“You seem to have determined that if anyone comes to different conclusions than you regarding evidence and what it points toward they are the ones who are fundamentally flawed and that you could not possibly be wrong. Am I misrepresenting you opinion of this?”
There are some instances where it’s not so clear.. but I do believe the evidence, when studied in depth does show liberal views to be faulty and wrong.
But there are other examples where there can really be no excuse for defending those views.. based on the facts. I think abortion is at the top of that list.
But in regards to the issues we’ve been debating.. ask any attorney, any scientist, if archaeological evidence of dining rooms is not evidence to support the existence of Paul and the truth of his testimony.
And, there are quantities of evidence for each religion, they are not all the same. But that’s what you are trying to “sell” in order to not have to acknowledge that Christianity has the most evidence. That’s pure dishonesty Ruth.
As I stated, I know enough of those other religions to decide they lack the evidence. I laid out a challenge for you.. you are the one who failed to follow through.. and then you make a judgment about what I’m doing wrong.. without any supportive evidence.- kathy
Kathy,
This, this right here is what I’m talking about. You never provide the supporting evidence for your claims. You claim to know about these religions and I’m asking you to provide the evidence of what you’ve studied. That isn’t asking that much.
What material have you studied with regards to those other religions? How did you come to the determination that they lack evidence?
And, there are quantities of evidence for each religion, they are not all the same. But that’s what you are trying to “sell” in order to not have to acknowledge that Christianity has the most evidence. That’s pure dishonesty Ruth.
Kathy, I’m not selling anything. You are the one trying to convince me, remember?
“What material have you studied with regards to those other religions? How did you come to the determination that they lack evidence?”
I’ve already been over this.. start with the source claims that the religions are based on.. the Bible has MANY different witnesses.. Islam has ONE.. Mormonism has ONE.. one man’s word.
Combine that with their ideologies.. Islam is not about peace.. it’s about death and hatred.. based on Muhammed’s own words.. the very person from which Islam came from. Joseph Smith taught that each man will become a god.. EQUAL with God when they die. Again based on one man’s word.
These “religions” have all the characteristics of a cult. I don’t need to learn every single detail.. to come to that conclusion. If YOU believe you need to learn each religion in depth that’s your prerogative.. I don’t need to waste my time.. what I know is more than enough.
“Is “denigration” based on honesty and truth? If so, I guess I’m guilty..” – I originally said this on Kathy 1, shortly after I’d finally seen you for what you really are, and was soundly criticized for saying it, “You wouldn’t know the truth if it slapped you in the face!”
“And, there are quantities of evidence for each religion, they are not all the same. But that’s what you are trying to “sell” in order to not have to acknowledge that Christianity has the most evidence. That’s pure dishonesty Ruth.
Kathy, I’m not selling anything. You are the one trying to convince me, remember?”
So, I assume that’s it? You’re NOT going to either give the name of another religion that has more evidence or agree that it is Christianity that has the most evidence? You’re just going to make a diversion comment and hope that it goes away.. again?
You are not a christian, you know nothing about the bible, you have never heard of Paul, God or Jesus … but you are an archaeologist and you happened to come across dining rooms in two Greek temples, what would be your conclusion?
Can you disengage yourself from you embedded beliefs long enough to answer this question from an unbiased and impartial viewpoint?
I follow God.. not gays. I want to please God.. and part of pleasing Him is to love others.. including gays. I don’t want them to be mistreated or oppressed. But, God is infinitely wiser than liberals.. He knows what is best. And redefining marriage is not what is best for the human species. There are other ways for the govt. to treat everyone equally without redefining marriage. And there are other ways to get society to be kind to everyone without changing fundamental values and morals that support, again, the human species.
“I know enough of those other religions to decide they lack the evidence.” – I’ve asked you twice, this makes thrice, which religions did you study, and what sources did you use? I guess you could say, “I laid out a challenge for you.. you are the one who failed to follow through..“
So, I assume that’s it? You’re NOT going to either give the name of another religion that has more evidence or agree that it is Christianity that has the most evidence? You’re just going to make a diversion comment and hope that it goes away.. again?
Ruth, again, THIS IS DISHONEST.
I never claimed another religion has more evidence. I just don’t agree that Christianity does either. I think they’re all equally false and falsifiable. That’s not diversion, that’s my opinion based on the evidence.
I know enough of those other religions to decide they lack the evidence.” – I’ve asked you twice, this makes thrice, which religions did you study, and what sources did you use? I guess you could say, “I laid out a challenge for you.. you are the one who failed to follow through..“
I have now asked this question twice. So that’s five times you’ve been asked this, Kathy. Are you or are you not going to be honest enough to provide the supporting evidence for your claims? Or is you claim your evidence again?
I think we’ve all cut and pasted enough of Kathy’s own comments back to her. In just about every single exchange we’ve done this. Yet she thinks she’s shown us to be dishonest. The very claim that we haven’t backed up our positions and accusations is dishonest. It’s a bald face lie.
“And just like Nate, you cannot be honest and acknowledge that Christianity has the most compelling evidence to back up it’s claimed Truth.”
You’re being dishonest. Do you recall when this has been answered? Where nate answered “Buddhism” when you demanded to have a religion named? Do you recall rejecting that answer?
do you recall when myself and others said that we didnt find any religion that had credentials of being most true in it’s claims of being divine? Surely you recall saying, “I didnt ask which was true in regard to its claims of being divine?”
When you said that I asked several times, without answer, for you to clarify how you meant “true” if not true in the sense of their divine claims. how can we answer your question again, when you haven’t clarified what it is you’re asking?
again, if martyrs, existence and a book written by 40 people over 1500 years is all you consider to be compelling evidence, then we can agree to disagree.
If you have more to add, then do so. But let’s stop this broken record. It’s sad.
clarify what you mean by “true.” because I dont see the bible as being truly from a perfect being. In fact, I think it’s false. I think it reeks of error and problems.
back it up if you like, but the same ole stale “evidences” you’ve been giving arent good ones. If you’re convinced by them, then that;s okay, there’s just no reason to continue pushing them after they’ve been discussed.
You’re dishonest. I quote you every time I write you. I’ve shown you your own words. If you really care about the discussion, then pony up and produce. but you dont.
you’re a tired old nag who wants to avoid the real issues and wallow in the silly tangential issues that only distract from the discussion. why dont you either go away, or prove me wrong and
1) add something new, like the good evidences that make christian martyrs believable.
2) explain how you mean “true.”
3) how are you qualified to judge which religion is most true? how many religions have you studied?
“ask any attorney, any scientist, if archaeological evidence of dining rooms is not evidence to support the existence of Paul and the truth of his testimony.” – they’d laugh you out of town, Kathy!
They were eating bowls of Lucky Charms for breakfast – after all, they’re “Magically Delicious” – now prove they weren’t!
“agree that it is Christianity that has the most evidence?” – Christianity has practically no evidence to support it’s claims. Name those who ever met Yeshua and wrote of his existence – and don’t bother with “Matthew,” “Mark,” “Luke” and “John,” because they are freely acknowledged by even the church as not being the anonymous authors who concocted the fables named after them.
the god of the bible doesn’t make sense when explaining our existence or the universe.
– the biblical creation story doesnt match scientific findings, so the “explanation” is explaining something that appears to be incorrect.
– genesis 1 and 2 cant agree on whether god brought birds out of the water or out of the earth.
– jesus said seeds must die before they grow – this is just false. if a seed dies, nothing grows.
– the devil is all evil, but once lived in heaven with god, or is the devil some evil, and therefore some good too?
– if the devil and his angels were kicked out of heaven, why do you think the saved wont be kicked out too, if freewill means that they will eventually choose to sin?
– jeremiah was wrong about the medes destroying babylon in chapters 50 and 51.
– matthew was wrong about Jeremiah foretelling about the 30 pieces of silver – it was zechariah.
– matthew and luke cant agree on the genealogies.
– the list is literally too long to post. the bible doesnt make sense by itself, so in what way does the god of the bible make the most sense for being the catalyst to our universe and existence?
– it’s like saying the moon is made out of cheese. and then saying that answer is the most compelling one because no one else in the room knows for sure what it is made out of.
– the bible is only a book of claims made by men, so you’re only believing what these men have told you. You dont know the moon is made of cheese or the god made the universe, you believe it is because old people wrote it down.
– your pride wont allow you to admit that, because then you’d be admitting you’re wrong. if you let go of your pride, it wouldnt be so hard for you to accept the truth. can you even admit that the bible is a collection of claims written by men?
“You’re being dishonest. Do you recall when this has been answered? Where nate answered “Buddhism” when you demanded to have a religion named? Do you recall rejecting that answer?”
It wasn’t an answer William, because Nate failed to explain WHY … he failed to give any valid evidence that supports the truth of Buddhism.. he actually tried to claim that Buddhism didn’t espouse a god therefore it had more “evidence”.. do YOU remember that?
“do you recall when myself and others said that we didnt find any religion that had credentials of being most true in it’s claims of being divine? Surely you recall saying, “I didnt ask which was true in regard to its claims of being divine?”
You aren’t making sense.. yes, I said I didn’t ask which you believed to be the most true, I asked which you believed had the most evidence.
I can’t help it if you all don’t understand how to discern. But that’s clearly what is going on here.
You don’t understand what “evidence” is. You all can’t seem to discern “evidence” from “proof”.. (they are not the same).
When you said that I asked several times, without answer, for you to clarify how you meant “true” if not true in the sense of their divine claims. how can we answer your question again, when you haven’t clarified what it is you’re asking?”
I’ve explained this to you countless times now William.. all have “evidence”.. what I’m asking you to do is WEIGH the evidence.. no matter how you all try to spin it, it does NOT all weigh the same because you don’t believe any of them are true.
You all are having a really hard time with such basic words and meanings… I can only deduce that it’s due to your pride blinding / blocking your objectivity. Which you won’t get a pass for btw.. pride is a sin .. you CAN choose otherwise.
The Jesus’ story, in all that it entails, is not original. It’s a retelling of the ancient savior mythologies that were around long before Yahweh and Jesus. It’s not an easy pill to swallow for Christians, but if they would take the time and find the courage to study outside the confines of their bible, and stop listening to hearsay from those making a living off of Christianity, they would see for themselves.
“It’s not easy to change world views. Faith has its own momentum and belief is comfortable. To restructure reality is traumatic and scary. That is why many intelligent people continue to believe.” Dan Barker, ex- evangelical pastor
Sorry Neuro, historical similarities don’t automatically make the newer stories fiction. That doesn’t explain away the documented evidence of a man named Jesus who did miracles, who had disciples, who gave their lives to testify to Him and their faith in Him as our Savior and Lord.
And it doesn’t discount the compelling evidence that supports the Truth of the Bible.
Finding Truth 
“You seem to have determined that if anyone comes to different conclusions than you regarding evidence and what it points toward they are the ones who are fundamentally flawed and that you could not possibly be wrong. Am I misrepresenting you opinion of this?”
There are some instances where it’s not so clear.. but I do believe the evidence, when studied in depth does show liberal views to be faulty and wrong.
But there are other examples where there can really be no excuse for defending those views.. based on the facts. I think abortion is at the top of that list.
But in regards to the issues we’ve been debating.. ask any attorney, any scientist, if archaeological evidence of dining rooms is not evidence to support the existence of Paul and the truth of his testimony.
And, there are quantities of evidence for each religion, they are not all the same. But that’s what you are trying to “sell” in order to not have to acknowledge that Christianity has the most evidence. That’s pure dishonesty Ruth.
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As I stated, I know enough of those other religions to decide they lack the evidence. I laid out a challenge for you.. you are the one who failed to follow through.. and then you make a judgment about what I’m doing wrong.. without any supportive evidence.- kathy
Kathy,
This, this right here is what I’m talking about. You never provide the supporting evidence for your claims. You claim to know about these religions and I’m asking you to provide the evidence of what you’ve studied. That isn’t asking that much.
What material have you studied with regards to those other religions? How did you come to the determination that they lack evidence?
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And, there are quantities of evidence for each religion, they are not all the same. But that’s what you are trying to “sell” in order to not have to acknowledge that Christianity has the most evidence. That’s pure dishonesty Ruth.
Kathy, I’m not selling anything. You are the one trying to convince me, remember?
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“What material have you studied with regards to those other religions? How did you come to the determination that they lack evidence?”
I’ve already been over this.. start with the source claims that the religions are based on.. the Bible has MANY different witnesses.. Islam has ONE.. Mormonism has ONE.. one man’s word.
Combine that with their ideologies.. Islam is not about peace.. it’s about death and hatred.. based on Muhammed’s own words.. the very person from which Islam came from. Joseph Smith taught that each man will become a god.. EQUAL with God when they die. Again based on one man’s word.
These “religions” have all the characteristics of a cult. I don’t need to learn every single detail.. to come to that conclusion. If YOU believe you need to learn each religion in depth that’s your prerogative.. I don’t need to waste my time.. what I know is more than enough.
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“Is “denigration” based on honesty and truth? If so, I guess I’m guilty..” – I originally said this on Kathy 1, shortly after I’d finally seen you for what you really are, and was soundly criticized for saying it, “You wouldn’t know the truth if it slapped you in the face!”
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“And, there are quantities of evidence for each religion, they are not all the same. But that’s what you are trying to “sell” in order to not have to acknowledge that Christianity has the most evidence. That’s pure dishonesty Ruth.
Kathy, I’m not selling anything. You are the one trying to convince me, remember?”
So, I assume that’s it? You’re NOT going to either give the name of another religion that has more evidence or agree that it is Christianity that has the most evidence? You’re just going to make a diversion comment and hope that it goes away.. again?
Ruth, again, THIS IS DISHONEST.
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Kathy, imagine this:
You are not a christian, you know nothing about the bible, you have never heard of Paul, God or Jesus … but you are an archaeologist and you happened to come across dining rooms in two Greek temples, what would be your conclusion?
Can you disengage yourself from you embedded beliefs long enough to answer this question from an unbiased and impartial viewpoint?
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And for the record..
I follow God.. not gays. I want to please God.. and part of pleasing Him is to love others.. including gays. I don’t want them to be mistreated or oppressed. But, God is infinitely wiser than liberals.. He knows what is best. And redefining marriage is not what is best for the human species. There are other ways for the govt. to treat everyone equally without redefining marriage. And there are other ways to get society to be kind to everyone without changing fundamental values and morals that support, again, the human species.
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“I know enough of those other religions to decide they lack the evidence.” – I’ve asked you twice, this makes thrice, which religions did you study, and what sources did you use? I guess you could say, “I laid out a challenge for you.. you are the one who failed to follow through..“
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So, I assume that’s it? You’re NOT going to either give the name of another religion that has more evidence or agree that it is Christianity that has the most evidence? You’re just going to make a diversion comment and hope that it goes away.. again?
Ruth, again, THIS IS DISHONEST.
I never claimed another religion has more evidence. I just don’t agree that Christianity does either. I think they’re all equally false and falsifiable. That’s not diversion, that’s my opinion based on the evidence.
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I know enough of those other religions to decide they lack the evidence.” – I’ve asked you twice, this makes thrice, which religions did you study, and what sources did you use? I guess you could say, “I laid out a challenge for you.. you are the one who failed to follow through..“
I have now asked this question twice. So that’s five times you’ve been asked this, Kathy. Are you or are you not going to be honest enough to provide the supporting evidence for your claims? Or is you claim your evidence again?
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I think we’ve all cut and pasted enough of Kathy’s own comments back to her. In just about every single exchange we’ve done this. Yet she thinks she’s shown us to be dishonest. The very claim that we haven’t backed up our positions and accusations is dishonest. It’s a bald face lie.
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Kathy,
you said:
“And just like Nate, you cannot be honest and acknowledge that Christianity has the most compelling evidence to back up it’s claimed Truth.”
You’re being dishonest. Do you recall when this has been answered? Where nate answered “Buddhism” when you demanded to have a religion named? Do you recall rejecting that answer?
do you recall when myself and others said that we didnt find any religion that had credentials of being most true in it’s claims of being divine? Surely you recall saying, “I didnt ask which was true in regard to its claims of being divine?”
When you said that I asked several times, without answer, for you to clarify how you meant “true” if not true in the sense of their divine claims. how can we answer your question again, when you haven’t clarified what it is you’re asking?
again, if martyrs, existence and a book written by 40 people over 1500 years is all you consider to be compelling evidence, then we can agree to disagree.
If you have more to add, then do so. But let’s stop this broken record. It’s sad.
clarify what you mean by “true.” because I dont see the bible as being truly from a perfect being. In fact, I think it’s false. I think it reeks of error and problems.
back it up if you like, but the same ole stale “evidences” you’ve been giving arent good ones. If you’re convinced by them, then that;s okay, there’s just no reason to continue pushing them after they’ve been discussed.
You’re dishonest. I quote you every time I write you. I’ve shown you your own words. If you really care about the discussion, then pony up and produce. but you dont.
you’re a tired old nag who wants to avoid the real issues and wallow in the silly tangential issues that only distract from the discussion. why dont you either go away, or prove me wrong and
1) add something new, like the good evidences that make christian martyrs believable.
2) explain how you mean “true.”
3) how are you qualified to judge which religion is most true? how many religions have you studied?
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…and you’re still using “liberals” in a nonsensical way…
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“ask any attorney, any scientist, if archaeological evidence of dining rooms is not evidence to support the existence of Paul and the truth of his testimony.” – they’d laugh you out of town, Kathy!
They were eating bowls of Lucky Charms for breakfast – after all, they’re “Magically Delicious” – now prove they weren’t!
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“I don’t need to waste my time.. what I know is more than enough.” – Oh Man, another Keeper! I will DEFINITELY play that one back to her!
Along with, “I know all I need to know.” and “Existence is evidence of a Creator.”
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“agree that it is Christianity that has the most evidence?” – Christianity has practically no evidence to support it’s claims. Name those who ever met Yeshua and wrote of his existence – and don’t bother with “Matthew,” “Mark,” “Luke” and “John,” because they are freely acknowledged by even the church as not being the anonymous authors who concocted the fables named after them.
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the god of the bible doesn’t make sense when explaining our existence or the universe.
– the biblical creation story doesnt match scientific findings, so the “explanation” is explaining something that appears to be incorrect.
– genesis 1 and 2 cant agree on whether god brought birds out of the water or out of the earth.
– jesus said seeds must die before they grow – this is just false. if a seed dies, nothing grows.
– the devil is all evil, but once lived in heaven with god, or is the devil some evil, and therefore some good too?
– if the devil and his angels were kicked out of heaven, why do you think the saved wont be kicked out too, if freewill means that they will eventually choose to sin?
– jeremiah was wrong about the medes destroying babylon in chapters 50 and 51.
– matthew was wrong about Jeremiah foretelling about the 30 pieces of silver – it was zechariah.
– matthew and luke cant agree on the genealogies.
– the list is literally too long to post. the bible doesnt make sense by itself, so in what way does the god of the bible make the most sense for being the catalyst to our universe and existence?
– it’s like saying the moon is made out of cheese. and then saying that answer is the most compelling one because no one else in the room knows for sure what it is made out of.
– the bible is only a book of claims made by men, so you’re only believing what these men have told you. You dont know the moon is made of cheese or the god made the universe, you believe it is because old people wrote it down.
– your pride wont allow you to admit that, because then you’d be admitting you’re wrong. if you let go of your pride, it wouldnt be so hard for you to accept the truth. can you even admit that the bible is a collection of claims written by men?
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kathy, you’re not reverse ignorant, you’re just blatantly ignorant.
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I thought she’s never leave! I’m finally caught up – now, quickly, before she comes back, I’m going to go drink my lunch —
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William,
“You’re being dishonest. Do you recall when this has been answered? Where nate answered “Buddhism” when you demanded to have a religion named? Do you recall rejecting that answer?”
It wasn’t an answer William, because Nate failed to explain WHY … he failed to give any valid evidence that supports the truth of Buddhism.. he actually tried to claim that Buddhism didn’t espouse a god therefore it had more “evidence”.. do YOU remember that?
“do you recall when myself and others said that we didnt find any religion that had credentials of being most true in it’s claims of being divine? Surely you recall saying, “I didnt ask which was true in regard to its claims of being divine?”
You aren’t making sense.. yes, I said I didn’t ask which you believed to be the most true, I asked which you believed had the most evidence.
I can’t help it if you all don’t understand how to discern. But that’s clearly what is going on here.
You don’t understand what “evidence” is. You all can’t seem to discern “evidence” from “proof”.. (they are not the same).
When you said that I asked several times, without answer, for you to clarify how you meant “true” if not true in the sense of their divine claims. how can we answer your question again, when you haven’t clarified what it is you’re asking?”
I’ve explained this to you countless times now William.. all have “evidence”.. what I’m asking you to do is WEIGH the evidence.. no matter how you all try to spin it, it does NOT all weigh the same because you don’t believe any of them are true.
You all are having a really hard time with such basic words and meanings… I can only deduce that it’s due to your pride blinding / blocking your objectivity. Which you won’t get a pass for btw.. pride is a sin .. you CAN choose otherwise.
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The Jesus’ story, in all that it entails, is not original. It’s a retelling of the ancient savior mythologies that were around long before Yahweh and Jesus. It’s not an easy pill to swallow for Christians, but if they would take the time and find the courage to study outside the confines of their bible, and stop listening to hearsay from those making a living off of Christianity, they would see for themselves.
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Neuro — you know that. I know that. Most everyone on this blog knows that.
But Kathy? She won’t even take the pill out of the bottle.
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Sorry Neuro, historical similarities don’t automatically make the newer stories fiction. That doesn’t explain away the documented evidence of a man named Jesus who did miracles, who had disciples, who gave their lives to testify to Him and their faith in Him as our Savior and Lord.
And it doesn’t discount the compelling evidence that supports the Truth of the Bible.
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I dare you!
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