I may live to regret this, but I’ve decided to extend this never-ending conversation once again.
Kathy, this time, it would be a nice change of pace if you would actually address what William has repeatedly been saying to you:
I have. Not saying i’m perfect at it or that I’m right, but the “evidences” you listed arent real evidences. And since you refuse to look at things that are counter to your current beliefs, how can you honestly speak to me about evidences?
here’s all I’ve seen you provide:
1) martyrs, even though every religion and many non-religions have them.
2) our very existence – which no one knows how that started, but even if you must land on god(s), you must go back to that book of claims to get to jesus.
3) there were miracles, but as it turns out, those dont happen today, and end up being more claims by the same men who claim they speak for god.
4) the fulfilled prophecies we’ve discussed weren’t really prophecies at all, or had to be viewed so figuratively that it’s difficult to show anything precise about them other than location (maybe) in order to claim they’re actually fulfilled.
5) 40 authors taking 1500 years to write the bible. But there’s nothing miraculous about men writing books, editing books, and being inspired to write a book or letter after reading an older book.
About that last point, if the Bible had been written by 1500 people scattered across the globe, who didn’t know one another, and they did it in 40 days, then you’d really have something incredible. But 40-ish people, all familiar with the Jewish god, and writing over a long period of time with the previous writings as reference, is not that impressive.
Finding Truth 
“Do you resent everyone / thing that has authority over you?” – nope, just those whom I feel are unjust. I’ve spent a lot of time resisting unjust laws —
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Except for the last paragraph, Nate, which DID seem addressed to Laurie, Nate, the first part of your comment kinda, sorta answered Kathy’s question – it was a bit of a mixed message.
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You feel “blackmailed” to do what is right?? The govt. is a “blackmailer” for “threatening” punishment if you harm someone or steal from them?
More liberal “reasoning”.. and evidence for the claim that liberals are morally challenged.
No, I do what is right because it is the right thing to do. There are those for whom the threat of punishment is what drives them not to do wrong. There are still others for whom even the threat of punishment doesn’t deter them from a life of crime.
You’re the one missing the point. The government isn’t requiring love, adoration, or worship under the threat of punishment.
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Do you resent everyone / thing that has authority over you? I’m guessing you do.. and so does Ruth, and Nan and William and every other liberal here.
Kathy, this makes no sense whatsoever. One minute conservatives are accusing liberals of desiring big government and the next minute they’re making this claim. Which is it? If I resented those in authority over me would I want any type of regulation at all? No. This is just an asinine claim.
This is the definition of emotional blackmail:
Emotional blackmail is a form of emotional abuse, which involves the use of emotions and insecurities of the victim to manipulate the victim. It is usually directed at controlling the victim’s behavior and actions. In an emotional blackmail, the blackmailer usually adopts any of the following methods:
a. to threaten to endanger the life;
b. to say that blackmailer will feel depressed or sad if the victim do not do what the blackmailer says;
c. to control the victim by using money;
d. to pressurize by keeping the blackmailers feeling and desires before victim;
e. to threaten to go away from victim or end the relationship with the victim;
f. to make the victim feel guilty;
g. to manipulate the victim in such a way that victim feels compassionate;
h. to threaten to hurt victim or make things difficult for victim;
i. to demoralize the victim;
j. to deprive victim of love, appreciation, care, etc; and
k. to make victim feel that s/he is selfish and inconsiderate.
The God you describe fits most, if not all, of these descriptions. And the fact that you use Divine Command Theory to excuse it tells me you suffer greatly from Stockholm Syndrome.
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I want to rephrase what I just said, Kathy. Fundamentalist believers engage in this emotional blackmail. I don’t believe that God is real so it is not God who is the blackmailer here.
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Kathy,
I find it interesting that rather than responding to the questions that have been asked of you and responding to the responses that I’ve given you from scripture and from Bible study tools you choose to focus on the comment I made about emotional blackmail and make a ridiculous sideshow of it.
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Paul hijacking Christianity, that is a perspective I have never thought or heard of. From a Jewish background I can see that though, very interesting. The amount of knowledge here is extremely impressive folks.
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Bingo Matt!
If Kathy isn’t learning anything, I sure am!! A whole thread of ‘Teach the teacher!’ Love it!
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Yeah, the first part of that comment was addressed to Kathy, but I meant to address the second part to Laurie and forgot.
Nice and confusing 🙂
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One more thing before work this am, what’s with all this liberal vs conservative stuff? I like to label myself as a personally conservative libertarian but don’t see how it matters. Kathy are saying the more liberal you are the more apt to non belief you are predisposition to be? Or do you just think liberals are evil in general?
I hate that you are at odds with the few fellow believers that have commented on all of this.
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I’m finding the information and perspective Laurie is sharing fascinating!
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It’s a great question, Matt, and the rest of us don’t really know the answer either. We asked her about it early on — at one point she said a liberal was someone who didn’t submit to God. We said that’s not how everyone else uses it.
But what do we know? We’re liberals 😉
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I hadn’t had a chance to read all the comments:
Arch, you have my deepest sympathies.
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kathy,
you’re doing everything you can to avoid answering or responding to anything of substance aren’t you?
makes it kind of pointless for anyone to converse with you…
and doesnt it bother you that you have to do that, while at the same time proclaiming yourself victorious and superior (i.e., more objective, honest, etc)?
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“The amount of knowledge here is extremely impressive folks.”
Matt – if you want to fight disease, the first thing you do, is learn a lot about germs.
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“Kathy are saying the more liberal you are the more apt to non belief you are predisposition to be?”
From what I can gather, all Liberals are evil in general, and everyone who doesn’t agree with Kathy is a Liberal. I’ve tried explaining to Kathy that (if he ever existed), Jesus was crucified because of his liberal beliefs. Kathy semi-agrees, but maintains that he would never agree with liberals of today. I couldn’t help wondering how he would agree with Conservatives today. Who would Jesus waterboard?
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“makes it kind of pointless for anyone to converse with you…” – in Kathy’s mind, that’s the key to winning a debate.
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This is my last comment to you until you actually want to discuss what I have posted. Why should I give you “part 2”? You’re right, this is time consuming…. for me!
Matt 23:8 read first
Philemon 1:10
1 Corinthians 4:14-17
1 Corinthians 12:27
2 Timothy 1:11
1 Timothy 2:7
Ephesians 4:11,12
Matt 10:7,8
1 Timothy 5:17,18
1 Corinthians 9:11,12
Matt 18:15
Galatians 2:11-14
Matt 9:10
2 Thessalonians 3:6,7
These are all examples of how Paul contradicts Messiah. Read them and we will discuss. Or don’t, but I will not continue to waste my time with you. If anyone else wants to talk about it, I’ll be around! Have a great day guys! And you as well Kathy, shalom!
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shalom a lake em
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Assalamu alaikum! Peace be upon you! This is actually a phrase that you would most often hear a Muslim use, but spending time in the desert I have used this one quite a bit!
William, can ask how old you are?
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you may ask, yes. but why do you ask? do i act too much like a buffoon? How old do you think i am?
follow the link on my name and shoot me an email for personal questions, please.
I know. I’m an idiot. I’ve spent some time in the arab world, so I realize the correct term, as well as realize what shalom is…
I’m idiot, so you’ll have to forgive me.
I read shalom and it immediately struck me as mildly amusing to mistake it for arabic…
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oh, and walaikum salam
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William, I’m really busy but couldn’t let your comment go – in my opinion, you are a long ways from an idiot. 🙂 Sending positive vibes!
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Carmen, thank you.
I think you’re wise, and now i really hope everyone else thinks so too, as now it helps me on multiple levels.
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“Have a great day guys! And you as well Kathy, shalom!” – Hasta la vista, Baby! (Arnie –)
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