Dear Kathy,
Since you graciously agreed (in our recent conversation) to let me present you with some examples of the Bible’s problems, I decided to do it in this way so it would have its own comment thread. As I’ve said, when I was a Christian, one strike against the Bible was not enough to shake my faith — maybe it only seemed problematic, maybe there was an explanation we hadn’t uncovered yet, maybe the historical accounts were wrong, etc. But as the problems began to mount up, I reached a point where I could no longer deny the fact that the Bible had actual errors.
A couple of suggestions before we begin. Try to be as open-minded about this as possible. As you go through these examples, ask yourself if God would allow such problems to exist in a message that he wanted all people to accept and believe? According to the Bible, whenever God sent someone a message, whether it was Pharaoh or Gideon or Nebuchadnezzar or Paul, they had no question whom it was from. They didn’t always follow it, as we see with people like Pharaoh and Solomon, but they didn’t question the source of the message or what it stated. So why would God operate differently today? Why would he want us to be so confused about his message that we’re able to question whether or not it’s really from him?
Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you come to the conclusion that the Bible has actual problems, that doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. There are a number of Christians who don’t believe in inerrancy. And even if you lose faith in the Christian god, that still doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. A number of people, including several of our founding fathers, were deists. I have a lot of sympathy for that view and plan to do a post on it soon.
Some of the items listed here will have links that provide additional information, especially when the issue is too detailed to list here. I hope that you’ll check out those links, since some of them are quite significant points. And regardless of how this article strikes you, I hope it will help serve as a great springboard to launch you into your own research.
Some of the Problems
Creation
The creation accounts in Genesis do not match what we’ve learned through science. This isn’t shocking news, but it bears looking into. Evolution and the Big Bang Theory had nothing to do with my deconversion, but I’ve learned more about both since leaving Christianity. It’s shocking how much misinformation I had been operating under. Not to say that all Christians are that way — that was simply my experience. But the evidence for both evolution and the Big Bang are far more substantial than I had ever realized. Two good resources for learning more about these issues are the following (though I’d also recommend checking out the recent Cosmos series, as well as some of the PBS NOVA specials):
Another problem with the creation accounts is that Genesis 1 says that plants and trees were made on the 3rd day, while man was made on the 6th. But Genesis 2:5-9 says that man was created before there were any plants or trees in the land. Also, the 1st chapter says that man was created after all the animals, but the 2nd chapter implies that it was the other way around. It seems strange that such discrepancies would exist only a chapter apart, but there are a number of textual clues that suggest the first 5 books of the Bible were assembled over a long period of time from various writings written by a number of different people. Many scholars believe that Genesis 1 and 2 represent two separate versions of the creation story that were both included because the compilers didn’t know which was more accurate. Whatever the reason, there’s no question that the differences exist and are hard to explain.
10 Plagues
During the 10 plagues, God afflicts all of Egypt’s livestock with a disease (Ex 9:1-7), and it specifies that it would affect the “horses, the donkeys, the camels, the herds, and the flocks.” We’re told that all of Egypt’s livestock died. But the later plague of boils was said to affect both man and beast (verse 10 of chapter 9). Maybe it meant non-livestock animals. But Ex 11:5 says that the death of the firstborn would also affect Egypt’s cattle, and in Exodus 14, Pharaoh pursues the Israelites with horses.
Hares Chew the Cud
Leviticus 11:6 tells us that hares chew the cud. They do not. Animals that chew the cud are called ruminants. When they eat plant matter, it goes to their first stomach to soften, and then it’s regurgitated to their mouth. They spend time re-chewing it, and then it is swallowed and fully digested. Ruminants (cows, sheep, goats, etc.) are recognizable because their chewing of the cud is very obvious. Hares (rabbits) don’t chew the cud; however, their mouths do move frequently, so it’s possible to see why some people may have assumed that they do chew the cud. Of course, God would know they didn’t, and this is why the passage is problematic. You can read more about this here.
Arphaxad
In the genealogy given in Genesis 11:10-12, we see that Noah fathered Shem and Shem fathered Arphaxad. At the age of 35, Arphaxad fathered Shelah. This information is confirmed in 1 Chron 1:18. But Luke 3:35-36 tells us that Arphaxad’s son was Cainan, and he was the father of Shelah.
Where does Luke get this information? It disagrees with the Old Testament, so who should we believe? Some have suggested that Genesis and 1 Chronicles simply left out Cainan for some reason. But why would they do that? To further complicate it, how could Cainan have fit in there? Genesis tells us that Arphaxad was 35 when he fathered Shelah. Does it really seem likely that Arphaxad became a grandfather by 35, especially when you consider the extreme old ages that people lived to at that time?
Another explanation is that some copyist messed up when copying Luke and Cainan is just a mistake. But this is not much better. First of all, the error would have needed to occur early for it to be in all our copies of Luke. Secondly, are we really comfortable saying that we have the inspired word of our creator, but it got messed up by some guy who wasn’t paying close attention? To me, that doesn’t lend a lot of credence to the idea of inspiration or inerrancy.
Instead, the most likely explanation is that Luke made a mistake. This, of course, would indicate that he was not inspired.
Problems in the Book of Daniel
In Daniel 5, the writer refers to Belshazzar as the son of Nebuchadnezzar 7 different times. Yet we know from multiple contemporary sources that Belshazzar’s father was Nabonidus, who was not related to Nebuchadnezzar. The same chapter says that Darius the Mede took over Babylon, but this person does not seem to have ever existed. Daniel says that he was the son of Ahaseurus, and in mentioning this, the author of Daniel indicates that he was thinking of a later ruler — the persian emperor Darius the Great, whose son was Ahaseurus. This post in particular goes into the problems surrounding the 5th chapter, but if you’d like to learn about the problems in the rest of the book, you can access each article in the series here.
Jairus’s Daughter
In Mark 5:23, Jairus finds Jesus and says that his daughter is at the point of death. While they’re on their way to the house, some of his servants find them on the way and say that she has died and there’s no point in troubling Jesus further.
However, in Matthew 9:18, Jairus already knows that his daughter has died, but tells Jesus that if he’ll lay his hands on her, she’ll live. This may seem like a minor difference, but honestly, there’s only one scenario that could be true. Either the girl was already dead, or she wasn’t. And if Jairus already knew she was dead, then there was no point in his servants coming to tell him that (so of course, they don’t appear in Matthew’s account).
The Centurion
This is similar to the previous issue. Matthew and Luke both record a centurion who asks Jesus to heal his sick servant. Matthew 8:5-13 says that the centurion himself comes before Jesus to ask for help. Luke 7:1-10 says that the Jewish elders went on his behalf, and then he sent servants to follow up. In Luke, Jesus never speaks to, or even sees, the centurion at all.
Hight Priest
In Mark 2:23-28, Jesus talks about the occasion from the Old Testament when David ate the showbread, which Jesus said was in the days of Abiathar the high priest. However, in 1 Samuel 21:1-6, it appears that Ahimelech was the high priest. Some have tried to answer this problem by saying that Abiathar was alive during that particular episode, so Jesus’ statement is still true. But that’s obviously not the intent of the passage. After all, we would correct anyone who said that the tragedy of 9/11 occurred during the days of President Barack Obama. He may have been alive at the time, but that event did not happen while he was President.
430 Years
Galatians 3:16-17 says this:
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
Here, Paul says that the law came 430 years after the promises were made to Abraham. But in Exodus 12:40-41, we see:
Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years. At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the LORD’s divisions left Egypt.
If the Israelites were in Egypt 430 years, then there could not have been 430 years between Abraham’s promises and the law. God made the promises to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3, and as we read on through Genesis, we see that Abraham had no children at this time. Later, he had a son named Isaac. When Isaac was 60 years old, he had Jacob (Gen 25:24-26), and Jacob had 12 sons that produced the 12 tribes of Israel. Already, we can see that some time has passed since Abraham received the promise. Once Jacob’s sons were all grown with families of their own, they finally settled in Egypt. Jacob was 130 years old at this time (Gen 47:9), and this marks the beginning of that 430 year period that the Israelites spent in Egypt.
That means that the time between the promise to Abraham and the giving of the law was actually over 600 years. So why did Paul say 430 years? I think it’s obvious that this was a simple mistake. He remembered the 430 year figure because that’s how much time the Israelites spent in Egypt, and so he simply misspoke. It’s not a big deal… except that he’s supposed to be inspired by God.
Jesus’ Birth
There are a number of issues surrounding Jesus’ birth. First, Matthew’s and Luke’s accounts contradict one another on virtually all the details, which you can read about here. Secondly, Matthew seems to invent an episode where Herod kills all the children in Bethlehem who are 2 and under, causing Mary, Joseph, and Jesus to flee to Egypt (instead of just returning home to Nazareth, because only Luke says that they started in Nazareth). Matthew does this in order to “fulfill” some Old Testament passages that actually have nothing to do with Jesus or killing babies. You can read about Matthew’s misuse of the Old Testament here — it’s quite blatant.
The Virgin Birth is one of the most famous aspects of Jesus’ story, and it was supposedly done in fulfillment of a prophecy from Isaiah. But it turns out that Isaiah was prophesying no such thing — he was talking about an event that was happening in his own time, and Matthew (once again) just appropriated the “prophecy” for his own devices. You can read all the details here.
Another problem concerning Jesus’ birth narratives is that Matthew and Luke both offer genealogies for Jesus, but they are completely different from one another. Worse, they don’t match the genealogies listed in the Old Testament, either. And Matthew claims that there was a pattern in the number of generations between Abraham and David, between David and the Babylonian captivity, and between the Babylonian captivity and Christ. But to get this neat division, he is forced to leave out some names. In other words, that pattern didn’t happen. You can read more about that here.
The Triumphal Entry
While not as blatant as most of these other issues, when Matthew recounts Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem, he once again borrows from the Old Testament, but seems to make a mistake in his implementation. See here for more info.
Judas’ Death
Judas is well known for being the disciple that betrayed Jesus, but what’s not as well known is there are two different accounts of his death, and it’s very hard to reconcile them. According to Matthew, Judas threw his money down at the chief priests’ feet and went out and hanged himself. We’re not told where he did this. The priests then take the money, and instead of putting it back in the treasury (since it’s blood money), they buy a field to use for burying strangers. Because they bought the field with this money, it’s called the “Field of Blood.”
According to Acts, Judas bought a field with his money (we’re not told that he was remorseful), and he somehow fell down, bursting open in the middle and bleeding to death. The field was called “Field of Blood” after that because of the manner in which Judas died.
To make things more complicated, Matthew (of course) says that this happened in accordance with Jeremiah’s prophecy, but there’s nothing in Jeremiah that matches up. The closest reference comes from Zechariah, not Jeremiah.
These issues really complicate the notion of divine inspiration, and you can read more about them here.
The Crucifixion
There are several big problems with the way the gospels record the events of Jesus’ death, including the fact that different times of day are given for it, and even different days altogether. You can read more about this here.
The Resurrection
There are also a number of problems concerning the resurrection, some minor, some major. They’re too involved to get into here, but you can read all about them here and here.
The Problem of Hell
The notion of Hell is fraught with problems. It might even surprise you to learn that the Bible’s teachings on the afterlife change dramatically between the Old and New Testaments. I go into detail about Hell’s problems here, here, and here.
The Problem of Evil
Another huge problem for Christianity is the problem of evil, which I talk about here. This post also addresses the “problem of Heaven.”
The Bible’s Morality
While a number of people believe that the Christian god is the source of all morality, the Bible is actually filled with some monstrous acts that are either commanded by God, done with his consent, or carried out by him directly. I talk about some specific examples here, and I address some of the common responses to them here.
Conclusion
Kathy, there are a number of other examples that could be given, including the prophecy of Tyre that we’ve been discussing. But to me, these are some of the most significant and clear-cut problems. We could try to manufacture explanations for every one of these — some might be more believable than others. But why should we have to? If a perfect God inspired this book, why should it contain so many discrepancies? And honestly, some of these issues can’t be explained. They’re just wrong. The problems go well beyond internal contradictions and unfulfilled prophecies. There are problems of authorship, problems with the doctrines, and problems with the way the texts were written, transcribed, and compiled.
I’m sure you’ve spent your time as a Christian trying to reach those who are lost. You’ve always believed that Christianity is truth, and it’s the one thing that everyone needs. But could it be that Christianity is just as false as every other religion in the world? And if that’s the case, wouldn’t you want to leave it behind? When one is dedicated to finding truth, they have to be prepared to follow it wherever it leads. It’s not always easy or popular. It’s not even a guarantee that you’re right. All it means is that you follow the evidence where it leads to the best of your ability. If you find out that you’re wrong about something, you adjust course when the evidence dictates. If God exists, and if he’s righteous, what more could he ask for than that? I’ll close with my favorite quote:
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
— Marcus Aurelius
Finding Truth 
“Kathy, I don’t believe that a God who created everyone would have the right to do whatever he wanted with them and still be called “good,” much less “loving.” ”
Nate ou are just inserting in your own human frailty, sin and ego into the character of God as if he were human. God does not do “what ever he wants” with people. He does according to his righteousness. YOU don’t believe that includes any judgement according to his omniscience but ti does. OF course you don’t believe in any of it but i mean if you are to understand where Kathy is coming from
” to gut her so that she’s forced to live just long enough to witness the death of her unborn child. Imagine being an Israelite in the time of Joshua and to have the job of going into cities and killing everyone, including small children. Imagine their terrible cries of fear and pleading; imagine the parents trying to shield their children to no avail.”
when you are painting these pictures don’t forget to paint the ones where they offered up their own children to false gods or did any of the atrocities they did, I’ll reserve my judgement on the children. You might be surprised (if you believed in an afterlife) what happened to them.
In this tellings you do you always tend to leave out why it was done – exactly as i alluded to – future considerations . Still I don’t know why you are getting so upset. IF these are all made up stories no one really died and if the Bible is reliable then it has to be viewed from the context of theism not athiesm
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You’re right — I don’t believe these stories are true. Nevertheless, as Thomas Paine said, they are some of the most blasphemous things anyone could say about a god, if he’s a good one. It’s just another indication that these men were not actually inspired at all.
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I knew my def. of liberal was going to generate some debates.. I’m trying to keep up with everyone’s comments.. I definitely want to address every one of them.. well, the coherent ones anyway.. 🙂
Mike, your last comment nailed it.. again.. hopefully it won’t be too difficult for atheists to grasp
your point/ sincere perspective.
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“Again, you ignore the enormous FACT that God and humans are NOT on the same level. And also the enormous FACT that He knows MORE than we do.. we are clueless in the big picture. ”
This is always what they miss Kathy and I think you have little hope of them seeing anything else. Even on a human level it depends on whose doing the action
I am quite allowed to sleep with a woman tonight that no one else can because I am her husband.
I can take a car out of a drive way because well its belongs to me.
I can kill a many any time I want if he’s standing in my living room unannounced and a threat to my family.
and God if he knows the future as completely as the past he can call for something I can’t but interestingly he seldom ever has – only in a few isolated cases many thousand of years ago he made a call based on his omniscience he seldom ever did again in the hundreds of recorded years in the Bible. What I don’t know about that call is as the book says elsewhere – legion.
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“Mike, your last comment nailed it.. again.. hopefully it won’t be too difficult for atheists to grasp
your point/ sincere perspective.”
My lady I would not hold my breath too long on that or you might turn the color of your jeans
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RE: “IF these are all made up stories no one really died” – you don’t get it – it goes to the character of the believer, who believes these stories really happened, yet still sits in church every Sunday going, “Rah, Rah, Rah, Sis Boom Bah – yeeeeeeeeeeay GOD!”
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Aw, how sweet – a mutual admiration society of two – anybody suspicious that they’re working together –?
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“You’re right — I don’t believe these stories are true. Nevertheless, as Thomas Paine said, they are some of the most blasphemous things anyone could say about a god, if he’s a good one. ”
and what authority is Thomas Paine on blasphemy? Nate you thought like an atheist so you came to atheist conclusions. Thats no surprise. If you only see the physical and temporal then yes babies dying is horrible but unfortunately they don’t all grow up to be sugar and spice and everything nice we like to input to babies because they are cute.
Think about it Nate. I was a baby ….don’t you feel a little different about babies now? 🙂 🙂
Most theology suggest that babies go to heaven (a very important verse being one in which God Takes David’s child). lets say it turns out that heaven is real
(I know inconceivable to you). I wouldn’t think the babies would be even one hundredth as upset as you are. Who knows they may be even a little miffed at your idea idea that they shouldn’t have been sent there especially if their parents had raised them because they probably wouldn’t be there
such a thought just smacks outrageous to you but thats because – you thought like an atheist
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Mike, I thought the bible said we were created in God’s image ? Then why wouldn’t we expect him to behave like we are suppose to ???
Still waiting on your sources and their credentials for the people who
1.)“The ammonites were suppose to be a mystical creation of the bIble but then ooops evidence was found.
2.) the kingdom of David was supposed to be mythical but oops then they found evidence for that
3.)Belshazzar that Nate mentions (and claims to know for fact was not related to Nebuchadnezzar) was for claimed for MANY years according to Skeptics a completely made up character but then ooops they found evidence of that and then
He was never a ruler of Babyon but oops that held up too”
Who were the scholars and their credentials who claim 1 & 3 didn’t exist ???
Answer to 2.) BTW they have found 1 piece of evidence with “A” David’s name on it. Here is what the Jewish Virtual Library has to say about that 1 piece of evidence.
“Until very recently, there was no evidence outside the Bible for the existence of King David. There are no references to him in Egyptian, Syrian or Assyrian documents of the time, and the many archaeological digs in the City of David failed to turn up so much as a mention of his name. Then, on July 21, 1993, a team of archaeologists led by Prof. Avraham Biran, excavating Tel Dan in the northern Galilee, found a triangular piece of basalt rock, measuring 23 x 36 cm. inscribed in Aramaic. It was subsequently identified as part of a victory pillar erected by the king of Syria and later smashed by an Israelite ruler. The inscription, which dates to the ninth century BCE, that is to say, about a century after David was thought to have ruled Israel, includes the words Beit David (“House” or “Dynasty” of David”). It is the first near-contemporaneous reference to David ever found. It is not conclusive; but it does strongly indicate that a king called David established a dynasty in Israel during the relevant period.”
If WE were using just 1 piece of evidence to support any of our claims and scholars referred to it as “Not conclusive” YOU would laugh it off instantly !
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Hi Nate.. you said:
“Kathy, let’s think about God’s sacrifice of his son. Jesus knew exactly what awaited him after his death — he would reign in Heaven. No other person has ever had that kind of knowledge when facing death. He did not have to experience the fear of oblivion that everyone else experiences. And while death by crucifixion is horrible, there are worse and more painful ways to die as well. Jesus had a really, really bad day.”
Have you ever witnessed via tv or in person.. when a death row inmate’s day finally comes?
They’ve spent years thinking about that day.. many can’t even walk to the room/ chair/bed without being helped. Jesus knew His whole life what was awaiting Him. It wasn’t a “bad day”.. it was His whole life. And it was torture of the worst kind. “The Passion of the Crist” gives a good idea of what He went through. “a bad day”?? And I haven’t even addressed the emotional toll.. knowing He would bear the sins of all mankind.. knowing at that time that His Father who loved Him and whom He loved and lived His life for would reject Him as He bore our sins. The time when He would need the Father the most. “a bad day”?? Nate you are engaging in incredible ignorance by not acknowledging these things. This is what I meant earlier.. these are REAL stories.. of real events.. of REAL people.. with the same feelings, emotional and physical that you have. Jesus felt all of it. Until you’ve looked at the Bible from that “possible” perspective.. you haven’t been objective.
And to say that He didn’t need to do it is the ultimate ignorance.. God wouldn’t go through this if He didn’t have to in order to save us. His sacrifice was the most amazing display of love in existence.. But instead of considering all of these things, atheists hastily decide that they just know more than God.. too bad you couldn’t tell Him He didn’t need to go through all of that horror.. you could have spared Him all that suffering.
Sorry for my tone.. it’s NOT directed at you personally, I’ve heard all this before.. it’s directed at the overall blatant deliberate CHOSEN ignorance of those who want to create their OWN truth.. because their pride and ego rejects can’t allow them to accept THE Truth revealed to them in the Bible.
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“I was a baby ….don’t you feel a little different about babies now? 🙂 🙂” – Not at all, all babies are born innocent, but along the way, some, like you, get warped and twisted by their parents and significant others. Sad, really.
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“I thought the bible said we were created in God’s image ?” – Does that mean god has a belly-button? Did Adam and Eve have belly-buttons? If so, why? Definitely food for thought – speaking of food —
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Yes, outside evidence that supports the truth of the Bible.. I don’t get your point. –Kathy
My point is what others have been trying to say again and again. Try reading sources that disagree with the bible and then form your opinions on what is true and what isn’t. When you limit your research only to that which “supports the truth of the Bible,” you are NOT looking at it from an objective, neutral position. You are simply confirming what you already believe.
I would daresay the folks on this blog that continue to disagree with you (and Mike) are those who have not only read the bible (as well as the “evidence that supports” it), but have ALSO thoroughly investigated the claims made against it. In the end, they found the latter carried the most weight. This may not work the same for you, but you’ll never know until you try.
As several have already commented, they have been in the same place that you are. In other words, there simply was NO OTHER WAY to see it but that GOD was the be-all and end-all. But somewhere along the way, they discovered the fallacy of this belief and became non-believers (notice, I did not say “atheists” as not every non-believer totally rejects the supernatural, e.g., Deists).
Kathy, I don’t disrespect your faith in the “Sovereign God,” but I do feel you are living in a bubble. And I think the original intent of Nate’s posting to you was to try and poke just a tiny hole in that bubble so you might see what’s on the outside. (Forgive me, Nate, if I’m seeing this incorrectly.)
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Good point Arch ! Maybe God does have a belly-button. Maybe that’s the way HE was created. 🙂
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“atheists hastily decide that they just know more than God..” – not at all, atheists decide, and usually not at all hastily, I was six when I first began having doubts – that we know more than the superstitious idiots that made up all of those stories and passed them off as the truth. Any boy or girl with a public High School education knows more today than those guys learned in their lifetimes.
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John Z. You provided great points for Kathy to consider.
“What you don’t discern is that God and human beings are not the same.
God created human beings. He has the sovereign right to do with us as He wants.
You have to look at the TOTAL picture of the Old Testament to understand why God
“orders” people killed or allows horrible things to happen. Atheists don’t want to do that.”
Her answer above is troubling at best. He has the sovereign right to do with us as He wants. Atrocities ? What atrocities ? You have to look at the Total picture , John !
Pretty hard core and scary.
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Ken, it’s frightening. I guess Kathy’s god coined the term: Do as I say, not as I do.
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@kc & John..
You both continue to fail to grasp the difference between God and man. God knows ALL, man does not. Read Mike’s comment @ 5:43pm.
Boy, the pride and arrogance sure runs deep with liberals.
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“I guess Kathy’s god coined the term: Do as I say, not as I do.”
I was raised to be a biblical literalist. The points you made about god to Kathy were the deal breakers for me but it did take awhile.
My final straw was when I conducted a bible study with other businessmen and the topic was David and his sin with Bathseba. In 2 Sam 12 : 11 “This is what the Lord says: Because of what you have done, I will cause your own household to rebel against you. I will give your wives to another man before your very eyes, and he will go to bed with them in public view. 12 You did it secretly, but I will make this happen to you openly in the sight of all Israel.” AND
13 Then David confessed to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”
Nathan replied, “Yes, but the Lord has forgiven you, and you won’t die for this sin. 14 Nevertheless, because you have shown utter contempt for the word of the Lord[a] by doing this, your child will die.”
Totally illogical . But Kathy says it is god’s sovereign right to do this and we need to see the Total Picture
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Nate said..
“It’s funny to me that you are so dismissive of Islam while thinking your own religion is completely rational and well-supported. Really think for a moment about what it would be like if you had been born in Saudi Arabia. No doubt, you’d be a fervent believer in Allah and view Christians as the infidel. Can’t you see how impervious to evidence everyone’s beliefs are? It takes real work to try to strip away the preconceptions we’re given when we’re young and look at things objectively.”
I dismiss Islam because I know about it’s god and it’s teachings/ beliefs. And I believe in the God of the Bible for the very same reasons and also because of God’s presence in my life.
When people are little / young, yes, they usually aren’t mature enough to think for themselves, they just obey their culture/ parents etc. But, adults fully understand that they have freedoms and choices.. EXCEPT if the religion they are brought up in is Islam or Mormonism as 2 good examples.. neither respects our right to choose what to believe/ follow. They both use intimidation and death (Islam) if you try to think for yourself. This is not true of Christianity. God gave us free will, so we could CHOOSE Him. “allah” desires to force people to follow him but apparently couldn’t make human beings do this himself and instead uses terrorists and violence. These are completely DIFFERENT religions. Well, Islam is a religion.. Christianity is a faith.. something you can’t force through threat of death.
Just learn with an open mind about Islam and Christianity and then you’ll understand the differences.
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“Boy, the pride and arrogance sure runs deep with liberals.”
Kathy , it’s not with pride and arrogance that we comment about you and Mike. It is with sadness.
I won’t stoop to berating you.
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“They both use intimidation and death (Islam) if you try to think for yourself. This is not true of Christianity. God gave us free will, so we could CHOOSE Him. ”
Yes and IF I choose not to serve YOUR god, I receive eternal life in HELL. And you don’t consider this coercion by intimidation ?
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Mike may be your best bud, or your husband, or your Dad, but he hasn’t anything to say that any of us here want to hear. You claim the apostles were “real” people – here’s a REAL, real person, on the near-death of his daughter:
http://jerichobrisance.com/2014/06/25/prayer-and-most-desperate-paisley-part-5-1/
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Ruth, you said:
“What do you make of the many people who wear the Christian label who support a woman’s right to choose and gay marriage? Furthermore, I’m a big proponent of keeping our freedoms, but how is having them stripped away anti-God? Every teaching I can find on the subject within the Bible basically says to follow God no matter what lot in life you were given, whether slave or free. It does encourage slaves that if they can obtain their freedom there’s nothing wrong in that, but it doesn’t guarantee freedom.”
I see those ppl as not obeying God’s will. I can’t know what is in their hearts but I can’t reconcile a claim to love God and also support taking innocent life that He loves and created and support something that is destructive to His creation.
” I’m a big proponent of keeping our freedoms, but how is having them stripped away anti-God?”
Ruth, that’s what is at the root of the anti God / liberal movement.. if liberals can take away freedoms, including/ ESPECIALLY freedom of religion, they’ve made a HUGE accomplishment in the fight against God and the saving of souls.
And yes, the teaching is to follow God.. but it’s something we must CHOOSE to do.. or not do as so many here have clearly chosen. You are using your freedom that God gave you.
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““Boy, the pride and arrogance sure runs deep with liberals.”
Kathy , it’s not with pride and arrogance that we comment about you and Mike. It is with sadness.
I won’t stoop to berating you.”
My comment had NOTHING to do with your comments about me and Mike.
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