religions. Everybody points to the same text but thinks it says something different.

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  24. “I think it’s because if god is real, he cannot overturn time. Once he’s done something it’s done, it’s in the past.”

    How do you know you haven’t said that before?

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  25. And Kathy, do you really think that “God inspires them sometimes, but lets them make mistakes at other times” is honestly the most logical explanation?

    More and more, it’s clear that you’ve accepted your conclusion and are just bending the evidence to suit. Not a good way to find truth…

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