“does this mean that the bible god is sleeping or on a journey?”
I think you’ll find, William, as you go through the Bible from beginning to end, two things are happening: in the real world, societies are becoming more sophisticated and less gullible, and in the Bible, god is fading further and further from active participation in the events of Humans – I don’t believe that to be a coincidence.
In Genesis, he walks and talks with the First Family, even sews them clothes on the Celestial Singer. By Moses’ time, he no longer pops down to earth for walks “in the cool of the day,” but still finds time to send his proxy – his “glory” – to become a cloud of dust during the day and a pillar of fire at night, to lead the Israelis to the Sinai. Moses is also the last to see god and to have one-on-one conversations with him – in fact, the people fear direct contact with the big guy, and ask Moses for an intermediary, which ultimately became the priest, through whom, “god’s” words were transmitted.
This also represents the end of the era of tall tales, passed down orally for hundreds of generations before ultimately being written down. Of course there was still room for exaggeration, but not so much as in oral tradition – and this is where we begin to see some actual archaeological evidence that some of the events might have actually happened, more or less as the Bible says they did.
Except, of course, for the magic – there is no such thing as magic. The supernatural is merely the natural, unexplained.
You must believe that every church leader today is corrupt and not true believers of their faith.. just because they all receive compensation. – Kathy
Corrupt is too harsh of a word, but I do think modern day church leaders all push their own ideas and interpretations out to their congregations. Of course we have literacy and widespread access to shared information today so it’s not an equal comparison.
A scribe changing a text is not necessarily something to be condemned for anyway. They probably thought they were making a necessary improvement.
This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:
John: “Hi! I’m John, and this is Mary.” Mary: “Hi! We’re here to invite you to come kiss Hank’s ass with us.” Me: “Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who’s Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?” John: “If you kiss Hank’s ass, He’ll give you a million dollars; and if you don’t, He’ll kick the shit out of you.” Me: “What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?” John: “Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can’t until you kiss His ass.” Me: “That doesn’t make any sense. Why…” Mary: “Who are you to question Hank’s gift? Don’t you want a million dollars? Isn’t it worth a little kiss on the ass?” Me: “Well maybe, if it’s legit, but…” John: “Then come kiss Hank’s ass with us.” Me: “Do you kiss Hank’s ass often?” Mary: “Oh yes, all the time…” Me: “And has He given you a million dollars?” John: “Well no. You don’t actually get the money until you leave town.” Me: “So why don’t you just leave town now?” Mary: “You can’t leave until Hank tells you to, or you don’t get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you.” Me: “Do you know anyone who kissed Hank’s ass, left town, and got the million dollars?” John: “My mother kissed Hank’s ass for years. She left town last year, and I’m sure she got the money.” Me: “Haven’t you talked to her since then?” John: “Of course not, Hank doesn’t allow it.” Me: “So what makes you think He’ll actually give you the money if you’ve never talked to anyone who got the money?” Mary: “Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you’ll get a raise, maybe you’ll win a small lotto, maybe you’ll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street.” Me: “What’s that got to do with Hank?” John: “Hank has certain ‘connections.'” Me: “I’m sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game.” John: “But it’s a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don’t kiss Hank’s ass He’ll kick the shit out of you.” Me: “Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him…” Mary: “No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank.” Me: “Then how do you kiss His ass?” John: “Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl’s ass, and he passes it on.” Me: “Who’s Karl?” Mary: “A friend of ours. He’s the one who taught us all about kissing Hank’s ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times.” Me: “And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?” John: “Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here’s a copy; see for yourself.” Me: “This appears to be written on Karl’s letterhead.” Mary: “Hank didn’t have any paper.” Me: “I have a hunch that if we checked we’d find this is Karl’s handwriting.” John: “Of course, Hank dictated it.” Me: “I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?” Mary: “Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people.” Me: “I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they’re different?” Mary: “It’s what Hank wants, and Hank’s always right.” Me: “How do you figure that?” Mary: “Item 7 says ‘Everything Hank says is right.’ That’s good enough for me!” Me: “Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up.” John: “No way! Item 5 says ‘Hank dictated this list himself.’ Besides, item 2 says ‘Use alcohol in moderation,’ Item 4 says ‘Eat right,’ and item 8 says ‘Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.’ Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too.” Me: “But 9 says ‘Don’t use alcohol.’ which doesn’t quite go with item 2, and 6 says ‘The moon is made of green cheese,’ which is just plain wrong.” John: “There’s no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you’ve never been to the moon, so you can’t say for sure.” Me: “Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock…” Mary: “But they don’t know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese.” Me: “I’m not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow ‘captured’ by the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn’t make it cheese.” John: “Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!” Me: “We do?” Mary: “Of course we do, Item 7 says so.” Me: “You’re saying Hank’s always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That’s circular logic, no different than saying ‘Hank’s right because He says He’s right.'” John: “Now you’re getting it! It’s so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank’s way of thinking.” Me: “But…oh, never mind. What’s the deal with wieners?” Mary: (She blushes.) John: “Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It’s Hank’s way. Anything else is wrong.” Me: “What if I don’t have a bun?” John: “No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong.” Me: “No relish? No Mustard?” Mary: (She looks positively stricken.) John: (He’s shouting.) “There’s no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!” Me: “So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?” Mary: (Sticks her fingers in her ears.) “I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la.” John: “That’s disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that…” Me: “It’s good! I eat it all the time.” Mary: (She faints.) John: (He catches Mary.) “Well, if I’d known you were one of those I wouldn’t have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I’ll be there, counting my money and laughing. I’ll kiss Hank’s ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater.”
With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.
Now I realize why he uses it – perhaps if all of us put ourselves in Paul’s position, we’d empathize a little. You’ll find that Kathy’s non-response is indiscriminate.
OK, arch and Nan – both the story and the video are hilarious!! I’m wondering if I showed that to my class of Gr. 9’s would I get fired??? . . cackle, cackle. . .
I’m just foul mouthed,
portal hit the nail on the head when he said I was into shock value.
I’ve always been like that. I’m kind of a bad character. it’s all about art!
Kathy stopped talking to me a long time ago due to me exposing her for what she really is.
she learned a that I can dispute everything she says, learning her lesson that I am her superior. she knows I always best her.
I’ve actually tried to tone it down a bit, but when I saw Kathy saying she doesn’t want gay people mistreated or oppressed, when I know the opposite to be true.
her pastor, the miracle performing bill keller, whom she fully supports, bashes gay people everyday, calling us sick, perverted, equating gays with pedophiles and bestiality, worthy of old testament punishment. her support of him is support of these views.
this kind of hate speech can and does destroy the lives of many gay people.
I know this first hand with 55yrs experience under my belt.
oh, please, please, please, I implore all of you, ask Kathy if she believes her pastor can actually recreate Elijah’s supposed miracle. girlfriends, please!!
shock value,
back in 2005 I came down with an aids related illness that made me bedridden for nearly two years. during that time I taught myself how to make 3d animations. everything in this video I created myself, the models, the animation, the music. I made this for Halloween 2006.
William, when I said this: ““I still don’t know what you are referencing.. I noticed you did not post
my exact words.. any particular reason for this?” – Kathy
I was referring to your comment here:
“william
October 15, 2014 at 1:53 pm
“William, I see zero “waffling”.. can you be more specific? How was I trying to change it?
And what exactly does this prove anyway?” – kathy
it proves that you arent consistent or honest.
You asked for which had the most credentials for being true. Then, after many answers you claim that you weren’t asking about which was true regarding it’s divine claims, then about which was true, but about which had more evidence.
I feel like this is pretty clear.
too prideful to admit it? pride is a sin you know.”
“You asked for which had the most credentials for being true. Then, after many answers you claim that you weren’t asking about which was true regarding it’s divine claims, then about which was true, but about which had more evidence. ”
This paragraph is YOUR words.. I’ve asked you twice now.. this is the 3rd.. for MY words.. the SPECIFIC examples that show the “dishonesty” and “waffling”.
WHERE in my comments you posted with dates etc are there any contradictions?? Where is
the “dishonestly”??
he has no church but claims 2.5 million followers on the internet which is easily disproven as he only has 3,666 facebook followers and 485 twitter followers and his youtube sermons rarely have more than 100 views each.
he claims he writes his daily devotional every morning, but one can easily see that he recycles the same devotionals over every 6 months.
from his website today: ***SEPTEMBER FINANCIAL UPDATE!!! As we are now 16 days into October, we are down to just $9,000 short of covering the balance of our September shortfall for our basic internet operations, as well as the $28,000 we are behind as of the end of September for our Chicago TV contract, leaving us requiring immediately $37,000 so we can begin to work on the $65,000 we require for our basic October internet and TV operations.
*$3,900 of that $10,000 internet shortfall is critically past due and I am praying for one person who can help me insure that amount is covered TODAY! HE IS ABLE! – bill keller liveprayer 10/16/14
Kathy’s spiritual leader is the finest example of the lazy corrupt preachers that use god to make buck$$$$$$$$$$.
Finding Truth 
Hey, arch, how long do you reckon Yahweh was hanging out in space before he decided to emit the Big Bang? *grin*
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“does this mean that the bible god is sleeping or on a journey?”
I think you’ll find, William, as you go through the Bible from beginning to end, two things are happening: in the real world, societies are becoming more sophisticated and less gullible, and in the Bible, god is fading further and further from active participation in the events of Humans – I don’t believe that to be a coincidence.
In Genesis, he walks and talks with the First Family, even sews them clothes on the Celestial Singer. By Moses’ time, he no longer pops down to earth for walks “in the cool of the day,” but still finds time to send his proxy – his “glory” – to become a cloud of dust during the day and a pillar of fire at night, to lead the Israelis to the Sinai. Moses is also the last to see god and to have one-on-one conversations with him – in fact, the people fear direct contact with the big guy, and ask Moses for an intermediary, which ultimately became the priest, through whom, “god’s” words were transmitted.
This also represents the end of the era of tall tales, passed down orally for hundreds of generations before ultimately being written down. Of course there was still room for exaggeration, but not so much as in oral tradition – and this is where we begin to see some actual archaeological evidence that some of the events might have actually happened, more or less as the Bible says they did.
Except, of course, for the magic – there is no such thing as magic. The supernatural is merely the natural, unexplained.
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if you have infinity, and subtract several billions from it, what do you have? it’s still infinity.
how long did god wait?
I dont know, but I’ve been waiting over 30 years for god.
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Corrupt is too harsh of a word, but I do think modern day church leaders all push their own ideas and interpretations out to their congregations. Of course we have literacy and widespread access to shared information today so it’s not an equal comparison.
A scribe changing a text is not necessarily something to be condemned for anyway. They probably thought they were making a necessary improvement.
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and let me add, that my waiting was in no way passive. I havent been sitting idly by twiddling my thumbs.
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Paul, don’t take this the wrong way, but maybe Kathy doesn’t talk to you because of all the f-words you use on her.
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Just to clarify, I’m not judging you Paul. I don’t know anything about the history between you two.
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William, is this what you’re saying?
This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:
John: “Hi! I’m John, and this is Mary.”
Mary: “Hi! We’re here to invite you to come kiss Hank’s ass with us.”
Me: “Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who’s Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?”
John: “If you kiss Hank’s ass, He’ll give you a million dollars; and if you don’t, He’ll kick the shit out of you.”
Me: “What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?”
John: “Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can’t until you kiss His ass.”
Me: “That doesn’t make any sense. Why…”
Mary: “Who are you to question Hank’s gift? Don’t you want a million dollars? Isn’t it worth a little kiss on the ass?”
Me: “Well maybe, if it’s legit, but…”
John: “Then come kiss Hank’s ass with us.”
Me: “Do you kiss Hank’s ass often?”
Mary: “Oh yes, all the time…”
Me: “And has He given you a million dollars?”
John: “Well no. You don’t actually get the money until you leave town.”
Me: “So why don’t you just leave town now?”
Mary: “You can’t leave until Hank tells you to, or you don’t get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you.”
Me: “Do you know anyone who kissed Hank’s ass, left town, and got the million dollars?”
John: “My mother kissed Hank’s ass for years. She left town last year, and I’m sure she got the money.”
Me: “Haven’t you talked to her since then?”
John: “Of course not, Hank doesn’t allow it.”
Me: “So what makes you think He’ll actually give you the money if you’ve never talked to anyone who got the money?”
Mary: “Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you’ll get a raise, maybe you’ll win a small lotto, maybe you’ll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street.”
Me: “What’s that got to do with Hank?”
John: “Hank has certain ‘connections.'”
Me: “I’m sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game.”
John: “But it’s a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don’t kiss Hank’s ass He’ll kick the shit out of you.”
Me: “Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him…”
Mary: “No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank.”
Me: “Then how do you kiss His ass?”
John: “Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl’s ass, and he passes it on.”
Me: “Who’s Karl?”
Mary: “A friend of ours. He’s the one who taught us all about kissing Hank’s ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times.”
Me: “And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?”
John: “Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here’s a copy; see for yourself.”
Me: “This appears to be written on Karl’s letterhead.”
Mary: “Hank didn’t have any paper.”
Me: “I have a hunch that if we checked we’d find this is Karl’s handwriting.”
John: “Of course, Hank dictated it.”
Me: “I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?”
Mary: “Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people.”
Me: “I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they’re different?”
Mary: “It’s what Hank wants, and Hank’s always right.”
Me: “How do you figure that?”
Mary: “Item 7 says ‘Everything Hank says is right.’ That’s good enough for me!”
Me: “Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up.”
John: “No way! Item 5 says ‘Hank dictated this list himself.’ Besides, item 2 says ‘Use alcohol in moderation,’ Item 4 says ‘Eat right,’ and item 8 says ‘Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.’ Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too.”
Me: “But 9 says ‘Don’t use alcohol.’ which doesn’t quite go with item 2, and 6 says ‘The moon is made of green cheese,’ which is just plain wrong.”
John: “There’s no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you’ve never been to the moon, so you can’t say for sure.”
Me: “Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock…”
Mary: “But they don’t know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese.”
Me: “I’m not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow ‘captured’ by the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn’t make it cheese.”
John: “Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!”
Me: “We do?”
Mary: “Of course we do, Item 7 says so.”
Me: “You’re saying Hank’s always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That’s circular logic, no different than saying ‘Hank’s right because He says He’s right.'”
John: “Now you’re getting it! It’s so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank’s way of thinking.”
Me: “But…oh, never mind. What’s the deal with wieners?”
Mary: (She blushes.)
John: “Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It’s Hank’s way. Anything else is wrong.”
Me: “What if I don’t have a bun?”
John: “No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong.”
Me: “No relish? No Mustard?”
Mary: (She looks positively stricken.)
John: (He’s shouting.) “There’s no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!”
Me: “So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?”
Mary: (Sticks her fingers in her ears.) “I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la.”
John: “That’s disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that…”
Me: “It’s good! I eat it all the time.”
Mary: (She faints.)
John: (He catches Mary.) “Well, if I’d known you were one of those I wouldn’t have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I’ll be there, counting my money and laughing. I’ll kiss Hank’s ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater.”
With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.
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Dave, I also objected to the f-bomb.
Now I realize why he uses it – perhaps if all of us put ourselves in Paul’s position, we’d empathize a little. You’ll find that Kathy’s non-response is indiscriminate.
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Yes, Carmen, that’s true.
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Arch, the video about Hank is far more effective than the dialogue.
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“how long do you reckon Yahweh was hanging out in space before he decided to emit the Big Bang?”
Like I said to Carmen, Ruth – EVERYbody farts.
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“A scribe changing a text is not necessarily something to be condemned for anyway. They probably thought they were making a necessary improvement.”
You mean, Dave, like adding all of those extra verses to the end of the Gospel of ‘Mark’?
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OK, arch and Nan – both the story and the video are hilarious!! I’m wondering if I showed that to my class of Gr. 9’s would I get fired??? . . cackle, cackle. . .
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I’m just foul mouthed,
portal hit the nail on the head when he said I was into shock value.
I’ve always been like that. I’m kind of a bad character. it’s all about art!
Kathy stopped talking to me a long time ago due to me exposing her for what she really is.
she learned a that I can dispute everything she says, learning her lesson that I am her superior. she knows I always best her.
I’ve actually tried to tone it down a bit, but when I saw Kathy saying she doesn’t want gay people mistreated or oppressed, when I know the opposite to be true.
her pastor, the miracle performing bill keller, whom she fully supports, bashes gay people everyday, calling us sick, perverted, equating gays with pedophiles and bestiality, worthy of old testament punishment. her support of him is support of these views.
this kind of hate speech can and does destroy the lives of many gay people.
I know this first hand with 55yrs experience under my belt.
oh, please, please, please, I implore all of you, ask Kathy if she believes her pastor can actually recreate Elijah’s supposed miracle.
girlfriends, please!!
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Question, Carmen – how good is Canadian unemployment compensation –?
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shock value,
back in 2005 I came down with an aids related illness that made me bedridden for nearly two years. during that time I taught myself how to make 3d animations. everything in this video I created myself, the models, the animation, the music. I made this for Halloween 2006.
ENJOY
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yes, arch, like hank.
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wieners and buns, lol, delicious
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I can’t imagine anyone but you putting THAT together! 🙂
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William, when I said this: ““I still don’t know what you are referencing.. I noticed you did not post
my exact words.. any particular reason for this?” – Kathy
I was referring to your comment here:
“william
October 15, 2014 at 1:53 pm
“William, I see zero “waffling”.. can you be more specific? How was I trying to change it?
And what exactly does this prove anyway?” – kathy
it proves that you arent consistent or honest.
You asked for which had the most credentials for being true. Then, after many answers you claim that you weren’t asking about which was true regarding it’s divine claims, then about which was true, but about which had more evidence.
I feel like this is pretty clear.
too prideful to admit it? pride is a sin you know.”
“You asked for which had the most credentials for being true. Then, after many answers you claim that you weren’t asking about which was true regarding it’s divine claims, then about which was true, but about which had more evidence. ”
This paragraph is YOUR words.. I’ve asked you twice now.. this is the 3rd.. for MY words.. the SPECIFIC examples that show the “dishonesty” and “waffling”.
WHERE in my comments you posted with dates etc are there any contradictions?? Where is
the “dishonestly”??
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“what other scripture in the Bible supports your interpretation of this.”
Gen 3:22 “And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil….”
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.. the Trinity.
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Like I said to Carmen, Ruth – EVERYbody farts.
How much methane ya reckon that produced? The Great God of Gas.
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3 PM, Florida time, and the Beast awakens, right on schedule, and lumbers to her computer —
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and regarding lazy, corrupt church leaders of today, let’s talk about Kathy’s pastor.
he spent 3 1/2 yrs in federal prison for securities fraud and money laundering in the cayman islands under fictitious names.
he claims his piddly little website http://www.liveprayer.com/ costs 40,000$ a month to operate,
he has no church but claims 2.5 million followers on the internet which is easily disproven as he only has 3,666 facebook followers and 485 twitter followers and his youtube sermons rarely have more than 100 views each.
he claims he writes his daily devotional every morning, but one can easily see that he recycles the same devotionals over every 6 months.
from his website today:
***SEPTEMBER FINANCIAL UPDATE!!! As we are now 16 days into October, we are down to just $9,000 short of covering the balance of our September shortfall for our basic internet operations, as well as the $28,000 we are behind as of the end of September for our Chicago TV contract, leaving us requiring immediately $37,000 so we can begin to work on the $65,000 we require for our basic October internet and TV operations.
*$3,900 of that $10,000 internet shortfall is critically past due and I am praying for one person who can help me insure that amount is covered TODAY! HE IS ABLE! – bill keller liveprayer 10/16/14
Kathy’s spiritual leader is the finest example of the lazy corrupt preachers that use god to make buck$$$$$$$$$$.
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