There’s a passage in Ezekiel that some Christians view as a prophecy that has been fulfilled by modern Israel:
and say, ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will fall upon the quiet people who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having no bars or gates,’
— Ezek 38:11
How could Ezekiel have foreseen a time in which Israel’s cities would not need walls for protection? It’s true that most modern cities today do not need walls, so does this qualify as an example of a fulfilled prophecy?
I think there are two things we need to look at in examining this. First of all, let’s make sure that Israel really has no walled cities. And secondly, let’s examine the context of this prophecy to make sure we’re not missing anything.
Israel Today
It turns out that Israel actually does use walls today. The West Bank barrier will eventually be about 430 miles long. It’s still being constructed, but as of 2012 it was already 272 miles long.
Most of the barrier is a fence. While that’s not exactly the same as a wall, it serves the same basic purpose. Plus, it uses “bars and gates,” which runs counter to Ezekiel’s prophecy. And some portions of the barrier are indeed tall concrete walls, as shown in these pictures.
Photos courtesy of Wikipedia
In addition to the West Bank barrier, there’s also a barrier between Israel and the Gaza strip. Just like the West Bank barrier, it’s comprised mostly of fence with some concrete sections.
Does the current state of Israel really match Ezekiel’s description?
The Context
If we back up to Ezekiel 37, we see the famous skeleton army that God raised up for Ezekiel. And God tells him (vs 11-14) that the army represents the nation of Israel. Though it seems lost, God will restore it one day — he will be their God, and they will serve him. This is a pretty constant refrain among the prophets, Ezekiel in particular. This refers back to the kingdom of Israel, northern neighbor to Judah. The OT says that Israel and Judah were made up of the original 12 tribes. After the death of Solomon, the northern 10 tribes broke away and formed the nation of Israel (appointing a new king not of David’s line), and the southern 2 tribes formed the nation of Judah. There’s not good archaeological support for this story at this point in time. However, the existence of the two separate kingdoms is quite well attested.
In about 722 BCE, the Assyrian Empire took Israel captive, and the Jewish prophets ascribed this to their failure to serve God faithfully. However, they also predicted that the 10 lost tribes would one day return from captivity. This hasn’t happened.
Ezekiel elaborates even further:
Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. 22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Notice that the end of that passage focuses on Israel’s faithfulness to God. Yet that certainly doesn’t match modern Israel. Like most modern nations, its not homogeneous in its religious views. To me, this is one of the first clues that Ezekiel is not talking about today’s Israel. In verses 26 and 27, it says that God’s sanctuary will be in their midst as well. But with the Muslim Dome of the Rock shrine occupying the Temple Mount, it seems unlikely that a Jewish or Christian worship center will ever take its place. Maybe Ezekiel meant that statement figuratively or spiritually, but it’s still something to consider.
In chapter 38, it initially looks like Ezekiel is changing subjects, because he begins talking about Gog, whom he calls a prince of Meshech and Tubal. But this will actually tie right back in to his discussion about Israel. Gog and the other terms are likely being used figuratively in this passage, though it probably doesn’t matter much either way. The point Ezekiel is making is that God will take Israel’s enemies (represented by Gog and those who serve him) and allow them to build up a mighty force to come upon Israel. It’s at this point that Ezekiel refers to Israel as a land of “unwalled villages.”
To me, this does not seem like Ezekiel cares too much about whether the villages literally have walls or not. The point seems to be that Israel will be living in peace and not have any idea that some horrible force might be amassing against them. This allows God to annihilate Gog and his armies, and it will be obvious to all the surrounding nations that God must have been the one to do it, since Israel was in such a defenseless state:
21 I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Lord God. Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 With pestilence and bloodshed I will enter into judgment with him, and I will rain upon him and his hordes and the many peoples who are with him torrential rains and hailstones, fire and sulfur. 23 So I will show my greatness and my holiness and make myself known in the eyes of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.
Again, this does not match today’s Israel. Israel knows that it’s surrounded by nations who are opposed to them, so it seems unlikely that they could be caught unaware. And their level of military might is quite high.
Ezekiel 39 continues the curse against Gog and reiterates much of what we’ve already covered. However, it also says that once God has dealt with Gog’s armies, the people of Israel will take spoils from their remains:
9 “Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and make fires of the weapons and burn them, shields and bucklers, bow and arrows, clubs and spears; and they will make fires of them for seven years, 10 so that they will not need to take wood out of the field or cut down any out of the forests, for they will make their fires of the weapons. They will seize the spoil of those who despoiled them, and plunder those who plundered them, declares the Lord God.
I suppose language like this could be viewed figuratively, but I find it a bit striking that this language is so obviously suited for the warfare and way of life of Ezekiel’s time, yet some claim that he foresaw a future in which walls would not be needed for cities? If he could foresee that, why wouldn’t he have foreseen technological advances as well?
I feel that these 3 chapters paint a very clear picture. Ezekiel still believed that the 10 tribes of Israel would one day come back. He was certain that his god was the only true God, and he could understand why God might be angry with his people — but abandon them? Surely he would one day restore them. One day God’s people would be mighty and live under his protection — one day they would finally, fully realize those promises that were made to Abraham. I think that’s the future he was looking toward and describing. But even if he meant something else, there’s really no indication that he was imagining anything like the Israel of today.
Some Closing Thoughts
Since Ezekiel gave no timeline for his prophecy, it’s hard to point to it as a failure. In other words, no one would likely point to this passage and say “see, the Bible can’t be inspired because this prophecy didn’t come true.” That’s really a conversation for another post. But can the converse be said? Can someone really point to Ezekiel 38:11 and say that modern Israel is its fulfillment? I just don’t see it. I think the fact that Israel uses barriers today, that its safety and security always seem tenuous, and that the context of this passage seems to be talking about something completely unrelated to modern Israel shows that it is a very poor example of prophecy fulfillment.
Finding Truth 
“So, your god could turn up as a talking donkey?”
Stupid non productive comment. lets see if you get banned or threatened with it. LOL
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I think the passage in Ezek 39 isn’t saying that they’ll discover that Yahweh is the true god for the first time, but that his restoring them and judgment upon Gog’s armies will be further proof of that. I really don’t know any other way to square it with chapters 37 and 38.
If you feel that they don’t have to turn back to God before Gog’s armies come, how do you explain these verses from chapter 37?
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No, Mike, just trying to add a little levity. After all, the bible did feature a talking donkey, yes?
I am interested, in that case, what sort of manifestation you expect of your god?
Could you be specific?
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But god could reveal himself as Allah, via the koran, as many do believe – except christisns believe that god has revealed himself through the bible and jesus, so I would assume all jews should be christian – which kind is another question.
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“No, Mike, just trying to add a little levity.”
You were (badly) attempting mockery and everyone know it though they may cover for you or look the other way
“I am interested, in that case, what sort of manifestation you expect of your god?
Could you be specific?”
Try and keep up Sparky III . Nates question was not about Form but about Christian or Judaic.theologgy
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Isn’t, ”Sparky III” a pejorative? I thought this was supposed to have stopped?
No, no mockery, you appear to take care of that all by yourself.
I was actually being very serious.
I really am interested in what form you expect your god to take when this manifestation arrives.
It is a fascinating subject.
Do you, in fact, have at least some idea, Mike?
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“Will Yahweh only be sanctified in them after they are all gathered into Israel?”
The passage you quoted makes it clear – the sanctification is “in the sight of many nations”
So yes this has to occur for that to happen
Yes, but:
Will that be when there are no more Jews left that are not in Israel? Is this about race or beliefs? There are gentiles who have converted to Judaism. And what about Jews who have married and reproduced with other races? Are those children counted as Jews? What about their children?
How many Jews are in captivity in other lands now who are not free to go there at any time now or since WWII? That passage also implies(not really, it states) that God is bringing the Jews back to Israel out of captivity.
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It was intended for a different time, Ruth – anyone should be able to see that.
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“Isn’t, ”Sparky III” a pejorative? I thought this was supposed to have stopped?
No, no mockery, you appear to take care of that all by yourself.
I was actually being very serious.”
LOL…. I’ll take it one better. You are full of garbage. You were serious about asking If God would appear as a donkey? Take another bow you dishonest soul 🙂
and yeah I am fine being banned oir calling you out on such obvious lying. It would be a great way to end my participation with nate showing yet more bias.
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Final warning, Mike. You were pushed a bit, but you need to let it go.
Ark, I need you to drop it as well. I did’t take your donkey reference to be all that insulting — as you said, it comes from the story of Balaam (Numbers 22). I just want to make sure that you don’t let Mike’s replies to that push you into anything else.
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I feel confident that anyone else reading this thread would realise that I was not serious in expecting your god turning up a donkey. Let’s not get tetchy, shall we?
But I am serious with regard what you think your god will manifest as when he returns.
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Thank you for staying on point, Ark 🙂
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“And what about Jews who have married and reproduced with other races? Are those children counted as Jews? What about their children?”
What???? 🙂 This prophecy must have really got to you What does any of that have to do with whether the passage is fulfilled or not
“That passage also implies(not really, it states) that God is bringing the Jews back to Israel out of captivity.”
So? Some Jews are prophecied to go into a very short captivity around the same time
” For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
The New King James Version. (1982). (Zec 14:2). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.”
Zechariah BTW is written after the return of the jews to Israel from Babylonian captivity.
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“Ark, I need you to drop it as well. I did’t take your donkey reference to be all that insulting — as you said, it comes from the story of Balaam (Numbers 22)”
Oh please it was mockery. The passage says nothing about God becoming a donkey. Your bias is on display again.
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” feel confident that anyone else reading this thread would realise that I was not serious in expecting your god turning up a donkey. Let’s not get tetchy, shall we?”
I didn;t say it was. Mockery is not serious thats the point
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You may feel that it was mockery, and you may feel that I am biased. But there are better ways of stating how you feel that would be more in keeping with the comment policy I’m trying to establish. Why don’t you unsubscribe from this thread and just follow along with the “Kathy” posts? The conversations there seem to be more in keeping with your tone.
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No problem. Glad we have cleared that up.
Now, to the point at hand. What do you think your god will manifest as when he returns, Mike?
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The thing about Ark’s donkey comment is actually a great example.
He posted his comment — maybe he meant it as a dig, maybe he didn’t. You took it that way and said something about it. At that point, Ark said that he didn’t mean it as mockery. Once he does that, all you can do is let it go. You can say, “okay, thanks for clearing that up.” Or even, “well, it really came off that way to me, but maybe I just misunderstood.”
And from there, you just move on with the actual points, instead of insisting that the other person meant a particular thing. Maybe they did; maybe they didn’t. But what good does it do to hash it out over and over?
So again, please stay focused on substance from this point forward.
Thanks
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“And what about Jews who have married and reproduced with other races? Are those children counted as Jews? What about their children?”
What???? 🙂 This prophecy must have really got to you What does any of that have to do with whether the passage is fulfilled or not
No, it relates to this:
Will that be when there are no more Jews left that are not in Israel? Does that passage mean the Yahweh is going to gather all the Jews to Israel? Which is a question about this particular verse:
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Then you said about the Jews being in captivity:
So? Some Jews are prophecied to go into a very short captivity around the same time
This is one of those parts that hasn’t happened, yet, then? And one you need another prophecy to interpret?
How would Ezekiel’s audience have understood this? They didn’t have Zechariah to interpret it by.
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@ Nate
(1) Embarrassingly, I really didn’t know much about that wall around the West Bank. So I enjoyed the pics and the background.
But do you agree now that they don’t really support your protests.
They may be one of the weakest sides of your objections.
Your other points, though I think carry merit.
(2) Looks like you and T agree that the prophecy is not yet fulfilled or even about to be fulfilled — right?
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“You may feel that it was mockery”
NO objective person would take “will your God Manifest as a donkey?” anyone other way. LOl…thats HILARIOUS. You are kidding no one Nate. Especially on this post you would love me gone for completely other reasons since you are not really making any headway on its claim. Its simple – reign in the kind of mockery you CLAIMED to be detesting and we would not be having this back and forth on this
Be honest and unbiased (or even honest about your bias) and we have no issue. Want to ban because you want to make up excuses and exceptions to your alleged policy hey! like I said and meant i would be QUITE fine going out on something so OBVIOUSLY biased. Badge of honor actually (and yes Tired of the hypocrisy so theres that benefit as well)
Just make sure afterwards to make sure no one refers to MA Blacksman or any derivative of my name or in anyway that can be traced back to me .Common decency character slander kind of thing. If they don’t like I have said before its not possible to ban anyone on the internet. – too many email addresses and IPs available very easily. I would be obliged to respond to slander and it will just make more work for you.
Shame you have to be so biased (twice now in one thread with Sabio even agreeing with me on the first flimsy excuse)while claiming to be instituting a new alleged fair policy but its not the first time what you say is completely different than what you practice. Don’t want it to be a derogatory mocking zone then step up to the plate and make it so for both sides not do your usual game of pretending.
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“(2) Looks like you and T agree that the prophecy is not yet fulfilled or even about to be fulfilled — right?”
all the prophecies were never claimed to have been fulfilled and the passage as well as others prophecy an interim period
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Hey Sabio,
The point about the wall is something that I think can be seen either way. I think it depends on how literal one is being. Does Israel today use walls in the same way that a village would have in Ezekiel’s time? No. Nor are they made of the same materials.
However, Ezekiel lived in a time when it would have been very difficult and impractical to wall off a nation. Instead, they were kind of forced to limit it to towns. Plus, city-states were more common back then as well. Regardless, the purpose of a city’s walls were to keep it safe. So I think Ezekiel isn’t so much talking about masonry walls as he is talking about safety and security. Walls aren’t needed if there are no threats. And I think the context of the prophecy helps indicate that that was his focus.
But even if we want to be more literal than it just meaning “safety and security,” I do think the use of barriers in Israel today creates problems for this verse. The building materials have changed, but the barriers in Israel today serve the same purpose as walls in Ezekiel’s time — they protect those inside the walls and keep enemies out. That’s exactly what Israel uses its walls for today.
Sorry, I can’t seem to answer anything with brevity. 🙂 Anyway, I think if we examine the context of the passage, it doesn’t fit modern Israel. I also think if we look at the intent of 38:11, it still doesn’t match modern Israel, since they do still use fortifications. But if someone wants to insist that Ezekiel only meant masonry walls that surrounded individual villages, then I would agree that Israel doesn’t seem to use those today.
Incidentally, I also agree that it wasn’t the strongest part of my argument.
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Fine, Mike. You finally get your wish. I’ll let everyone on the Kathy thread know that you’re gone. I can’t guarantee that no one will reference you from this point on — you’ve made quite the impression. But I’ll pass along your request. If anyone refers to you in a way that violates the policy I’m going for, then they’ll get the same warnings (and eventual banning) that you’ve earned. If you come back over and over under different emails and IPs, I guess that’s a game we can play. But I’ll eventually realize it’s you and just ban you all over again. We both have better things to do.
Good luck to you.
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“This is one of those parts that hasn’t happened, yet, then? And one you need another prophecy to interpret?
How would Ezekiel’s audience have understood this? They didn’t have Zechariah to interpret it by.”
trying to dodge what the BIble as a whole teaches on subjects is really a poor technique to avoid what it teaches. We could get into much more detail of context if I am around but since I won’t oblige hypocrisy I am fine with that not being something that happens. Exzekiel’s audience would be fine with the passage and understanding it. It doesn’t stop God adding details of what he would do later. As it is theres nothing inaccurate about Ezekel saying captivity and none of them would think it odd.
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