Good night, Kathy, see you sometime tomorrow afternoon, when you finally drag yourself out of bed. Have you ever considered – I don’t know – maybe getting a real life?
“Deut. 32: 8-9
When Elyon divided the nations,
when he separated the sons of Adam,
he established the borders of the nations
according to the number of the sons of the gods.
Yahweh’s portion was his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance.
The entire passage seems to be speaking of Elyon, most high, splitting up the nations, giving them borders and the number of these nations was equal to the number of [fill in the blank: angels, sons of god, or sons of Israel]. What is interesting is that Yahweh is given Jacob (Israel) as his inheritance. Does it make sense to think that the most high was giving an inheritance to himself (Yahweh)? No, usually inheritances are given to a son. Whether this makes Yahweh one of the angels or one of the sons is not really important. ”
Ok, so, just as I asked earlier for other examples in the Bible of “multiple gods” that supports your claim /interpretation… and which now you dismiss those examples as meaning “false gods”, …again, I ask.. what other scripture in the Bible supports your interpretation of this. All I know of is context throughout the Bible that supports One God.
“Kathy, if you think it’s outrageous for men to be greedy, lazy or manipulative especially when they are in power.. well, I’ll just leave that up to you to decide. I don’t think we’d be hard pressed to find examples of men like that. If you don’t find it convincing, that’s fine.”
I never said that it was “outrageous” for priests to be corrupt… look at the Church today.. I just don’t see your explanation as valid.. stating that they received benefits just isn’t enough. You must believe that every church leader today is corrupt and not true believers of their faith.. just because they all receive compensation.
Kathy, interpretations are what you do when you are translating something. If you are sitting down all day copying one page of hebrew to another page of hebrew there is no need for interpretation. If you decide to change one hebrew word to another hebrew word that is a change. Early rabinic sources called these “scribal emendations”.
If the twenty reasons I gave earlier did not exist and this passage from Deuteronomy was the only problem in the Bible I would still be a Christian. Even though it is troubling it would not be enough on it’s own to persuade me. It IS troubling though and I feel like you are trying to distract from it by focusing on the other, more subtle, references.
You are trying to create a situation where my theory would not stand a chance. Either (A) They were never polytheistic and there are no traces, or (B) they were once polytheistic but they would have completely covered their tracks and left no traces.
Bob Seidensticker is a Christian apologist with Cross Examined and he agrees with most of what I’ve said in this article including the old dating for the songs of moses.
If you want to point to the context of the old testament I would remind you that there are many examples of the Israelites going to worship Baal, Asherah and some other gods. If they knew that these were false gods why would they have gone and worshiped them?
Ok, so, just as I asked earlier for other examples in the Bible of “multiple gods” that supports your claim /interpretation… and which now you dismiss those examples as meaning “false gods”, …again, I ask.. what other scripture in the Bible supports your interpretation of this. – Kathy
Ok what? Ok it looks troubling? I gave one other example from Deut. that was also changed. The other references are subtle and are sidetracking us from this passage. Can we just admit this passage is troubling?
Very few if any scholars would date the Song of Moses to the exilic period, and if they did, it would certainly not be a very tenable position. Most scholars nowadays date these large poetry blocks to the pre-monarchic period. I note on p. 129 fn.42 that the Song of the Sea in Exod 15 is dated by Frank Moore Cross earlier than the prose account in Exod 14. On page 124 of his Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic, he dates the Song of the Sea to the late twelfth or early eleventh century BCE. The Song of Deborah is similarly dated within that pre-monarchic range, as is the Song of Moses in Deuteronomy 32. Frank Moore Cross and David Noel Freedman date the song no later than the 10th century.
– Thom Stark, a Christian scholar from the Emmanuel School of Religion.
Kathy, if you think the song was sung by Moses that would also give it a very old date.
“I still don’t know what you are referencing.. I noticed you did not post
my exact words.. any particular reason for this?” – kathy
no, no, I copied and pasted your own, exact words. i even cited the date, time and thread so you or anyone can verify. The majority of my post were your own words – exactly as you typed them.
this response of your only serves to further my point.
I would encourage you to cease for awhile, and take the time to go back back and read all the threads again.
“You’re claiming that the Bible was “edited” to mislead people.. but that several parts of the Bible were left alone which would blatantly conflict with the edits that were intended to mislead people. Don’t you think they would have checked the whole Bible? It just doesn’t make sense.” – Kathy
Kathy, people aren’t perfect. You’re trying to hold people to a standard that you don’t even hold your perfect god to. Since people are fallible, it is reasonable to suggest that they made mistakes and didn’t catch all the problems when they were editing.
But, god is supposedly perfect, yet you’re fine with a few contradictions, discrepancies and scientific errors here and there?
You don’t make sense and you’re obviously devoid of objectivity – in your own words.
“what other scripture in the Bible supports your interpretation of this.” – kathy
and like dave pointed out, the OT is riddled with instances where the israelites were constantly worshiping other gods – which means that they either thought that they were all real gods, or that they though they were all false gods (including your god) and just “worshiped” because everyone else was doing it.
“what other scripture in the Bible supports your interpretation of this.” – kathy
and like dave pointed out, the OT is riddled with instances where the israelites were constantly worshiping other gods – which means that they either thought that they were all real gods, or that they though they were all false gods (including your god) and just “worshiped” because everyone else was doing it.
This is something that is puzzling to me, William. According to the OT and Christianity Yahweh is the only God. The rest are false. And according to these Yahweh delivered (i.e. the plagues, the miraculous exodus, the passover, Elijah’s showdown, etc.) and these other gods were false, meaning they never delivered on a thing. Why would people, knowing that these other gods had never delivered on a single request, worship another god when Yahweh obviously shown himself in such miraculous ways. In Kathy’s words…makes no sense.
Sheesh, my other link did not work either. That’s what I get for waking up too early. It was raining cats and dogs outside and I was worrying about my basement flooding.
The link to the article by Bob Seidensticker should have been:
It’s also interesting to me that if elijah tried his test to baal today, with the fire raining down from heaven, the bible god would fail it too.
does this mean that the bible god is sleeping or on a journey? or does it mean he’s only as real as baal?
According to dispensationalists he’s taking an extended nap. We’re in the parenthetical period. He revealed himself completely in Jesus so he doesn’t operate too much in the real world right now. But when the parenthetical period is over – it’s on! God’ll be back in true form raining down fire and sulphur that’ll make Sodom and Gomorrah seem like a match to a single bale of hay.
It’s also interesting to me that if elijah tried his test to baal today, with the fire raining down from heaven, the bible god would fail it too.
I can’t remember if I read it here or on another blog, but there was a pastor who challenged the leader of ISIS to a showdown like this. It would be very interesting to see!
Trust Kathy to admit nothing. The problem is, Dave, that you’re trying to have an honest debate, and Kathy doesn’t know the meaning of the word. I tried that early on, with the same results.
“According to dispensationalists he’s taking an extended nap. We’re in the parenthetical period. He revealed himself completely in Jesus so he doesn’t operate too much in the real world right now. But when the parenthetical period is over – it’s on! God’ll be back in true form raining down fire and sulphur that’ll make Sodom and Gomorrah seem like a match to a single bale of hay.” – ruth
yeah, very convenient, isnt it?
dispensationalist: “yeah, god used to do miracles all the time, which proves he’s real. no other gods have done anything, which proves they’re false.
skeptic: “so will god do a miracle now or prove he’s real now?”
dispensationalist: “oh no, he doesnt have to now, because he already has done it.”
skeptic: “you saw this happen?”
dispensationalist: “oh no, it was way, way before i was ever born.”
skeptic: “then how do you know it happened?”
dispensationalist: “because god said it happened, and god cannot lie.”
skeptic: “god told you this?”
dispensationalist: “he sure did.”
skeptic: “well, i guess that’s kind of proof – god talking to directly to you. that must have been amazing for god to speak to you.”
dispensationalist: “oh, he didnt speak to me.”
skeptic: “…”
dispensationalist: “he spoke to other people, who told me…”
skeptic: “ah… can I speak to the people god spoke to?”
dispensationalist: “no, they’ve been dead for thousands of years.”
skeptic: “but I thought you said that they told you?”
dispensationalist: “and they did… in an old book they wrote… that was copied… and copied… and translated many times…”
skeptic: “so then, really, you have no way of knowing if what they wrote was true.”
dispensationalist: “well of course it’s true, they were just relaying what god said to them.”
skeptic: “but how do you know they were right?”
dispensationalist: “because god is never wrong.”
skeptic: “but people are wrong all the time. how do you know they werent wrong here.”
dispensationalist: “well, god isnt people and we know they’re right because of the miracles.”
skeptic: … the miracles that we didnt see and that dont happen now, because they done before already?”
dispensationalist: “right.”
skeptic: “right? but there’s no way to verify that.”
dispensationalist: “the miracles of the past prove that we can know it’s true today, and then when the miracles begin again in the future, that will validate the miracles of the past.”
skeptic: “I dont know what to say…”
dispensationalist: “when confronted with indisputable facts and logic, one if often left speechless.”
skeptic: “i guess facts and logic are a lot like miracles, in that we’re not seeing any…”
My guess is, Ruth, that with the Bible, you’re only getting a one-sided view of Kathy’s “Big Picture” – in a society that was largely illiterate, there were likely just as many miracle stories floating around about the other gods, which were never written down.
However, King Mesha, an Moabite and worshipper of the god, Chemosh, relates in his inscription on what has become known as the Mesha Stele (or the Moabite Stone), his war with Israel, in which his troops defeated Israel and took the treasures of Yahweh/Jehovah and presented them to Chemosh:
I am Mesha, son of Chemosh-gad, king of Moab, the Dibonite. My father reigned over Moab thirty years, and I have reigned after my father. And I have built this sanctuary for Chemosh in Karchah, a sanctuary of salvation, for he saved me from all aggressors, and made me look upon all mine enemies with contempt. Omri was king of Israel, and oppressed Moab during many days, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions. His son succeeded him, and he also said, I will oppress Moab. In my days he said, Let us go, and I will see my desire upon him and his house, and Israel said, I shall destroy it for ever. Now Omri took the land of Madeba, and occupied it in his day, and in the days of his son, forty years. And Chemosh had mercy on it in my time. And I built Baal-meon and made therein the ditch, and I built Kiriathaim. And the men of Gad dwelled in the country of Ataroth from ancient times, and the king of Israel fortified Ataroth. I assaulted the wall and captured it, and killed all the warriors of the city for the well-pleasing of Chemosh and Moab, and I removed from it all the spoil, and offered it before Chemosh in Kirjath; and I placed therein the men of Siran, and the men of Mochrath. And Chemosh said to me, Go take Nebo against Israel, and I went in the night and I fought against it from the break of day till noon, and I took it: and I killed in all seven thousand men, but I did not kill the women and maidens, for I devoted them to Ashtar-Chemosh; and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh.
Guess that must have been pore old Elija’s day off —
According, even to Christianity, God’s chosen people are the Jews. Had the Jews not forsaken God, according to Christianity, the gentiles would be left out in the cold. So it was this God’s plan from the outset to have the Jews reject Jesus so us lowly gentiles could be given a shot. What freewill?
Not only that he ‘sacrificed’ most of his chosen people since, in his infinite wisdom, he had the Jews reject him. So his chosen folks are in hades while the original rejects are rejoicing in heaven.
“I will come to Iraq, Syria, any location you [Mr. al-Baghdadi] desire. We will each take an unblemished animal, cut that animal into pieces, put those pieces on wood, but not set fire to the wood. Once prepared, you have one hour’s time to call on Allah to rain down fire on your offering. If at the end of that hour Allah has still not answered your pleas, I will call upon the one true God of the Bible … not just to bring down fire on my offering, but yours as well.
If your god Allah does not answer you … you will resign as the leader of ISIS. You will retire from your life of terror. You will encourage your followers to live in peace and I will be free to return to the United States. If your god Allah answers your pleas by fire [and] my God does not, I will renounce the Christian faith, and you’re free to kill me or do whatever you like.” – bill keller.
of course we all know this cannot happen, even Kathy knows that.
I think this is a perfect way to get Kathy to admit her god’s not real.
of course Kathy will never answer any of my questions, because I always win.
but, dave, if you challenge Kathy to respond to whether or not her pastor, (and I can prove he’s her pastor), can actually perform the “miracle, it would be very interesting to see how she responds. with more bullshit, I’m sure.
anyway, I present this evidence as proof Kathy’s god does not exist.
my very first encounter with Kathy 6yrs ago was when she said her pastor bill keller was never wrong, but I proved her wrong then when I showed her where he said god told him john Kerry would beat bush and also he predicted that there would be a major terrorist attack on u.s. soil in 2008.
so, I’ve been proving Kathy to be a liar from the very 1st comment I made to her, and have been ever since.
please Dave, get Kathy to answer the question.
“Can her pastor make god send fire raining from heaven?”
Nan, Ruth, Carmen, William, Arch, get the popcorn popping, this ought to be a good show.
oh, and Kathy, gay marriage is here and there is nothing you can do about it but be jealous of all the gays getting married and no one wants you. you’re going to be all alone all of your miserable life.
Finding Truth 
Good night, Kathy, see you sometime tomorrow afternoon, when you finally drag yourself out of bed. Have you ever considered – I don’t know – maybe getting a real life?
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“Deut. 32: 8-9
When Elyon divided the nations,
when he separated the sons of Adam,
he established the borders of the nations
according to the number of the sons of the gods.
Yahweh’s portion was his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance.
The entire passage seems to be speaking of Elyon, most high, splitting up the nations, giving them borders and the number of these nations was equal to the number of [fill in the blank: angels, sons of god, or sons of Israel]. What is interesting is that Yahweh is given Jacob (Israel) as his inheritance. Does it make sense to think that the most high was giving an inheritance to himself (Yahweh)? No, usually inheritances are given to a son. Whether this makes Yahweh one of the angels or one of the sons is not really important. ”
Ok, so, just as I asked earlier for other examples in the Bible of “multiple gods” that supports your claim /interpretation… and which now you dismiss those examples as meaning “false gods”, …again, I ask.. what other scripture in the Bible supports your interpretation of this. All I know of is context throughout the Bible that supports One God.
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“Kathy, if you think it’s outrageous for men to be greedy, lazy or manipulative especially when they are in power.. well, I’ll just leave that up to you to decide. I don’t think we’d be hard pressed to find examples of men like that. If you don’t find it convincing, that’s fine.”
I never said that it was “outrageous” for priests to be corrupt… look at the Church today.. I just don’t see your explanation as valid.. stating that they received benefits just isn’t enough. You must believe that every church leader today is corrupt and not true believers of their faith.. just because they all receive compensation.
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Kathy, interpretations are what you do when you are translating something. If you are sitting down all day copying one page of hebrew to another page of hebrew there is no need for interpretation. If you decide to change one hebrew word to another hebrew word that is a change. Early rabinic sources called these “scribal emendations”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text#Scribal_emendations_-_Tikkune_Soferim
If the twenty reasons I gave earlier did not exist and this passage from Deuteronomy was the only problem in the Bible I would still be a Christian. Even though it is troubling it would not be enough on it’s own to persuade me. It IS troubling though and I feel like you are trying to distract from it by focusing on the other, more subtle, references.
You are trying to create a situation where my theory would not stand a chance. Either (A) They were never polytheistic and there are no traces, or (B) they were once polytheistic but they would have completely covered their tracks and left no traces.
Bob Seidensticker is a Christian apologist with Cross Examined and he agrees with most of what I’ve said in this article including the old dating for the songs of moses.
If you want to point to the context of the old testament I would remind you that there are many examples of the Israelites going to worship Baal, Asherah and some other gods. If they knew that these were false gods why would they have gone and worshiped them?
Ok what? Ok it looks troubling? I gave one other example from Deut. that was also changed. The other references are subtle and are sidetracking us from this passage. Can we just admit this passage is troubling?
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I want an Etch-a-Sketch for Christmas.
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I want an Etch-a-Sketch for Christmas.
Heh! 😉
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On the dating of the song of Moses:
– Thom Stark, a Christian scholar from the Emmanuel School of Religion.
Kathy, if you think the song was sung by Moses that would also give it a very old date.
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“I still don’t know what you are referencing.. I noticed you did not post
my exact words.. any particular reason for this?” – kathy
no, no, I copied and pasted your own, exact words. i even cited the date, time and thread so you or anyone can verify. The majority of my post were your own words – exactly as you typed them.
this response of your only serves to further my point.
I would encourage you to cease for awhile, and take the time to go back back and read all the threads again.
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“what other scripture in the Bible supports your interpretation of this.”
Gen 3:22 “And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil….”
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“You’re claiming that the Bible was “edited” to mislead people.. but that several parts of the Bible were left alone which would blatantly conflict with the edits that were intended to mislead people. Don’t you think they would have checked the whole Bible? It just doesn’t make sense.” – Kathy
Kathy, people aren’t perfect. You’re trying to hold people to a standard that you don’t even hold your perfect god to. Since people are fallible, it is reasonable to suggest that they made mistakes and didn’t catch all the problems when they were editing.
But, god is supposedly perfect, yet you’re fine with a few contradictions, discrepancies and scientific errors here and there?
You don’t make sense and you’re obviously devoid of objectivity – in your own words.
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“what other scripture in the Bible supports your interpretation of this.” – kathy
and like dave pointed out, the OT is riddled with instances where the israelites were constantly worshiping other gods – which means that they either thought that they were all real gods, or that they though they were all false gods (including your god) and just “worshiped” because everyone else was doing it.
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My link for scribal emendations did not work. Should have been:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text#Scribal_emendations_.E2.80.93_Tikkune_Soferim
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This is something that is puzzling to me, William. According to the OT and Christianity Yahweh is the only God. The rest are false. And according to these Yahweh delivered (i.e. the plagues, the miraculous exodus, the passover, Elijah’s showdown, etc.) and these other gods were false, meaning they never delivered on a thing. Why would people, knowing that these other gods had never delivered on a single request, worship another god when Yahweh obviously shown himself in such miraculous ways. In Kathy’s words…makes no sense.
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Sheesh, my other link did not work either. That’s what I get for waking up too early. It was raining cats and dogs outside and I was worrying about my basement flooding.
The link to the article by Bob Seidensticker should have been:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2013/02/polytheism-in-the-bible/
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ruth, yes.
It’s also interesting to me that if elijah tried his test to baal today, with the fire raining down from heaven, the bible god would fail it too.
does this mean that the bible god is sleeping or on a journey? or does it mean he’s only as real as baal?
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Take heart, Dave! At least you can DO links (says the numbskull. . . .) Good on ya!
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It’s also interesting to me that if elijah tried his test to baal today, with the fire raining down from heaven, the bible god would fail it too.
does this mean that the bible god is sleeping or on a journey? or does it mean he’s only as real as baal?
According to dispensationalists he’s taking an extended nap. We’re in the parenthetical period. He revealed himself completely in Jesus so he doesn’t operate too much in the real world right now. But when the parenthetical period is over – it’s on! God’ll be back in true form raining down fire and sulphur that’ll make Sodom and Gomorrah seem like a match to a single bale of hay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism
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I can’t remember if I read it here or on another blog, but there was a pastor who challenged the leader of ISIS to a showdown like this. It would be very interesting to see!
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“Can we just admit this passage is troubling?”
Trust Kathy to admit nothing. The problem is, Dave, that you’re trying to have an honest debate, and Kathy doesn’t know the meaning of the word. I tried that early on, with the same results.
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“I want an Etch-a-Sketch for Christmas.”
I’ll see what I can do, Zoe – but first, little girl, you have to sit on Santa’s lap. You can trust me, I used to be a priest —
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“According to dispensationalists he’s taking an extended nap. We’re in the parenthetical period. He revealed himself completely in Jesus so he doesn’t operate too much in the real world right now. But when the parenthetical period is over – it’s on! God’ll be back in true form raining down fire and sulphur that’ll make Sodom and Gomorrah seem like a match to a single bale of hay.” – ruth
yeah, very convenient, isnt it?
dispensationalist: “yeah, god used to do miracles all the time, which proves he’s real. no other gods have done anything, which proves they’re false.
skeptic: “so will god do a miracle now or prove he’s real now?”
dispensationalist: “oh no, he doesnt have to now, because he already has done it.”
skeptic: “you saw this happen?”
dispensationalist: “oh no, it was way, way before i was ever born.”
skeptic: “then how do you know it happened?”
dispensationalist: “because god said it happened, and god cannot lie.”
skeptic: “god told you this?”
dispensationalist: “he sure did.”
skeptic: “well, i guess that’s kind of proof – god talking to directly to you. that must have been amazing for god to speak to you.”
dispensationalist: “oh, he didnt speak to me.”
skeptic: “…”
dispensationalist: “he spoke to other people, who told me…”
skeptic: “ah… can I speak to the people god spoke to?”
dispensationalist: “no, they’ve been dead for thousands of years.”
skeptic: “but I thought you said that they told you?”
dispensationalist: “and they did… in an old book they wrote… that was copied… and copied… and translated many times…”
skeptic: “so then, really, you have no way of knowing if what they wrote was true.”
dispensationalist: “well of course it’s true, they were just relaying what god said to them.”
skeptic: “but how do you know they were right?”
dispensationalist: “because god is never wrong.”
skeptic: “but people are wrong all the time. how do you know they werent wrong here.”
dispensationalist: “well, god isnt people and we know they’re right because of the miracles.”
skeptic: … the miracles that we didnt see and that dont happen now, because they done before already?”
dispensationalist: “right.”
skeptic: “right? but there’s no way to verify that.”
dispensationalist: “the miracles of the past prove that we can know it’s true today, and then when the miracles begin again in the future, that will validate the miracles of the past.”
skeptic: “I dont know what to say…”
dispensationalist: “when confronted with indisputable facts and logic, one if often left speechless.”
skeptic: “i guess facts and logic are a lot like miracles, in that we’re not seeing any…”
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My guess is, Ruth, that with the Bible, you’re only getting a one-sided view of Kathy’s “Big Picture” – in a society that was largely illiterate, there were likely just as many miracle stories floating around about the other gods, which were never written down.
However, King Mesha, an Moabite and worshipper of the god, Chemosh, relates in his inscription on what has become known as the Mesha Stele (or the Moabite Stone), his war with Israel, in which his troops defeated Israel and took the treasures of Yahweh/Jehovah and presented them to Chemosh:
Guess that must have been pore old Elija’s day off —
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Here’s some more “big-picture” thinking for ya:
According, even to Christianity, God’s chosen people are the Jews. Had the Jews not forsaken God, according to Christianity, the gentiles would be left out in the cold. So it was this God’s plan from the outset to have the Jews reject Jesus so us lowly gentiles could be given a shot. What freewill?
Not only that he ‘sacrificed’ most of his chosen people since, in his infinite wisdom, he had the Jews reject him. So his chosen folks are in hades while the original rejects are rejoicing in heaven.
Sounds like a great plan to me. :/sarcasm
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It’s also interesting to me that if elijah tried his test to baal today, with the fire raining down from heaven, the bible god would fail it too.
I’m so glad that got brought up, dave. it is Kathy’s pastor that claims he can recreate this miracle, isn’t that right Kathy?
. https://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/09/06/undeniable-proof-of-the-middle-eastern-christian-god-coming-soon-3/
“I will come to Iraq, Syria, any location you [Mr. al-Baghdadi] desire. We will each take an unblemished animal, cut that animal into pieces, put those pieces on wood, but not set fire to the wood. Once prepared, you have one hour’s time to call on Allah to rain down fire on your offering. If at the end of that hour Allah has still not answered your pleas, I will call upon the one true God of the Bible … not just to bring down fire on my offering, but yours as well.
If your god Allah does not answer you … you will resign as the leader of ISIS. You will retire from your life of terror. You will encourage your followers to live in peace and I will be free to return to the United States. If your god Allah answers your pleas by fire [and] my God does not, I will renounce the Christian faith, and you’re free to kill me or do whatever you like.” – bill keller.
of course we all know this cannot happen, even Kathy knows that.
I think this is a perfect way to get Kathy to admit her god’s not real.
of course Kathy will never answer any of my questions, because I always win.
but, dave, if you challenge Kathy to respond to whether or not her pastor, (and I can prove he’s her pastor), can actually perform the “miracle, it would be very interesting to see how she responds. with more bullshit, I’m sure.
anyway, I present this evidence as proof Kathy’s god does not exist.
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my very first encounter with Kathy 6yrs ago was when she said her pastor bill keller was never wrong, but I proved her wrong then when I showed her where he said god told him john Kerry would beat bush and also he predicted that there would be a major terrorist attack on u.s. soil in 2008.
so, I’ve been proving Kathy to be a liar from the very 1st comment I made to her, and have been ever since.
please Dave, get Kathy to answer the question.
“Can her pastor make god send fire raining from heaven?”
Nan, Ruth, Carmen, William, Arch, get the popcorn popping, this ought to be a good show.
oh, and Kathy, gay marriage is here and there is nothing you can do about it but be jealous of all the gays getting married and no one wants you. you’re going to be all alone all of your miserable life.
ahahahaha ahahahaha ahahahaha ahhhhhhahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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