After breaking 1000 comments on the previous thread, I felt it was a good time to start another.
As a reminder, here are some of the most recent outstanding questions for Kathy:
From Laurie:
You said you answered my questions, and wish more questions were asked. Here are some questions that were not addressed.
Matt 23:8 read first
Philemon 1:10
1 Corinthians 4:14-17
1 Corinthians 12:27
2 Timothy 1:11
1 Timothy 2:7
Ephesians 4:11,12Why is it that messiah says not to be called rabbi or father, but Paul it’s not obedient to this command?
Matt 10:7,8
1 Timothy 5:17,18
1 Corinthians 9:11,12Messiah says here that he had given freely, go and freely give. Again, Paul is disobedient.
Matt 18:15
Galatians 2:11-14
Messiah said that if you have a problem with your brother, you should deal with it privately. Here Paul lashes out at Peter “before them all”.
Matt 9:10-12
2 Thessalonians 3:6,7
Yahusha said in the passage above that he came to call the sinner to repentance, not the righteous. Why would Paul want to separate from those that actually need him?
From William:
the “evidences” you listed arent real evidences. And since you refuse to look at things that are counter to your current beliefs, how can you honestly speak to me about evidences?
here’s all I’ve seen you provide:
1) martyrs, even though every religion and many non-religions have them.
2) our very existence – which no one knows how that started, but even if you must land on god(s), you must go back to that book of claims to get to jesus.
3) there were miracles, but as it turns out, those dont happen today, and end up being more claims by the same men who claim they speak for god.
4) the fulfilled prophecies we’ve discussed weren’t really prophecies at all, or had to be viewed so figuratively that it’s difficult to show anything precise about them other than location (maybe) in order to claim they’re actually fulfilled.
5) 40 authors taking 1500 years to write the bible. But there’s nothing miraculous about men writing books, editing books, and being inspired to write a book or letter after reading an older book.
In addition to these, I’d like to ask something of both Kathy and Laurie (Matt or Hayden or portal001 (Ryan) can chime in as well):
The Bible defines God as being all-loving, all-merciful, fair, just, etc. It can also be read as promising an eternity in Hell for those who don’t serve him correctly. As a believer, how do you square those two statements?
Finding Truth 
Hayden,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratamacue
#12 of 26
#38 of 40
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@Hayden,
@Ruth, When Kathy makes you angry just remember, it’s good for the circulation.:)
Had a couple of thoughts about a big comment you did earlier today.
“President Obama is all ready to bypass congress to give them all citizenship.” I know he threatened to do this but he can’t really do that. Checks and Balances I mean.
Also, “The extreme partisanship that has permeated his tenure in the White House is atrocious.” And also not new. It was the same for George W and for Clinton before him. And yes it was just as bad. I am a moderate BTW. Pro Gun/Pro Choice.
We are not in disagreement on a single point here. I didn’t make that bold statement about Obama on immigration. Kathy did and I was attempting to explain his posturing on it. There’s very little a president can actually do on his own. I also agree about the partisanship. As I remember it during Bush’s second term he was rendered pretty impotent by partisanship as well. He got very little accomplished because of it.
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Btw, I’m also a moderate. I’m growing increasingly weary of the extremes on both ends of the spectrum.
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All I’m asking for is honesty and objectivity Ruth. The reason you are so frustrated is because you cannot give it to me, even when I’ve backed you, or Nate or Arch or William or Laurie or anyone else here in a corner.. it’s clear that it aint gonna happen.
No, it couldn’t possibly be because you are completely unreasonable. That couldn’t be it at all.
I’m not backed into any corner. Again, I provided date to shows the actual numbers and for things like welfare statistics. Which you just wave off as not really real.
You’ve made an excellent point, though, about the Bush thing. And that is that people can believe things that are completely untrue and be willing to die for that belief(or send other people to their deaths over it).
You have made some erroneous assumptions that because I dared to talk about partisanship that it was a defense of Obama specifically. That is a defense of every president – ever! I’ve already told you I don’t agree with all of his policies, but that doesn’t mean he never has a good idea or policy.
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Kathy, you’re not being honest, you are never honest.
I have exposed your lies hundreds of times.
and you are certainly not a Christian,
you are a slithering , slimy succubus.
here is a quote from your lying mouth:
“Liberals” also believe in helping the less fortunate (something the BIBLE teaches).”
“Um, sorry but that is NOT an exclusively liberal belief.. not only do conservatives adhere to these teachings of our God, we actually ACT upon it.. MORE than liberals do. We put our money where our beliefs are.. liberals prefer to use other ppl’s money to “help the poor”.
re: https://findingtruth.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/letter-to-kathy-the-bible-has-problems/#comment-11484
so here again we have you boasting about how conservatives do more than liberals to help the poor. a claim you often make.
well, what we know the truth about you is, you give absolutely nothing to help the poor.
not one thin dime, you do not even tithe 10% at your church.
the truth about you Kathy, you are a taker, not a giver. you were on food stamps for years. you were stuffing your fat face with food paid for by liberal policies and the tax dollars of liberals. getting fat off of other ppl’s, money.
why didn’t you go to your church or your fellow christians give you food?
since this is a religious blog, i’ll make a religious point here,
referencing, St Paulie Giirrrllll:
2 Thessalonians 3:10-11
“10For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. 11For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies.…”
he’s talking about you Kathy, you sit on your fat smelly dairy air, living off of govt handouts, getting into everybodies business in a sad attempt to make yourself feel superior to your fellow human being.
what a mockery you make of jeezzzuuuuussss,
keep up the good work making christianity the joke that it is,
liberals and atheist dont’ have to work to get rid your religion, you’re doing a great job of that on your own.
so Kathy, once again I’ve proven your dishonesty and hypocrisy and you have no defense.
I dare you to prove me wrong, something you have never been able to do.
and portal, I can hate all I want, if you have a problem with that, that’s your problem,
go outside and take a deep breath and know that you are not the fully realized human being that you like to think you are.
and Arch, Kathy’s daughter thinks Kathy has issues, too.
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it appears as if I have Kathy “backed into a corner”.
wouldn’t you all agree?
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and portal, I can hate all I want, if you have a problem with that, that’s your problem,
go outside and take a deep breath and know that you are not the fully realized human being that you like to think you are.
That’s true Paul, you can hate to your hearts content.
Never said I was fully realised, whatever that means. I am definitely not better than you, if that’s what you mean by “fully realised” 🙂
All the best
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Paul,
seriously I’m just a regular guy, not different from you or anyone…so sorry if I came off as pretentious.
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Brandon,
I did address you view on Corinthians, but it is not correct. Paul is false for many reasons, not just eating meat sacrificed to idols. But this problem is an easy one to see, if you are willing to see it.
Luke wrote his book with the sole purpose of exposing Paul, so I don’t need to cast it out, and messiah prophecied that Peter would lead YHWH’s people into error at some point, so even if Peter did write that book (which all scholars agree he did not), it does not benefit Paul.
Paul is false because he tried to abolish the law. There are multiple prophecies dealing with this subject, and if you find them to vague, you need to learn the correct way to study prophecy.
Paul is false because he taught an act of sexual immortality, that messiah taught against. Rev 2
Paul is false because he misquoted Torah, like the adversary.
Paul is false because he failed to attend the feasts in Jerusalem for 14 years. According to Torah, if you do not attend Passover, you are cut off from your people.
Paul is false because he contradicts the word of God, and failed to teach anything messiah taught. In fact, I’m pretty sure he only quoted Yahusha 1 time and got it wrong.
He created the doctrine of original sin, which is wrong. He also said in Romans that you are destined for either heaven or hell already and it doesn’t matter what you do, that won’t change.
Paul is false because his writings are full of error, and Ya doesn’t inspire error.
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“Biased liberals. Before them, the majority believed it was the titled authors..” – translated into Kathy-ese, that means biased Conservatives trump biased Liberals —
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“And who would those ‘learned’ biblical scholars before the 21st century be Arch?” – seek, and ye shall find. Who were the “learned scholars” who believed daemons caused disease, before we discovered that germs did?
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Paul,
Lashon Hara is the reason Miriam, Aaron’s sister, was given leprosy in the Torah. This means evil tongue.
Don’t you think you would get better results by showing Kathy that you can be the bigger person?
When my girls are deliberately trying to annoy each other, I tell my oldest daughter that if she stops reacting to her sister, she will go away. She is only trying to get a reaction, and if you don’t give her what she wants, she will stop.
You don’t have to agree with her, but you could show her the kindness that you would want to be treated with.
I think that would impress everyone else here more, and give you better results with Kathy too!
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“he’s a puppet right now” – are you kidding? Cheney had his hand up Bush’s ass all the way to the elbow! Talk about a PUPPET!
“He’s the WORST president this country has ever seen.” – actually, I think that would be a dead heat between W and Nixon.
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portal, good to hear it. now, if it appears I’m a hater, it’s true. I hate kathy, for good reason.
what you guys have been dealing with her for the last few months, I’ve been dealing with for the last 6 yrs. everyone of her arguments she has made over and over ad infinitum, everyone of have been discredited, everytime, for the last 6 yrs I have been following her.
she has absolutely no intentions of learning anything,
her only motivation is to constipate you with her nonsense
and deride and insult you. that is all she does.
and she does it on the taxpayers dime.
I don’t’ know about the rest of you guys,
but I think it is totally within reason to hate a lying, hypocritical, faux christian bully ,
that mocks the constitution of the US, and abuses the govt system in order to feed herself for the energy and body fat to do so.
it’s my job to expose, marginalize and destroy.
I’m sure jeezzzuuuussss would feel the same way, if he were real.
but he’s not, and I can prove that, too. john 14:14
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@brandon
Apologies on the negative vibe, re-read what I wrote and I do felt that the tone was a bit strong.
Nonetheless my points stand, and just because I do not agree with what you’ve said doesn’t mean that I skipped your previous posts. It isn’t nice that you threw this charge at me as though I am jumping to conclusion. Then again to be fair I guess just like how you did not understand Laurie and Nan and therefore insist that they did not provide their opinions/logic, I guess you could say the same of me.
So there’s that. I guess we’re quits?
Onto proper discussion:
From your latest post you mentioned that if Laurie is right then you would need to take out the majority of the New Testament and therefore that’s a problem? Perhaps that’s not what you meant but that’s how I read it.
It does come off as you have already been told the bible (in its current format) is right, and since Paul is in the bible therefore he is right and we will definitely need to go and find some way to make the teachings of Paul and Jesus coherent. However, I disagree with this approach.
What I am asking is this:
Imagine someone during Jesus’s time – say one of the disciples that is not of the 12, who has been listening to the teaching of Paul, why would he be convinced that what Paul said is true? Especially regarding Paul’s claim that he is an apostle? What is the thinking that you propose? Saying that church leaders deciding that Paul’s teaching is canon is not good, as they are already Pauline disciples. What I am interested to know is how would non-Pauline disciples actually end up convinced giving the contradictions that Paul teaches against what they heard from Jesus. Bear in mind they do not have the biases that we have – e.g already have people telling us that Paul is part of the canon when we first read the bible.
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“So I’m glad we talked, but I do not think we will benefit by discussing this subject further. Thanks” – Oooh, Laurie (if that is your REAL name), BURN! At least he’s dropped his nauseating sycophantic behavior. He used to start his rebuttals with such openings as, “That’s a very insightful comment, BUT —“
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it’s my job to expose, marginalize and destroy.
Hope you mean verbally right?
Just wondering,
Are you doing this in the hope to see her change, or is this because she’s frustrated you so much and you don’t like what she writes?
you said she was a bully, and I know you also mentioned the whole “hate for hate” thing, but what is bullying her actually going to achieve? I mean what are you getting out if it?
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Laurie, I really dont’ give a shit about miraims sister’s leprosy, I have AIDS, what’s your point?
besides, miriams sister is dead, problem solved..
I’m not here to impress anyone,
or to show kindness.
I’m not one of your girls.
kathy will always be the bigger person causes she weighs about 50 pounds more than I do.
if you have a problem with me, go tell it to jeeeezzzzuuuuusssss.
maybe if you pray hard enough to your heinous god, he’ll make me go away.
he says he’ll do anything you ask.
but we all know that’s not true.
in the meantime, while you are waiting for your prayers to be answered, why don’t you tell kathy to show a little kindness, ask her to stop lying, and stop insulting and demeaning people in the name of “christianity”?
yep, that’s exactly what i’m going to do, ask you to reprimand Kathy’s bad behavior.
luke 6:30 ” Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.”
Laurie, I’m asking you now to reprimand Kathy, and according to jeeezzzuuuusss own words, you have to do it. don’t disappoint your lord and savior. he’s suffered enough already, don’t you think?
oh, lol, Christians are as dumb as a bag of rocks.
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“A single ratamacue consists of four notes where the first note has drag grace notes and the fourth is accented – Interesting choice —
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Oh btw, just something I would like to share.
When I was a Christian, I always like to imagine myself as one of the Israelites in OT, and wonder if I would haf fared better in terms of faith/trust/love in God. Similarly, I wondered if I were a pious Jew living during Jesus’s time will I believe Jesus or end up like one of the Pharisees or people who stoned Jesus. Similarly, I also wondered if I were a disciple back during Jesus’s time, would I believe what Paul said because his teachings were actually much more radical compared to jesus, whose teaching is also much more radical compared to the OT.
My own humble assessment of myself is that I would most likely fail. Eg I would end up like the Israelite and complain, I would not believe in Jesus and I would not believe in Paul given the same circumstances. Because honestly they are really not that convincing logically. Hence my only solace was that if I were truly pious perhaps Holy Spirit will guide me to think just like Jesus did, and similarly like Paul did which will allow me to believe in whatever they’re teaching.
I think the danger of reading the bible, and seeing all those people who have failed is automatically assuming that you would do better than them given the same circumstances. But honestly I don’t think so.
So for example, perhaps what Brandon says about Paul is true. Indeed he is a true apostle and his teachings are from God. But would it have been convincing to you back then without the benefit of hindsight and big picture (since we have the entire bible canon and all). It is easy to simply say oh look you can study other verses and see how beautifully they mesh together to form Paul’s coherent theology. But that point is useless because someone during that era won’t be able to use it.
Put it in today’s context. Imagine a guy come over and then start to do miracles and then say he is the 2nd coming, but does not fully match the description of the 2nd coming that we expected based on our interpretation of the bible. Then he says we have been reading it wrong, and start to use obscure and out of context reading of the bible to come up with his new theology, and say we must follow him or die. Would you believe him? Anti Christ is able to do miracles.
Well, that is what Jews had to deal with when Jesus came, and to a certain extend early church (not referring to the early Pauline church) but just after Jesus died and resurrected (supposedly anyway I don’t believe in the ressurrection). Jesus deft did not match the description of a messiah fully. And suddenly there is new theology of 2nd coming in order to fulfill all the OT prophesies of the messiah. Honestly how convincing is this to practicing Jews at that time? The same could be said about Paul regarding his radical theology.
Anyway think I’m rambling. And the perils of typing on an iPhone means it is hard for me to proof read and edit. So I’ll just leave this here and perhaps this may shed some light on my train of thought and why I don’t really buy the attempts to reconcile contradictions between Paul’s teaching and Jesus’s.
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Yes arch, if that is your name, I’ve been burned! I actually knew this conversation would go no where, and that’s okay.
I have to side with the false apostle Paul on this one. There are two different Jesus’s, and two different gospels. He is follow one, and I am following the other
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Ratamacue:
#7 of 9
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I’m sorry you are not well Paul. I hope you find healing.
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Paul,
Sorry I was acting like a jerk before, hope things get better for you hey
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portal,
kathy is never going to change. I’m just giving the cow what she deserves.
“do unto others”
kathy likes to insult people, I’m just giving her a biblical 100 fold return on the seed which she sows.
I’m just treating kathy the way her and pastor treats people.
she clearly stated he has a problem with hate, but i’ts ok with her when he does it.
why would it be any different for me?
I know her much better than anyone of you. she belong to a hate group and she spreads the message of hate.
it’s really about her pastor, the reason kathy is involved here, she is the ONLY ONE in the entire planet that promotes and spreads his scam.
here is a website I did a few years back documenting just some of the fraud of Kathy’s pastor,
oh, and if you are interested, here is another blog that kathy played her dishonest game:
kathy posted a video of her pastor saying that Obama was a fulfillment of Islamic prophecy.
read the comments section, right from the start it shows what a deceitful liar kathy is. she denied even posting it, but it was proven that she did.
now, the video had to be removed because her pastor threatened a lawsuit. here is the link to the video.
and here is an exact quote from kathy regarding the video:
“you know darn well that this video is based on facts… it doesn’t present any false information…and it then asks the viewer to draw their own conclusion… what is so wrong with that… NOTHING!… exactly what part is a crock of s***???? Again… your judgement of the video is displaying your reverse ignorance!! You need to read my page on that very problematic social ill again!”
she’s a goddamned liar, anyone of you that thinks kathy deserves any respect at all is an idiot.
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