I value open-mindedness over most other things. When I was going through my deconversion and having frequent religious discussions with my family, I often felt that they weren’t being open-minded. I know that it’s hard (perhaps impossible) to judge how open-minded someone else is being, so I hesitate to even pass that kind of judgment. At the same time, it’s not like they were answering the problems I brought up with actual solutions — it mostly centered on how arrogant I was to question “God’s word.” On top of that, they never read any of the books or articles that I asked them to — I don’t think they even read all of the stuff I personally wrote to them.
It was the seeming lack of open-mindedness that shocked me most, in many ways. During my time as a Christian, I tried to be as open-minded as possible. I was part of a strict denomination that thought most other Christians were wrong, so I often had discussions with my Christian friends to try to help them see “the truth.” In those discussions, I often admitted that I could be wrong:
Either I’m wrong, or you’re wrong, or we’re both wrong. We can’t both be right…
I firmly believed (based on Matthew 7) that as long as I was searching for the truth, I would find it. Also, if what I believed about Christianity was true, then more study would only bear that out. In other words, I had nothing to fear by discussing and examining Christianity with those who disagreed with me. If they could show me where I was wrong, then that was good! It would mean that I had believed the wrong thing, but learning that would give me the opportunity to correct it and be more pleasing to God.
Now that I have come out of Christianity, I still feel just as strongly about the merits of open-mindedness. Recently, someone suggested that I read In His Image, by William Jennings Bryan (which I’m now doing), but when he gave me the suggestion, he then backpedaled and said I might not like the book because it supports Christianity. I was disappointed by that statement. I told him that I don’t read things based on whether or not I will agree with them — I take religion very seriously, because all religion is an effort to explain reality. If this book by WJB can provide some arguments I haven’t considered before, or answer some of my questions about Christianity, then I want to know that!
But now for the admission. Now for the part that I haven’t been able to say to my family yet: I don’t see any way that I’ll ever believe Christianity again. On the surface, that may seem like it runs counter toward my goal of being open-minded, but it really doesn’t. The fact is, I’ve just seen too much. “I once was blind, but now I see.” The fact is, the Bible can’t fix its problems because it’s a closed document. No more material is going in or out of it. Nor is God going to speak to me directly or perform some miracle to overcome my skepticism. We’re stuck with what we’ve got.
We’re left with a god that’s supposedly omnipotent, omniscient, and loves us all, yet we still have evil in the world. He remains hidden from us, but supposedly wants a relationship with us. He supposedly left us a message, but no one can agree on what it says, and its books look pretty much like all the other things that were being written at the time. As this post said:
Let’s face it – I may still be open to the idea of being convinced on the matter, but this is a genie that’s not going to go back into the bottle easily. I can’t unlearn what I’ve found; I can’t simply deny the truth that I’ve been able to discover without the fear of uprooting my faith. To ask me to believe again would be to take on the herculean task of not only providing sufficient evidence but also dealing with all of the logical and evidential problems or to ask me to knowingly deceive myself – and I’m not sure I’m willing to do that for anyone.
I am still an open-minded person. But I also know enough about Christianity now to know what it is and what it isn’t. I didn’t lose my faith by forgetting things, but by learning things. And if I had known years ago what I know now, I never would have been a Christian in the first place.
Finding Truth 
i guess the good news is that no matter what, we’re all saved by faith. that is good news.
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It’s the ultimate irony, William – Si doesn’t know enough, to know that he doesn’t know enough, to know….(ad infinitum)
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a·the·ist [ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Origin:
1565–75; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless + -ist
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ag·nos·tic [ag-nos-tik] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan.
2.
a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
3.
a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic: Socrates was an agnostic on the subject of immortality.
adjective
4.
of or pertaining to agnostics or their doctrines, attitudes, or beliefs.
5.
asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge.
6.
holding neither of two opposing positions: If you take an agnostic view of technology, then it becomes clear that your decisions to implement one solution or another should be driven by need.
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I wanted to cover the definition of agnostic before SOM started saying that agnosticism was really having definite knowledge.
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Which is why you and reality are such strangers.
“You can’t prove it, so by definition you believe it through faith. There is no physical evidence of it so you believe it through faith.”
I can’t prove there are no fuzzy pink unicorns, does that, “by definition” (whose?) automatically mean i believe in them?
Can you prove there’s no Santa Claus? Does that, “by definition” mean you believe in him? How about the Easter bunny? Zeus? Odin? Ra? Mithra? Mothra?
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whoa! we dont take mothra’s name in vain here. there are some boundaries. we’re not savages.
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Speak for yourself, I’m on Godzilla’s side! (Actually, I wondered if I slipped that into the list, anyone would notice – nice catch!)
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Archaeo,
By comparing atheism to the fuzzy ping unicorns you just proved that atheism is complete nonsense.
And I could make the same utterly moronic reply to your constant sheep bleating demands for proof of Moses and Jesus.
That you can’t see that you just annihilated your entire argument against the existence of Jesus and Moses is yet another testament from your hallucinated alternative universe of atheism that you are ruled by bias.
The rules you set apply to everyone but you. That is what defines elitism and hypocrisy.
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SOM, I think arch compared Christianity to fuzzy pink unicorns.
you’re saying that since an atheist cant prove there is no god, then it requires faith to not believe in god? is that really your position, because it’s just stupid?
how would you prove no god? how about you prove he’s there. Point to him. maybe he’s sleeping? I know, i read this once somewhere. Build an alter, and dig a trench around it and fill the trench with water. Put a bull on the alter and ask god to burn it all up. he’s done it before, so it cant be too hard for him.
oh, what’s that? he’s not answering?
Prove allah isnt real you idiot. prove that Mohammed didnt fly on a winged horse, or do you believe that crap too?
Your whole argument is so ludicrous, and must mean you’re so stupid, that I’m not surprised you’re having trouble understanding what’s being talked about. How have you survived this long?
like nate has said, if you disagree, then okay. But why insist on making the most asinine remarks?
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Nate,
Atheists’ inclination to hallucinate alternate realities along with the characteristic mental retardation that atheism requires of its believers is the only reason you would ask such an absurd question.
The existence of God is provable through reason and modern cosmology as all but retired atheism to the ash heap of stupidity.
Atheism is the stupendous delusion that possesses commonality with Santa Clause and the pink fairy unicorns.
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Si, I’m not sure what you’re drinking (or smoking), but it certainly sounds like you’re enjoying it – “ping unicorns”?
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but you cant disprove atheism… and if atheism is a good example of faith, then i guess faith in your bible writers isnt all it’s cracked up to be since you’re putting it on par with atheism.
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I notice, Si, that you didn’t answer any of my questions. Your rhetoric is rapidly degrading into nonsense – don’t you think it’s time for your afternoon nappy-nap?
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SOM, how about this. For argument’s sake, and because I think you’re having difficulty with simple logic, let’s pretend that atheists have faith.
Okay, now that that is out of the way, where is the evidence in support of your bible? this entire blog is dedicated to the evinces against it. Where’s your evidence and basis for your faith in the bible?
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Archeao,
I didn’t answer your questions because I don’t do stupid. But it is heartening that you noticed.
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Okay, now that that is out of the way, where is the evidence in support of your bible? this entire blog is dedicated to the evinces against it. Where’s your evidence and basis for your faith in the bible?
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Yo, Si – here’s a little information regarding Global Warming, why don’t you go tell those guys what idiots they are, that should give you something to do until you sober up, then come back for more spankings.
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William,
Since the existence of God is self-evident (known through reason) and has been known for about 2500 years, atheism is automatically disproven.
Since God exists and his existence is proven, atheism must therefore be a delusion since adamant belief in what is false is delusional.
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SOM – “I didn’t answer your questions because I don’t do stupid.” dont be modest. You’re doing really well at it.
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so are you deist or christian?
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what god is self-evident? Allah?
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I’ve yet to see you do much of anything else, but we digress – do you have any evidence you can provide on any of the topics we’ve discussed? OBJECTIVE, not SUBjective evidence?
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What about all of the evidence I produced, proving that Moses didn’t write the material attributed to him in the first five books of the Bible, in fact, didn’t write anything that his Mama could point to and say, “My little Moses wrote that!”
And before you say it’s all atheist BS, read the introduction to “The New American Bible,” the Catholic version of the King James, and see for yourself that they say it’s true as well.
Let’s stop the name-calling and get back on track – Comment on Moses?
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Silence of no mind is a fraud. Period.
A dickhead…but also a fraud.
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