After breaking 1000 comments on the previous thread, I felt it was a good time to start another.
As a reminder, here are some of the most recent outstanding questions for Kathy:
From Laurie:
You said you answered my questions, and wish more questions were asked. Here are some questions that were not addressed.
Matt 23:8 read first
Philemon 1:10
1 Corinthians 4:14-17
1 Corinthians 12:27
2 Timothy 1:11
1 Timothy 2:7
Ephesians 4:11,12Why is it that messiah says not to be called rabbi or father, but Paul it’s not obedient to this command?
Matt 10:7,8
1 Timothy 5:17,18
1 Corinthians 9:11,12Messiah says here that he had given freely, go and freely give. Again, Paul is disobedient.
Matt 18:15
Galatians 2:11-14
Messiah said that if you have a problem with your brother, you should deal with it privately. Here Paul lashes out at Peter “before them all”.
Matt 9:10-12
2 Thessalonians 3:6,7
Yahusha said in the passage above that he came to call the sinner to repentance, not the righteous. Why would Paul want to separate from those that actually need him?
From William:
the “evidences” you listed arent real evidences. And since you refuse to look at things that are counter to your current beliefs, how can you honestly speak to me about evidences?
here’s all I’ve seen you provide:
1) martyrs, even though every religion and many non-religions have them.
2) our very existence – which no one knows how that started, but even if you must land on god(s), you must go back to that book of claims to get to jesus.
3) there were miracles, but as it turns out, those dont happen today, and end up being more claims by the same men who claim they speak for god.
4) the fulfilled prophecies we’ve discussed weren’t really prophecies at all, or had to be viewed so figuratively that it’s difficult to show anything precise about them other than location (maybe) in order to claim they’re actually fulfilled.
5) 40 authors taking 1500 years to write the bible. But there’s nothing miraculous about men writing books, editing books, and being inspired to write a book or letter after reading an older book.
In addition to these, I’d like to ask something of both Kathy and Laurie (Matt or Hayden or portal001 (Ryan) can chime in as well):
The Bible defines God as being all-loving, all-merciful, fair, just, etc. It can also be read as promising an eternity in Hell for those who don’t serve him correctly. As a believer, how do you square those two statements?
Finding Truth 
People who invest in pyramid schemes are desperate, or at the least, greedy (believing they can get in and out before the pyramid collapses) – if your Jesus was really your god, he already had the entire universe, and anything else he needed with the snap of his finger, what could possibly tempt him – there IS no comparison.
The way I see it it’s more likely that those who invest in pyramid schemes are the greedy ones – not necessarily desperate. One must have something to invest, after all. So to that degree I see what Ryan is getting at. It was a get rich quick, instant gratification thing – so to speak – that Jesus was tempted with. But if you know that these things pale in comparison to your father’s “great riches” which you have had and will again have unlimited access to you wouldn’t care about getting rich quick. You already are rich – even if your assets are frozen for a time.
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“Who’s arguing? We’re discussing now.” – yes, but magic? Turn it over to Penn & Teller!
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Arch,
““David Limbaugh was right when he said that it takes more faith to believe in existence as an accident than to believe in a Creator.”
What a stupid statement. The same could be said of a rainbow before Humankind invented the prism. Humans are the animals that find answers.”
Wrong again.. certainly there were lots of ideas about how the rainbow exists, even if the truth wasn’t known.. again, WHAT theory do you have of how to get something from nothing?? You don’t have one.
Not the same thing.. please apply your critical thinking skills.
“BTW, is he any relation to Rush?” yep.. and no doubt whatsoever that’ll be used as an excuse.
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Arch,
““This makes no sense to me..” – very little does. “Money-making tool”? You don’t even know who Thomas Paine was, do you? I said it in the very first thread, and nothing has since changed my mind – doorknob.”
Witnessing someone having to resort to insults is always sad Arch. You give yourself away, you do know that.. right?
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kathy you dont have an answer either as to how your god came from nothing, so what’s your point?
You dont have anything of substance that even dictates that something had to come from nothing.
And again, if you say god had no beginning, then you’re saying that some things dont need a beginning.
so your “answer” is “god” and mine is the “universe.” If you want to pretend that “god” settles it, then lets’ see who can point to their “answer” first.
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I like Penn & Teller!
if your Jesus was really your god, he already had the entire universe, and anything else he needed with the snap of his finger, what could possibly tempt him
This is what I’ve been trying to say. I’ve just been using a lot more words to do it.
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“WHAT theory do you have of how to get something from nothing?? You don’t have one. ” – Don’t need one as long as you don’t believe your god needed a creator.
BTW, Kathy – you’re a political conservative – how do you feel about government entitlements?
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“Witnessing someone having to resort to insults is always sad Arch. You give yourself away, you do know that.. right?”
If I see a yellow banana and call it a green tree, I’ve possibly insulted both the banana and the tree, but if I call it a yellow banana, I’ve insulted no one.
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Nate,
“Kathy, you’re operating under some misconceptions about Thomas Paine and The Age of Reason, which really shows how little you looked into it.”
You’re right, I didn’t look into it at all.. and I gave my reasons why. I had stated that he was probably another person taking advantage of the huge market due to the liberal/ atheist agenda. His name didnt’ register with me as a Founding Father.. especially when you never corrected me about money making motives. Your comment describing who he was and those circumstances would have made a difference if you’d mentioned it in the beginning. Why didn’t you?? I view the book much differently now that I know those specifics.
“You’re right that my statement about Paine being objective because he uses the Bible isn’t exactly right. That’s certainly not the only criteria to use in determining objectivity. What I was trying to say is that Paine does not just use “what if” arguments or refer to sources that you might find questionable. He uses the Bible and compares it with other parts of the Bible. So his source material is something that you believe is beyond reproach. ”
Using the Bible is not criteria at all in determining objectivity.. even when comparing different passages to each other. Bias most certainly can still be present. But I wouldn’t have even asked for an example of objectivity if you’d have given me the background upfront.
Your problem with objectivity is still evidence Nate. You’ve proven that yet again. I feel comfortable now giving Paine’s book a try.. but my confidence in your objectivity is still very low.. you still dont’ get it.
I’d STILL like an answer to my question about which religion has the most evidence to support it’s claimed truth if it’s not Christianity.
And in regards to the book, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for specific examples or pages of the book… something, without me having to read the entire book, that can give me an idea of Paine’s reasoning that is so convincing.
That you refuse to do both of these things only bolsters my belief that you lack objectivity Nate.
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“This is what I’ve been trying to say. I’ve just been using a lot more words to do it.” – a famous writer, whose name escapes me, once wrote a letter to a friend. He closed it with an apology – Sorry this letter is so long, it would have been shorter, but I was in a hurry. It takes more time to be concise, you were in a hurry – yeah, let’s say that —
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Ruth,
“I like Penn & Teller!
if your Jesus was really your god, he already had the entire universe, and anything else he needed with the snap of his finger, what could possibly tempt him
This is what I’ve been trying to say. I’ve just been using a lot more words to do it.”
It just so happens that I’ve crossed paths with Penn on Twitter.
He CAVED.. he was afraid to debate me.. he got offensive before we could
even get started.. he’s a smart guy.. smart enough to know not to debate a Christian.
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@Kathy,
Re: Thomas Paine:
Kathy, you are only digging yourself deeper into a hole commenting about this. Nate very obviously saw no need to describe to you who Thomas Paine was since this is considered generally common knowledge among those educated in the United States.
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It just so happens that I’ve crossed paths with Penn on Twitter.
He CAVED.. he was afraid to debate me.. he got offensive before we could
even get started.. he’s a smart guy.. smart enough to know not to debate a Christian.
OMG! I really haven’t been terribly derogatory toward you, Kathy. He might have been afraid of you but it had nothing to do with your prowess as a debater nor your Christianity. None of us here have been afraid to debate you. He probably just realized that your “style” of debating really isn’t debate at all. It’s assertions with no evidence which does not a debate make.
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William,
“Me: “second, if our very existence means we had a creator, then why doesnt god’s existence mean he had a creator?”
Kathy: Good question.. when you have a reasonable/ logical answer please share it.
Me: oh, so you don’t have an explanation either – you just like criticizing others for not knowing and then try to act like that’s some score for your argument…”
I’ve never claimed to have a logical explanation William. What I claim.. again.. is that reason and logic heavily FAVOR a Creator. That’s my claim.. based on the evidence, that we .. WEIGH.. a concept that liberals/ atheists refuse to, or just aren’t able to, grasp.
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“His name didnt’ register with me as a Founding Father.. especially when you never corrected me about money making motives. Your comment describing who he was and those circumstances would have made a difference if you’d mentioned it in the beginning. Why didn’t you??”
Because he assumed that any American with half a brain would know who Thomas Paine was. What year did you drop out of school, Kathy?
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Yes Arch, his name does register now.. which still leaves me mystified that no one thought to point this out earlier.. you should have deduced by my comments that I hadn’t realized.
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lol, Kathy Smith, I find you once again, lying, as usual.
Penn never “caved” to you on twitter, he banned you for being a crazy food stamps using, obamaphone carrying, high school drop out unwed mother that stalks celebrities online. greg gutfeld also blocked you and you had your huffington post account shut down six times, that’s right 6 times, fopr harassing steven weber.
you are an evil lying cow and I’m here to expose you for what you really are you idiot!!!!!!!!
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Kathy,
Did it really never occur to you to Google Thomas Paine or Age of Reason?
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William,
“Kathy: I don’t have the specific answers to these questions.. I believe Jesus does know all that the Father knows and that the Trinity always existed.
Me: you do err not knowing the scriptures. Matt 24:36, jesus says that god knows something that he does not. But you “just believe” and you “know all you need to know.” So objective. I guess, to be fair, if you don’t study, then you’re not a liar, just ignorant – eother way though, you’re still wrong.”
Jesus may not have known while He was a man.. but He may know now. There’s no reason to believe He doesn’t know.. He is God.
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Kathy, we can all deduce by all of your comments, you don’t realize a goddam thing.
next to your beloved Bill “Felon” Keller, you are officially the biggest brain dead tool on the internet!!!!! LOL
now run along and enjoy your liberal socialist food stamps and obamaphone,
since jeeezzzuusss won’t feed your sorry republican ass, us liberals have to…
hypocritical fraud!!!!!! 🙂
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“He CAVED.. he was afraid to debate me.. he got offensive before we could even get started.. he’s a smart guy.. smart enough to know not to debate a Christian.” – Yeah, that’s what it was Kathy, just keep telling yourself that. You couldn’t even out-debate Teller!
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“You’re right, I didn’t look into it at all.. and I gave my reasons why. I had stated that he was probably another person taking advantage of the huge market due to the liberal/ atheist agenda. His name didnt’ register with me as a Founding Father.. especially when you never corrected me about money making motives. Your comment describing who he was and those circumstances would have made a difference if you’d mentioned it in the beginning. Why didn’t you?? ” – kathy
several of us did… several times each… but this is what happens when you spout off without reading something. In fact, you’re making a good example of bias and objectivity.
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@kaymss, I cannot wait until ISIS nails you to a cross.
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“Jesus may not have known while He was a man.. but He may know now. There’s no reason to believe He doesn’t know.. He is God.” – kathy
so it’s your belief that jesus was not god while he was on the earth?
I guess I cannot comment on what he knows now or then, but he is quoted as saying he didnt know something that god did know. If jesus says it, shouldn’t that be good enough for you, or do you doubt he really said that or that the bible is inspired bu god?
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@kaymss, I cannot wait until ISIS nails you to a cross.
Wow, that escalated rather quickly. I know there’s a history there but I think I unintentionally lit the power keg.
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