Dear Kathy,
Since you graciously agreed (in our recent conversation) to let me present you with some examples of the Bible’s problems, I decided to do it in this way so it would have its own comment thread. As I’ve said, when I was a Christian, one strike against the Bible was not enough to shake my faith — maybe it only seemed problematic, maybe there was an explanation we hadn’t uncovered yet, maybe the historical accounts were wrong, etc. But as the problems began to mount up, I reached a point where I could no longer deny the fact that the Bible had actual errors.
A couple of suggestions before we begin. Try to be as open-minded about this as possible. As you go through these examples, ask yourself if God would allow such problems to exist in a message that he wanted all people to accept and believe? According to the Bible, whenever God sent someone a message, whether it was Pharaoh or Gideon or Nebuchadnezzar or Paul, they had no question whom it was from. They didn’t always follow it, as we see with people like Pharaoh and Solomon, but they didn’t question the source of the message or what it stated. So why would God operate differently today? Why would he want us to be so confused about his message that we’re able to question whether or not it’s really from him?
Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you come to the conclusion that the Bible has actual problems, that doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. There are a number of Christians who don’t believe in inerrancy. And even if you lose faith in the Christian god, that still doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. A number of people, including several of our founding fathers, were deists. I have a lot of sympathy for that view and plan to do a post on it soon.
Some of the items listed here will have links that provide additional information, especially when the issue is too detailed to list here. I hope that you’ll check out those links, since some of them are quite significant points. And regardless of how this article strikes you, I hope it will help serve as a great springboard to launch you into your own research.
Some of the Problems
Creation
The creation accounts in Genesis do not match what we’ve learned through science. This isn’t shocking news, but it bears looking into. Evolution and the Big Bang Theory had nothing to do with my deconversion, but I’ve learned more about both since leaving Christianity. It’s shocking how much misinformation I had been operating under. Not to say that all Christians are that way — that was simply my experience. But the evidence for both evolution and the Big Bang are far more substantial than I had ever realized. Two good resources for learning more about these issues are the following (though I’d also recommend checking out the recent Cosmos series, as well as some of the PBS NOVA specials):
Another problem with the creation accounts is that Genesis 1 says that plants and trees were made on the 3rd day, while man was made on the 6th. But Genesis 2:5-9 says that man was created before there were any plants or trees in the land. Also, the 1st chapter says that man was created after all the animals, but the 2nd chapter implies that it was the other way around. It seems strange that such discrepancies would exist only a chapter apart, but there are a number of textual clues that suggest the first 5 books of the Bible were assembled over a long period of time from various writings written by a number of different people. Many scholars believe that Genesis 1 and 2 represent two separate versions of the creation story that were both included because the compilers didn’t know which was more accurate. Whatever the reason, there’s no question that the differences exist and are hard to explain.
10 Plagues
During the 10 plagues, God afflicts all of Egypt’s livestock with a disease (Ex 9:1-7), and it specifies that it would affect the “horses, the donkeys, the camels, the herds, and the flocks.” We’re told that all of Egypt’s livestock died. But the later plague of boils was said to affect both man and beast (verse 10 of chapter 9). Maybe it meant non-livestock animals. But Ex 11:5 says that the death of the firstborn would also affect Egypt’s cattle, and in Exodus 14, Pharaoh pursues the Israelites with horses.
Hares Chew the Cud
Leviticus 11:6 tells us that hares chew the cud. They do not. Animals that chew the cud are called ruminants. When they eat plant matter, it goes to their first stomach to soften, and then it’s regurgitated to their mouth. They spend time re-chewing it, and then it is swallowed and fully digested. Ruminants (cows, sheep, goats, etc.) are recognizable because their chewing of the cud is very obvious. Hares (rabbits) don’t chew the cud; however, their mouths do move frequently, so it’s possible to see why some people may have assumed that they do chew the cud. Of course, God would know they didn’t, and this is why the passage is problematic. You can read more about this here.
Arphaxad
In the genealogy given in Genesis 11:10-12, we see that Noah fathered Shem and Shem fathered Arphaxad. At the age of 35, Arphaxad fathered Shelah. This information is confirmed in 1 Chron 1:18. But Luke 3:35-36 tells us that Arphaxad’s son was Cainan, and he was the father of Shelah.
Where does Luke get this information? It disagrees with the Old Testament, so who should we believe? Some have suggested that Genesis and 1 Chronicles simply left out Cainan for some reason. But why would they do that? To further complicate it, how could Cainan have fit in there? Genesis tells us that Arphaxad was 35 when he fathered Shelah. Does it really seem likely that Arphaxad became a grandfather by 35, especially when you consider the extreme old ages that people lived to at that time?
Another explanation is that some copyist messed up when copying Luke and Cainan is just a mistake. But this is not much better. First of all, the error would have needed to occur early for it to be in all our copies of Luke. Secondly, are we really comfortable saying that we have the inspired word of our creator, but it got messed up by some guy who wasn’t paying close attention? To me, that doesn’t lend a lot of credence to the idea of inspiration or inerrancy.
Instead, the most likely explanation is that Luke made a mistake. This, of course, would indicate that he was not inspired.
Problems in the Book of Daniel
In Daniel 5, the writer refers to Belshazzar as the son of Nebuchadnezzar 7 different times. Yet we know from multiple contemporary sources that Belshazzar’s father was Nabonidus, who was not related to Nebuchadnezzar. The same chapter says that Darius the Mede took over Babylon, but this person does not seem to have ever existed. Daniel says that he was the son of Ahaseurus, and in mentioning this, the author of Daniel indicates that he was thinking of a later ruler — the persian emperor Darius the Great, whose son was Ahaseurus. This post in particular goes into the problems surrounding the 5th chapter, but if you’d like to learn about the problems in the rest of the book, you can access each article in the series here.
Jairus’s Daughter
In Mark 5:23, Jairus finds Jesus and says that his daughter is at the point of death. While they’re on their way to the house, some of his servants find them on the way and say that she has died and there’s no point in troubling Jesus further.
However, in Matthew 9:18, Jairus already knows that his daughter has died, but tells Jesus that if he’ll lay his hands on her, she’ll live. This may seem like a minor difference, but honestly, there’s only one scenario that could be true. Either the girl was already dead, or she wasn’t. And if Jairus already knew she was dead, then there was no point in his servants coming to tell him that (so of course, they don’t appear in Matthew’s account).
The Centurion
This is similar to the previous issue. Matthew and Luke both record a centurion who asks Jesus to heal his sick servant. Matthew 8:5-13 says that the centurion himself comes before Jesus to ask for help. Luke 7:1-10 says that the Jewish elders went on his behalf, and then he sent servants to follow up. In Luke, Jesus never speaks to, or even sees, the centurion at all.
Hight Priest
In Mark 2:23-28, Jesus talks about the occasion from the Old Testament when David ate the showbread, which Jesus said was in the days of Abiathar the high priest. However, in 1 Samuel 21:1-6, it appears that Ahimelech was the high priest. Some have tried to answer this problem by saying that Abiathar was alive during that particular episode, so Jesus’ statement is still true. But that’s obviously not the intent of the passage. After all, we would correct anyone who said that the tragedy of 9/11 occurred during the days of President Barack Obama. He may have been alive at the time, but that event did not happen while he was President.
430 Years
Galatians 3:16-17 says this:
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
Here, Paul says that the law came 430 years after the promises were made to Abraham. But in Exodus 12:40-41, we see:
Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years. At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the LORD’s divisions left Egypt.
If the Israelites were in Egypt 430 years, then there could not have been 430 years between Abraham’s promises and the law. God made the promises to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3, and as we read on through Genesis, we see that Abraham had no children at this time. Later, he had a son named Isaac. When Isaac was 60 years old, he had Jacob (Gen 25:24-26), and Jacob had 12 sons that produced the 12 tribes of Israel. Already, we can see that some time has passed since Abraham received the promise. Once Jacob’s sons were all grown with families of their own, they finally settled in Egypt. Jacob was 130 years old at this time (Gen 47:9), and this marks the beginning of that 430 year period that the Israelites spent in Egypt.
That means that the time between the promise to Abraham and the giving of the law was actually over 600 years. So why did Paul say 430 years? I think it’s obvious that this was a simple mistake. He remembered the 430 year figure because that’s how much time the Israelites spent in Egypt, and so he simply misspoke. It’s not a big deal… except that he’s supposed to be inspired by God.
Jesus’ Birth
There are a number of issues surrounding Jesus’ birth. First, Matthew’s and Luke’s accounts contradict one another on virtually all the details, which you can read about here. Secondly, Matthew seems to invent an episode where Herod kills all the children in Bethlehem who are 2 and under, causing Mary, Joseph, and Jesus to flee to Egypt (instead of just returning home to Nazareth, because only Luke says that they started in Nazareth). Matthew does this in order to “fulfill” some Old Testament passages that actually have nothing to do with Jesus or killing babies. You can read about Matthew’s misuse of the Old Testament here — it’s quite blatant.
The Virgin Birth is one of the most famous aspects of Jesus’ story, and it was supposedly done in fulfillment of a prophecy from Isaiah. But it turns out that Isaiah was prophesying no such thing — he was talking about an event that was happening in his own time, and Matthew (once again) just appropriated the “prophecy” for his own devices. You can read all the details here.
Another problem concerning Jesus’ birth narratives is that Matthew and Luke both offer genealogies for Jesus, but they are completely different from one another. Worse, they don’t match the genealogies listed in the Old Testament, either. And Matthew claims that there was a pattern in the number of generations between Abraham and David, between David and the Babylonian captivity, and between the Babylonian captivity and Christ. But to get this neat division, he is forced to leave out some names. In other words, that pattern didn’t happen. You can read more about that here.
The Triumphal Entry
While not as blatant as most of these other issues, when Matthew recounts Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem, he once again borrows from the Old Testament, but seems to make a mistake in his implementation. See here for more info.
Judas’ Death
Judas is well known for being the disciple that betrayed Jesus, but what’s not as well known is there are two different accounts of his death, and it’s very hard to reconcile them. According to Matthew, Judas threw his money down at the chief priests’ feet and went out and hanged himself. We’re not told where he did this. The priests then take the money, and instead of putting it back in the treasury (since it’s blood money), they buy a field to use for burying strangers. Because they bought the field with this money, it’s called the “Field of Blood.”
According to Acts, Judas bought a field with his money (we’re not told that he was remorseful), and he somehow fell down, bursting open in the middle and bleeding to death. The field was called “Field of Blood” after that because of the manner in which Judas died.
To make things more complicated, Matthew (of course) says that this happened in accordance with Jeremiah’s prophecy, but there’s nothing in Jeremiah that matches up. The closest reference comes from Zechariah, not Jeremiah.
These issues really complicate the notion of divine inspiration, and you can read more about them here.
The Crucifixion
There are several big problems with the way the gospels record the events of Jesus’ death, including the fact that different times of day are given for it, and even different days altogether. You can read more about this here.
The Resurrection
There are also a number of problems concerning the resurrection, some minor, some major. They’re too involved to get into here, but you can read all about them here and here.
The Problem of Hell
The notion of Hell is fraught with problems. It might even surprise you to learn that the Bible’s teachings on the afterlife change dramatically between the Old and New Testaments. I go into detail about Hell’s problems here, here, and here.
The Problem of Evil
Another huge problem for Christianity is the problem of evil, which I talk about here. This post also addresses the “problem of Heaven.”
The Bible’s Morality
While a number of people believe that the Christian god is the source of all morality, the Bible is actually filled with some monstrous acts that are either commanded by God, done with his consent, or carried out by him directly. I talk about some specific examples here, and I address some of the common responses to them here.
Conclusion
Kathy, there are a number of other examples that could be given, including the prophecy of Tyre that we’ve been discussing. But to me, these are some of the most significant and clear-cut problems. We could try to manufacture explanations for every one of these — some might be more believable than others. But why should we have to? If a perfect God inspired this book, why should it contain so many discrepancies? And honestly, some of these issues can’t be explained. They’re just wrong. The problems go well beyond internal contradictions and unfulfilled prophecies. There are problems of authorship, problems with the doctrines, and problems with the way the texts were written, transcribed, and compiled.
I’m sure you’ve spent your time as a Christian trying to reach those who are lost. You’ve always believed that Christianity is truth, and it’s the one thing that everyone needs. But could it be that Christianity is just as false as every other religion in the world? And if that’s the case, wouldn’t you want to leave it behind? When one is dedicated to finding truth, they have to be prepared to follow it wherever it leads. It’s not always easy or popular. It’s not even a guarantee that you’re right. All it means is that you follow the evidence where it leads to the best of your ability. If you find out that you’re wrong about something, you adjust course when the evidence dictates. If God exists, and if he’s righteous, what more could he ask for than that? I’ll close with my favorite quote:
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
— Marcus Aurelius
Finding Truth 
me: “They both use intimidation and death (Islam) if you try to think for yourself. This is not true of Christianity. God gave us free will, so we could CHOOSE Him. ”
you: Yes and IF I choose not to serve YOUR god, I receive eternal life in HELL. And you don’t consider this coercion by intimidation ?
Are you “coerced”? Doesn’t look like it. Ask Meriam Ibraham about “coercion”..
http://www.examiner.com/article/meriam-ibrahim-rearrested-with-u-s-citizen-husband-daniel-wani-and-children
Sin must be punished.. that you/ atheists feel intimidated by that isn’t going to affect that reality/ fact.
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“As for evidence, did you not read my quotation from Biblical archaeologist William G. Dever, raised in religion, who became an atheist after spending 35 years in the Levant, excavating Biblical sites?
And did you not watch the video I added, from Biblical archaeologist Israel Finklestein?”
No, I wasn’t aware of them.. please direct me to them if they’re not hours long or entire books.
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“And it’s important to know that while it’s often claimed that the original disciples were martyrs, there’s not a lot of good evidence to support this. Most if not all of these stories are legends — in some cases, there are different stories for the same disciple.”
It’s mostly the same kind of evidence we have for ANY historical figures from that long ago. There’s no good evidence to believe they weren’t martyred considering the information we do have.
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“I dismiss Islam because I know about it’s god and it’s teachings/ beliefs.” – they worship the same Abrahamic god and the same patriarch. If your god doesn’t threaten people into believing in him, then what is hell for?
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@Kathy – RE: “please direct me to them” – they’re on this page, and it would take me as much time to find them as you, and since I went to the trouble of finding and posting them for you, I guess if you want to see them, you can find them. Free will, remember –?
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““I dismiss Islam because I know about it’s god and it’s teachings/ beliefs.”
You: they worship the same Abrahamic god and the same patriarch. If your god doesn’t threaten people into believing in him, then what is hell for?”
That’s what they claim.. but it’s a different god.. it’s not the God of the Bible. It’s the god of the Koran written by Muhammad.
And again, sin must be punished or atoned.. If we don’t accept Jesus as our savior, there is no atonement and therefore we cannot be with God. Hell is where we go to be separated from Him.
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“If we don’t accept Jesus as our savior, there is no atonement and therefore we cannot be with God. Hell is where we go to be separated from Him.”
So what did people do during the thousands of years before your Yeshua came along?
And BTW, the Bible says that in Hell, you burn – you don’t call that intimidation?
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BTW – you never did attempt to explain why your god felt the egotistical need to sacrifice his son to himself.
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You know, Kathy, I don’t get the impression that you have any desire to discuss anything at all – I get the feeling you just want to sing “Jesus Loves Me” at the top of your lungs, while jamming your fingers in your ears. I can’t imagine that you and I have anything more to say.
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““If we don’t accept Jesus as our savior, there is no atonement and therefore we cannot be with God. Hell is where we go to be separated from Him.”
So what did people do during the thousands of years before your Yeshua came along?
And BTW, the Bible says that in Hell, you burn – you don’t call that intimidation?”
Arch, I don’t have all the answers.. I do know that God is just and good.. and I do know what happens to us who are here today and are aware of Jesus and what He’s done for us.
Is it intimidating you? Apparently not. Or maybe you are intimidated but are rebelling against God and His rules. Which I believe is the case with most who reject God. Which only shows just how powerful pride and ego is… and why the Bible warns us of this trap over and over. It’s almost laughable that people think they can rebel against God as if they could “win”.. I say “almost laughable” because it’s actually very tragic. Pride is one of satan’s favorite tools.. along with lust and greed.
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Yes, Kathy, you’ve hit on it right here! It is laughable, because it’s actually not true. I used to think this too, but I finally found out just how wrong I was. People very, very rarely “rebel” against God — at least they don’t for long periods. People who are atheists are genuinely atheists. By that, I mean that they truly do not believe in the god of the Bible. They are not afraid of Hell, because they don’t believe it’s a real place.
Many of these people are good, kind people. They do good things, they are upstanding members of their communities, etc. Surely Ruth, if no one else on here, strikes you as someone who would probably fit that description? These are not people who think they can rebel against God, they simply don’t believe he’s there. Why would God allow such people to hold that delusion? According to the Bible, it’s not what he wants — he wants everyone to “come to repentance” — he wants us all to believe. In Acts 9, he dealt with a similar case by actually having Jesus appear to the individual and tell them how mistaken they were. In Acts 10, he dealt with another such case by sending an apostle along with miraculous signs. According to the parable of the lost sheep, he’ll go far out of his way to find those who are wandering.
So if many people are able to sincerely believe that this god is not real, what does that say?
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RE: “I do know that God is just and good” – No, you don’t, Kathy – you know that some men who wrote the Bible SAY that your god is just and good, but you don’t even know, as you’ve amply demonstrated, anything about the men who wrote this or how reliable they may or may not be.
RE: “maybe you are intimidated but are rebelling against God and His rules” – Let me explain the sequential order required for that to come about – first, you have to believe there IS a god, then you have to decide, out of the thousands of choices that have been invented over the eons, WHICH god, and then, and only then, can you rebel against him/her/it. I can’t very well rebel against something I perceive as non-existent.
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Btw, it may surprise you to learn that the OT doesn’t teach about Hell. Heaven either, for that matter. If you remember, the OT talks about Sheol, which is not the same as Hell. Sheol was the destination of all dead, whether good or bad. The notion of Heaven and Hell was inserted into some of the Jewish sects due to all their years under the influence of the Persian and Greek empires.
This is a really significant fact to consider, as it calls into question the modern conceptions of afterlife that are found in most versions of Christianity. I’ve written about this in some detail here, if you’re interested.
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But Nate, that would require that Kathy learn something about the history of the Bible, how, why, and who wrote it, rather than simply what can be found between the book’s covers, and that is something she appears not inclined to do.
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Nan, you said:
“Try reading sources that disagree with the bible and then form your opinions on what is true and what isn’t. When you limit your research only to that which “supports the truth of the Bible,” you are NOT looking at it from an objective, neutral position. You are simply confirming what you already believe.”
Nan, I appreciate your comment.. it seemed very sincere. But here’s the thing.. I DO know and learn about opposing arguments to the Bible. One of the very best ways to learn? On debate forums. When someone presents a point on something I don’t know about, I have to learn about it in order to debate it. And I’m pretty sure I’ve already heard most of the arguments. There is a point where you have to draw the line.. I don’t mean to stop learning about opposing views but ,as I mentioned earlier, it’s become a pretty good market today.. they are all coming out to write their book and grab some of that money/ market.. this is true of many writers on many different subjects.. but with religion, it’s got the added personal bias. I’ve had many people recommend Ehrman’s (sp?) book.. but they couldn’t give me a valid reason .. how this guy is different and why I should trust his “objectivity”.
Everything you’ve addressed about my lack of objectivity, I am fairly sure applies to all of the atheists here. Objectivity is my “specialty”.. it’s what I’ve taken pride in for all of my adult life. Not that I’ve always been perfectly objective.. and that’s part of it.. admitting that you might not always be. Seldom do you get these kinds of admissions from atheists/ liberals.
Honestly, as I think about some of the comments I’ve made here, I really can’t believe you believe what you do about my lack of objectivity.. which to me, shows your lack of objectivity.
The only thing to do when people disagree is to address the specifics.. could you provide any of my comments that show that I’m not being objective? You may refer to my exchange with Arch and how I don’t know about the theory of the true authors of the 5 books.. I’m not opposed to learning about it, but I would need some encouragement.. something that tells me it’s not just more ridiculous stuff that’s being passed around and believed and has no real supportive evidence.. just bias along with a desperate need to disprove the Bible. There is just so much of it.. it must be weeded through.
“As several have already commented, they have been in the same place that you are. In other words, there simply was NO OTHER WAY to see it but that GOD was the be-all and end-all. But somewhere along the way, they discovered the fallacy of this belief and became non-believers ”
I’ve never seen my faith as the “only way”, I’m fully aware of the other religions and non religion theories. Believe it or not but Christians question.. and it’s not against God to do so. He gave us inquiring minds. And He also gave us a source for the answers. There for anyone to pick up and read.. with honesty and objectivity.
I keep getting reminded that the non believers here were once “believers”.. and then discovered the “truth”.. this is a popular “selling point” for those wanting to make money off of this market. my understand is that Ehrman is one of those supposed “converts”. But this doesn’t work for me or anyone who understands the atheist mind. You all make this point while also claiming that people believe what they grew up in.. except you all I guess, you decided to think for yourselves.. well Christians do too.
Bottom line Nan, I’m here ready and willing to debate ANY point you all want to throw at me.. I’m extremely confident I will have the better argument. It’s very hard to be that confident if I’m not aware of the opposing view/ arguments. You HAVE to be objective to take on all the people I have and survive with confidence in tact.
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Nan, just now as I was scrolling through the comments looking for the ones I haven’t addressed, I re-read this comment of yours.. which came BEFORE the last comment you left me about my lack of objectivity.
You said: ““Liberals” also believe in helping the less fortunate (something the BIBLE teaches).”
And I responded: Um, sorry but that is NOT an exclusively liberal belief.. not only do conservatives adhere to these teachings of our God, we actually ACT upon it.. MORE than liberals do. We put our money where our beliefs are.. liberals prefer to use other ppl’s money to “help the poor”.
Claiming that conservative / Christians don’t believe in helping the less fortunate shows an extreme lack of objectivity. There is no basis for this belief.. what evidence do you have that supports this claim?? but I do know that the biased liberal media pushes this lie and that the biased liberal media aka main stream media.. it’s what most of the population gets fed to them. So, to some SMALL extent, you have a little bit of an excuse.. BUT, after I had just explained to you how fallacious your belief was.. that helping the less fortunate was NOT an exclusive liberal belief.. you STILL went on to point out how I lack objectivity. And never addressed your false claim. It’s very frustrating when people accuse you of something that they themselves are actually guilty of. And liberals do this a lot. In fact if liberals didn’t do this, they actually couldn’t be liberals.
Here’s an article.. there are numerous studies that show that conservatives give more to help the needy.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79888.html
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“I would daresay the folks on this blog that continue to disagree with you (and Mike) are those who have not only read the bible (as well as the “evidence that supports” it), but have ALSO thoroughly investigated the claims made against it. ”
Implying of course they are the only ones. the usual narrative that if you haven’t flaked out of your faith its likely because you have not studied and yet they bring some of the most half baked alleged contradictions to the floor. I’ve been debating skeptics for years investigated the claims against the Bible and on the evidence decided on the Bible. That narrative doesn’t work with me and hopefully not with Kathy
The one thing that you all are most deluded on is your own knowledge of the Bible. Nates shown some fairly basic lacks in areas so that just won’t work and f that were not enough you run to the hills most times whenever the original languages are discussed.
Most of you do not know squat about Hebrew or greek but here you are holding yourselves out as having fully researched the bible.
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“You may refer to my exchange with Arch and how I don’t know about the theory of the true authors of the 5 books.. I’m not opposed to learning about it, but I would need some encouragement.. something that tells me it’s not just more ridiculous stuff that’s being passed around and believed and has no real supportive evidence.. just bias along with a desperate need to disprove the Bible. There is just so much of it.. it must be weeded through.”
Perhaps you missed it, but I posted that information here:
https://findingtruth.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/letter-to-kathy-the-bible-has-problems/#comment-11278
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Yet an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, all-perfect god stood idly by and watched as millions of its “chosen” people were tortured and executed.
Congratulations! Your moral code is superior to that of the god you claim to worship.
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Here’s something to ponder:
Stone-age campers from 800,000 years ago left evidence of their existence, yet millions of people wandering the desert for four decades ~3500 years ago left no trace of their stay whatsoever.
http://nauka.in.ua/en/news/articles/article_detail/4751
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Mike, ” I’ve been debating skeptics for years investigated the claims against the Bible and on the evidence decided on the Bible. ”
The first part should say, “I’ve been berating skeptics for years” And the reason you have decided on the evidence on the Bible might also be attributed to indoctrination . If you think skeptics are ignorant of what the bible really says, I would venture to say there are as many christians who are this way as well. Your calling should be berating ignorant christians whose only exposure to the bible is the 1 scripture sermons their pastors deliver.
Kathy, “Bottom line Nan, I’m here ready and willing to debate ANY point you all want to throw at me.. I’m extremely confident I will have the better argument. ” No arrogance here !
Most scholars , theist or atheist don’t exude this kind of confidence when discussing the bible. What do you know that they don’t ?
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“Yet an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, all-perfect god stood idly by and watched as millions of its “chosen” people were tortured and executed.”
Yawn…..Do you ever improve? You get one point busted up by My Hitler example and you try and float another one. I might have stopped Hitler because I can’t see ahead but God saw further ahead and used Hitler to bring about a fulfilled prophecy of Jews taking back Israel after thousand of years.
Further When the world has only people who trust in God (chosen people or not) instead of following your lead you can blame God for all the mayhem and for not intervening. As long as there are people like you they will have to take some responsibility for their own actions and the fallen human race for one of their own – Hitler.
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“I’ve been berating skeptics for years”
Thats probably correct as well. do better and I can stop 🙂
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“Stone-age campers from 800,000 years ago left evidence of their existence, yet millions of people wandering the desert for four decades”
They lived in one place not moved though like nomads. You keep googling though. Improves your internet skills
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“Btw, it may surprise you to learn that the OT doesn’t teach about Hell. Heaven either, for that matter.?”
She’d be surprised Nate because you are lying. Though The OT doesn’t get into Hell very much it certainly DOES talk about Heaven where God resides and SEVERAL passages in the OT indicate that saints do die and go to him. The illusion you have created in your mind that the NT’s teachings of Heaven and Hell had to have come form the persian and greek influence is just that – an illusion
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