The NEWS, Kathy???? Watch the news to find out if sin exists? You’ve got to be kidding. Now get serious. Where does the concept of sin come from?
*********** And being born as a sinner doesn’t excuse your sin.
We are NOT born as sinners. According to early Judaic teachings (and maintained in modern-day Judaism), everyone is born innocent; that is, they enter the world free of sin. Throughout life, people may make choices that lead to sin, but it is not part of their inherent nature. To the Jews, sin is a violation of the divine commandments and is seen as an act (thought, word, or deed), not a “state of being” or part of the human condition. Further, God explained in Ezekiel (18:20) that sinners will be punished for their own sins, not for the sins of others (i.e., Adam and Eve).
In case you missed it, it’s the Judeo-Christian religion.
The idea that sin is inherent to all humans is something that Paul dreamed up.
“Because he only watches cameras, Kathy ! He hasn’t a clue how they work !
You watch your computer monitor for hours. Can you tell me how the images get on your monitor ? Please feel free to be specific……..”
He’d have seen this before, he’d have suspected this possibility.. he most likely has asked all kinds of questions of people with more experience and also security companies.
I called an electrical company when my lamps were going on by the themselves looking for a technical explanation.. he didn’t have an answer for me.
“And being born as a sinner doesn’t excuse your sin.”
Kathy , this was the big lie that bit Christianity on the butt. During the enlightenment period it was also discovered that man alone did not create life but woman had an egg which combined with the man’s sperm created an embryo.
Scholars then realized that Jesus must have been born to sin as well since his Mother (Mary) was a human female.
To avoid further embarrassment , the Catholic Church had to invent something called, “The Immaculate Conception”
“He’d have seen this before, he’d have suspected this possibility..”
No he wouldn’t Kathy ! A Security Company technician who works on hundreds of cameras for hundreds of customers would not be surprised at this but 1 police officer watching 13 cameras most likely never had this happen before .
Were your lamps the touch type that came on when you touched them? If they only came on by turning a switch, it is highly unlikely they came on by themselves. Either someone was playing a trick on you or you were dreaming.
It’s just another way of saying nobody’s perfect. We all do things which are socially unacceptable or fall short of our own personal standards. When I get more angry than I should about something, or judge someone, or am catty, or rude I feel like those are flaws. There are things in my evolutionary genetic makeup that are flaws.
I am a happy person and I do have joy in my life, but were I never born I wouldn’t know that. Whether or not I’m flawed because of my evolutionary make-up or I was born into sin, I don’t have a choice in the matter. Even your NT tells us we are born with a sin nature, Kathy. That God would punish people for being born into a condition over which they have no control is asinine.
“Kathy , this was the big lie that bit Christianity on the butt. During the enlightenment period it was also discovered that man alone did not create life but woman had an egg which combined with the man’s sperm created an embryo. ”
You mean it didn’t tip humans off that the offspring coming OUT of the woman meant that a human female was involved? They didn’t realize this until the .. um “enlightenment”?
What is your evidence that the Church invented Jesus’ immaculate exception?
I had heard of that cross-talking before within electronics. It’s sort of like when you’re listening to a radio station and can faintly hear another station at the same time. Or at least that’s the way I picture it. I’m not an electrician and didn’t know the terminology for it but that seems like the most plausible explanation for it.
The Bible gives us no reason to believe that Mary was sinless. In fact, the Bible gives us every reason to believe that Jesus Christ is the only Person who was not “infected by sin and never committed a sin (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5).
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception originated out of confusion over how Jesus Christ could be born sinless if He was conceived inside of a sinful human female. The thought was that Jesus would have inherited a sinful nature from Mary had she been a sinner. In contrast to the Immaculate Conception, the biblical solution to this problem is that Jesus Himself was miraculously protected from being polluted by sin while He was inside Mary’s womb. If God was capable of protecting Mary from sin, would He not be able to protect Jesus from sin? Therefore, Mary being sinless is neither necessary nor biblical.
The Roman Catholic Church argues that the Immaculate Conception is necessary because without it, Jesus would have been the object of His own grace.
“Many people mistakenly believe that the Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ conception was most assuredly immaculate, but the Immaculate Conception does not refer to Jesus at all. The Immaculate Conception is a doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church in regards to Mary, Jesus’ mother.”
“No he wouldn’t Kathy ! A Security Company technician who works on hundreds of cameras for hundreds of customers would not be surprised at this but 1 police officer watching 13 cameras most likely never had this happen before .
Were your lamps the touch type that came on when you touched them? If they only came on by turning a switch, it is highly unlikely they came on by themselves. Either someone was playing a trick on you or you were dreaming.”
Interesting.. I’m glad you asked.. here’s what happened..
There were 3 incidences within a one week period.. the first happened when I was watching tv, the lamp next to me flickered on and off twice within a few seconds time.. it was during the day so the lamp was not on. I did check the lamp to see if the turn switch was loose or in a half way position.. anything to explain what I just saw but it seemed normal.
The 2nd incident a day or two later happened when I went to check on my daughter before going to bed.. like I always did. She was about 8 or 9 at the time I think. Anyway, her lamp next to her bed was on and she was sound asleep. This NEVER happened before. When she went to bed I turned her lamp of and it stayed off.. I always left the hall light on so it wasn’t completely dark in her room. It was odd enough that I had to wake her up and ask her if she had turned her lamp on.. she was half asleep but said no. I did ask her again the next day.. I really wanted to find an explanation.
And the 3rd time was during a thunder storm, I was in my bedroom and yes, that lamp was a touch lamp.. the others were not. I always knew there could be an explanation for that one.. but with all 3 incidences, they never happened again.. and they all happened within a weeks time of each other.
And I should add that this is the home I grew up in, both of my parents passed away while living there but only my dad passed away in the home.. in the bedroom where the touch lamp went on.
Naturally, I wanted to believe that it was one or both of my parents. But, after talking to people more knowledgeable than me about Christianity and the Bible, I was told that it wasn’t them, but demonic spirits wanting to deceive me into believing it was them.
Needless to say, I’ve been paranoid ever since.. hoping that whatever it was it didn’t follow me to my other homes that I’ve lived in since then. So far so good… except for one other strange incidence that happened in the parking garage of my next home.. a condo.. there was a newspaper rack next to the elevator.. significant because my dad was a newspaper carrier for most of his working life, along with other side businesses. The door of the rack was moving back and forth.. it was lightly jiggling. And I couldn’t and still can’t figure out an explanation for that.. it wasn’t windy. The only rational explanation would be that some sort of creature was inside.. but I didn’t hear anything other than the noise of the door.
Anyway, that’s my story, and I’ve found that a good percentage of others also have a story of their own or know someone who does.
I thought it was interesting that Ruth never addressed if anyone she knew had a story when I asked her about that.
“You mean it didn’t tip humans off that the offspring coming OUT of the woman meant that a human female was involved? They didn’t realize this until the .. um “enlightenment”?”
Karl Ernst von Baer discovered the mammalian ovum in 1827, and Edgar Allen discovered the human ovum in 1928. The fusion of spermatozoa with ova (of a starfish) was observed by Oskar Hertwig in 1876.[5][6] (wiki)
““That God would punish people for being born into a condition over which they have no control is asinine.”
Well said, Ruth !”
Not well said.. we have free will. This is completely overlooked. We DO have control over sinful acts. And those are the sins we are punished for.. or receive salvation from.
“Karl Ernst von Baer discovered the mammalian ovum in 1827, and Edgar Allen discovered the human ovum in 1928. The fusion of spermatozoa with ova (of a starfish) was observed by Oskar Hertwig in 1876.[5][6] (wiki)”
Again, nothing “new”.. no “enlightenment”.. it was pretty obvious that the female had something to do with procreation.
“And the 3rd time was during a thunder storm, I was in my bedroom and yes, that lamp was a touch lamp”
OK The thunderstorm explains this one .
“The 2nd incident a day or two later happened when I went to check on my daughter before going to bed.. like I always did. She was about 8 or 9 at the time I think. Anyway, her lamp next to her bed was on and she was sound asleep. ”
You could have become distracted and forgot to turn it off. I have done this more than once. Who hasn’t ?
“first happened when I was watching tv, the lamp next to me flickered on and off twice within a few seconds time.. it was during the day so the lamp was not on.”
The switch could have actually been stuck in the middle. A vibration (big loud truck going past the house) could have triggered it to flicker.
“Naturally, I wanted to believe that it was one or both of my parents. But, after talking to people more knowledgeable than me about Christianity and the Bible, I was told that it wasn’t them, but demonic spirits wanting to deceive me into believing it was them.”
Exactly ! You WANTED to believe it was a deceased loved one.
Reason cannot convince you if you WANT to believe something else.
Finding Truth 
“What makes you think a person who watches security cameras for a living isn’t aware of these things?”
Because he only watches cameras, Kathy ! He hasn’t a clue how they work !
You watch your computer monitor for hours. Can you tell me how the images get on your monitor ? Please feel free to be specific……..
.
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Here is a bit to get you started – apparently these findings only came out a couple months ago, so I can understand why you are unaware of it.
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140731/us-sci-shrinking-dinosaurs-a5c053f221.html
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6196/562
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The NEWS, Kathy???? Watch the news to find out if sin exists? You’ve got to be kidding. Now get serious. Where does the concept of sin come from?
***********
And being born as a sinner doesn’t excuse your sin.
We are NOT born as sinners. According to early Judaic teachings (and maintained in modern-day Judaism), everyone is born innocent; that is, they enter the world free of sin. Throughout life, people may make choices that lead to sin, but it is not part of their inherent nature. To the Jews, sin is a violation of the divine commandments and is seen as an act (thought, word, or deed), not a “state of being” or part of the human condition. Further, God explained in Ezekiel (18:20) that sinners will be punished for their own sins, not for the sins of others (i.e., Adam and Eve).
In case you missed it, it’s the Judeo-Christian religion.
The idea that sin is inherent to all humans is something that Paul dreamed up.
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And here is a video that gives a simplified linear overview of what the findings of this study show:
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“Because he only watches cameras, Kathy ! He hasn’t a clue how they work !
You watch your computer monitor for hours. Can you tell me how the images get on your monitor ? Please feel free to be specific……..”
He’d have seen this before, he’d have suspected this possibility.. he most likely has asked all kinds of questions of people with more experience and also security companies.
I called an electrical company when my lamps were going on by the themselves looking for a technical explanation.. he didn’t have an answer for me.
LikeLike
“And being born as a sinner doesn’t excuse your sin.”
Kathy , this was the big lie that bit Christianity on the butt. During the enlightenment period it was also discovered that man alone did not create life but woman had an egg which combined with the man’s sperm created an embryo.
Scholars then realized that Jesus must have been born to sin as well since his Mother (Mary) was a human female.
To avoid further embarrassment , the Catholic Church had to invent something called, “The Immaculate Conception”
Ever heard of it ???
LikeLike
“He’d have seen this before, he’d have suspected this possibility..”
No he wouldn’t Kathy ! A Security Company technician who works on hundreds of cameras for hundreds of customers would not be surprised at this but 1 police officer watching 13 cameras most likely never had this happen before .
Were your lamps the touch type that came on when you touched them? If they only came on by turning a switch, it is highly unlikely they came on by themselves. Either someone was playing a trick on you or you were dreaming.
LikeLike
Nan,
It’s just another way of saying nobody’s perfect. We all do things which are socially unacceptable or fall short of our own personal standards. When I get more angry than I should about something, or judge someone, or am catty, or rude I feel like those are flaws. There are things in my evolutionary genetic makeup that are flaws.
I am a happy person and I do have joy in my life, but were I never born I wouldn’t know that. Whether or not I’m flawed because of my evolutionary make-up or I was born into sin, I don’t have a choice in the matter. Even your NT tells us we are born with a sin nature, Kathy. That God would punish people for being born into a condition over which they have no control is asinine.
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“Kathy , this was the big lie that bit Christianity on the butt. During the enlightenment period it was also discovered that man alone did not create life but woman had an egg which combined with the man’s sperm created an embryo. ”
You mean it didn’t tip humans off that the offspring coming OUT of the woman meant that a human female was involved? They didn’t realize this until the .. um “enlightenment”?
What is your evidence that the Church invented Jesus’ immaculate exception?
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“What is your evidence that the Church invented Jesus’ immaculate exception?”
Kathy, it’s time for you to go study before you comment any further. The Immaculate Conception was about the birth of Mary NOT the birth of Jesus.
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And it’s Conception NOT Exception LOL Geesh !!!
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kc,
I had heard of that cross-talking before within electronics. It’s sort of like when you’re listening to a radio station and can faintly hear another station at the same time. Or at least that’s the way I picture it. I’m not an electrician and didn’t know the terminology for it but that seems like the most plausible explanation for it.
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“That God would punish people for being born into a condition over which they have no control is asinine.”
Well said, Ruth !
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“I’m not an electrician and didn’t know the terminology for it but that seems like the most plausible explanation for it.”
I don’t think Kathy has any expertise in this field either, but she would like to believe the ghost explanation over a scientific one. Ugh
Thank you Ruth for using reason in your comments. 🙂
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“And being born as a sinner doesn’t excuse your sin.”
More circular reasoning I have never heard. Being born a sinner precludes any option to do otherwise.
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Thank you Ruth for using reason in your comments.
Sometimes I can be reasonable.
Now I have a question: wasn’t the immaculate conception referring to Mary’s becoming impregnated while still a virgin?
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BUT … no one is BORN a sinner! That’s the point! It’s bible double-talk.
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The Bible gives us no reason to believe that Mary was sinless. In fact, the Bible gives us every reason to believe that Jesus Christ is the only Person who was not “infected by sin and never committed a sin (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5).
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception originated out of confusion over how Jesus Christ could be born sinless if He was conceived inside of a sinful human female. The thought was that Jesus would have inherited a sinful nature from Mary had she been a sinner. In contrast to the Immaculate Conception, the biblical solution to this problem is that Jesus Himself was miraculously protected from being polluted by sin while He was inside Mary’s womb. If God was capable of protecting Mary from sin, would He not be able to protect Jesus from sin? Therefore, Mary being sinless is neither necessary nor biblical.
The Roman Catholic Church argues that the Immaculate Conception is necessary because without it, Jesus would have been the object of His own grace.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/immaculate-conception.html#ixzz3EejjEydn
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“Many people mistakenly believe that the Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ conception was most assuredly immaculate, but the Immaculate Conception does not refer to Jesus at all. The Immaculate Conception is a doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church in regards to Mary, Jesus’ mother.”
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/immaculate-conception.html#ixzz3Eel3uS9f
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“No he wouldn’t Kathy ! A Security Company technician who works on hundreds of cameras for hundreds of customers would not be surprised at this but 1 police officer watching 13 cameras most likely never had this happen before .
Were your lamps the touch type that came on when you touched them? If they only came on by turning a switch, it is highly unlikely they came on by themselves. Either someone was playing a trick on you or you were dreaming.”
Interesting.. I’m glad you asked.. here’s what happened..
There were 3 incidences within a one week period.. the first happened when I was watching tv, the lamp next to me flickered on and off twice within a few seconds time.. it was during the day so the lamp was not on. I did check the lamp to see if the turn switch was loose or in a half way position.. anything to explain what I just saw but it seemed normal.
The 2nd incident a day or two later happened when I went to check on my daughter before going to bed.. like I always did. She was about 8 or 9 at the time I think. Anyway, her lamp next to her bed was on and she was sound asleep. This NEVER happened before. When she went to bed I turned her lamp of and it stayed off.. I always left the hall light on so it wasn’t completely dark in her room. It was odd enough that I had to wake her up and ask her if she had turned her lamp on.. she was half asleep but said no. I did ask her again the next day.. I really wanted to find an explanation.
And the 3rd time was during a thunder storm, I was in my bedroom and yes, that lamp was a touch lamp.. the others were not. I always knew there could be an explanation for that one.. but with all 3 incidences, they never happened again.. and they all happened within a weeks time of each other.
And I should add that this is the home I grew up in, both of my parents passed away while living there but only my dad passed away in the home.. in the bedroom where the touch lamp went on.
Naturally, I wanted to believe that it was one or both of my parents. But, after talking to people more knowledgeable than me about Christianity and the Bible, I was told that it wasn’t them, but demonic spirits wanting to deceive me into believing it was them.
Needless to say, I’ve been paranoid ever since.. hoping that whatever it was it didn’t follow me to my other homes that I’ve lived in since then. So far so good… except for one other strange incidence that happened in the parking garage of my next home.. a condo.. there was a newspaper rack next to the elevator.. significant because my dad was a newspaper carrier for most of his working life, along with other side businesses. The door of the rack was moving back and forth.. it was lightly jiggling. And I couldn’t and still can’t figure out an explanation for that.. it wasn’t windy. The only rational explanation would be that some sort of creature was inside.. but I didn’t hear anything other than the noise of the door.
Anyway, that’s my story, and I’ve found that a good percentage of others also have a story of their own or know someone who does.
I thought it was interesting that Ruth never addressed if anyone she knew had a story when I asked her about that.
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“You mean it didn’t tip humans off that the offspring coming OUT of the woman meant that a human female was involved? They didn’t realize this until the .. um “enlightenment”?”
Karl Ernst von Baer discovered the mammalian ovum in 1827, and Edgar Allen discovered the human ovum in 1928. The fusion of spermatozoa with ova (of a starfish) was observed by Oskar Hertwig in 1876.[5][6] (wiki)
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““That God would punish people for being born into a condition over which they have no control is asinine.”
Well said, Ruth !”
Not well said.. we have free will. This is completely overlooked. We DO have control over sinful acts. And those are the sins we are punished for.. or receive salvation from.
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“Karl Ernst von Baer discovered the mammalian ovum in 1827, and Edgar Allen discovered the human ovum in 1928. The fusion of spermatozoa with ova (of a starfish) was observed by Oskar Hertwig in 1876.[5][6] (wiki)”
Again, nothing “new”.. no “enlightenment”.. it was pretty obvious that the female had something to do with procreation.
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“And the 3rd time was during a thunder storm, I was in my bedroom and yes, that lamp was a touch lamp”
OK The thunderstorm explains this one .
“The 2nd incident a day or two later happened when I went to check on my daughter before going to bed.. like I always did. She was about 8 or 9 at the time I think. Anyway, her lamp next to her bed was on and she was sound asleep. ”
You could have become distracted and forgot to turn it off. I have done this more than once. Who hasn’t ?
“first happened when I was watching tv, the lamp next to me flickered on and off twice within a few seconds time.. it was during the day so the lamp was not on.”
The switch could have actually been stuck in the middle. A vibration (big loud truck going past the house) could have triggered it to flicker.
“Naturally, I wanted to believe that it was one or both of my parents. But, after talking to people more knowledgeable than me about Christianity and the Bible, I was told that it wasn’t them, but demonic spirits wanting to deceive me into believing it was them.”
Exactly ! You WANTED to believe it was a deceased loved one.
Reason cannot convince you if you WANT to believe something else.
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I thought it was interesting that Ruth never addressed if anyone she knew had a story when I asked her about that.
I did. I even related one of my own. That particular post downloads to my computer very slowly so I’m not going to go copy and paste my comment here.
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