Well, sorry I’ve been away so long. Things are going well — I’ve just been busy with work and haven’t had a whole lot to say lately. But yesterday, I ran across a really interesting article that I wanted to share with all of you.
Paul Sagar, the author of the article, discusses several possible problems with the notion of immortality and asks if it’s even something we should really want. But what I found most interesting was his suggestion that our innate desire for immortality might not really be about wanting to live forever, but about being able to control when we die.
Christopher Hitchens famously said:
I do not especially like the idea that one day I shall be tapped on the shoulder and informed, not that the party is over but that it is most assuredly going on — only henceforth in my absence.
That seems to be the hard part. We worry that our time will come too soon, when there are too many things left undone — too many people still around that we want to spend time with.
But if you live long enough, it seems that there would come a time when that’s no longer the case. When most of the people you’d want to spend time with have already left the party too. Or when your body has worn out to the point that you’re just ready for that final slumber.
And perhaps just as great a fear is living too long. We all know people who have suffered with Alzheimer’s or dementia. Or those who have become physically disabled to the point that they can no longer do the simplest of tasks and remain in great pain. Death can seem like a blessing in those instances.
Of course, when people talk about immortality, they’re really talking about living forever in a perfect state — good health and access to loved ones. Would such an immortality be a good thing? I don’t really know. In the same quote, Hitchens went on to say:
Much more horrible, though, would be the announcement that the party was continuing forever, and that I was forbidden to leave. Whether it was a hellishly bad party or a party that was perfectly heavenly in every respect, the moment that it became eternal and compulsory would be the precise moment that it began to pall.
I can see his point, though this is something I go back and forth over. Maybe such an eternity wouldn’t get boring. Either way, I think most of us wish we had more time than what we typically get.
Of course, it doesn’t really matter whether we wish we had more time or not — wishing for a thing doesn’t make it so. We don’t live forever. And I don’t have any reason to believe that some part of us will continue on after death. So we’re left to focus on living the one life we do have to the fullest extent possible. Take care of those we care about; take advantage of the opportunities we’re given; make the most of each moment; live with as few regrets as possible.
Anyway, nothing I’ve said here is revolutionary or even definitive. I’ve really just been typing out my own thoughts on this. So, more importantly, take a second to read that article, if you haven’t already. I especially enjoyed the story about Bhishma, taken from Mahabharata.
Finding Truth 
Nigel,
When someone steps away from a belief that they’ve previously held, it’s not a sign of arrogance, it’s a sign of humility. It shows a willingness to consider that they could be wrong.
Why would a thing not matter just because it’s made of physical matter? Also, the body’s chemical reactions are not random, and the things we say (and type) aren’t unintelligible gibberish. piggers71’s whole statement is a bit ridiculous and shows a severe lack of imagination. It’s meant to end a conversation and nothing more — it’s the equivalent of saying “I know you are but what am I?” Talk about arrogance…
One of the reasons religious beliefs are so hotly debated is that any particular view is difficult to prove. The fact is, we’re a species that’s intelligent enough to ask where we came from and why we’re here, and there are countless competing answers to those questions. If the correct answer is the Christian god, he sure is well hidden, and he’s left a lot of room for doubt. At least atheists have some support for their view because they take what we already know and say “I think this is probably all there is.” At the very least, we know that matter exists and that it is not insignificant, since we ourselves are made of matter. But the supernatural and the spiritual have not yet been proven to exist, so to assert that matter is meaningless and only something spiritual or supernatural has any significance is bizarre and unfounded.
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I have never seen such a tangled web of complete, total bullshit in my life. I will have to write multiple pages just to answer it all before I can get to my point. you’re not going to read a word of it either, you have devoted yourself to a suicide mission which you think involves either God striking you down or you destroying all mankind. Ugh.
When I say “The Church Created all you know and take for granted, and you lose it without your Remaining Catholic Capital,” I mean it with the deadly seriousness. you cannot keep one iota of it after you “seek to drive His Followers from the earth” because you cannot “drive God from The Heavens.”
God Is The Uncreated, Uncontingent Prime Mover Who is so far above His Creation that you can only Witness Him as He interacts with Creation. When you sneer at God as hidden, you are making a demand because you have wronged Him, not a claim.
you spend your whole life worshiping demons, making your life in accordance to self-destruction demons require of you, damn yourself as they demand, & deny them as they demand of their followers to stay hidden.
speaking of other demands, you DEMAND that empiricism is the only thought. that very statement is a philosophical argument and therefore self-refuting. if science is all-knowing, why do you need to make philosophical claims to puff it up? if empiricism is the only valid thought, then philosophical statements are invalid by your own criterion and therefore “empiricism is the only valid thought” is rejected by its own premise!
you have no foundation for ANYTHING. nothing about matter explains itself, or gives meaning; this is definitional. words do not mean anything outside of The Church, there is no intellect or free will without The Rational Soul. you are a meaningless chemical deterministically making meaningless noise. your feelings, thinking, shame over sin all refute this but you cannot admit all you are is a lie, evil incarnate.
Like I said, you are a moralizer without morals, a relativist who has no actual trust or belief in relativism. you pick and choose and seek to hide your sin behind anything, unaware your sin is bigger than the universe. like how you pretend to hide with beasts in the hopes of either destroying yourself or all humanity (it’s the latter you seem to be banking on, clearly)
Like I said in one of the many posts I made to you that you did not read:
“Let me repeat myself: you can’t even justify why one would act like a soundrel. you may and do and have acted like one, but you can’t explain it without refuting everything else about you. you can’t say men are beasts when men do not act like beasts, and you can’t say men are better than beasts without revealing Heaven or worse than beasts and reveal hell. you can’t say self-interest, as that would admit contingency. you can’t say desire, as in “I wanted to,” as that would admit causality. you can’t say determinism, as what deterministic process could make you think or speak?”
especially when all your principles and ideas and foundations are all stolen from The Church and smuggled half-witted through the back-door. you cannot admit this, and so you try to ritualistically deny God in the hopes either He will strike you down or you will “compete with / usurp” Him and you ritualistically deny The Church in the hopes of stealing Her Authority and Place.
So, once more:
“When an atheist starts in with me, I simply remind them if they are right, then they are nothing but matter that doesn’t matter and therefore neither does the noise being emitted by their random chemical reactions. After their initial dumbfounded reaction is set upon their face, I tell them that they’re irrelevant according to their own world view and I don’t have time for their meaningless fizzing and popping.?”
Not shocking you mention arrogance by despair and sociopathic projection; you have a liar’s tell. “arrogance” means to claim for yourself authority that does not belong to you. you do this in your messages, your blog, your pride unto despair.
Really, do you think I do not have a real life? That I and all other Christians are a punching bag to serve solely at the “pleasure” of your delusion that:
1) your shame over sin will go away the harder you persecute.
2) “ye will be like gods” by pretending to “overthrow” God’s Order.
No, evil incarnate, on all accounts for your delusions.
All this because of your sexual sin. you will wish you were never born, and I am already sure you do.
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I never made any such claim. I said earlier that philosophy has value, and I’ve never claimed that science is all-knowing or that empiricism is the only kind of thought. But empiricism and science do have a lot to offer, they’ve proven themselves over and over, and truth claims should carry with them some kind of evidence.
Why does matter need some bigger meaning? Matter just is. That’s not to say things can’t have meaning — I find lots of things meaningful. But I can supply that meaning myself. It doesn’t matter to me if some other entity also finds meaning in the things that I appreciate.
These are claims that would require support, which you’re not offering. And as Carmen said, if I’m making meaningless noise, why are you responding to me?
I just disagree with you. People behave in all kinds of ways for all kinds of reasons. If you want to explain all of that via Christianity, you’re welcome to, but that’s not the only explanation.
I have no problem admitting that I’m a product of Western civilization. Christianity has influenced me in countless ways. And there are some really good teachings within Christianity. There are also some terrible ones. I think the most rational approach for anyone is to listen to a world view, take the good, and leave the rest.
I don’t have the authority to come to my own conclusions about things? I mean, at least I just do this for myself. I don’t spend my time telling others what they think and why they think it…
What? You think I’m treating you like a punching bag? I think you’d be hard pressed to find many people, including Christians on this blog, who would say I persecute people. And it’s not any kind of shame over sin that brought me out of Christianity. I was happy in the congregation I was a member of. It was deeper study that eventually brought me out of it.
I really do think you’d benefit from just listening to what people tell you about their beliefs and motivations. Your insistence on telling everyone what they think and why is so weird to me… It would be like someone wanting to know about Catholicism and asking a Mormon.
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Nate … you know those people who just like to hear themselves talk? I think we have a winner! Even though it’s being done here via the written word … the intent is unmistakable, IMO.
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Agreed, Nan
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Oh joy, the gnostic is onto the “fisking” stage.
I reply because you have spent the past 10 years of your life killing souls. It’s time to end your evil so man can breathe again.
your reprobate mind and sexual sin (it’s ALWAYS sexual sin) made you into the monster you insist on being, “nate.”
you have no foundation for thought, period. One has no thought in general without Faith, Founding Oneself In God, but yours is worse than even that.
your demand that “matter just is,” is to claim that matter is uncreated and uncontingent. Contingency and Causality clearly exist and are are almost as easily observable as the effects of sin.
“evidence” is the byproduct of observation. empiricism is the study by observation. Once more, you cannot prove empiricism with empiricism. your words imply (and you affirm what you deny as you deny what you affirm) that empricism is the only valid thought, which is a philosophical argument.
you have no means of justifying the existence of philosophy, nor the sciences (which cannot exist without constant Connection to The Church that made them out of whole cloth), nor can you even justify how you can observe things. I have already gone over this and your hypocrisy for weeks (over a year now).
you have only recently decided to personally attack me, and were content to ignore this thread or let your AWFULs do it for you. Like I hinted at, I think you got a “diagnosis” of some sort, and you are lashing out to try to sacrifice me by pagan “sacred violence” to damn me in your place.
The Cross already destroyed your weapon, and you kill your own soul in the process of trying.
The five steps of the reprobate are:
1) mortal sin
2) denial of God due to shame over mortal sin, hoping that makes it go away.
3) persecution of Christians due to shame over mortal sin, hoping that makes it go away.
4) Martyring Christians due to shame over mortal sin, hoping that makes it go away.
5) sucide
your AWFULs are clearly step 3 psyching themselves up for step 4 (step 5 comes immediately after step 4 is attempted). What are you? Step 3 trying to backslide into step 2 because you have enough humanity left to understand what step 4 leads to?
Contrition, Conversion, Confession, Penance, Repentance is ONLY possible inside The Church. you have no way to get out of even the smallest sin outside of The Church.
The Four Last Things are death, Judgement, Heaven, or hell.
PERIOD.
I don’t want to hear from you EVER again Nate, even if you were to Repent you still have lead so many astray and that is Judged first. you would have to dedicate hundreds of years to healing the wounds you have cause with simple minutes.
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It’s always all about sex, isn’t it, Nigel? 😉
Oh my Nate – this guy is something else, eh? :). Wonder if he was part of the crowd in Washington DC yesterday, with the rest of those nuts?
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AWFUL, more people are in hell due to sexual sin than any others. the souls fall to hell like snowflakes, and that was back in 1917; imagine it now.
you being more “advanced” on the scale is expected. If only all your Family was there your life would be whole enough that you wouldn’t be present to make a reprobate of yourself at literally a second’s notice.
it appears like this: that the woman Martyrs the child in the womb, while the man stands idly by.
the woman is there as it happens and becomes possessed and insane immediately. the man slowly comes to a realization over time.
But “time” does come.
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You are living in the nightmare of your own tangled mind, teapot.
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“AWFUL, more people are in hell due to sexual sin than any others.” Nigel, why don’t you preach this to all of the Catholic Preists who have taken sexual advantage of thousands if not millions of young innocent children over the past 1700 years? That would be a good start. Clean up your own back yard before you start complaining about someone else’s. Or maybe you are one of them ? Historically, those who’ve cried out the most about sexual misconduct have usually been the perpertrators .
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And back to the step 4’s inverting Truth and projecting in the hopes of damning me in your place.
I said this to one of your kind weeks ago:
“you see your reflection in the mirror of my soul, and you lash out at yourself.”
Jason Morgan said that the “I know you are but what am I” claims of accusing us of your own sexual sin because we call it out is: “social analysis from the 7th grade playground.”
you accuse The Church of what She is most Innocent of; ironically of what you seem to otherwise support. Out of ALL groups, The Church has the least instances of any abuse of children. you are not only blaspheming, you are guilty by support. you are trying to cover up what you personally do and what your whole group does worse in the hopes it will Martyr The Innocent in effigy of God.
therefore you incur by your actions and intent, the worst sin That Cries To Heaven For Vengeance of trying to Martyr The Innocent in effigy of God. one count per ALL in Church Militant, ALL in Church Suffering, and ALL in Church Triumphant.
you doing so in an attempt to shutter me is worse though, you are trying to Martyr me in effigy of God; equal to cain for Martyring Abel, The First Saint, often called “abortion” in its most common form. you try to do so onto me and all Catholics because you think you can take out the realization that you would never “be like gods” on us.
Venerable Fulton Sheen:
“Conscience, Christ, and the gift of faith make evil men uneasy in their sin. They feel that if they could drive Christ from the earth, they would be free from “moral inhibitions.” They forget that it is their own nature and conscience which makes them feel that way. Being unable to drive God from the heavens, they would drive his ambassadors from the earth. In a lesser sphere, that is why many men sneer at virtue–because it makes vice uncomfortable.”
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I’ve been nice so far, but you are either very emtionally troubled , a Troll, or an idiot. Take your pick. I won’t waste any more time on you.
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freemason with the picture of you in front of the pyramids, you have just accused me of being a pedophile because I stated the simple fact that more are in hell for sexual sin than any other. you once more project upon me in the hopes of damning me in your place.
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Apparently shift+enter sends the message. So to continue:
you are again, projecting by the mortal sin of despair. the mortal sin of despair is when you try to damn others in your place by projecting your sin upon them. you call this “nice,” especially after you claim I am a pedophile like you seem to otherwise salivate over the idea of.
There is a reason that The Saints throughout history have told of all the “nice” people in hell.
when pride (spiritual pride, the delusion you have “usurped” Divine Will by “wishful thinking/gnosis/enlightenment/illumination/etc”) is threatened it degenerates to despair.
I said that days ago, you are apparently still running up that hill two days later.
So once more:
you accuse The Church of what She is most Innocent of; ironically of what you seem to otherwise support. Out of ALL groups, The Church has the least instances of any abuse of children. you are not only blaspheming, you are guilty by support. you are trying to cover up what you personally do and what your whole group does worse in the hopes it will Martyr The Innocent in effigy of God.
therefore you incur by your actions and intent, the worst sin That Cries To Heaven For Vengeance of trying to Martyr The Innocent in effigy of God. one count per ALL in Church Militant, ALL in Church Suffering, and ALL in Church Triumphant.
you also incur the third worst sin That Cries To Heaven For Vengeance of blasphemy in the same number of counts for the exact same actions.
you are a projecting pervert, a monster who has chosen hell but desperate by suicide to try to drag me with you.
each count of a sin That Cries To Heaven For Vengeance incurs special punishment in hell worse than all else combined, AND for each a blood price that MUST be paid on earth even if you Repent. you do this so gladly, so DESPERATELY, that when I inform you what you bring upon yourself all you allow yourself to do is double up on it.
What you don’t realize is that your shame over sin won’t go away by lying, or persecuting, or Martyring. your shame is the Natural Response to you doing the unnatural.
you were allowed to be born here instead of directly in hell to allow you a chance to Repent.
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AWFUL, you are trying your “sacred violence” again. you doing this to your children would explain all I know about you from your evil-beyond-measure posts. you’re not as violent in your evil as the freemason-adjascent is (I can see he is friends with “ark”), but I know your kind better than you can allow yourself to.
Like I said on the masonics blog, your curses are returned back to whence they came with a St Michael Prayer and a St Benedict Prayer. I know the vicious hate of the devil himself you try to hold back against me.
But to answer further, Victim Souls are people who are United to The Cross to pay for your sin because you refuse to.
this is why you freak out when you see Victim Souls as you see what you deserve (and will get) Eternally.
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Newsflash, teapot. There’s no such thing as any devil – it exists in your ((fevered)) imagination. If being a keyboard warrior is your only means of exerting power, you’re in trouble. (But then, we’ve known that since you started commenting)
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Odd emphasis on fevered. Are you calling my “fever” jewish, or are you wishing sickness on me. you seem to have began with “sacred violence” on your own flesh and blood, and now upon me for simply pointing it out. What I mentioned to the masonic above applies to you too.
your curses are not only sent back to whence they came with a St Michael Prayer and a St Benedict Prayer, all you have ever made are sent back upon you by My Final Authority should you EVER try to harm another again for ANY reason.
AWFUL, this applies to you seemingly more than it applies to “nate” as he’s the only one of you with a sliver of conscience still left to be bothered by the evil of your lives and positions:
you spend your whole life worshiping demons, making your life in accordance to self-destruction demons require of you, damn yourself as they demand, & deny them as they demand of their followers to stay hidden.
I never mentioned power, but serial killers and post-“abortive” women alike tend to boast how their demonic acts make them feel “powerful.” then the demonic possession and suicide shows how much your “power” fixation is worth.
St Aquinas noted four distractions from God: wealth, pleasure, power, honor.
Chesterton said that the desperation and fury people search after pleasure proves that they have no pleasure.
We can then extrapolate this to:
the desperation and fury people search after wealth proves that they have no wealth.
the desperation and fury people search after power proves that they have no power.
the desperation and fury people search after honor proves that they have no honor.
Make sure to never bother me again, and make sure to stop abusing your grandchildren to try to “normalize” your sin.
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Philosophy is at least 1000 years older than the church. But even if it wasn’t, it doesn’t really matter where it came from or who thought of it first, because it’s a tool that stands on its own.
Aside from that, there’s not really anything else worth replying to. Oh, I can at least answer why I came back. The last 2+ years have been very busy for me personally and professionally. I still probably would have commented here, but I don’t really keep up with the email address that receives the comment notifications on this blog, so I don’t usually know if there’s a comment unless I come here to check. When I did that a week or so ago, I saw your comments, and here we are.
But personally, I’m kind of tired of this whole exchange. It’s completely unproductive.
Nigel, I do wish you well. I hope that you’ll find a way to have more compassion toward humanity as whole, even if your beliefs never change. Most people are trying to be good people. All of us that you’re talking to in this thread have wrestled with religion because we aren’t the kind of people to sit blankly in a pew and not really care about the beliefs we say we hold to. Instead, we believed them strongly, thought about them deeply, and prayed fervently for God to help us find the truth. Maybe we’re wrong in our current convictions, but like the apostle Paul, we’ve gotten to them honestly and sincerely.
If you could realize that and assume that most non-religious people are still trying to be good people and live good lives, maybe you would get farther when you try to talk to them. It’s true that there are some atheists who are assholes and don’t care about having real conversations. But sadly, that’s true of some people no matter what they believe. And discourse has gotten so poisonous over the internet, it’s no wonder that it’s hard to find good, polite conversation about these topics. It takes real effort to have a productive, respectful dialogue. I encourage you to focus on doing that. If Jesus wrote comments online, I think he would.
And I’m not just singling you out. I hope we all focus on that. But I’ve seen Carmen, Nan, and KC do it many, many times, and it’s been my experience that they only break away from that when they feel attacked.
Anyway, good luck to you.
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In closing, it needs to pointed out (even if it’s glaringly obvious) that the compassionate, kind, diplomatic ‘human bean’ on this thread is Nate – and anyone reading – no matter which god they believe in – will agree. And he’s an atheist.
Let that sink in.
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“Raymond Shaw Is the Kindest, Bravest, Warmest, Most Wonderful Human Being I’ve Ever Known in My Life”
While you desperately toot your own horn, you have no Substance to back it up.
Venerable Fulton Sheen speaks of the nature of evil right here (hint: evil is polite and diplomatic):
“No one can understand Communism who does not believe in the devil. The Communists believe in the devil. The Communists organized a so-called “patriotic” church. A few brain washed were to be in charge of the churches because they were loyal to the anti-God regime.
One of the first orders given by the Communists to them was that the prayer to Prayer to Saint Michael be no longer said because it invoked the protection of St. Michael against “the wickedness and snares of the devil.” As one Communist judge said: “We are those devils.”
It is hard for many in the free world to believe that there are not only bad men, but evil men. Bad men steal, rape, ravage and plunder. Evil men may not always do these things, but they seek to destroy goodness, virtue, morality, decency, truth and honor. Bad men who steal admit honesty; evil men who do not steal, call dishonesty “honesty,” totalitarianism “democracy,” slavery “freedom.” Evil men can be nice at table, polite with women, courteous in Washington, refined in London and calm in Geneva. But the principle which guides their every move is the maxim of Lenin: every lie, trickery, knavery and deceit must be used to further world revolution.”
what you did to your children in the womb won’t be forgotten even if you Repent (not that you even have the slightest inkling what that means).
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“nate,” once more you snovel about novelty and ignore Substance. The Church Has been around since the start. The Church first entered earth as Israel, and has now been Perfected.
Still, this part of The Church on earth is the smallest.
just look at you affirming what you deny as you deny what you affirm. you try to sneer about The Church’s Age (not knowing She predates Creation) as novelty to push philosophy (though you demand empiricism as the only valid thought, and so self-refute), but then claim that “philosophy” stands on “its own” as its own uncreated, uncontingent prime mover.
you then give up the plot, when you demand it be a “tool.” so you claim philosophy is a “god” for itself, then claim this “god” is a tool for you to use.
I already discussed this in the many parts of my messages to you that you patently ignore to be a dishonest rat on the sinking ship that is paganism. like kant, you believe what does not appeal to you personally is to be ignored. like the absurdist you are, you are a moralizer without morality and demand that you are trying to be a “good” person despite not only rejecting Good but actively trying to destroy it.
this is why your puppet “feel attacked,” because Virtue makes vice uncomfortable.
If I hated you or hated humanity, I would do as you do and drag others to hell where you are. But I am not in hell and I am shattering your chains. you think you will maintain your prison by refusing to look, but the sun is still there even though you close the blinds.
what a pathetic “god” all of you make.
you, a shibboleth that knows not his mother or father (carmen’s unborn children know more about her than she can realize about herself), are trying so desperately to rationalize and to despair. to project in the hopes it damns me in your place, and to invert Truth as demons do.
you never knew God, and you were always a milquetoast suburban pagan. you try to pretend you were otherwise as a means to attack a Church you were never a part of at the behest of demons you’ve never said “no” to.
The five steps of the reprobate are:
1) mortal sin
2) denial of God due to shame over mortal sin, hoping that makes it go away.
3) persecution of Christians due to shame over mortal sin, hoping that makes it go away.
4) Martyring Christians due to shame over mortal sin, hoping that makes it go away.
5) sucide
you demand forcing everyone to be like you in the hopes that if everyone is damned then you cannot be; that’s the lesser-common half of the mortal sin of despair.
capital sin of pride gets threatened, your hopelessness leads you to try to use your capital sin of pride to:
1) project your sin onto others in the hopes they are damned in your place (pagans called this “sacred violence” and The Cross destroyed your human sacrifice pretend-weapon).
2) claim your sin is spread so far and wide that EVERYONE is guilty of it, and so if you are damned then so is all of humanity.
this is despair, and despair cannot recognize itself. your guitar won’t save you, and what you did to those women left shame for a reason.
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FYI to the rest of you, I’ve added Nigel to my blocklist. I only have one other person on it, despite all the years I’ve been doing this. I’m just tired of his ranting and his rudeness.
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Good idea Nate!
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Yay!!!
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Can’t blame you. Been following this and shaking my head.
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