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Kathy Part 4

Nate

I may live to regret this, but I’ve decided to extend this never-ending conversation once again.

Kathy, this time, it would be a nice change of pace if you would actually address what William has repeatedly been saying to you:

I have. Not saying i’m perfect at it or that I’m right, but the “evidences” you listed arent real evidences. And since you refuse to look at things that are counter to your current beliefs, how can you honestly speak to me about evidences?

here’s all I’ve seen you provide:

1) martyrs, even though every religion and many non-religions have them.

2) our very existence – which no one knows how that started, but even if you must land on god(s), you must go back to that book of claims to get to jesus.

3) there were miracles, but as it turns out, those dont happen today, and end up being more claims by the same men who claim they speak for god.

4) the fulfilled prophecies we’ve discussed weren’t really prophecies at all, or had to be viewed so figuratively that it’s difficult to show anything precise about them other than location (maybe) in order to claim they’re actually fulfilled.

5) 40 authors taking 1500 years to write the bible. But there’s nothing miraculous about men writing books, editing books, and being inspired to write a book or letter after reading an older book.

About that last point, if the Bible had been written by 1500 people scattered across the globe, who didn’t know one another, and they did it in 40 days, then you’d really have something incredible. But 40-ish people, all familiar with the Jewish god, and writing over a long period of time with the previous writings as reference, is not that impressive.

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Published by Nate

1,038 thoughts on “Kathy Part 4”

  1. “Are you writing a book, or did I misunderstand?” – No, you didn’t; yes, I am. A couple, in fact.

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  2. So sorry about your head, Laurie. Sounds painful!

    The book isn’t very long. Less than 200 pages. Several people have said they read it in one sitting.

    This is the problem with any beliefs … from Christian teachings…they don’t make sense …

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  3. The symbolism doesn’t make sense? One minute you say you understand, and the next minute your bible doesn’t make sense.

    Either you understand why Yahusha was called the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world or you don’t.

    You are using this to avoid the subject at hand. Go ask you pastor why he was called the lamb. Then ask him why the lamb has seven eyes in the Revelation. Yes, it’s symbolic.

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  4. It didn’t take so long to get an answer, you got four answers the day you posted the question.

    Thanks Nan, I’m doing good though. I live 45 minutes from town and it bled a lot, so it was pretty scaring for my 2 girls, but it could have been a lot worse! I feel blessed!

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  6. Hey guys, old friend and church mate of Nate’s.

    I can’t tell you how much I have enjoyed this particular post and its comments, I just got done reading all of them.

    Nate by far within these comments I think you have the best objections to Christianity laid out. Especially the posts about authorship of various OT books, I particularly enjoyed those.

    I will say I’m disappointed you have someone with a third grade level understanding of Christianity defending the faith. Kathy you seem like a nice enough person but really lack basic understanding, you have atheist explaining things to you that you should already have a firm grasp on.

    Also Laurie, thank you so much for sharing your views, I find them very interesting. I assume you are a Messianic Jew? If not would you mind sharing what denomination or faith group you identify with?

    Looking forward to keeping up with this series, its been too long since I’ve checked in.

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  8. Thanks buddy, blown away at how your site has grown, threads with hundreds of comments and thousands of views. That’s nothing to sneeze at!

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  9. Hi Matt,

    I can’t believe you read all these comments (and enjoyed them)! Believe it or not, I joined the discussion to try and back Kathy up. But we obviously can’t agree on even the simplest things, and this is where it lead.

    I am not a messianic Jew, but I do attend a messianic synagogue. I would attend a Jewish synagogue but there isn’t one here in our small town. I believe that Yahusha was the messiah, but I don’t believe in Paul. I guess follow Judaism (with one exception).

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  11. Haha no kidding man! Please give my best to the wife and kids!

    I’ve always enjoyed the meatier topics so this is right up my alley. Laurie thanks so much for answering my question and for your insights during this conversation.

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  13. KC – we have an “oldies but goodies” channel here, that reruns old TV shows, and Gunsmoke comes on at noon. Today, unarmed, on foot, Matt Dillon was in the mountains of Kansas, being chased by 4 hillbilly bad guys. One sees him and gives chase. Dillon runs, but is stopped when he comes to the edge of a cliff – he stops and looks down, and we see, his point of view, the Grand Canyon! Bet you didn’t know it extended all the way into Kansas!

    How did they get away with such things?

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  15. It’s nice of you to say, but a huge scar running right across the middle of my forehead is not the kind of character I really want.

    But it did get me out of all the farm chores today, and the break was kinda nice!

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  16. “God sent Jesus to suffer and die on the cross.. for symbolism? I’m sorry but this doesn’t make sense..”

    See, once again, Kathy, you demonstrate that you merely echo what you’re told, rather than actually knowing anything about the religion you base your life on.

    Why do you think the Gospel writers had to concoct the fiction about a census that took Joseph to Bethlehem? Because there is a Migdol outside Bethlehem, a place where sacrificial lambs are born in a room kept spotless, then, to protect the newly-born lambchops, until they got enough strength in their legs to walk without falling and injuring themselves (sacrificial lambs had to be perfect, without blemish), they were wrapped in swaddling clothes and placed in a manger – sound familiar? So why do you suppose the Bethlehem census was concocted? Symbolism.

    Why do you think the thieves’ legs were broken, but JC’s weren’t? The perfect, unblemished lamb – once again, symbolism.

    Get your nose out of the Bible, for cryin’ out loud, and actually READ something!

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  18. “Do I need to ask what these books are about arch?”

    One, as you might have guessed, debunks the Bible. I was trying it out on my website, literally writing it online before transferring it to text files. In it, I contend that in the beginning, Man created god, in His own image.

    The second involves my oldest daughter, who suffered from BiPolar Disorder, and who committed suicide, leaving behind a note, the first line of which will become the title of my book: “I Am Broken and I Cannot Be Fixed”.

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  20. Kathy,

    The “migdal eder” means tower of the flock. This was the tower that Shepard used to watch the flock that would eventually be used for the sacrifices. It is mentioned in the Mishna, and also in the book of Micah. The Jews believed that the messiah would be revealed from here. Interesting huh! The symbolism is beautiful, whether your a Jew or a Christian.

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  22. “Do you plan to finish and publish both?”

    If at all possible. I’ve kinda stalled out for the past couple of years.

    You wouldn’t believe how many people with whom you’re familiar, have suffered from BiPolar Disorder:
    Italian sculptor/painter Michelangelo, Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Lord Byron, the poet Rimbaud, French philosopher Rousseau, German writer Goethe, composers Chopin, Wagner, Tchaikovsky, Schubert, Beethoven, Rossini, Mozart, Schumann, Franz List, Mussorgsky, and Aaron Copeland; playwright Anton Chekov, Russian author Tolstoy, Sir Issac Newton, Charles Dickens, Vincent Van Gogh, writer Samuel Johnson, Jonathan Swift, Elizabeth Barrett Browning, Russian writer Maxim Gorky, Italian poet Torquato Tasso, Gauguin, American philosopher William James, German writer Heinrich von Kleist, Nathaniel Hawthorne, German writer Heinrich von Kleist, French poet Rimbaud, Italian painters Paolo Uccello and Carlo Dolci, English poets Shelley and Keats, French mathematician Lagrange, painter Pablo Picasso, American painter Raphael Soyer, novelist I. B. Singer, Italian painter Annibale Carracci, Russian poet Pushkin, American novelist Thomas Wolfe, Spanish painter Goya, American poet Robert Lowell, Russian writer Lermontov, Italian painter Caravaggio, French mathematician Galois, Dutch painter Pieter Muller, Italian artist Cellini, Flemish painter Rubens, French novelist Balzac, Thomas Edison, English scientist Robert Hooke, Italian painter Raphael, physicist Robert Oppenheimer (director in charge of the completion of the atomic bomb), English poet William Blake, English poets William Cowper, William Collins and Christopher Smart; German mathematician Georg Cantor, French philosopher Comte de Saint-Simon, German philosopher Neitzsche, French painters Daumier and Utrillo, Norwegian painter Edvard Munch, French philosopher Auguste Comte, French writer Guy de Maupassant, French poet Baudelaire, Italian painter Gagliardi, Welsh poet Dylan Thomas, English writers Oliver Goldsmith and Richard Sheridan, German painter Johann Rottenhammer, Dutch painters Brouwer, Molenaer, deWitte, Hals, Vermeer, as well as Rembrant van Rjin; Russian writer Dostoyevsky, French poet de Musset, English playwright Addison, English poet Swinburne, Dutch painter Jongkind, playwright Eugene O’Neill, German playwrights Schiller and Schlegel, American poet Hart Crane, French writer Gautier, writer Thomas de Quincey, Scottish poet Robert Burns, American writer Edgar Allen Poe, English painter Rossetti, German poet Hein, American writer Lafcadio Hearn, Hungarian poet Lenau, Italian painter Gaspare Celio, French novelist Alexander Dumas, Swedish playwright Strindberg, French poet Verlaine, biographer James Boswell, French writer Chateaubriand, French novelist George Sand, English writer Charles Lamb, Italian painter Francisci Bassano, French novelist Victor Hugo, French painter Degas, American molecular chemist Paul Saltman, Italian painter Carlo Dolci, poet Stephen Spender, novelist George Elliot, American mathematician Morris Kline, Italian writer Vittorio Alfieri, writer Arthur Koestler, English writer Charlotte Bronte, Italian painter Vasari, Scottish inventor James Watt, American writer Nathanial Hawthorne, as well as Howard Hughes, Mao Tse-Tung, Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler and Napoleon.

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  23. Again you all aren’t understanding my point..I’m not dismissing symbolism. I’m challenging the claim that Jesus had to suffer and die for .. again.. symbolism? That’s just not a good enough reason. God would certainly be able to find an easier way in which His Son didn’t have to suffer horrifically. Paul’s explanation is far superior and reasonable than yours. And that’s why his books are included.. his explanations make sense.. and he’s backed up his testimony with his life. He went from killing Christians to becoming one.. and, surprise.. you all have no explanation for that either.. only accusations of him lying. I’m really curious to know why so many dislike Paul.. I doubt I’ll get an honest answer though.

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  24. Laurie – I meant to write Migdal, but somehow merged it with Midol and came up with Migdol – mea culpa —

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  25. “It didn’t take so long to get an answer, you got four answers the day you posted the question.”

    No I didn’t. Please post them if I’m wrong. And now, the “answer” you’ve finally given fails. It doesn’t come close to explaining why Jesus had to suffer and die. What was the necessity for this??

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