Oops! Sorry. UnkleE made no such statement. It was Josh. Thank you Josh for your honesty and candor. I hope UnkleE and other Christians on this site will see the wisdom of your last statement.
Josh, no one is trying to attack your person. Not me.
But you say in your response we have created a caricature of a god to tear down to pieces. Now the god of the bible is the god of Jacob[Israel], Abraham and Isaac. It is there in so many places and he is hands on. Either stopping the sun for Joshua to go on a killing spree or doing it himself like in Sodom. How have we misrepresented this god?
But if you believe all this because of faith, fair enough and what we have been saying is let’s be honest. Either it is believed emotionally or there is a rationally good enough reason to believe. There is no need to claim pseudo intellectualism when at bottom it is a matter of faith.
Unsurprisingly, when called out for what could be deemed being disingenuous your responses, which I suspect are as much for you own benefit as for others, are long and convoluted
I don’t think what I wrote initially was disingenuous. I still hold that utilizing fictional characters without expressly identifying them as fictional is acceptable. I am, however, trying to back away from doing any sort of proving that Moses was an actual person, or that I can explain what is written about Jesus or what he said, or anything else I might have inferred or said I could back up while trying to make my initial point. I am trying to admit that I am coming from a place of faith that there are explanations, like I mentioned above to Gary. I am not coming from a place where I feel I can demonstrate to you or anyone that what I believe is “the truth”. And, yes, my comments are long and convoluted. That is how I think and what I think. Especially when I’m at work, my responses on here are rather fast and I am only attempting to write out what I’m thinking.
isnt it interesting that in many of these times, when the faithful or the moved look to god for answers or mercy or thanksgiving, it’s after events that god would have caused or had powers to prevent – earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, etc.
isnt also interesting that nearly none of these people can agree on who or what that god is.
Hey Mak-
I don’t know if it was you specifically. But, many here have claimed that God, if he exists, would reveal himself to everyone with no confusion or misunderstanding about who he is. This does not happen in scripture – God does not specifically reveal himself to everyone, nor does he reveal to all in a way that is unmistakeable. Many here have claimed that God, if he exists, would not allow evil, would intervene so that it didn’t happen, and so on. This does not happen in scripture. Whether he appears to intervene at times in scripture, he does not always intervene even in scripture. So, to make that claim is not to make a claim against the God of scripture. I can’t speak to whether God actually stopped the sun in order to facilitate a killing spree, or if he dropped fireballs on Sodom. Whether he did those things or not, arguing against a God who would always intervene, always reveal himself in crystal clear ways, always be saving people from evil and suffering, etc, is to argue against a God that is not revealed in scripture.
i don’t think that “GOD” is ingrained in us; some inherent propensity to believe or seek a higher power, as if that alone would prove god anyways. But I think seeking an explanation or an answer for things is. I think that “GOD” became teh catch all for the things that were impossible or difficult to find answers for.
“GOD” created an explanation that did just enough to settle curiosity that itch in the back of the mind that begs to be scratched by an answer.
A plane full of people crashes and everyone on board dies a terrible death, except, one small child survives. Christians exclaim, “Look! Its a miracle! God mercifully saved this little child!” My response is, “No, that is not a miracle. That is chance. If no one ever died in ANY plane crash…THAT would be a miracle!”
“GOD” created an explanation that did just enough to settle curiosity that itch in the back of the mind that begs to be scratched by an answer.
And, here we are in 2015 still looking for answers. Maybe we’ll have all the answers some day. But, what happens if, in 4015, we still have a lot of unexplained? The itch will probably always exist. Just my opinion.
<“No, that is not a miracle. That is chance. If no one ever died in ANY plane crash…THAT would be a miracle!”
Would it, though? Wouldn’t it just be normal if no one ever died in any plane crash? Then, if one person died, we’d have to find out why just that one person died. Always questions 🙂
“This does not happen in scripture – God does not specifically reveal himself to everyone, nor does he reveal to all in a way that is unmistakeable.”
Josh, you were doing so well when you appealed only to faith. In this statement you seem to be asking us to believe in the Christian god, as described in the Christian holy book, because for some reason the Christian holy book should be believed.
Why?
Why go to the effort to try and convince William and the rest of us of the true character of the Christian god when you have no evidence for his character or his existence other than your internal, subjective, feelings and intuition…faith as you call it, baseless superstition, as we call it? Until you can prove the Bible to be an historically reliable book whose supernatural claims are unquestioned fact, you should consider ceasing to appeal to this ancient middle-eastern holy book as an authority on truth.
josh, we recognize that the god of the bible did not reveal himself in such ways or act in such way in the bible. that’s part of the point. that same bible also makes claims about god’s character.
loving father, full of mercy, perfect, all powerful, wanting all to be saved, wanting none to perish…. yet the actions attributed to this god in this bible, contradict those claimed attributes.
what loving father, even an imperfect and limited one, would hide himself from his children, then instruct strangers to write his own children letters on his behalf, and giving them a choice; “Because I love you so much, I want you to come live with me and tend to me until i die. If you do this, you will will receive a large inheritance. If you choose not to do this. and thereby reject me, your loving father and the gift i offer, i will torture you unmercifully. Now, you decide. I love you, my darlings?”
is he a good and loving father because whoever wrote the letter said he was, or is he a bad father because of his actions?
and really, we dont point these out to criticize the father, to criticize god, but to show one more reason we dont buy the claims the authors of the bible are peddling.
“And, here we are in 2015 still looking for answers. Maybe we’ll have all the answers some day. But, what happens if, in 4015, we still have a lot of unexplained? The itch will probably always exist. Just my opinion.” – josh
very true, but also here in 2015 we now know that many of the thing sonce attributed to a deity have very natural, physical and explainable answers. maybe a god or some gods will eventually be proven, but i suspect that we will continue to learn, and that the things we learn to will continue to show more natural, physical and explainable things…
Why go to the effort to try and convince William and the rest of us of the true character of the Christian god when you have no evidence for his character or his existence
That was a specific response to Mak. And, I’m not really trying to convince you of his character. I’m just trying to point out that God isn’t presented in scripture in the way that many attack. We can all argue til the cows come home about, if God exists, what his actual character is. I feel I am fairly flexible in using scripture, and not necessarily trying to hold it over peoples’ heads (though, I certainly do sometimes). But, many critics of scripture hold it to the words it uses. If that’s the case, they shouldn’t invent that God is certain ways that he isn’t presented in scripture in order to shoot him down.
very true, but also here in 2015 we now know that many of the thing sonce attributed to a deity have very natural, physical and explainable answers. maybe a god or some gods will eventually be proven, but i suspect that we will continue to learn, and that the things we learn to will continue to show more natural, physical and explainable things…
I do agree that we will continue to learn more and more, and likely more and more things will be explainable. However, because they are explainable naturally doesn’t bother my faith. If God created nature, then why wouldn’t pretty much everything be explainable by nature?
arguing against a God who would always intervene, always reveal himself in crystal clear ways, always be saving people from evil and suffering, etc, is to argue against a God that is not revealed in scripture.
Most Christians would argue against the Islamic god this way. They’d say “god would never… expect us to kill infidels, reward us with virgins, etc.” and the Muslim could reply “You’re arguing using your own concept of God and not the God that is revealed in the Quran!”
I may not know the answer to a lot of things, but i know what it’s not.
I am fairly sure you feel certain that all other religions arent trustworthy and were more than likely created by man….
we’re in agreement.
the way you defend Christianity is the same way others defend their faith as well. good fathers dont punish their children for using good sense, or reward them for unfair rejections and attachments.
unless of course “good” isnt clearly understood.. it could mean something else.
we could try role reversal, where you explain why you dont believe in dracula or islam, and one of us tries to defend belief on such… i submit that it would look very similar similar to defenses for Christianity.
Hey Josh,
The god of the OT is shown to have favourites from the word go. In governance he would be accused of nepotism and abuse of office. Anyone who claims this god is good or anything close has not read the bible beyond Gen 1:1.
You lose me when you write
Whether he appears to intervene at times in scripture, he does not always intervene even in scripture.
What do you mean? That he only appears to intervene but doesn’t intervene?
Josh, I can’t help this but are saying that this -> I can’t speak to whether God actually stopped the sun in order to facilitate a killing spree, or if he dropped fireballs on Sodom isn’t covered in the faith you spoke of? Really Josh. Just tell me what you think.
@ Josh.
You raise the issue of faith once more. In he face of overwhelming evidence regarding the historical fiction of the Pentateuch and its obvious negative impact on the character, Jesus of Nazareth, can you please explain what exactly you have faith in, and what you base this upon?
News Flash for Christians: Security Blankets do not provide any Security
I believe that many Christians, maybe Josh, believe the Christian tall tale because it makes them feel good. It provides a sense of security: it gives them meaning and purpose to life. To give up their security blanket would be very frightening for them, therefore they cling desperately to it.
A child may feel warm, cozy, and secure wrapped up in his favorite “blankie” at night, with his head covered, unable to see the dark shadows in his room. But if something or someone is really there, that security blanket isn’t going to do him a damn bit of good to protect him.
Its time to give up the security blanket, Josh. Face the world as it is, not as you would like it to be. The truth is not as scary as you fear.
“While religious beliefs are mostly the result of parental instruction and geographic incidence, there are many subconscious, psychological, sociological and neurobiological factors that cause religious and superstitious beliefs to prosper.
Religion is mostly caused by social and psychological factors and not by any examining of the evidence or logic behind the beliefs involved. This is why skeptics often find it so hard to bring their scientific knowledge to productive use in arguments with religionists.
Psychologists, sociologists, ethnographers and scientists tend to view religious beliefs as the result of mostly normal psychological systems being applied in the wrong context. A prime example is the way we get angry with cars and computers, and shout insults at them, or the way we tend to see patterns in random behaviour such as brownian motion (our ‘hyperactive agent detection device’).
Historical investigators such as William James have found that outstanding religious innovators and leaders have frequently been epileptic, psychotic, suffered from strokes and various mental problems and nervous instability and that this often give them more command in areas of spirituality. Experiments on the Human brain have allowed us to discover many of the specific neuronal networks that can misfire to cause us to have ‘religious’ feelings and experiences.
Childhood fantasies, including an absence of death and the seemingly all-present, ever-caring and all-knowing parental figures who give us comfort, often become the basis for religious beliefs in adults. This hidden wishful-thinking mechanism feeds our ego (that “someone” cares about everything we do) and gives us consolation from death in the idea of an afterlife. Many strange things we ‘experience’ are cultural (therefore an aspect of upbringing), and once a scientific and critical understanding of them is attained, the beauty of the natural world displaces the appeal of the supernatural.
Religion, when not considered a byproduct of misapplied cognitive psychology and social factors, is self-inflicted delusion, illusion, smoke and mirrors.”
The link offers an excellent, and very comprehensive article, including studies and resources, on the causes of religious and superstitious behavior. I quoted an extract of the conclusion.
is it like a light bulb that someone believes is everlasting?
like, they flip the switch but nothing comes on… and they just know the problem could be anything except the bulb?
it’s either the switch or wiring or the socket or even their own perception… as in, maybe the bulb is working in spectrum of light invisible to me?
nothing you say and no test you perform to show them the light bulb is blown will convince them teh bulb is blown because they know the build cant break, so it must be any other possibility, even it’s imagined.
A. “look, the light bulb is blown. just replace it.”
B. “no. cant be the bulb. it’s unbreakable. it will last forever. must be something else.”
A. “typically this situation would mean the bulb is blown. just replace it and see if that works.”
B. “no. I know it;s not the bulb. It’s probably the switch. it’s the simplest explanation.”
A. “it’s not the simplest. the bulb being blown is.”
B. “not if the bulb cant blow. not if the bulb wont break.”
A. “I dont think that’s possible.”
B. “why are you being so arrogant?” the wiring could be shorting.”
A. “or the bulb may be blown.”
B. “not a chance. maybe the socket died”
A. “sockets dont die, but bulbs blow. here, i’ll replace it. If the new bulb produces light, then we’ll know it was a blown bulb.”
B. “if that happens, all it will prove is that the bulb shines in infrared or some other invisible light. because the bulb cant break. I just know this. let’s replace the switch, socket and wiring – it’s the simplest solution once you allow for the possibility of an eternal and indestructible light bulb. and until you provide that every other potential problem is wrong, you cant disprove my bulb works.”
I had never heard of this until today: How many Christians are aware that Jesus’ grave was unguarded AND unsecured the entire night after his crucifixion??? Isn’t that a huge hole in the Christian explanation for the empty tomb?? I would love to hear UnkleE explain this. Notice in this quote from Matthew chapter 27 below that the Pharisees do not ask Pilate for guards to guard the tomb until the next day after Jesus’ crucifixion, and, even though Joseph of Arimethea had rolled a great stone in front of the tomb’s door, he had not SEALED it shut!
Anyone could have stolen the body during those 12 hours!
The empty tomb “evidence” for the supernatural reanimation/resurrection of Jesus by Yahweh has a HUGE hole in it!
“When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who was also a disciple of Jesus. 58 He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus; then Pilate ordered it to be given to him. 59 So Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth 60 and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn in the rock. He then rolled a great stone to the door of the tomb and went away. 61 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were there, sitting opposite the tomb.
The next day, that is, after the day of Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate 63 and said, “Sir, we remember what that impostor said while he was still alive, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ 64 Therefore command the tomb to be made secure until the third day; otherwise his disciples may go and steal him away, and tell the people, ‘He has been raised from the dead,’ and the last deception would be worse than the first.” 65 Pilate said to them, “You have a guard[a] of soldiers; go, make it as secure as you can.”[b] 66 So they went with the guard and made the tomb secure by sealing the stone.”
—Matthew 27
“I react to the implication that people who continue to believe Jesus are somehow less than.” – I don’t think that’s the reason that they are considered “less than,” Josh, I think it’s because they are shown fact after fact that major parts of the Bible CANNOT possibly be true, yet STILL they believe. It leaves others wondering what kind of mentality can do that in the face of all of the evidence.
Finding Truth 
Oops! Sorry. UnkleE made no such statement. It was Josh. Thank you Josh for your honesty and candor. I hope UnkleE and other Christians on this site will see the wisdom of your last statement.
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Josh, no one is trying to attack your person. Not me.
But you say in your response we have created a caricature of a god to tear down to pieces. Now the god of the bible is the god of Jacob[Israel], Abraham and Isaac. It is there in so many places and he is hands on. Either stopping the sun for Joshua to go on a killing spree or doing it himself like in Sodom. How have we misrepresented this god?
But if you believe all this because of faith, fair enough and what we have been saying is let’s be honest. Either it is believed emotionally or there is a rationally good enough reason to believe. There is no need to claim pseudo intellectualism when at bottom it is a matter of faith.
LikeLike
I don’t think what I wrote initially was disingenuous. I still hold that utilizing fictional characters without expressly identifying them as fictional is acceptable. I am, however, trying to back away from doing any sort of proving that Moses was an actual person, or that I can explain what is written about Jesus or what he said, or anything else I might have inferred or said I could back up while trying to make my initial point. I am trying to admit that I am coming from a place of faith that there are explanations, like I mentioned above to Gary. I am not coming from a place where I feel I can demonstrate to you or anyone that what I believe is “the truth”. And, yes, my comments are long and convoluted. That is how I think and what I think. Especially when I’m at work, my responses on here are rather fast and I am only attempting to write out what I’m thinking.
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isnt it interesting that in many of these times, when the faithful or the moved look to god for answers or mercy or thanksgiving, it’s after events that god would have caused or had powers to prevent – earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, etc.
isnt also interesting that nearly none of these people can agree on who or what that god is.
LikeLike
Hey Mak-
I don’t know if it was you specifically. But, many here have claimed that God, if he exists, would reveal himself to everyone with no confusion or misunderstanding about who he is. This does not happen in scripture – God does not specifically reveal himself to everyone, nor does he reveal to all in a way that is unmistakeable. Many here have claimed that God, if he exists, would not allow evil, would intervene so that it didn’t happen, and so on. This does not happen in scripture. Whether he appears to intervene at times in scripture, he does not always intervene even in scripture. So, to make that claim is not to make a claim against the God of scripture. I can’t speak to whether God actually stopped the sun in order to facilitate a killing spree, or if he dropped fireballs on Sodom. Whether he did those things or not, arguing against a God who would always intervene, always reveal himself in crystal clear ways, always be saving people from evil and suffering, etc, is to argue against a God that is not revealed in scripture.
LikeLike
i don’t think that “GOD” is ingrained in us; some inherent propensity to believe or seek a higher power, as if that alone would prove god anyways. But I think seeking an explanation or an answer for things is. I think that “GOD” became teh catch all for the things that were impossible or difficult to find answers for.
“GOD” created an explanation that did just enough to settle curiosity that itch in the back of the mind that begs to be scratched by an answer.
LikeLike
You make a very good point, William.
A plane full of people crashes and everyone on board dies a terrible death, except, one small child survives. Christians exclaim, “Look! Its a miracle! God mercifully saved this little child!” My response is, “No, that is not a miracle. That is chance. If no one ever died in ANY plane crash…THAT would be a miracle!”
LikeLike
And, here we are in 2015 still looking for answers. Maybe we’ll have all the answers some day. But, what happens if, in 4015, we still have a lot of unexplained? The itch will probably always exist. Just my opinion.
LikeLike
<“No, that is not a miracle. That is chance. If no one ever died in ANY plane crash…THAT would be a miracle!”
Would it, though? Wouldn’t it just be normal if no one ever died in any plane crash? Then, if one person died, we’d have to find out why just that one person died. Always questions 🙂
LikeLike
“This does not happen in scripture – God does not specifically reveal himself to everyone, nor does he reveal to all in a way that is unmistakeable.”
Josh, you were doing so well when you appealed only to faith. In this statement you seem to be asking us to believe in the Christian god, as described in the Christian holy book, because for some reason the Christian holy book should be believed.
Why?
Why go to the effort to try and convince William and the rest of us of the true character of the Christian god when you have no evidence for his character or his existence other than your internal, subjective, feelings and intuition…faith as you call it, baseless superstition, as we call it? Until you can prove the Bible to be an historically reliable book whose supernatural claims are unquestioned fact, you should consider ceasing to appeal to this ancient middle-eastern holy book as an authority on truth.
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And I was getting so good at those blockquotes…
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josh, we recognize that the god of the bible did not reveal himself in such ways or act in such way in the bible. that’s part of the point. that same bible also makes claims about god’s character.
loving father, full of mercy, perfect, all powerful, wanting all to be saved, wanting none to perish…. yet the actions attributed to this god in this bible, contradict those claimed attributes.
what loving father, even an imperfect and limited one, would hide himself from his children, then instruct strangers to write his own children letters on his behalf, and giving them a choice; “Because I love you so much, I want you to come live with me and tend to me until i die. If you do this, you will will receive a large inheritance. If you choose not to do this. and thereby reject me, your loving father and the gift i offer, i will torture you unmercifully. Now, you decide. I love you, my darlings?”
is he a good and loving father because whoever wrote the letter said he was, or is he a bad father because of his actions?
and really, we dont point these out to criticize the father, to criticize god, but to show one more reason we dont buy the claims the authors of the bible are peddling.
LikeLike
“And, here we are in 2015 still looking for answers. Maybe we’ll have all the answers some day. But, what happens if, in 4015, we still have a lot of unexplained? The itch will probably always exist. Just my opinion.” – josh
very true, but also here in 2015 we now know that many of the thing sonce attributed to a deity have very natural, physical and explainable answers. maybe a god or some gods will eventually be proven, but i suspect that we will continue to learn, and that the things we learn to will continue to show more natural, physical and explainable things…
dont you?
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That was a specific response to Mak. And, I’m not really trying to convince you of his character. I’m just trying to point out that God isn’t presented in scripture in the way that many attack. We can all argue til the cows come home about, if God exists, what his actual character is. I feel I am fairly flexible in using scripture, and not necessarily trying to hold it over peoples’ heads (though, I certainly do sometimes). But, many critics of scripture hold it to the words it uses. If that’s the case, they shouldn’t invent that God is certain ways that he isn’t presented in scripture in order to shoot him down.
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i dont think that there will ever be a shortage of things to learn.
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I do agree that we will continue to learn more and more, and likely more and more things will be explainable. However, because they are explainable naturally doesn’t bother my faith. If God created nature, then why wouldn’t pretty much everything be explainable by nature?
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Most Christians would argue against the Islamic god this way. They’d say “god would never… expect us to kill infidels, reward us with virgins, etc.” and the Muslim could reply “You’re arguing using your own concept of God and not the God that is revealed in the Quran!”
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sure, i get that. once believe it too.
I may not know the answer to a lot of things, but i know what it’s not.
I am fairly sure you feel certain that all other religions arent trustworthy and were more than likely created by man….
we’re in agreement.
the way you defend Christianity is the same way others defend their faith as well. good fathers dont punish their children for using good sense, or reward them for unfair rejections and attachments.
unless of course “good” isnt clearly understood.. it could mean something else.
we could try role reversal, where you explain why you dont believe in dracula or islam, and one of us tries to defend belief on such… i submit that it would look very similar similar to defenses for Christianity.
LikeLike
Hey Josh,
The god of the OT is shown to have favourites from the word go. In governance he would be accused of nepotism and abuse of office. Anyone who claims this god is good or anything close has not read the bible beyond Gen 1:1.
You lose me when you write
What do you mean? That he only appears to intervene but doesn’t intervene?
Josh, I can’t help this but are saying that this -> I can’t speak to whether God actually stopped the sun in order to facilitate a killing spree, or if he dropped fireballs on Sodom isn’t covered in the faith you spoke of? Really Josh. Just tell me what you think.
LikeLike
@ Josh.
You raise the issue of faith once more. In he face of overwhelming evidence regarding the historical fiction of the Pentateuch and its obvious negative impact on the character, Jesus of Nazareth, can you please explain what exactly you have faith in, and what you base this upon?
LikeLike
News Flash for Christians: Security Blankets do not provide any Security
I believe that many Christians, maybe Josh, believe the Christian tall tale because it makes them feel good. It provides a sense of security: it gives them meaning and purpose to life. To give up their security blanket would be very frightening for them, therefore they cling desperately to it.
A child may feel warm, cozy, and secure wrapped up in his favorite “blankie” at night, with his head covered, unable to see the dark shadows in his room. But if something or someone is really there, that security blanket isn’t going to do him a damn bit of good to protect him.
Its time to give up the security blanket, Josh. Face the world as it is, not as you would like it to be. The truth is not as scary as you fear.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“While religious beliefs are mostly the result of parental instruction and geographic incidence, there are many subconscious, psychological, sociological and neurobiological factors that cause religious and superstitious beliefs to prosper.
Religion is mostly caused by social and psychological factors and not by any examining of the evidence or logic behind the beliefs involved. This is why skeptics often find it so hard to bring their scientific knowledge to productive use in arguments with religionists.
Psychologists, sociologists, ethnographers and scientists tend to view religious beliefs as the result of mostly normal psychological systems being applied in the wrong context. A prime example is the way we get angry with cars and computers, and shout insults at them, or the way we tend to see patterns in random behaviour such as brownian motion (our ‘hyperactive agent detection device’).
Historical investigators such as William James have found that outstanding religious innovators and leaders have frequently been epileptic, psychotic, suffered from strokes and various mental problems and nervous instability and that this often give them more command in areas of spirituality. Experiments on the Human brain have allowed us to discover many of the specific neuronal networks that can misfire to cause us to have ‘religious’ feelings and experiences.
Childhood fantasies, including an absence of death and the seemingly all-present, ever-caring and all-knowing parental figures who give us comfort, often become the basis for religious beliefs in adults. This hidden wishful-thinking mechanism feeds our ego (that “someone” cares about everything we do) and gives us consolation from death in the idea of an afterlife. Many strange things we ‘experience’ are cultural (therefore an aspect of upbringing), and once a scientific and critical understanding of them is attained, the beauty of the natural world displaces the appeal of the supernatural.
Religion, when not considered a byproduct of misapplied cognitive psychology and social factors, is self-inflicted delusion, illusion, smoke and mirrors.”
http://www.humanreligions.info/causes.html
The link offers an excellent, and very comprehensive article, including studies and resources, on the causes of religious and superstitious behavior. I quoted an extract of the conclusion.
LikeLiked by 1 person
is it like a light bulb that someone believes is everlasting?
like, they flip the switch but nothing comes on… and they just know the problem could be anything except the bulb?
it’s either the switch or wiring or the socket or even their own perception… as in, maybe the bulb is working in spectrum of light invisible to me?
nothing you say and no test you perform to show them the light bulb is blown will convince them teh bulb is blown because they know the build cant break, so it must be any other possibility, even it’s imagined.
A. “look, the light bulb is blown. just replace it.”
B. “no. cant be the bulb. it’s unbreakable. it will last forever. must be something else.”
A. “typically this situation would mean the bulb is blown. just replace it and see if that works.”
B. “no. I know it;s not the bulb. It’s probably the switch. it’s the simplest explanation.”
A. “it’s not the simplest. the bulb being blown is.”
B. “not if the bulb cant blow. not if the bulb wont break.”
A. “I dont think that’s possible.”
B. “why are you being so arrogant?” the wiring could be shorting.”
A. “or the bulb may be blown.”
B. “not a chance. maybe the socket died”
A. “sockets dont die, but bulbs blow. here, i’ll replace it. If the new bulb produces light, then we’ll know it was a blown bulb.”
B. “if that happens, all it will prove is that the bulb shines in infrared or some other invisible light. because the bulb cant break. I just know this. let’s replace the switch, socket and wiring – it’s the simplest solution once you allow for the possibility of an eternal and indestructible light bulb. and until you provide that every other potential problem is wrong, you cant disprove my bulb works.”
LikeLiked by 1 person
Holy Grave Robbers!
I had never heard of this until today: How many Christians are aware that Jesus’ grave was unguarded AND unsecured the entire night after his crucifixion??? Isn’t that a huge hole in the Christian explanation for the empty tomb?? I would love to hear UnkleE explain this. Notice in this quote from Matthew chapter 27 below that the Pharisees do not ask Pilate for guards to guard the tomb until the next day after Jesus’ crucifixion, and, even though Joseph of Arimethea had rolled a great stone in front of the tomb’s door, he had not SEALED it shut!
Anyone could have stolen the body during those 12 hours!
The empty tomb “evidence” for the supernatural reanimation/resurrection of Jesus by Yahweh has a HUGE hole in it!
“When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who was also a disciple of Jesus. 58 He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus; then Pilate ordered it to be given to him. 59 So Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth 60 and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn in the rock. He then rolled a great stone to the door of the tomb and went away. 61 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were there, sitting opposite the tomb.
The next day, that is, after the day of Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate 63 and said, “Sir, we remember what that impostor said while he was still alive, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ 64 Therefore command the tomb to be made secure until the third day; otherwise his disciples may go and steal him away, and tell the people, ‘He has been raised from the dead,’ and the last deception would be worse than the first.” 65 Pilate said to them, “You have a guard[a] of soldiers; go, make it as secure as you can.”[b] 66 So they went with the guard and made the tomb secure by sealing the stone.”
—Matthew 27
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“I react to the implication that people who continue to believe Jesus are somehow less than.” – I don’t think that’s the reason that they are considered “less than,” Josh, I think it’s because they are shown fact after fact that major parts of the Bible CANNOT possibly be true, yet STILL they believe. It leaves others wondering what kind of mentality can do that in the face of all of the evidence.
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