It had been a while since I’d read Romans 9, but an email correspondence that I keep with a Christian caused me to read it last night. When I was a Christian, this chapter had always been difficult for me, but that’s because I was trying to fit it within my own theology. Last night, I was struck by several things I had forgotten and thought it would be worth sharing.
For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls — she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
— verses 6-13
Here, Paul makes a distinction between those who belong to Israel by birth, and those who are children of Abraham by faith. In other words, just because someone is Jewish does not mean he/she is really God’s child. He then points out that even before Jacob and Esau were old enough to know right from wrong, God rejected Esau in favor of Jacob. That seems a little arbitrary, doesn’t it?
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
— verses 14-18
So is God being unjust in choosing one infant over another? Not according to Paul. Why? Because God can do what he wants.
What kind of answer is that? If Paul’s argument were true, then there would be no such thing as right and wrong. God is always right, regardless of his behavior, because whatever he does is right by default. That flies in the face of what most Christians believe today, yet that’s Paul’s position. And he anticipates an argument about it:
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, oh man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory — even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
— verses 19-24
Paul’s only defense is that we can’t question God. But we’re not questioning God, Paul, we’re questioning you and the authors of the Old Testament.
And don’t miss what Paul says here. He’s saying that God creates some people to show mercy toward, and he creates others that he can use to demonstrate his power. He’s a god with an inferiority complex. Such a god does not actually care for his creation; he uses them as pawns for his own glory. And who is this god trying to impress? Obviously not humans, if he thinks so little of us. And he’s supposedly the only deity, so who’s he putting on the show for?
And what about Paul’s argument regarding the potter and the clay? On one hand, there’s a decent point there. It’s kind of like “don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.” If someone gives you something, don’t be overly critical of it. So if God gave us life, who are we to question him on the quality of it? The problem is Paul is saying more than that. He’s saying if God created you and finds you inadequate, you can’t put that back on God — you can’t complain “why did you make me this way?” But Paul’s wrong about that. If God’s not happy with how humanity turned out, that’s not our fault, it’s his. It would be like a child putting a model together incorrectly and then becoming angry at the model. It’s not the model’s fault that the child built it wrong, so it would be unjust to take that out on the model.
Paul’s God is fickle and arbitrary. He makes people like Pharaoh disobedient, and then punishes them for their disobedience. He picks others for glory and mercy, who have done nothing to merit such favor. The sad thing is that many Christians view this as a good thing and talk about God’s wondrous mystery and mercy. This is not a good thing. Such a God is untrustworthy. Unlimited power and a personality disorder make for a very dangerous combination.
And the description of God in this chapter is at odds with other passages that claim God is the embodiment of love and wants all men to be saved. Both versions can’t be right. In addition to its contradictory descriptions of God, the Bible is filled with all kinds of contradictory accounts, failed prophecies, immoral commandments, bad science, and faulty history. Why do so many people, even after learning about the Bible’s faults, continue to believe that it teaches anything accurate about the supernatural?
Finding Truth 
Howie – I hope that you find it is worth your time. The prevalent telescoping of genealogies in the Scriptures in another way to explain a chronology that is supported by human and natural history.
Paul – Thanks for your link. As an Orthodox Christian I share your views about the importance of the Church and the need to rely upon Holy Tradition for an understanding of Scriptures.
Arch – I think it is accurate to point out that the oral traditions of Mesopotamian cultures probably derive from the same sources. It is possible that the Sumerian Kings List is a product of a more ancient oral tradition. Noah, like the other descendants of Seth, were farmers. Abraham and his descendants were nomadic herdsmen, whose longevity fell with in the historic norms.
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@Marc, “Noah, like the other descendants of Seth, were farmers. Abraham and his descendants were nomadic herdsmen, whose longevity fell with in the historic norms.”
Where is your evidence for the “Historic Norms” to be around the same as for Abraham who died at 175 years?
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Howie, RE CC:
On CC’s own blog, to which he was kind enough to provide a link, I suggested that the god he worships could use a makeover – dump his publicist and start all over again. I personally suggested CC, but as is to be expected on theist sites, the comment is “awaiting moderation.” Seeing that, I added a follow-up comment, which is also “awaiting moderation,” suggesting that theists should have a mutual slogan, “God Is My Moderator,” and that having blog moderation turned on is much like a church with a lightening rod.
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“In God We Trust, but just in case he’s busy –“
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“historic norms, Marc? You DO know what historic means, don’t you, Marc? It means historically verified! Please point me to qualified anthropologists, who have provided sufficient evidence to qualified medical doctors, for them to conclude, “Why yes, this man was over 700 years old when he died!”
Wow, Marc, around Xmastime, I was beginning to think that for a theist, you were a pretty cool frood, but lately, I don’t know – everything OK in your personal life? You’re worrying me —
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KC – The point I wanted to make is that the descendents of Abraham began to live to ages that were much closer to historical norms than the ages given for previous patriarchs.
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I can’t count the number of theist websites I’ve read, that have ridiculed both the Bib Bang and String Theory, both of which are nothing more than astrophysicists looking at the Universe as it is, and attempting to piece together a scenario that would accurately account for how it got that way. But according to the theists I’ve read, that approach is ridiculous – god did it, and that’s that!
Yet you look at the illogical, impossible lifespans of the Bible, and instead of laughing, you propose “telescoping genealogies” as a possible solution. As ridiculous as it sounds, it at least is an effort to make sense of a book seemingly quilled by the Jabberwocky, at least until you make the statement that such a chronology, “is supported by human and natural history” – where on earth do you possibly find evidence – other than on “Answers In Genesis” – to support such a claim?
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Sorry, “Big Bang” – the last time I heard a “Bib Bang,” I had to change the diaper.
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The “Age of Gullibility” DOES wind down at a snail’s pace, doesn’t it, but it’s getting inevitably ever-closer —
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Arch – I can’t find the word frood in my dictionary. Please illuminate me, or lay off the adult beverage. I remain the same misguided soul that I was late last year. I just wanted to supply some comic relief to the conversation here..
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You looked in the dictionary?!! You choose the strangest sources, Marc, you should have been looking in the “Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy,” where you would have found that frood refers to – wait for it – “a really amazingly together guy,” as in: “Hey you, sass that hoopy Ford Prefect? There’s a frood who really knows where his towel is!”
Bringing education to the masses, one at a time, seems to have been my calling, but I’m pretty sure it was a telemarketer.
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Arch – You are forever illuminating! I thank you for the compliment. At my age I often feel that I am coming apart, so it is amazing to still be together. I try to keep my towel on the rack so I know were it is, but sometimes my wife moves it.
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Big mistake – keep it with you at all times. I would explain, but you’d only call it the “rapture.”
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I am a dumb ass Arch. If my “towel” is something other than what I alluded too, you will have to spell it out for this old fart.
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No you’re not, Marc, you’re just unfamiliar with Douglas Adams’ Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy – there were four books to the trilogy. And no, “towel” is not a euphemism, just a towel.
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Thanks for being patient with me Arch. I enjoy your illumination, even though I am an Orthodox Christian.
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@Marc, this is a tough crowd when it comes to “detail” . I believe you are sincere in your corrected comments even though they weren’t your original statements. We tend to take people’s comments at face value, not what they might have meant. 🙂
This is why so many here use critical study of the bible. Did Moses intend to have the old man stoned to death because he was picking up sticks on the Sabbath ? I don’t think he meant to have the old man put in “Time Out” instead. 🙂
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Except Arch……how can you ever take his comments at face value ! 🙂
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I’ve always found “orthodox” to be such an interesting word, especially to the extent that it’s as loaded as it is. The word itself means, “right thinking,” cutting off argument before it begins. Simply stating that I’m “unorthodox,” automatically makes me wrong.
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It’s OK, Marc – nobody’s perfect, but the fact that you’re hanging out with us means you’re a step or two closer —
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KC and Arch – I am truly blessed to have friends who challenge me. I have to search my soul and understanding to see if I am on the right track. I really appreciate what you guys do, even if I do not often agree with you.
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(shrugs) It’s what we do —
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I appreciate those of you who challenge me as well ! I would like to think we are all Truth Seekers .
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Speak for yourself, I’m just looking an all-night taco stand.
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Arch – I thought you lived in Texas where there are taco stands and barbeque joints at every intersection. To hell with the tacos, give me Texas barbequed beef brisket.
KC – I believe that we are all on a journey that will lead us to a “wow moment” when we understand the truth together. In the mean time we have to strive to discard what is not true.
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