It is obvious by our exchanges that we are talking past one another.
What reason is there for you to believe that I lack objectivity and honest? Moreover, why do you feel as though I’ve disrespected you when you have repeatedly denigrated my ability to reason and apply objectivity?
You began our exchanges by questioning my integrity. How is that respectful? Is it only respectful when it’s a Christian questioning the integrity of atheists? And why is it you can question the education, claims or evidence of everyone else here but when the same measuring stick is applied to you it’s jugemental?
Am I not allowed based on your claims, evidence, and education to judge whether or not you have reliable information?
I’ve ASKED you to tell me which religion has more evidence. Instead of giving me the correct answer, which is that there ISN’T one, you accuse me of not doing my homework. I’ve challenged you Ruth, and you’ve failed.. and THAT proves my point..
Failed in what regard? That I haven’t convinced you? If that is the measuring stick then I think we can call it a draw.
But I don’t believe that I have failed. Here is why: I never said any religion had better or more evidence. I simply do not believe the evidence you have presented carries any more weight than any of the others. I think they are equally false.
Which I’ve asked you all over and over.. got a better explanation?
No, you don’t. It’s the most obvious, reasonable explanation we have.
When you don’t have proof, you have to apply reason.
Let me try this again. There are many hypothesis regarding origins. Most of the scientific hypothesis propose that there was always something material rather than nothing. The reason I believe that these scientific hypothesis are better than the God hypothesis is that they are testable; meaning that if they hypothesis is wrong it is discarded and other hypothesis are tested. God as an explanation for existence is scientifically untestable with I feel makes it an inferior hypothesis. But you are right, we do have to apply logic and reason. So in the absence of proof I feel it is reasonable to conclude that no particular hypothesis, including the God hypothesis, is the best explanation for our origins.
Kathy has more than proven herself to be what she is,
a hateful liar that enjoys insulting people.
that is all she is. she has zero interest in debate, or learning.
the only thing this is about is ignorant, uneducated Kathy trying to make herself feel superior to everyone else, bashing liberals, gays, other religions.
here, let me give you an example from 4 1/2 yrs ago.
kay~ms said
March 20, 2010 at Saturday, March 20, 2010
Yeah, he told me to go away because SOMEONE lied to him and told him things about me that were just not true. My words speak for themselves and I’m going to remind him of that.. and the other person’s words speak for themselves also.
I am going to try and apeal to Steven just as I’ve tried to apeal to all of the liberals here… to be honest and admit when a valid point that opposes their view has been made. And not be another typical liberal who ignores those valid points and just continues along with their faulty views. I still have hope for him… I’ve lost hope for you all here and that is why, I think, that I’ve ventured out finally.
does that sound familiar to you? I’ve got literally thousands more of this from 6yrs of watching this bullshit drama queen fat cow sitting around on her lard ass, collecting food stamps so she can watch t.v. and bash liberals on the internet.
“There are many hypothesis regarding origins. Most of the scientific hypothesis propose that there was always something material rather than nothing. The reason I believe that these scientific hypothesis are better than the God hypothesis is that they are testable; meaning that if they hypothesis is wrong it is discarded and other hypothesis are tested. God as an explanation for existence is scientifically untestable with I feel makes it an inferior hypothesis.”
Very well said, Ruth. No doubt, Kathy won’t watch this, but I’ll post it anyway. (7 minutes)
Should any go to the about page on YT, it has several links under the video regarding the origin of life, including an excellent hour-long lecture by David Deamer presenting an overview of our current understanding.
It doesn’t actually matter to me whether its a Christian, atheist or a Hindu, a republican, a democrat, gay or straight, when it comes to how you treat someone.
Maybe its because I know what it is to be on the receiving end of cruel behaviour, at school I was a lot more sensitive than I am now, and I used to catch a bus with a group of borders that were bored.
Their entertainment involved belittling people. That’s how they got their laughs. By yelling down people, throwing things, and calling people names. Usually to affirm themselves in front of others. I think they liked the power, since they also made a point of only allowing borders to sit on the back of the bus, behind everyone, where they would abuse, and yell at people from out the wind and throw paper at the back of people.
And I didn’t even get it that bad, not really. I was just more sensitive to it. at least I could step off the bus and had a great family to go home to. Not everyone has that support, another point of reference. Some kids didn’t have that. Some kids were borders as well, they lived with the very same guys that messed with them on the bus.
The internet is like that bus for some people, they think that because they drive away from those they yell at, then they can say what they want. yell what they want.
Usually those picked on were reserved and confrontation didn’t come naturally to them. That was their crime. But hey we were kids, and people grow and change.
But it still bothers me when I see people being treated like dirt, doesn’t matter who it is that’s mistreating them. And it doesn’t matter what a person believes, no one should be treated like crap.
people here can come to there own conclusions about Kathy. There is no need to treat her like crap.
If that makes me naïve Paul, you can thank my past experiences for that.
If Kathy started writing personal attacks against you on here, then I’d feel the same way about that. mistreating and abusing someone to me is lame. It’s cheap and there is already enough of it.
by the way if your still plugging through red dead redemption, you may like this
Although from what I’ve seen its a more surreal experience, but I’m a fan of the surreal
Ryan, I feel the same way you do about the labeling and accusations of dishonesty, but I think we just have to ignore it. When I read “You lack honesty and objectivity” I translate that to “You have an opinion and so do I”. In any event, some of the discussion was beneficial and think we should just ignore the distractions.
I’m going to throw in my 2 cents on the archaeology issue.
Kathy makes the point that there is archaeological evidence that coincides with the places and people mentioned in the Bible. I agree with this. The people who wrote the Bible were aware of the surrounding practices, places and people wherein they lived. However, what we don’t have is any archaeological evidence for the miraculous claims within the Bible. This is what is in question.
Did Yahweh drown the Egyptian army in the river? There have been no discoveries of chariots although someone did fake it once. Noah’s ark has never been found. The Egyptians don’t have any record of a bloody river, mass infestations, perpetual darkness or infanticide. There are no secular contemporaries of Jesus who witnessed the period of darkness, the temple curtain rip or the mass resurrections. What we do have is a bunch of other gospels and writings that did not make it into the new testament. The gospel of Peter records the resurrection with a talking cross coming out of the tomb, but no one believes this happened.
The Code of Hammurabi records several historical people and places that are attested by archaeology, but no one believes it’s claim that the wisdom given Hammurabi is from the god Marduk.
The Egyptian Book of the Dead contains references to Egyptian cities. Do these historical references give any credence to the other claims and theology within the Book of the Dead? No, it just means that the authors knew some local geography.
The only exception on the two archaeology links Kathy gave was a claim that the walls of Jericho were found and that they had fallen outward. This runs contrary to other things I’ve read about Jericho, but perhaps this is something worth looking into. I’ll report back if I find anything interesting. Arch, do you know anything about this?
Kathy makes the point that there is archaeological evidence that coincides with the places and people mentioned in the Bible. I agree with this. The people who wrote the Bible were aware of the surrounding practices, places and people wherein they lived. However, what we don’t have is any archaeological evidence for the miraculous claims within the Bible. This is what is in question.
I agree with this. This is what I’ve been trying to say, although not so eloquently. Yes, there are places and people mentioned in the Bible that are undoubtedly historical. Does that mean that we conclude that everything contained within the Bible is historically accurate? Where we run into to trouble is that, I think, we’d expect to see archaeological evidence of those miraculous events and none has been found.
When I was a YEC I completely bought into the AIG explanations for things like the flood. Deep sea fossils found on mountain tops were evidence for the great flood. When I began to doubt and actually did learn about how the earth was formed over millions of years with tectonic plates shifting below the earth’s surface forcing large mountain ranges to form from the depths of the sea I was astonished at how absolutely uneducated I had been. I felt so stupid. Smh…
RYAN, Kathy makes personal attacks on me every day with the things she says about gay people, she fuels hate. re: gay marriage is a detriment to society and children, gays are worse than terrorists.
you have never in your life experienced the bullying that i have due to my homosexuality, NEVER!
so, anyone that makes my life difficult and miserable because they hate gays and hide behind religion to justify it, they can fucking kiss my goddamn ass, the same goes for those that support that behavior. I’ve been fighting these people all of my life. they will not defeat me.
i will defeat them by any means necessary.
of course, anyone can come to their own opinions about Kathy,
most here have already figured her out, she’s a lying troll.
the thing is, most people are well meaning and give her the benefit of the doubt,
unaware that this is just a game for her.
bullying liberals under the guise of wanting to come to some sort of understanding.
she never has any intention of debate.
it’s only about her entertainment, telling others that they are dishonest and lack logic, reason, objectivity. Kathy is a bully. bullies deserve to be bullied.
grow up! life is no fairy tale bowl of cherries sweetness and light,
if you believe in jesus you should know that already..
nothing personal against you, buddy, but it is what it is.
finished red dead, great game, just started batman arkham city, not really enjoying it as much.
???????
In fact, Portal, I believe politeness may well be one of the Seven Deadly Virtues – right up there with chastity and patience – and as we all know, virtue is it’s own punishment.
I was a big fan of Answers In Genesis. Even wanted to work for them at one point. Now, I find it amusing to read their detailed explanations of how the fossil layers were laid down during the global flood starting with small marine organisms and working up progressively to fish, then amphibians, then reptiles, then dinosaurs and then birds and mammals. They think the birds and mammals were buried last because they ran to find higher ground. Somehow the dinosaurs did not follow suit.
Paul – I liked your username over there: “kay’s-up-to-her-stupid-tricks-over-at-huffington-post” – it HAD to be you, who else could come up with a name like that?
Her every other word is “LIBERAL” – she hasn’t changed a bit. But maybe Portal can change her, if he asks his god for a miracle.
right arch, Kathy hasn’t changed a bit. she never will.
I guarantee, at some point, everyone here will come to the same conclusion and realize that Kathy is only playing games and jump off of the seemingly endless merry-go-round of miasma.
I’m not saying at all that what the other commenters here have said hasn’t been thoughtful discussion, it’s just that at some point, everyone is going to realize that answering her endless questions are not worth their time. she has had them answered again and again. she just goes from one website to the next asking the same questions and claiming that liberals can’t or won’t answer her questions. it’s stupid.
Kathy is just a miserable person with no life that wants everyone else to be as miserable.
portal, I don’t think that I will finish batman, it is too slow paced. I’m not feeling very enthusiastic.
there is a new game out called “the evil within”, made by the same guy who came up with resident evill 4, a great game. I really like the horror/survival games.
portal, there is a time and a place for everything,….
it’s called the internet.
I’m not treating people like they don’t want to be treated,
I’m treating kathy with the respect anyone that wants to deny me my basic civil rights deserves, NONE!
you many never grow up, but you will surely grow old.
Finding Truth 
Dear Kathy,
It is obvious by our exchanges that we are talking past one another.
What reason is there for you to believe that I lack objectivity and honest? Moreover, why do you feel as though I’ve disrespected you when you have repeatedly denigrated my ability to reason and apply objectivity?
You began our exchanges by questioning my integrity. How is that respectful? Is it only respectful when it’s a Christian questioning the integrity of atheists? And why is it you can question the education, claims or evidence of everyone else here but when the same measuring stick is applied to you it’s jugemental?
Am I not allowed based on your claims, evidence, and education to judge whether or not you have reliable information?
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I’ve ASKED you to tell me which religion has more evidence. Instead of giving me the correct answer, which is that there ISN’T one, you accuse me of not doing my homework. I’ve challenged you Ruth, and you’ve failed.. and THAT proves my point..
Failed in what regard? That I haven’t convinced you? If that is the measuring stick then I think we can call it a draw.
But I don’t believe that I have failed. Here is why: I never said any religion had better or more evidence. I simply do not believe the evidence you have presented carries any more weight than any of the others. I think they are equally false.
Which I’ve asked you all over and over.. got a better explanation?
No, you don’t. It’s the most obvious, reasonable explanation we have.
When you don’t have proof, you have to apply reason.
Let me try this again. There are many hypothesis regarding origins. Most of the scientific hypothesis propose that there was always something material rather than nothing. The reason I believe that these scientific hypothesis are better than the God hypothesis is that they are testable; meaning that if they hypothesis is wrong it is discarded and other hypothesis are tested. God as an explanation for existence is scientifically untestable with I feel makes it an inferior hypothesis. But you are right, we do have to apply logic and reason. So in the absence of proof I feel it is reasonable to conclude that no particular hypothesis, including the God hypothesis, is the best explanation for our origins.
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portal, you really are so naïve.
Kathy has more than proven herself to be what she is,
a hateful liar that enjoys insulting people.
that is all she is. she has zero interest in debate, or learning.
the only thing this is about is ignorant, uneducated Kathy trying to make herself feel superior to everyone else, bashing liberals, gays, other religions.
here, let me give you an example from 4 1/2 yrs ago.
kay~ms said
March 20, 2010 at Saturday, March 20, 2010
Yeah, he told me to go away because SOMEONE lied to him and told him things about me that were just not true. My words speak for themselves and I’m going to remind him of that.. and the other person’s words speak for themselves also.
I am going to try and apeal to Steven just as I’ve tried to apeal to all of the liberals here… to be honest and admit when a valid point that opposes their view has been made. And not be another typical liberal who ignores those valid points and just continues along with their faulty views. I still have hope for him… I’ve lost hope for you all here and that is why, I think, that I’ve ventured out finally.
http://tothewire.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/hollywood-liberalism-knows-no-boundries-exhibit-1-the-movie-doubt/#comment-16946
does that sound familiar to you? I’ve got literally thousands more of this from 6yrs of watching this bullshit drama queen fat cow sitting around on her lard ass, collecting food stamps so she can watch t.v. and bash liberals on the internet.
she doesn’t deserve any respect.
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“There are many hypothesis regarding origins. Most of the scientific hypothesis propose that there was always something material rather than nothing. The reason I believe that these scientific hypothesis are better than the God hypothesis is that they are testable; meaning that if they hypothesis is wrong it is discarded and other hypothesis are tested. God as an explanation for existence is scientifically untestable with I feel makes it an inferior hypothesis.”
Very well said, Ruth. No doubt, Kathy won’t watch this, but I’ll post it anyway. (7 minutes)
Should any go to the about page on YT, it has several links under the video regarding the origin of life, including an excellent hour-long lecture by David Deamer presenting an overview of our current understanding.
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Paul,
It doesn’t actually matter to me whether its a Christian, atheist or a Hindu, a republican, a democrat, gay or straight, when it comes to how you treat someone.
Maybe its because I know what it is to be on the receiving end of cruel behaviour, at school I was a lot more sensitive than I am now, and I used to catch a bus with a group of borders that were bored.
Their entertainment involved belittling people. That’s how they got their laughs. By yelling down people, throwing things, and calling people names. Usually to affirm themselves in front of others. I think they liked the power, since they also made a point of only allowing borders to sit on the back of the bus, behind everyone, where they would abuse, and yell at people from out the wind and throw paper at the back of people.
And I didn’t even get it that bad, not really. I was just more sensitive to it. at least I could step off the bus and had a great family to go home to. Not everyone has that support, another point of reference. Some kids didn’t have that. Some kids were borders as well, they lived with the very same guys that messed with them on the bus.
The internet is like that bus for some people, they think that because they drive away from those they yell at, then they can say what they want. yell what they want.
Usually those picked on were reserved and confrontation didn’t come naturally to them. That was their crime. But hey we were kids, and people grow and change.
But it still bothers me when I see people being treated like dirt, doesn’t matter who it is that’s mistreating them. And it doesn’t matter what a person believes, no one should be treated like crap.
people here can come to there own conclusions about Kathy. There is no need to treat her like crap.
If that makes me naïve Paul, you can thank my past experiences for that.
If Kathy started writing personal attacks against you on here, then I’d feel the same way about that. mistreating and abusing someone to me is lame. It’s cheap and there is already enough of it.
by the way if your still plugging through red dead redemption, you may like this
Although from what I’ve seen its a more surreal experience, but I’m a fan of the surreal
All the best man
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Ryan is still the nicest guy on the internet!
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=NCeBL_oi9ES6bM&tbnid=7PAfYztOVwGe3M:&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comicvine.com%2Fforums%2Fbattles-7%2Fgreen-hornet-vs-batman-594121%2F&ei=FC49VPjMJ8bGgwS–4JA&bvm=bv.77161500,d.eXY&psig=AFQjCNFzLc6fsnSYFDs7PRWI0sKrltQecw&ust=1413382031912942
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Ryan, I feel the same way you do about the labeling and accusations of dishonesty, but I think we just have to ignore it. When I read “You lack honesty and objectivity” I translate that to “You have an opinion and so do I”. In any event, some of the discussion was beneficial and think we should just ignore the distractions.
I’m going to throw in my 2 cents on the archaeology issue.
Kathy makes the point that there is archaeological evidence that coincides with the places and people mentioned in the Bible. I agree with this. The people who wrote the Bible were aware of the surrounding practices, places and people wherein they lived. However, what we don’t have is any archaeological evidence for the miraculous claims within the Bible. This is what is in question.
Did Yahweh drown the Egyptian army in the river? There have been no discoveries of chariots although someone did fake it once. Noah’s ark has never been found. The Egyptians don’t have any record of a bloody river, mass infestations, perpetual darkness or infanticide. There are no secular contemporaries of Jesus who witnessed the period of darkness, the temple curtain rip or the mass resurrections. What we do have is a bunch of other gospels and writings that did not make it into the new testament. The gospel of Peter records the resurrection with a talking cross coming out of the tomb, but no one believes this happened.
The Code of Hammurabi records several historical people and places that are attested by archaeology, but no one believes it’s claim that the wisdom given Hammurabi is from the god Marduk.
The Egyptian Book of the Dead contains references to Egyptian cities. Do these historical references give any credence to the other claims and theology within the Book of the Dead? No, it just means that the authors knew some local geography.
The only exception on the two archaeology links Kathy gave was a claim that the walls of Jericho were found and that they had fallen outward. This runs contrary to other things I’ve read about Jericho, but perhaps this is something worth looking into. I’ll report back if I find anything interesting. Arch, do you know anything about this?
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Warning!!! Do not click that link! That is not what I meant to post! Gah!
Ryan, that was intended to be an internet award.
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Kathy makes the point that there is archaeological evidence that coincides with the places and people mentioned in the Bible. I agree with this. The people who wrote the Bible were aware of the surrounding practices, places and people wherein they lived. However, what we don’t have is any archaeological evidence for the miraculous claims within the Bible. This is what is in question.
I agree with this. This is what I’ve been trying to say, although not so eloquently. Yes, there are places and people mentioned in the Bible that are undoubtedly historical. Does that mean that we conclude that everything contained within the Bible is historically accurate? Where we run into to trouble is that, I think, we’d expect to see archaeological evidence of those miraculous events and none has been found.
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@Dave,
When I was a YEC I completely bought into the AIG explanations for things like the flood. Deep sea fossils found on mountain tops were evidence for the great flood. When I began to doubt and actually did learn about how the earth was formed over millions of years with tectonic plates shifting below the earth’s surface forcing large mountain ranges to form from the depths of the sea I was astonished at how absolutely uneducated I had been. I felt so stupid. Smh…
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RYAN, Kathy makes personal attacks on me every day with the things she says about gay people, she fuels hate. re: gay marriage is a detriment to society and children, gays are worse than terrorists.
you have never in your life experienced the bullying that i have due to my homosexuality, NEVER!
so, anyone that makes my life difficult and miserable because they hate gays and hide behind religion to justify it, they can fucking kiss my goddamn ass, the same goes for those that support that behavior. I’ve been fighting these people all of my life. they will not defeat me.
i will defeat them by any means necessary.
of course, anyone can come to their own opinions about Kathy,
most here have already figured her out, she’s a lying troll.
the thing is, most people are well meaning and give her the benefit of the doubt,
unaware that this is just a game for her.
bullying liberals under the guise of wanting to come to some sort of understanding.
she never has any intention of debate.
it’s only about her entertainment, telling others that they are dishonest and lack logic, reason, objectivity. Kathy is a bully. bullies deserve to be bullied.
grow up! life is no fairy tale bowl of cherries sweetness and light,
if you believe in jesus you should know that already..
nothing personal against you, buddy, but it is what it is.
finished red dead, great game, just started batman arkham city, not really enjoying it as much.
???????
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“I feel like that’s a very polite way of saying, mind your own business Portal! ”
Isn’t politeness a virtue? I can’t imagine anyone being rude to you, Portal.
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Dave,
In any event, some of the discussion was beneficial and think we should just ignore the distractions.
I agree with you, I don’t think ignoring it is always the best policy
Ruth,
Thanks 🙂
Night everyone
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Don’t expect an answer soon, Ruth – Kathy doesn’t get up before noon.
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In fact, Portal, I believe politeness may well be one of the Seven Deadly Virtues – right up there with chastity and patience – and as we all know, virtue is it’s own punishment.
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@Ruth
I was a big fan of Answers In Genesis. Even wanted to work for them at one point. Now, I find it amusing to read their detailed explanations of how the fossil layers were laid down during the global flood starting with small marine organisms and working up progressively to fish, then amphibians, then reptiles, then dinosaurs and then birds and mammals. They think the birds and mammals were buried last because they ran to find higher ground. Somehow the dinosaurs did not follow suit.
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Somehow the dinosaurs did not follow suit.
Stupid dinosaurs!
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Dave, sorry should have wrote
I agree with you but* I don’t think ignoring it is always the best policy.
Paul, that sucks people treated you badly. I haven’t played arkham yet, I know there are a few out though. Arkham Origins being the follow up I think.
I have a bad habit of starting games and not finishing them 🙂 so see how it goes.
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Don’t expect an answer soon, Ruth – Kathy doesn’t get up before noon.
Maybe she has a job now and her shift doesn’t end until three-ish.
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Paul – I liked your username over there: “kay’s-up-to-her-stupid-tricks-over-at-huffington-post” – it HAD to be you, who else could come up with a name like that?
Her every other word is “LIBERAL” – she hasn’t changed a bit. But maybe Portal can change her, if he asks his god for a miracle.
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Arch,
I think there is also a time and place for being confrontational 🙂
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Well, if god miraculously changes Kathy, I’LL even believe in her/him/it. . 🙂
I won’t hold my breath on that one, though.
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Paul,
If treating people like I don’t want to be treated and returning hate with more hate is part of “growing up”
Then I never want to grow up…
But then again I don’t think of that as being paramount to growing up, so there you go, I guess we are working off different dictionaries 🙂
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right arch, Kathy hasn’t changed a bit. she never will.
I guarantee, at some point, everyone here will come to the same conclusion and realize that Kathy is only playing games and jump off of the seemingly endless merry-go-round of miasma.
I’m not saying at all that what the other commenters here have said hasn’t been thoughtful discussion, it’s just that at some point, everyone is going to realize that answering her endless questions are not worth their time. she has had them answered again and again. she just goes from one website to the next asking the same questions and claiming that liberals can’t or won’t answer her questions. it’s stupid.
Kathy is just a miserable person with no life that wants everyone else to be as miserable.
portal, I don’t think that I will finish batman, it is too slow paced. I’m not feeling very enthusiastic.
there is a new game out called “the evil within”, made by the same guy who came up with resident evill 4, a great game. I really like the horror/survival games.
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portal, there is a time and a place for everything,….
it’s called the internet.
I’m not treating people like they don’t want to be treated,
I’m treating kathy with the respect anyone that wants to deny me my basic civil rights deserves, NONE!
you many never grow up, but you will surely grow old.
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