Neuro, I’ve explained in my own words why I have the views I do.. your “studies” are propaganda for liberals who can’t or refuse to think for themselves.. instead giving blind trust to anything that has “study” attached to it.
Honestly, the only thing those who hold leftist/ liberal views can do is come up with “studies” to sway and hold their fellow liberals… and the bias is there, influencing the outcomes… I promise you.. I’ve seen it. Again, it’s the only way liberals can keep the number of followers they have, by being deceptive.
“Neuro, I’ve explained in my own words why I have the views I do.. your “studies” are propaganda for liberals who can’t or refuse to think for themselves.. instead giving blind trust to anything that has “study” attached to it.”
Nobody can be that illiterate or bigoted unless they are mentally challenged or a troll.
“I’ve explained in my own words why I have the views I do.. your “studies” are propaganda for liberals who can’t or refuse to think for themselves.. instead giving blind trust to anything that has “study” attached to it.” – kathy
kathy, this is one of your problems, you’re commenting on something you havent read. the bible even warns against doing that.
If you want to refute Neuro’s article, then read it and offer counter points to those in the study.
Do you realize that “studies” arent just things that are made up? sure, you’d be wise to look and see how the study was conducted and how they arrived at their conclusions, but being swayed by such work makes much more sense than believing a super being had some guys write a book for him – and that we should trust them or burn if we dont…
“I guess you haven’t noticed the Kathy posts? Where I defend Christianity with much success?”
Kathy, it was painful to read along because you always avoided the best points and snatched at the trivial ones. You resorted to stereotypes and character assassination rather than addressing anything of value. You kept telling everyone that you wanted to debate, but never really engaged.
Here are 20 reasons to back up my claim that Christianity is a man-made, non-divine religion. I will gladly discuss any of these topics with you. You choose:
1. Science disconfirms the Bible – Science has shown us that the universe is much older than 6000 years old. Being able to see galaxies that are millions of light years away is one example.
2. Archaeology disconfirms the Bible – After much searching no one has found any trace of the mass exodus, the ten plagues in Egypt, a large-scale Canaanite conquest or a world wide flood.
3. Contradictions in the Bible – Christianity is centered around the Bible and it’s divine message, the inconsistencies and contradictions within the Bible are evidence of it being uninspired. It is passed as a single, unified book from God, but it is just a collection of religious texts from ancient writers and should be treated as such.
4. Insufficient evidence – The miraculous events in the gospels are not mentioned in any contemporary writings and the gospels are written anonymously 40-80 years after the events may have happened. The gospels are not written in the first person, they are written like a story.
5. Failed prophecy – The most prominent failed prophecy in the Bible is Jesus’ own prediction that his second coming would occur within the lifetimes of his generation.
6. God is not involved – Good and bad things happen to both good and bad people. Terrible and horrific things occur and God does not intervene. There does not appear to be any supernatural beings meddling with us at all.
7. Hell is unjust – Infinite punishment for finite crimes is unjust and the concept of eternal torment is inconsistent with the concept of a loving God.
8. The trinity is illogical – Not only is the trinity logically impossible, but it is a later explanation given to cover the problems created by the New Testament authors.
9. Yahweh’s commanding of genocide – It makes more sense to interpret the Canaanite conquest narratives as man-made justifications rather than a divinely inspired message.
10. Transformation is not supernatural – The ability to behave properly, treat others kindly and abstain from non-healthy addictions is not something only Christians can do (not that they all do). The moral “transformation” that occurs for a new believer is something anyone can do if they want to, but for some people they get a boost from a community of caring people to keep them accountable.
11. No unity of the “Spirit” – Despite claims that the Holy Spirit is indwelling Christians and helps them discern the truth from scripture, Christians do not agree on many important doctrines and Christianity has been fractured into scores of different denominations.
12. Out-of-context prophecies – The claim that Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies in the old testament falls flat. It is clear that anyone can go back and find texts that can be interpreted to meet their needs. The gospel writers (especially whoever wrote Matthew) appear to have gone out of their way to make their stories fulfill a “prophecy”.
13. Christianity’s bloody history – The crusades, witch hunts and the inquisitions. Heretics (people with different views – gasp!) were burned at the stake. All of this was justified by select passages from the Bible such as Deuteronomy 13:7-12.
14. Faith should not be esteemed – Faith in the sense that you need to believe in something rather than seeking evidence or proof does not appeal to me at all. Without being skeptical you will end up believing all kinds of things regardless of whether they are true.
15. Unethical beliefs – I’ve been told that I should believe just to be on the safe side (Pascal’s Wager). This is selfish thinking. If I don’t have enough proof to convince honest skeptics or even myself then why should I believe just to save myself while believing that everyone else goes to hell? Beliefs should come from evidence, not from our desires.
16. Nothing unique – I have yet to see a claim made by Christians that is not paralleled by other religions. All religions claim things about personal experiences, fulfilled prophecies, miracle stories, scientific insight and superior moral values. Christian’s who claim they are superior to other religions often rely on stereotypes.
17. Outdated – The Bible is outdated and needs to be replaced. It is not a good book to base your life on. It says hardly anything about parenting. It says to stone your disobedient children or anyone who breaks the sabbath. It is not tolerant of other cultures and beliefs. It sanctions slavery. It tells you to do good things because you will get a reward. It does not treat women equally. Etc, etc.
18. Based on fear – Fear of Yahweh, fear of Satan, fear of demons, fear of punishment and most of all… fear of hell. Vain threats have been used down through the ages by cowardly men who unfortunately know how to prey on human weaknesses.
19. Birthed in superstition – The time period of the gospel writers was overflowing with superstitions. Miracle workers were commonplace along with divine prophets, martyrs and gullible believers.
20. Unfair – The idea that the creator of all men would only reveal himself to one group of people, but leave everyone else in the dark is unfair. The ancient Chinese, Egyptians, Aztecs, Native Americans and many other people groups are left out and only the tribe of Israelites were chosen to interact with the creator of the universe.
Kathy, all you’ve done is scoffed at us for believing that something can come from nothing, which is not even what I believe. While we make no claims to having all the answers to our origins you claim to know it all and somehow we are the prideful and arrogant ones.
“trolling”.. because I don’t agree with your views.. yep, that certainly *is* the liberal definition.
Kathy, there are several other Christians who comment on Nate’s blog that don’t agree with us, but can carry civil discussions without labeling everyone. UnkleE, Josh, Ryan and Brandon to name a few.
Happy Thanksgiving to you, too, Zoe (and to any other Canadians out there!) Happy weekend to all! I’m off for a feed of fish ‘n brewis (a Newfoundland dish) – you want an entertaining ‘commercial break’ – look it up! 🙂
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that requires religion.”
— Steven Weinberg —
Again, it’s the only way liberals can keep the number of followers they have, by being deceptive. – Kathy
Somehow studying reality and trying to figure it out is being deceptive, but relying on ancient texts is okay?
We could make the same type of claim about Christianity… the only way they can keep the number of followers they have is by using the fear of “hell” and brushing aside all their doubts.
“1. Science disconfirms the Bible – Science has shown us that the universe is much older than 6000 years old. Being able to see galaxies that are millions of light years away is one example.
2. Archaeology disconfirms the Bible – After much searching no one has found any trace of the mass exodus, the ten plagues in Egypt, a large-scale Canaanite conquest or a world wide flood.
1)Not all Christians agree that the Earth is only 6000 years old. That’s one interpretation of scripture, but it’s debatable.
2) Absence of evidence is not proof. On the contrary, there has been lots of archaeological evidence that supports it’s truth.
1&2 are good examples of why I haven’t bothered with your arguments… they are weak.
Present your best argument.. I’ll address that next.
1)Not all Christians agree that the Earth is only 6000 years old. That’s one interpretation of scripture, but it’s debatable.
2) Absence of evidence is not proof. On the contrary, there has been lots of archaeological evidence that supports it’s truth.
1&2 are good examples of why I haven’t bothered with your arguments… they are weak.
Present your best argument.. I’ll address that next.
On 2) Absence of evidence is not proof:
Are we looking for proof or good evidence?
Neither of your rebuttals contains any real substance. Can you provide a link to a page with this archaeological evidence? Do you have a book or an archaeologist’s website?
Also to that claim that absence of evidence is not proof: Absence of evidence for the mechanism by which evolution occurs, and absence of evidence for a first cause is not proof. If absence of evidence isn’t proof for archaeology, certainly the same should apply for origins?
Not all Christians agree that the Earth is only 6000 years old. That’s one interpretation of scripture, but it’s debatable.
So you don’t take a literal, historic view of the Bible? You do realize why Answers in Genesis clings so desperately to that date don’t you?
Absence of evidence is not proof. On the contrary, there has been lots of archaeological evidence that supports it’s truth.
It is very good evidence in the events where you would expect to find evidence. You don’t think it’s odd that nowhere in Egyptian records they relate those massive events (plagues)? or a million slaves that went missing? Do you believe in Noah’s flood? That is one of the easiest things to prove false in the Bible.
Wow. I might have to put the colander back on my head soon. If you don’t get that, you will have proved my point. There is a theory that time is an illusion and that in reality everything happens simultaneously, and you are full of pride if you don’t choose to believe it.
Eraser, tv dinner, needle, paper, diving board, covered wagon, dress, cat, fish bowl zipper. My 7th grade teacher gave us two minutes to memorize those words and I still know them these many years later.
I like cats, but both of my snails, both named Steve, died recently. I believe hiking is THE exercise for everybody and that if they don’t do it they will be punished forever. I believe it, therefore it is true.
1 tbsp paprika, 2 eggs, juice of one lime, tequila – it’s a recipe for disaster.
This is pretty much what your posts sound like to me. Effective communication involves a message, a sender, and a receiver. if the message is incoherent, the receiver cannot make use of it. Your message is incoherent, disjointed, and useless.
I suppose this one is too, but I have amused myself writing it. You are SO working against Christianity, I bet even Jesus wants you to stop.
Kathy, either the earth has been around for millions of years or it hasn’t. Which do you believe? Keep in mind that our own Milky Way galaxy is 100,000 light years across, meaning it takes light 100,000 years to travel from one side to the other. And that’s just our own galaxy! It is estimated that there are at least 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe!
Here is a quote from Answers in Genesis:
The genealogies of Genesis 5 and 11 make it clear that the creation days happened only about 6,000 years ago. It is transparent from the genealogies of Genesis 5 and 11 (which give very detailed chronological information), unlike the clearly abbreviated genealogy in Matthew 1 and other chronological information in the Bible that the Creation Week took place only about 6,000 years ago.
Finding Truth 
Neuro, I’ve explained in my own words why I have the views I do.. your “studies” are propaganda for liberals who can’t or refuse to think for themselves.. instead giving blind trust to anything that has “study” attached to it.
Honestly, the only thing those who hold leftist/ liberal views can do is come up with “studies” to sway and hold their fellow liberals… and the bias is there, influencing the outcomes… I promise you.. I’ve seen it. Again, it’s the only way liberals can keep the number of followers they have, by being deceptive.
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“Neuro, I’ve explained in my own words why I have the views I do.. your “studies” are propaganda for liberals who can’t or refuse to think for themselves.. instead giving blind trust to anything that has “study” attached to it.”
Nobody can be that illiterate or bigoted unless they are mentally challenged or a troll.
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“I’ve explained in my own words why I have the views I do.. your “studies” are propaganda for liberals who can’t or refuse to think for themselves.. instead giving blind trust to anything that has “study” attached to it.” – kathy
kathy, this is one of your problems, you’re commenting on something you havent read. the bible even warns against doing that.
If you want to refute Neuro’s article, then read it and offer counter points to those in the study.
Do you realize that “studies” arent just things that are made up? sure, you’d be wise to look and see how the study was conducted and how they arrived at their conclusions, but being swayed by such work makes much more sense than believing a super being had some guys write a book for him – and that we should trust them or burn if we dont…
If you call that rational, you’re mistaken.
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. .. . I can’t believe the use of the phrase ‘blind trust’. .. no, wait. It’s Kathy speaking.
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Scientific studies: Evidence, peer review and detailed conclusions based on the research and evidence.
Bible: Claims to speak for god, threats of eternal damnation if you dont believe those claims, doesnt hold up to all the available evidence…
which involved blind trust?
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“I guess you haven’t noticed the Kathy posts? Where I defend Christianity with much success?”
Kathy, it was painful to read along because you always avoided the best points and snatched at the trivial ones. You resorted to stereotypes and character assassination rather than addressing anything of value. You kept telling everyone that you wanted to debate, but never really engaged.
Here are 20 reasons to back up my claim that Christianity is a man-made, non-divine religion. I will gladly discuss any of these topics with you. You choose:
1. Science disconfirms the Bible – Science has shown us that the universe is much older than 6000 years old. Being able to see galaxies that are millions of light years away is one example.
2. Archaeology disconfirms the Bible – After much searching no one has found any trace of the mass exodus, the ten plagues in Egypt, a large-scale Canaanite conquest or a world wide flood.
3. Contradictions in the Bible – Christianity is centered around the Bible and it’s divine message, the inconsistencies and contradictions within the Bible are evidence of it being uninspired. It is passed as a single, unified book from God, but it is just a collection of religious texts from ancient writers and should be treated as such.
4. Insufficient evidence – The miraculous events in the gospels are not mentioned in any contemporary writings and the gospels are written anonymously 40-80 years after the events may have happened. The gospels are not written in the first person, they are written like a story.
5. Failed prophecy – The most prominent failed prophecy in the Bible is Jesus’ own prediction that his second coming would occur within the lifetimes of his generation.
6. God is not involved – Good and bad things happen to both good and bad people. Terrible and horrific things occur and God does not intervene. There does not appear to be any supernatural beings meddling with us at all.
7. Hell is unjust – Infinite punishment for finite crimes is unjust and the concept of eternal torment is inconsistent with the concept of a loving God.
8. The trinity is illogical – Not only is the trinity logically impossible, but it is a later explanation given to cover the problems created by the New Testament authors.
9. Yahweh’s commanding of genocide – It makes more sense to interpret the Canaanite conquest narratives as man-made justifications rather than a divinely inspired message.
10. Transformation is not supernatural – The ability to behave properly, treat others kindly and abstain from non-healthy addictions is not something only Christians can do (not that they all do). The moral “transformation” that occurs for a new believer is something anyone can do if they want to, but for some people they get a boost from a community of caring people to keep them accountable.
11. No unity of the “Spirit” – Despite claims that the Holy Spirit is indwelling Christians and helps them discern the truth from scripture, Christians do not agree on many important doctrines and Christianity has been fractured into scores of different denominations.
12. Out-of-context prophecies – The claim that Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies in the old testament falls flat. It is clear that anyone can go back and find texts that can be interpreted to meet their needs. The gospel writers (especially whoever wrote Matthew) appear to have gone out of their way to make their stories fulfill a “prophecy”.
13. Christianity’s bloody history – The crusades, witch hunts and the inquisitions. Heretics (people with different views – gasp!) were burned at the stake. All of this was justified by select passages from the Bible such as Deuteronomy 13:7-12.
14. Faith should not be esteemed – Faith in the sense that you need to believe in something rather than seeking evidence or proof does not appeal to me at all. Without being skeptical you will end up believing all kinds of things regardless of whether they are true.
15. Unethical beliefs – I’ve been told that I should believe just to be on the safe side (Pascal’s Wager). This is selfish thinking. If I don’t have enough proof to convince honest skeptics or even myself then why should I believe just to save myself while believing that everyone else goes to hell? Beliefs should come from evidence, not from our desires.
16. Nothing unique – I have yet to see a claim made by Christians that is not paralleled by other religions. All religions claim things about personal experiences, fulfilled prophecies, miracle stories, scientific insight and superior moral values. Christian’s who claim they are superior to other religions often rely on stereotypes.
17. Outdated – The Bible is outdated and needs to be replaced. It is not a good book to base your life on. It says hardly anything about parenting. It says to stone your disobedient children or anyone who breaks the sabbath. It is not tolerant of other cultures and beliefs. It sanctions slavery. It tells you to do good things because you will get a reward. It does not treat women equally. Etc, etc.
18. Based on fear – Fear of Yahweh, fear of Satan, fear of demons, fear of punishment and most of all… fear of hell. Vain threats have been used down through the ages by cowardly men who unfortunately know how to prey on human weaknesses.
19. Birthed in superstition – The time period of the gospel writers was overflowing with superstitions. Miracle workers were commonplace along with divine prophets, martyrs and gullible believers.
20. Unfair – The idea that the creator of all men would only reveal himself to one group of people, but leave everyone else in the dark is unfair. The ancient Chinese, Egyptians, Aztecs, Native Americans and many other people groups are left out and only the tribe of Israelites were chosen to interact with the creator of the universe.
Kathy, all you’ve done is scoffed at us for believing that something can come from nothing, which is not even what I believe. While we make no claims to having all the answers to our origins you claim to know it all and somehow we are the prideful and arrogant ones.
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Happy Thanksgiving weekend Carmen. 🙂 And any other Canadians hanging around.
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Kathy, there are several other Christians who comment on Nate’s blog that don’t agree with us, but can carry civil discussions without labeling everyone. UnkleE, Josh, Ryan and Brandon to name a few.
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Zoe, Happy Thanksgiving to you and Carmen. 🙂
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Dave, very well put.
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“And liberal support of defense means when they’re on your doorstep I’m sure..” – oh, well, if you’re sure, who could doubt it?
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Actually, I’ve entertained Iraqis in my home, Iranians too.
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Happy Thanksgiving to you, too, Zoe (and to any other Canadians out there!) Happy weekend to all! I’m off for a feed of fish ‘n brewis (a Newfoundland dish) – you want an entertaining ‘commercial break’ – look it up! 🙂
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“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that requires religion.”
— Steven Weinberg —
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Somehow studying reality and trying to figure it out is being deceptive, but relying on ancient texts is okay?
We could make the same type of claim about Christianity… the only way they can keep the number of followers they have is by using the fear of “hell” and brushing aside all their doubts.
LikeLike
Kathy wrote: liberals who can’t or refuse to think for themselves.. instead giving blind trust to anything that has study attached to it.
Replace the word “liberals” with “bible-believers” and replace the word “study” with “God” … and who does it remind you of?
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Thanks Victoria. 🙂 Carmen . . . I don’t do fish.
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Ok, let’s start with these 2..
“1. Science disconfirms the Bible – Science has shown us that the universe is much older than 6000 years old. Being able to see galaxies that are millions of light years away is one example.
2. Archaeology disconfirms the Bible – After much searching no one has found any trace of the mass exodus, the ten plagues in Egypt, a large-scale Canaanite conquest or a world wide flood.
1)Not all Christians agree that the Earth is only 6000 years old. That’s one interpretation of scripture, but it’s debatable.
2) Absence of evidence is not proof. On the contrary, there has been lots of archaeological evidence that supports it’s truth.
1&2 are good examples of why I haven’t bothered with your arguments… they are weak.
Present your best argument.. I’ll address that next.
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You call that “addressing the arguments”????
C’mon Kathy, is that the best you can muster?
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1)Not all Christians agree that the Earth is only 6000 years old. That’s one interpretation of scripture, but it’s debatable.
2) Absence of evidence is not proof. On the contrary, there has been lots of archaeological evidence that supports it’s truth.
1&2 are good examples of why I haven’t bothered with your arguments… they are weak.
Present your best argument.. I’ll address that next.
On 2) Absence of evidence is not proof:
Are we looking for proof or good evidence?
Neither of your rebuttals contains any real substance. Can you provide a link to a page with this archaeological evidence? Do you have a book or an archaeologist’s website?
Also to that claim that absence of evidence is not proof: Absence of evidence for the mechanism by which evolution occurs, and absence of evidence for a first cause is not proof. If absence of evidence isn’t proof for archaeology, certainly the same should apply for origins?
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So you don’t take a literal, historic view of the Bible? You do realize why Answers in Genesis clings so desperately to that date don’t you?
It is very good evidence in the events where you would expect to find evidence. You don’t think it’s odd that nowhere in Egyptian records they relate those massive events (plagues)? or a million slaves that went missing? Do you believe in Noah’s flood? That is one of the easiest things to prove false in the Bible.
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Kathy,
Wow. I might have to put the colander back on my head soon. If you don’t get that, you will have proved my point. There is a theory that time is an illusion and that in reality everything happens simultaneously, and you are full of pride if you don’t choose to believe it.
Eraser, tv dinner, needle, paper, diving board, covered wagon, dress, cat, fish bowl zipper. My 7th grade teacher gave us two minutes to memorize those words and I still know them these many years later.
I like cats, but both of my snails, both named Steve, died recently. I believe hiking is THE exercise for everybody and that if they don’t do it they will be punished forever. I believe it, therefore it is true.
1 tbsp paprika, 2 eggs, juice of one lime, tequila – it’s a recipe for disaster.
This is pretty much what your posts sound like to me. Effective communication involves a message, a sender, and a receiver. if the message is incoherent, the receiver cannot make use of it. Your message is incoherent, disjointed, and useless.
I suppose this one is too, but I have amused myself writing it. You are SO working against Christianity, I bet even Jesus wants you to stop.
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gilese,
That whole thing made me laugh. So funny!
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Kathy, either the earth has been around for millions of years or it hasn’t. Which do you believe? Keep in mind that our own Milky Way galaxy is 100,000 light years across, meaning it takes light 100,000 years to travel from one side to the other. And that’s just our own galaxy! It is estimated that there are at least 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe!
Here is a quote from Answers in Genesis:
As you know these dates were meticulously calculated long ago by the Bishop James Ussher in the early 1600s.
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Thanks, Ruth. I became temporarily speechless, and then weird. It is better than being overly angry. Anger is a luxury I can ill afford.
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