For the past few months, my wife and I have been meeting periodically with some family members to discuss our religious differences. The conversations have been interesting.
When we tried this during our deconversion six years ago, it didn’t go well. Emotions were simply way too high. This time around, we’ve all come to accept the status quo, so there’s less pressure on both sides. The conversations have gotten heated at times, but nothing like they used to. Overall, I feel like they’ve been going pretty well, though I don’t think any positions have been changed, and I don’t expect them to.
Most of you know that my wife and I once believed the Bible was completely inerrant, and this was pretty much the consensus of everyone at our congregation. The Bible’s flaws had a lot to do with our leaving Christianity, and I tend to refer to them any time I’m discussing religion with someone. But these family members have reacted to this in a way that I don’t really understand, and that’s what I want to talk through in this post.
Example 1
In one of our meetings, I suggested that we look at an example of something that I think is a contradiction in the Bible, so I pointed their attention to the two different accounts of Judas’s death. I’ll give a brief synopsis of the problems here, but if you’d like to read about it in detail, check out this post.
The gospels tell us that Judas, Jesus’s most infamous disciple, betrayed him for 30 pieces of silver. In the Gospel of Matthew, Judas brings that money back to the chief priests, because he regrets what he’s done. They refuse to take it, so he throws it at their feet, leaves, and hangs himself. There’s no indication that the priests ever found out what happened to him, but because the 30 pieces of silver are blood money (a bribe to take Jesus’s life), they decide not to put it back in the treasury. Instead, they buy a field with it and use it as a cemetery for strangers. That field comes to be called “Field of Blood,” because of the money used to buy it.
In Acts, we get a completely different story. There, Judas uses the money to buy a field for himself. Somehow, while he’s in the field, he falls, ruptures his abdomen, and bleeds to death. Again, the field comes to be called “Field of Blood,” but now it’s because Judas bled to death all over it. There’s no indication that it was used to bury strangers.
We talked about a number of the discrepancies between those two accounts, but I mostly focused on Matthew’s claim that all of this fulfilled a prophecy “spoken by the prophet Jeremiah.” The problem is that the prophecy Matthew quotes can’t be found in Jeremiah. The closest passage is in the book of Zechariah. My family members didn’t immediately know how to answer that problem, which is completely fine — it deserves research.
So in the next meeting, one of them said he had read an article where someone argues that Matthew says “spoken by the prophet Jeremiah” because Jeremiah literally spoke it, but didn’t necessarily write it down. I found that explanation really disappointing. First of all, if that were the case, why would Matthew mention it? He shouldn’t have even known about it, but we could get around that by saying that God gave him the information through revelation. The real problem is that it would be meaningless to his audience. Stating that an event fulfills a prophecy is offering a piece of evidence. It’s making the argument that this event falls neatly into God’s plan. But when the prophecy can’t be found, it ceases to be evidence. It ceases to make a point at all, unless it’s the point that I’m making: Matthew made a mistake.
But there’s an even clearer problem. The writer of Matthew didn’t just write this one section, he wrote an entire book. And it turns out that “spoken by the prophet ______” is a pretty common phrase of his. He uses it in Matthew 1:22, but goes on to quote a passage from Isaiah 7:14. In Matthew 2:17, he uses the phrase to refer to Jeremiah 31:15 (the very same prophet he refers to when talking about Judas). In Matthew 3:3, he uses the phrase to refer to Isaiah 40:3. We just found 3 examples within the first 3 chapters of Matthew. When he says “spoken by the prophet,” he still means that it was recorded as a prophecy.
These are the points I presented, but my family remained unconvinced. How is that possible?
Example 2
That same night, I offered another example. I told them that the synoptic gospels claim Jesus was crucified on Passover, but John’s gospel claims that it was the day before. Again, if you’d like more information on this one, check out this post. After we looked at all the passages, they didn’t have anything to say. Again, I get that. It’s surprising stuff to see when you think the Bible is inspired. And I also don’t expect them to suddenly change their minds. They need time to study it and think about it. So that’s how we left it.
We usually try to meet every Friday or so, but we didn’t meet again for 7 weeks. Last Friday, we finally got back together, and when I brought back up how we had left things, they said that they hadn’t had time to look into the issues surrounding the day of Jesus’s death. That simply makes no sense to me.
Again, they attend a congregation where virtually everyone there would say that the Bible is inerrant. So pointing out a potential contradiction should motivate them to go into deep-study mode. But it didn’t. Even if they aren’t bothered by the implications of a contradiction, we are. And since they believe we’re bound for an eternal Hell, you’d think that would inspire them to study the issue.
So I backtracked a bit and told them that I didn’t really understand why they wouldn’t have made time for this in 7 weeks. I suggested that perhaps they didn’t think the Bible needed to be inerrant. If that was the case, then I could see why they wouldn’t be bothered by the two examples I brought up. But they didn’t really commit to a position on inerrancy either way. I’m not sure how much they’ve thought about it before.
What’s behind this?
College football is huge down here, and these members of my family are die-hard Alabama fans. They always have been. But as much as they love Alabama, they wouldn’t pretend that Alabama is objectively the right team to pull for. Sure, they could talk about how well Alabama plays, and they could talk about how great a coach Nick Saban is, but they know that a Tennessee fan isn’t going to be “converted” to Alabama by those arguments. And those aren’t even the reasons why they’re fans to begin with. One’s love for a sports team is a subjective thing. You love them simply because you love them.
But when it comes to religious beliefs, those are truth claims. As such, they should have evidence that shows why they’re objectively true. But I’ve started to realize that many people, like my family, belong to a particular religion for the same reasons that they follow a sports team. It’s just what they know.
In these discussions, my family members only know that my wife and I have to be wrong. When we bring up issues with the Bible or Christianity, they don’t really have a response, but that doesn’t seem to bother them. When we’ve asked if they think the Bible should be inerrant or not, they don’t really say. When we ask why they believe it, they mostly appeal to how it makes them feel personally. If they had more substantial evidence, they would offer it. But they don’t believe for the same reasons that I believed. If I had been asked why I believed the Bible was inspired, I would have begun talking about its prophecies and amazing consistency. I would have been wrong, but only out of ignorance — not because I hadn’t thought about it. Truth claims require evidence.
To be fair…
This is a pretty critical post about some people that I love. While I find their outlook to be confusing and frustrating, I do appreciate that they care enough about us to pursue these discussions. My wife and I didn’t instigate them — our family did. So that’s definitely a point in their favor. I don’t expect for either of our views to change, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Right now, I don’t think they’re considering the possibility that they could be wrong. If they would be open-minded about that, then who knows where things could go? After all, the basic facts are’t all that complicated: the Bible says what it says. On the surface, it’s very clear that it has inconsistencies and inaccuracies. The only question is what that might mean. When someone says they know who the creator of the universe is and that they know his plan, they should have some way to demonstrate it. Facts matter.
Finding Truth 
Hi Julie,
Many of us who comment on Nate’s blog have been where you are, struggling to keep hold of our cherished Christian belief system as we watch it slip through our fingers. I desperately attempted to hold onto my faith for four months. During that time I desperately reached out to multiple pastors for help. Many tried. But it was too late.
Before you go down this road any further, I would suggest the following: Ask yourself which is more important to you: the comfort and security of your Christian belief system, or, the truth; no matter how cold, scary, and painful it may be. We are all different. What is right for me may not be right for you.
My father is a (very) liberal Christian. He is a universalist (everyone will be saved in the end), I have tried to discuss the evidence against Christianity with my father, but he refuses to discuss it. I once asked him if the truth is important to him. He replied, “I’m old. My faith gives me comfort and peace. I want to continue to hold onto the hope that when I die I will see your mother and my parents once again in heaven. I can’t imagine giving that up.”
As a liberal, universalist Christian, my father’s supernatural belief system is harmless. So I no longer try to “deconvert” my father. My view of conservative and moderate Christians is different, however. I believe that their supernatural beliefs are dangerous to society as a whole and must be opposed.
So even though I believe that the “person” that Christians believe speaks to them and comforts them in their heart is none other than themselves talking to an imaginary friend, I think in some circumstances it is ok for some people to maintain a belief in “Jesus in their hearts”…as long as you are not using your (imaginary?) friend to discriminate against others. You can be a follower of Jesus without adhering to all the negative conservative stuff.
I wish you peace and happiness whatever you choose.
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Gary, your father summed it up perfectly when he shared this with you: My faith gives me comfort and peace. I want to continue to hold onto the hope that when I die I will see your mother and my parents once again in heaven. I can’t imagine giving that up.
IMO, this is why so many cling to their faith. Death is a VERY scary thing and if the feelings about it can be alleviated in some way, that’s what people are going to latch onto.
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Thanks for the info, UnkleE.
I live in San Diego. The average home price here is 450K to 500K so Australia looks similar to what we see here. New Zealand looks attractive…but they just had a 7.8 earthquake last night.
I hope I’m exaggerating but is it 1933 all over again? If so, the best time to leave is now.
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Peter, I’ve often thought that pastors have it especially hard. By virtue of their role and responsibility to be strong for their flock, they don’t have the liberty to think freely or allow themselves to ask honest questions. They have way too much to lose and way too far to fall. I can’t imagine how hard the experience of deconversion has been for you. Do you have a blog where you share your story? Do you have a spouse or children that supported you during that time of spiritual transition?
Gary, I find your dad’s defense of his faith to be brave and honest. While my parents and I have always been very close all my life and we used to have great conversations, I no longer share any of these concerns or doubts with them. I don’t want to stress them out or harm their faith. They find comfort in it. I love them so why would I do anything that would hurt them? But I think it was Nate that mentioned something about that line of harmlessness being crossed when beliefs are imposed upon others. That’s why having 2 teenagers during all of this is especially challenging. Since I started this process over 20 years ago, I really thought I’d be in a more stable position by now!
I also want to make sure I clearly thank uncleE for his response to my post. Though it is probably clear that I’m a bit jaded (and worn out), I do appreciate his attempt to help. Sadly, his attitude and consideration of others who are struggling is the exception in Christian circles, at least in my experience. But just reading through old blogs and the comments on this site has been so therapeutic. I’m so grateful to be able to see so many points of view being represented in a cordial, respectful manner.
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I realize it was you, Gary, who mentioned the dangers of belief causing discrimination. Just wanted to give you credit for your words of wisdom 🙂
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Hi Julie,
Thanks for your kind words. I see a lot of grief in what you have said, and it is hard to know how to respond. Trying to answer some of your questions and doubts could just seem cold and mechanical, but I don’t think your “emotional torture” is likely to be resolved until you have answers, one way or the other. So I will just make a few comments and see if you want to discuss further, or not.
We live in a tough world where both beautiful and ugly things happen every day. I don’t know why God has created a world like this, and if I focused on the ugly, I would never believe in a good God. But I think the evidence and the beauty both point to God more strongly (for me) than the ugly points away, so logically I continue to believe.
So I don’t know why God hasn’t helped you resolve your questions and doubts. I do know that God mostly works through people, that’s the way the world is, and maybe he wants you to work your way through to the answers. It may even be that making your previous comment here is part of that process.
I have known several other people for whom it has worked that way. They were asking questions that their churches and christian friends weren’t able to answer – because of assumptions about the Bible that didn’t stand up. But they found answers that were more reasonable when they were willing start again without those assumptions.
So I think there are indeed good answers to your questions about scripture – contradictions, nasty things in the OT, hell, etc – but they are found only when we let go of doctrines about inerrancy, etc, and start again with the Bible as the historians see it, and work our way from there. If we do that, we see that the OT began with some primitive beliefs that were gradually refined, which explains a lot of the apparent problems you have mentioned.
I think that is as much as I should say just now, but I’d be happy to discuss any of these matters further. I do hope this helps in some way, and that you find your way to peace as well as truth. Best wishes.
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@ Julie.
When a person such as unkleE uses the term ‘God’ the very first thing that springs to my mind is always, ‘Which god?’
There is no more evidence for his god than any of the gods of every other religion on the entire planet.
None at all.
And there are an awful lot of gods!
So maybe it is simply a case of which country or culture one is born into?
The reality is that, people like unkleE are simply living out the delusion that has been indoctrinated into them and reinforced on an ongoing basis.
The most difficult and oft times painful thing one is forced to come to terms with is that you have been ( unintentionally ) lied to. Usually by those you love and trust.
What you MUST understand is you are not a sinner, are most certainly not going to any made up Hell and no matter how well – meaning people like unkleE might come across as they are WRONG.
And the evidence will show you how wrong every single time, without exception.
.
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I can completely understand the desire to see loved ones who’ve passed on before us, and those who will pass on after us, again in some paradise – and this yearning may have even been enough to keep me hanging on, despite the many questions I had which resemble Julie’s.
It just wasn’t enough, because along with that hope, for me, comes the next question, what if those loved ones do not make it to Heaven? What if I am in Heaven, but my wife or my children end up in Hell? How could I be happy? How could heaven be paradise, knowing that they will suffer for eternity?
And should God spare me the torment of knowing the hellish plight of my loved ones, by either creating fake ones for me to interact with in Heaven or by erasing all memory of them from by brain (whatever memory organ one would have in the eternal spirit), then the thought of that makes me sad now – whether I know I am being fooled or not, or that my loved ones are suffering or not, doesn’t change the fact that no one wants that. Who want’s to forget their children? Who wants to have a robot loved one in the place of the real person?
It makes me think of Job, where all of his children were destroyed for the benefit of a bet made by immortals, but it was okay in the end, since God gave Job prettier children to replace the ones he lost… It’s really pretty sick – and I don’t even say that in the overly dramatic way, but in the sense that when I try to imagine losing one of my children, and the deep devastating void that would be, and then to imagine someone, much less a divine and all powerful “benevolent” creator, suggesting that it will all be okay, because I was going to get a better looking child to replace them – what an insult… how vile…. If that’s heaven, then I don’t want to be there. If Heaven is ruled by such a twisted despot, what kind of person would we have to be to bend our knee to him?
And even if we made it heaven, would we stay there long? Didn’t Satan and his angels sin in Heaven, causing them to be cast out? If freewill means there’ll be sin, and if God can’t be around sin, then is it only a matter of time before all those who make it to heaven get tossed out?
Perhaps it’s that we don’t understand. Maybe it’s that I am judging God with limited knowledge, and without knowing all the facts…. But God placed those limits, if he’s real. God, if he’s real, would have written the Bible, with all the instructions on what is good and loving and merciful, and then it would also be God who decided to act counter those teachings. If the Bible God is real, then everything is on him. he sacrificed his Son because he made the rule that made it necessary. He made the Hell that he needed to save us from… I think the more we look at this critically, we’ll see it the way we see every other religion and every other myth…
Julie, maybe we’re all reluctant to let go because we sincerely want to be good and righteous, and maybe if we’re really being honest with ourselves, we already see the Bible the way we see all the others – silly stories that were created in superstitious times.
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Julie
In answer to your questions I don’t have a blog and I don’t have a family.
My first comment in the blogsphere was over at ratamacue0’s blog, here:
https://aspiretofindtruth.wordpress.com/2015/02/08/what-started-my-questioning/#comment-414
If you scroll down you will see that in subsequent comments I discuss in more detail my views/position.
Interestingly a lot of the folk involved in the discussion are those involved in the discussion on this blog post. A small insular world?
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I suspect that those who are at peace with the God described in Job either 1) study the Bible but accept that parts are flawed (unkleE); 2) do not have a literal view of scripture or 3) do not study the Bible academically with an open mind and, if they do, they do not allow their thoughts to linger in dangerous territory. The common thread among those of us who doubt is that our minds just won’t allow us to do any of the above. But rather than feel enlightened, I feel less valuable. As a person who spent my entire life seeped in Bible teaching (including Bible college), it is almost unfathomable to acknowledge that this book is flawed. It MUST be me who is flawed.
So here is where I risk being laughed out of this blog…
Have any of you ever considered that we just aren’t His chosen? That the truth is being hidden from us? Most of you may think I’m a flake for asking this but this is one of the core concepts in the Bible. “So then he has mercy on whomever he wills and he hardens whomever he wills.” (Rom 9:18) And then of course there is “Go, and say to this people: “‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’ Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.” (Isa 6:9-10) And the most sobering in my opinion, Rom 9:11-23 which basically states that he is the potter and we are the clay and some of us are just doomed to be a dishonorable lump.
Have any of you considered this possibility? I know it really doesn’t matter. If the Bible is true and this is what he thinks of us, what can we do about it, right? Since after all, I’m a prime example of one who has for so many years wept, pleaded, begged, agonized in my prayer, “Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.” Yet here I am…
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Thank you, Peter. I look forward to reading through the blog to learn more about your experience.
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Julie what you raise about ‘not being his chosen’ is a very good point if one subscribes to Calvinist theology.
Though if that is the case and there really is a Hell, then it makes a nonsense of the idea of God being either good or loving. It also contradicts the part of the Bible where God says he plays no favourites.
The idea that God chooses some like Jacob and rejects other like Esau before they are born is taught in the Bible. But it is horrific theology. When I studied theology I thought long and hard about the idea of God choosing some before they were born and rejecting others. I could only make sense of it if there was no Hell and those not chosen ceased to exist on death.
But if there is a Hell with eternal torture after death, then it makes God a worse creature than Hitler if many are born with only ever the prospect of eternal torture after death, no matter what they do. I did not ask to be born.
The thing is the Bible is full of contradictions because elsewhere it says everyone who seeks will find. People like you, me, Nate and Gary have spent many years seeking.
An arch Calvinist who comments from time to time on Ark’s blog, did wonder why ‘God had not chosen’ me for salvation after our lengthy discussions. It was a mystery to him. But he still felt God was good and loving and sovereign.
So if God does exist I would suggest that only the arminian theology espoused by the likes of John Wesley makes moral sense.
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I would bet that many of us ex-Christians have been told by conservative Christians, “You allowed sin to blind you to the truth. Only if you repent and return to Jesus as your Lord and Savior (your Master) will you be able to see the REAL truth. Sinners (everyone) can never see the truth of Christianity without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.”
In other words, “Submit to our supernatural belief system FIRST, understand it later.”
Sorry. Whoever the Creator is, he/she/they/it gave me a brain, and my brain tells me that Christianity is no different than any other fear based superstition. It appears to be contradictory and immoral…because…it is!
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Hi Julie,
If I may… (I hope I’m not too bold or long-winded here – especially on my first comment to you. Let me know if so; I can rein it in going forward.)
I don’t think I spent as much time “seeped in Bible teaching” as it sounds like you did, but I did spend several years in it, by choice. I made some big life decisions based on it, and let other opportunities pass me by. If you do conclude as we did that the supernatural/religious claims of Christianity are not true, I think it is fair to mourn losses like that – hopefully with a view toward moving on, and making the most of the life you have going forward. I know – easier said than done. I can’t say I feel like I’m very good at it.
As far as I can tell, you’re using your brain, and seeking truth. If humanity was created by a “G/god”, then he/she/it should be pleased that you’re using the resources at your disposal – presumably provided by the same. So with all due respect: NO, that does NOT make you flawed!
Also, even if you are mistaken about a belief, or temporarily confused about something, that doesn’t make YOU flawed – it doesn’t make you bad or worthless or stupid – it just makes you mistaken about one thing. That’s it.
…If it’s any consolation, I think many/most of us deconverts find the tall claims and many of the underlying ideas of Christianity to be rather ridiculous in hindsight. It does get easier.
I doubt it. I think most (if not all) of us understand that the search is a process. The more you have invested in the worldview (time, emotion, identity, relationships, apologetics, and thought put into the framework of beliefs), the more work and the longer it takes to unpack, and to potentially accept that you were mistaken, and reject those beliefs.
I think Jon explained this well above when he said:
I responded to his comment with a link to a video series by a Youtuber (Evid3nc3), in which I found a lot that resonated with me when I was doing the research that led to my deconversion.
Back to you:
I absolutely don’t think you’re a flake.
In short, I think that the following statements cannot all be true:
The Christian God exists
God is good (for any sensible definition of “good”)
All you wrote above (God hardening people’s hearts, etc.)
If he existed, and did those things, then we’d be better (more moral) people than he – and on account of that, he wouldn’t be worthy of our service, either.
Your questions and quoted verses here demonstrate what stands out to me as a harmful effect of at least the fundamentalist/evangelical flavors of Christianity – it makes people slaves to an imaginary deity, and prevents them from thinking for themselves. It’s baked right in. Consider Proverbs 3:5-6: “Trust Yahweh with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths smooth.” (Names of God Bible) Trust the book. When the book contradicts logic or reason or itself, don’t think for yourself. Don’t question the book or its claims of “God”. Trust us; it’s what’s best for you.
I think Neil Carter did a good job of explaining in this old post of his: Anti-intellectualism and the Bible.
Lastly, speaking of thinking for yourself, let me say – don’t just take our word for it. Listen to all sides (Christians included), think for yourself, and make up your own mind.
Thanks for commenting, and best wishes in your search. 🙂
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I enjoyed the Evid3nc3 series of videos. Thanks for sharing that.
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Julie,
I can’t really add much to what the others have offered, but I can relate the questions you have regarding us being blinded by sin or simply not chosen by God Almighty.
For me, I guess a few things helped me get by those thoughts:
1) Anyone, from any religion, could feel that way or say those things. Indeed, even if we felt secure in one religion, it could be that God or Sin has blinded us to the real truth of an opposing religion. There’s so many possibilities out there, each with so little support, that it quickly becomes untenable.
2) When God is capable of anything, even the absurd and impossible, then anything could the case. It could be that we’re mistaken and that the bible doesn’t make sense to us because we’re blinded by sin, or given over to a lie, but then anything and everything else is also possible. But if we realize that in every other aspect of our lives, logic and reason rule the day, then we can ask ourselves, “what makes the most sense here?” or, “When comparing all the possibilities, which seem reasonable, which seem less than reasonable?” And then ask yourself what other things in life are best determined by abandoning reason and logic in favor of something else?
3) Our faith in the Biblical God is, and could only be, originating first from a faith in man. Men wrote the bible, translated the bible, told us about the bible. The God in that Bible is composed of claims by these men – so then how could our faith first be in God? We can only have faith in the God these men write about after we have faith that these men are writing absolute history and accurate truth. So, “we ought to obey God rather than man”? really? We only know what God says based on what men have said that God said,,,
4) can we do more than our best? If God is real and just, and he sees it fitting that you or I burn in hell, despite our best effort to find truth and not be deceived, then fine. What else are we supposed to do? Is it better to reach a conclusion after making our best effort, but then going against that conclusion because of a “what if?”
Anyhow, none of this may be helpful, but it’s just my thoughts on it.
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William, loved what you wrote in #3 — Our faith in the Biblical God is, and could only be, originating first from a faith in man. Men wrote the bible, translated the bible, told us about the bible.
I’d never thought of it quite that way. Superb!
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Well Julie, you’ve already noted how fantastic our community is here, and I think these comments have further illustrated that. Sorry I didn’t have a chance to comment sooner, but there’s no way I could improve on anything that’s already been said, anyway. Just know that I can identify a bit with how you feel, because those are the same anguished questions I was asking myself during my deconversion. As some of the other folks have mentioned, things get better. I’m just glad that you’ve decided to use us as a sounding board.
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Hi Julie,
Reading your comments reminded me so much of my own thought processes when I really started questioning after 4 decades of being a Christian. Two of those decades were spent in complete devotion and study. My goal was to die to myself (I must decrease so that he can increase) and let god work through me. I made a lot of sacrifices — I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I went the distance, but that did take time for me to realize. I kept spinning my wheels, only to find myself in the same place. I also felt the way you did, that it must be me, and perhaps that’s why I held on to my faith longer than I would have.
There were several reasons why I ended up accepting that it wasn’t me, and questions the character of this god, and you’ve named most of them. However, in my search to understand my late husband’s neurological disorder, it became quite apparent to me that the god of the bible knew little about his own creation. If he did, then why wouldn’t he educate us about the root causes of behavior that is condemned in the bible, and even promoted, and condoned if god says so.
So, in my sincere search to find answers, I spent more and more time studying neuroscience, and other fields in science, and I realized that the god of the bible never addressed any of the actual causes of social ills. The god of the bible only addressed the symptoms, and blamed it on disobedience and rebellion towards him. It became quite apparent to me that this god had the knowledge of the age he was invented in.
Those feelings you have inside — the desire to cooperate, the desire to love and be loved — empathy — those are qualities that are innate, and necessary for our survival as a species. There’s nothing magical or godly about these qualities. Without them, we would die out as a species. We are self-aware and can anticipate the future, although we are discovering that we may not be the only species who is. For the most part, these are highly beneficial cognitive adaptations because they allow us to formulate plans and foresee the consequences of our actions. But they also make us realize that death is inevitable and unpredictable. Enter religion and god belief. The brain has evolved to delude itself.
The need to delude ourselves about our impending fate is powerful, and not at all easy to overcome.
http://spp.sagepub.com/content/early/2015/04/27/1948550615584200.abstract
Like others have said here, it will take time, and I know that’s not really comforting for you right now. I have had to do a lot of introspection as to why I experienced anger during my deconversion, and it occurred to me that I was going through the 5 stages of grief. Losing my faith was like losing a loved one. I came to realize that the reason for getting angry at times was because when I realized that it wasn’t true, that I had been mislead, I felt betrayed by those I trusted and by my culture. I fell hard, really hard. It hurt really bad, which is why, in an age of information, I think it’s best to let children explore, rather than indoctrinate. Children are especially trusting. They need to trust their caregivers, or others, in order to survive, and whether deliberate or not, that trust can be exploited.
At the same time, however, I also understand that people really do battle with death anxiety, whether they are conscious of it or not, which is why I don’t talk about my lack of belief around others in my offline world — not unless I’m backed into a corner. I know the consequences (personally) — but I also know that some people can’t or think they can’t survive reality without the belief of a supernatural caregiver, and the promise of an afterlife. Most deconvertees here are proof that it can be done, and peace does eventually come. Life is far more meaningful to me now. This life is most likely the only life we will have, and that is quite sobering. This awareness has made me far more appreciative of life, and helped me become fully in touch with my humanity.
Apologies for this turning out to be so long. Julie, your comments struck a cord with me, and you touched me with your sincerity and integrity. I wish you all the best, and I feel certain that you will do what’s best for you to help you cope in an uncertain world.
*hug*
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One thought that helped me deal with the (imaginary) loss of never seeing my deceased loved ones again in heaven, was to realize that billions of other human beings and their loved ones will never burn for all eternity in hell.
In comparison, it is a small loss for me and an enormous gain for all of humanity!
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That is a very good point, Gary. I remember when you were really struggling with the fear of hell, and I think most of us did have that fear once we started questioning. But when we do eventually overcome that fear, it is quite amazing the liberation and relief we feel when it comes to our loved ones. Since my deconversion which was almost 17 years ago, I make it a point to say “I love you”, and it is me, not someone I think is inside of me, who is saying it. I also love deeper, and it’s different than when I was a believer. It feels more authentic.
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Thank you, nan. I recall waffling over my faith pretty strongly, even after seeing all the problems, but when that dawned on me, I was able to shrug it off like an old coat, and haven’t been able to put it back on.
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HA! I threw away my coat a long time ago. 😀
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Yes, Nan, if you grew up fundamentalist Christian, the concept of burning forever in Hell is a hard concept to get out of your subconscious. That is why I blog. It is my therapy. It is my therapy as a former member of a fear-based cult. It has really helped…and is a hell of a lot cheaper than a psychiatrist!
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I was a fundamentalist Christian for nearly 50 years. I wasn’t a 100% de-convert when I started following this blog almost 4 years ago. What helped me to reach that point was the thoughtful challenges to my beliefs. No one called me names or made me feel stupid or inferior. Thanks Nate and to the many people I have met here who I consider friends.
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