Agnosticism, Atheism, Bible Study, Christianity, Faith, God, Morality, Religion, Truth

Letter to Kathy (the Bible Has Problems)

Dear Kathy,

Since you graciously agreed (in our recent conversation) to let me present you with some examples of the Bible’s problems, I decided to do it in this way so it would have its own comment thread. As I’ve said, when I was a Christian, one strike against the Bible was not enough to shake my faith — maybe it only seemed problematic, maybe there was an explanation we hadn’t uncovered yet, maybe the historical accounts were wrong, etc. But as the problems began to mount up, I reached a point where I could no longer deny the fact that the Bible had actual errors.

A couple of suggestions before we begin. Try to be as open-minded about this as possible. As you go through these examples, ask yourself if God would allow such problems to exist in a message that he wanted all people to accept and believe? According to the Bible, whenever God sent someone a message, whether it was Pharaoh or Gideon or Nebuchadnezzar or Paul, they had no question whom it was from. They didn’t always follow it, as we see with people like Pharaoh and Solomon, but they didn’t question the source of the message or what it stated. So why would God operate differently today? Why would he want us to be so confused about his message that we’re able to question whether or not it’s really from him?

Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you come to the conclusion that the Bible has actual problems, that doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. There are a number of Christians who don’t believe in inerrancy. And even if you lose faith in the Christian god, that still doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. A number of people, including several of our founding fathers, were deists. I have a lot of sympathy for that view and plan to do a post on it soon.

Some of the items listed here will have links that provide additional information, especially when the issue is too detailed to list here. I hope that you’ll check out those links, since some of them are quite significant points. And regardless of how this article strikes you, I hope it will help serve as a great springboard to launch you into your own research.

Some of the Problems

Creation
The creation accounts in Genesis do not match what we’ve learned through science. This isn’t shocking news, but it bears looking into. Evolution and the Big Bang Theory had nothing to do with my deconversion, but I’ve learned more about both since leaving Christianity. It’s shocking how much misinformation I had been operating under. Not to say that all Christians are that way — that was simply my experience. But the evidence for both evolution and the Big Bang are far more substantial than I had ever realized. Two good resources for learning more about these issues are the following (though I’d also recommend checking out the recent Cosmos series, as well as some of the PBS NOVA specials):

Marco’s Daddy and the Beginning of Life on Earth


http://talkorigins.org/

Another problem with the creation accounts is that Genesis 1 says that plants and trees were made on the 3rd day, while man was made on the 6th. But Genesis 2:5-9 says that man was created before there were any plants or trees in the land. Also, the 1st chapter says that man was created after all the animals, but the 2nd chapter implies that it was the other way around. It seems strange that such discrepancies would exist only a chapter apart, but there are a number of textual clues that suggest the first 5 books of the Bible were assembled over a long period of time from various writings written by a number of different people. Many scholars believe that Genesis 1 and 2 represent two separate versions of the creation story that were both included because the compilers didn’t know which was more accurate. Whatever the reason, there’s no question that the differences exist and are hard to explain.

10 Plagues
During the 10 plagues, God afflicts all of Egypt’s livestock with a disease (Ex 9:1-7), and it specifies that it would affect the “horses, the donkeys, the camels, the herds, and the flocks.” We’re told that all of Egypt’s livestock died. But the later plague of boils was said to affect both man and beast (verse 10 of chapter 9). Maybe it meant non-livestock animals. But Ex 11:5 says that the death of the firstborn would also affect Egypt’s cattle, and in Exodus 14, Pharaoh pursues the Israelites with horses.

Hares Chew the Cud
Leviticus 11:6 tells us that hares chew the cud. They do not. Animals that chew the cud are called ruminants. When they eat plant matter, it goes to their first stomach to soften, and then it’s regurgitated to their mouth. They spend time re-chewing it, and then it is swallowed and fully digested. Ruminants (cows, sheep, goats, etc.) are recognizable because their chewing of the cud is very obvious. Hares (rabbits) don’t chew the cud; however, their mouths do move frequently, so it’s possible to see why some people may have assumed that they do chew the cud. Of course, God would know they didn’t, and this is why the passage is problematic. You can read more about this here.

Arphaxad
In the genealogy given in Genesis 11:10-12, we see that Noah fathered Shem and Shem fathered Arphaxad. At the age of 35, Arphaxad fathered Shelah. This information is confirmed in 1 Chron 1:18. But Luke 3:35-36 tells us that Arphaxad’s son was Cainan, and he was the father of Shelah.

Where does Luke get this information? It disagrees with the Old Testament, so who should we believe? Some have suggested that Genesis and 1 Chronicles simply left out Cainan for some reason. But why would they do that? To further complicate it, how could Cainan have fit in there? Genesis tells us that Arphaxad was 35 when he fathered Shelah. Does it really seem likely that Arphaxad became a grandfather by 35, especially when you consider the extreme old ages that people lived to at that time?

Another explanation is that some copyist messed up when copying Luke and Cainan is just a mistake. But this is not much better. First of all, the error would have needed to occur early for it to be in all our copies of Luke. Secondly, are we really comfortable saying that we have the inspired word of our creator, but it got messed up by some guy who wasn’t paying close attention? To me, that doesn’t lend a lot of credence to the idea of inspiration or inerrancy.

Instead, the most likely explanation is that Luke made a mistake. This, of course, would indicate that he was not inspired.

Problems in the Book of Daniel
In Daniel 5, the writer refers to Belshazzar as the son of Nebuchadnezzar 7 different times. Yet we know from multiple contemporary sources that Belshazzar’s father was Nabonidus, who was not related to Nebuchadnezzar. The same chapter says that Darius the Mede took over Babylon, but this person does not seem to have ever existed. Daniel says that he was the son of Ahaseurus, and in mentioning this, the author of Daniel indicates that he was thinking of a later ruler — the persian emperor Darius the Great, whose son was Ahaseurus. This post in particular goes into the problems surrounding the 5th chapter, but if you’d like to learn about the problems in the rest of the book, you can access each article in the series here.

Jairus’s Daughter
In Mark 5:23, Jairus finds Jesus and says that his daughter is at the point of death. While they’re on their way to the house, some of his servants find them on the way and say that she has died and there’s no point in troubling Jesus further.

However, in Matthew 9:18, Jairus already knows that his daughter has died, but tells Jesus that if he’ll lay his hands on her, she’ll live. This may seem like a minor difference, but honestly, there’s only one scenario that could be true. Either the girl was already dead, or she wasn’t. And if Jairus already knew she was dead, then there was no point in his servants coming to tell him that (so of course, they don’t appear in Matthew’s account).

The Centurion
This is similar to the previous issue. Matthew and Luke both record a centurion who asks Jesus to heal his sick servant. Matthew 8:5-13 says that the centurion himself comes before Jesus to ask for help. Luke 7:1-10 says that the Jewish elders went on his behalf, and then he sent servants to follow up. In Luke, Jesus never speaks to, or even sees, the centurion at all.

Hight Priest
In Mark 2:23-28, Jesus talks about the occasion from the Old Testament when David ate the showbread, which Jesus said was in the days of Abiathar the high priest. However, in 1 Samuel 21:1-6, it appears that Ahimelech was the high priest. Some have tried to answer this problem by saying that Abiathar was alive during that particular episode, so Jesus’ statement is still true. But that’s obviously not the intent of the passage. After all, we would correct anyone who said that the tragedy of 9/11 occurred during the days of President Barack Obama. He may have been alive at the time, but that event did not happen while he was President.

430 Years
Galatians 3:16-17 says this:

The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.

Here, Paul says that the law came 430 years after the promises were made to Abraham. But in Exodus 12:40-41, we see:

Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years. At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the LORD’s divisions left Egypt.

If the Israelites were in Egypt 430 years, then there could not have been 430 years between Abraham’s promises and the law. God made the promises to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3, and as we read on through Genesis, we see that Abraham had no children at this time. Later, he had a son named Isaac. When Isaac was 60 years old, he had Jacob (Gen 25:24-26), and Jacob had 12 sons that produced the 12 tribes of Israel. Already, we can see that some time has passed since Abraham received the promise. Once Jacob’s sons were all grown with families of their own, they finally settled in Egypt. Jacob was 130 years old at this time (Gen 47:9), and this marks the beginning of that 430 year period that the Israelites spent in Egypt.

That means that the time between the promise to Abraham and the giving of the law was actually over 600 years. So why did Paul say 430 years? I think it’s obvious that this was a simple mistake. He remembered the 430 year figure because that’s how much time the Israelites spent in Egypt, and so he simply misspoke. It’s not a big deal… except that he’s supposed to be inspired by God.

Jesus’ Birth
There are a number of issues surrounding Jesus’ birth. First, Matthew’s and Luke’s accounts contradict one another on virtually all the details, which you can read about here. Secondly, Matthew seems to invent an episode where Herod kills all the children in Bethlehem who are 2 and under, causing Mary, Joseph, and Jesus to flee to Egypt (instead of just returning home to Nazareth, because only Luke says that they started in Nazareth). Matthew does this in order to “fulfill” some Old Testament passages that actually have nothing to do with Jesus or killing babies. You can read about Matthew’s misuse of the Old Testament here — it’s quite blatant.

The Virgin Birth is one of the most famous aspects of Jesus’ story, and it was supposedly done in fulfillment of a prophecy from Isaiah. But it turns out that Isaiah was prophesying no such thing — he was talking about an event that was happening in his own time, and Matthew (once again) just appropriated the “prophecy” for his own devices. You can read all the details here.

Another problem concerning Jesus’ birth narratives is that Matthew and Luke both offer genealogies for Jesus, but they are completely different from one another. Worse, they don’t match the genealogies listed in the Old Testament, either. And Matthew claims that there was a pattern in the number of generations between Abraham and David, between David and the Babylonian captivity, and between the Babylonian captivity and Christ. But to get this neat division, he is forced to leave out some names. In other words, that pattern didn’t happen. You can read more about that here.

The Triumphal Entry
While not as blatant as most of these other issues, when Matthew recounts Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem, he once again borrows from the Old Testament, but seems to make a mistake in his implementation. See here for more info.

Judas’ Death
Judas is well known for being the disciple that betrayed Jesus, but what’s not as well known is there are two different accounts of his death, and it’s very hard to reconcile them. According to Matthew, Judas threw his money down at the chief priests’ feet and went out and hanged himself. We’re not told where he did this. The priests then take the money, and instead of putting it back in the treasury (since it’s blood money), they buy a field to use for burying strangers. Because they bought the field with this money, it’s called the “Field of Blood.”

According to Acts, Judas bought a field with his money (we’re not told that he was remorseful), and he somehow fell down, bursting open in the middle and bleeding to death. The field was called “Field of Blood” after that because of the manner in which Judas died.

To make things more complicated, Matthew (of course) says that this happened in accordance with Jeremiah’s prophecy, but there’s nothing in Jeremiah that matches up. The closest reference comes from Zechariah, not Jeremiah.

These issues really complicate the notion of divine inspiration, and you can read more about them here.

The Crucifixion
There are several big problems with the way the gospels record the events of Jesus’ death, including the fact that different times of day are given for it, and even different days altogether. You can read more about this here.

The Resurrection
There are also a number of problems concerning the resurrection, some minor, some major. They’re too involved to get into here, but you can read all about them here and here.

The Problem of Hell
The notion of Hell is fraught with problems. It might even surprise you to learn that the Bible’s teachings on the afterlife change dramatically between the Old and New Testaments. I go into detail about Hell’s problems here, here, and here.

The Problem of Evil
Another huge problem for Christianity is the problem of evil, which I talk about here. This post also addresses the “problem of Heaven.”

The Bible’s Morality
While a number of people believe that the Christian god is the source of all morality, the Bible is actually filled with some monstrous acts that are either commanded by God, done with his consent, or carried out by him directly. I talk about some specific examples here, and I address some of the common responses to them here.

Conclusion

Kathy, there are a number of other examples that could be given, including the prophecy of Tyre that we’ve been discussing. But to me, these are some of the most significant and clear-cut problems. We could try to manufacture explanations for every one of these — some might be more believable than others. But why should we have to? If a perfect God inspired this book, why should it contain so many discrepancies? And honestly, some of these issues can’t be explained. They’re just wrong. The problems go well beyond internal contradictions and unfulfilled prophecies. There are problems of authorship, problems with the doctrines, and problems with the way the texts were written, transcribed, and compiled.

I’m sure you’ve spent your time as a Christian trying to reach those who are lost. You’ve always believed that Christianity is truth, and it’s the one thing that everyone needs. But could it be that Christianity is just as false as every other religion in the world? And if that’s the case, wouldn’t you want to leave it behind? When one is dedicated to finding truth, they have to be prepared to follow it wherever it leads. It’s not always easy or popular. It’s not even a guarantee that you’re right. All it means is that you follow the evidence where it leads to the best of your ability. If you find out that you’re wrong about something, you adjust course when the evidence dictates. If God exists, and if he’s righteous, what more could he ask for than that? I’ll close with my favorite quote:

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
— Marcus Aurelius

1,782 thoughts on “Letter to Kathy (the Bible Has Problems)”

  1. “Surely this just has to be a piss-take? ”Thwarting such an evil intent”. Honestly, is this bloke serious?”

    Couldn’t be more. Don’t you people CLAIM to have been Christians before? isn’t that your creed, testament and theme song? So why would you be surprised or even expect that a Christian would consider your intent Evil? if that is bewildering to you then you betray your claim. Further seeing as how you call Christians and liars and claim the high ground on morality then surely you know such lying is evil so whats good for the goose the (NT writers and believers) is good for the gander (you trying to get christians to renounce their faith)

    “Truly, the funniest comment on the entire thread. In fact one of the more hilarious xian utterings I’ve heard in ages.”

    Then you have another deficit being an atheist. If you were a believer reading your posts you would have a much higher level of entertainment

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  2. See any differences in pronouns in those translations? Try again

    They all say the same thing: Yahweh failed to deliver the goods!

    “The Lord answered, ‘Judah shall go up; I have given the land into their hands.’” (Joshua 19:2)

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  3. Why should YOU, when I don’t? It’s the kind of thing I say in the morning when I wake up and I can’t remember what I did with my head. It doesn’t denote a meaning, just a feeling – say it, you’ll see what I mean – try, “Oh bazzfazz!” You’ll feel better, I promise —

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  4. “They all say the same thing: ”

    ROFL never make a fact get in your way when your “explicitly states that God could not drive out” barff died the death

    ““The Lord answered, ‘Judah shall go up; I have given the land into their hands.’” (Joshua 19:2)”

    Yawn….First get your reference in order. Its Judges not Joshua. Second yes he had and if you were not just a quote miner you would know that was based on this promise

    “Exodus 34:11-12 (KJV)
    11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
    12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:

    Which explicitly tells them if in the process they made a covenant with the inhabitants there would problems. Guess what Ron my boy

    Judges 2:1-3 (KJV)
    1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
    2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this?
    3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you. ”

    along the way at several point in Judges 1 they in fact disobeyed and when that happens yes the strength of the enemy can be a factor. At one moment you can be taking the hills and the lord is with you and the next week or month you try to take the valley and well not so much.

    Simple. No good point as usual.

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  5. Thanks, Ron – I bookmarked it. Looks like he basically does what I do. My website went down last Thursday, as the company decided to discontinue the format I was using, so I need to find a new company and I’ll be up and running again – once I am, I’ll invite you to check it out.

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  6. Apparently Mike doesn’t understand numerical order. Chapter 2 follows chapter 1, and nowhere within Chapter 1, verses 1-18 (and especially not within verse 19) does it state that Judah makes a covenant with the inhabitants of the land.

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  7. Ron said:

    ” “Sources please..”

    There available on the Internet. Seek and ye shall find. :)”

    Why would I expend the energy and time to search for something that I know
    is false? Think Ron! …think!

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  8. Arch’s comment:

    “The compelling evidence for God is abundant and easy to obtain.” – but WHICH god? There is no “compelling evidence” for ANY of them.”

    *************************************

    Again, the compelling evidence for the God of the Bible is abundant.. the Bible and all of it’s witnesses and witnesses today like Meriam.. and the fulfilled prophecies.

    No other god has anything comparable.

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  9. Why would I expend the energy and time to search for something that I know
    is false?

    So you’ve already made a decision prior to examining the evidence? What does that say for your claims of being objective, Kathy?

    And it’s a two-way street. I’ve already provided you with multiple links to my other sources. Thus far you’ve proffered only one—an op-ed in the religion section of HuffPo (not exactly an unbiased source, now, is it?).

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  10. “Apparently Mike doesn’t understand numerical order. Chapter 2 follows chapter 1, and nowhere within Chapter 1, verses 1-18 (and especially not within verse 19) does it state that Judah makes a covenant with the inhabitants of the land.”

    Apparently ron is too young and wet behind the ears to know that a passage can refer back in time to something that happened before as Chapter two without a doubt does. Your ability to put up a flopped point is even worse than KK

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  11. “And it’s a two-way street. I’ve already provided you with multiple links to my other sources. ”

    lets face it Ron. In regard to spittle you are not as bad as Ark and Arch bu tin terms of substance you are probably the worse poster so no Christian is going to run around looking for your sources because they know they are not going to be very good

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  12. Ron said:

    “That’s a testable claim. Please, gather a group of true believers (I’ll let you decide who qualifies as a true believer) and go clear out an entire hospital of patients. I’ll become a believer when I catch it on the six o’clock news.”

    Jesus also said we could move mountains (if we believe that we have received it).. it’s a level of faith that is clearly not easy to obtain.

    So, the question would be.. is there anyone on earth who does have this level of faith and why aren’t they healing all the sick people in the world?.. right?

    And if you ask that, then why not ask why they won’t also stop people from hurting / killing others, from stealing, from oppressing others, violating rights, and on and on..

    So, then the question would by, why doesn’t God just stop all the bad things from happening to begin with?

    And that leads us to “free will”.. if free will isn’t allowed to exist, then love can’t exist.

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  13. “Again, the compelling evidence for the God of the Bible is abundant.. the Bible and all of it’s witnesses and witnesses today like Meriam.. and the fulfilled prophecies.”

    and they don’t know the half of it because all they read the Bible for is making up alleged contradictions. They are all about trying to cut down each tree but never see the forrest.

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  14. Mike said:

    “Kathy you will find that Ron is just about the silliest poster on here and likes to quote mine passages endlessly. as you can see he doesn’t even get that one cannot ask in faith as a test…lol…. neither can true believers have faith for other people No t even Jesus claimed that

    Matthew 13:58 (HCSB)
    58 And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

    He never improves”

    Excellent point Mike! thanks. Atheists take note!

    As if that’ll happen..

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  15. ““Again, the compelling evidence for the God of the Bible is abundant.. the Bible and all of it’s witnesses and witnesses today like Meriam.. and the fulfilled prophecies.”

    and they don’t know the half of it because all they read the Bible for is making up alleged contradictions. They are all about trying to cut down each tree but never see the forrest.”

    Another excellent point.. it’s like the Pharisees.. even though Jesus was performing amazing miracles they couldn’t deny, all they were focused on was destroying Him.. they couldn’t register that they were fighting God and that they would never win. This is why we are told to read the Bible and use it as a guide.. it contains all the lessons we need.

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  16. Meriam’s fear of eternal torment is proof of nothing, except that she feared eternal torment.

    The majority of the Bible was written by anonymous sources, about whom we know nothing, regarding their reliability, their veracity, nor their agenda – or in the case of the Revelation ramblings, even of their sanity..

    Many of the prophecies were misinterpreted by NT writers, and prove nothing in and of themselves, not even for the local events they were intended to predict, and some of the prophecies were written AFTER the event they were intended to prophecy – if I were to write a book today, predicting that John Kennedy would be assassinated in 1963, then make it appear the book was written in 1920, I would be hailed far and wide as a prophet, at least until the truth was uncovered.

    Possibly it’s a personality flaw, but I find it extremely difficult to abide a fool.

    As I’ve stated, you don’t know the first thing about the process of debate, regardless of what they told you in High School. You provide no independent evidence, and you’re accomplishing nothing. I really don’t understand why you’re here, as you are SO evidently out of your element. Do as you please, but I would personally suggest you go back to the kiddie pool and leave the deep water to us grownups.

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  17. So many apologists, so many excuses for God’s broken promises.

    Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary

    1:9-20 The Canaanites had iron chariots; but Israel had God on their side, whose chariots are thousands of angels, Ps 68:17. Yet they suffered their fears to prevail against their faith.

    Pulpit Commentary

    Verse 19. – Chariots of iron. The chariots of the Canaanites were very formidable to the Israelites, who had no means of coping with them. Thus we are told of Jabin, king of Canaan, who reigned in Hazer, that he had 900 chariots of iron, and mightily oppressed the children of Israel. They were later an important part of King Solomon’s army (1 Kings 10:26). See too Joshua 17:16.

    Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible

    And the Lord was with Judah,….but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley; God forsaking them, because they were afraid of them, for a reason after mentioned, or through slothfulness, and being weary of fighting, or because they fell into some sins, which occasioned the divine displeasure; so the Targum,”after they had sinned, they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley:”

    because they had chariots of iron; but this was no reason why they could not drive them out, if God was with them, who could as easily have delivered these into their hands, as the inhabitants of the mountains; but is the reason why they were afraid to fight with them, and to attempt to drive them out, and which they themselves gave why they did not.

    Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

    19. the Lord was with Judah; … but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley—The war was of the Lord, whose omnipotent aid would have ensured their success in every encounter, whether on the mountains or the plains, with foot soldiers or cavalry. It was distrust, the want of a simple and firm reliance on the promise of God, that made them afraid of the iron chariots (see on [210]Jos 11:4-9).

    Too bad none of them agree with the Mike’s Commentary. 🙂

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  18. So, the question would be.. is there anyone on earth who does have this level of faith and why aren’t they healing all the sick people in the world?.. right?
    Sooo, that throws it all back on us poor, frail, weak Humans that we can’t heal the sick with magic or move mountains with our minds – couldn’t be that it’s impossible, has to be that we don’t have enough faith – pathetic.

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  19. … it’s a level of faith that is clearly not easy to obtain.

    So, not even faith as small as a mustard seed, then—eh, Kathy? Looks like my initial assessment was correct: there are no TrueChristians™ on this blog.

    As to “free will”…where is that mentioned in the Bible? Can you cite those passages for me?

    Because words like “appointed” and “predestined” make it crystal clear that the authors believed we’re little more than pawns being moved about in God’s cosmic chess game. (Acts 13:48; Rom 8:28-30; Rom 9:11-21; Eph 1:4-5, 11; 2 Thes 2:11-12; 2 Tim 1:9)

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  20. “Too bad none of them agree with the Mike’s Commentary. ”

    ROFL poor kid doesn’t even read his own references. From his own quotes

    ” or because they fell into some sins, which occasioned the divine displeasure;”

    Just as I said

    “it was distrust, the want of a simple and firm reliance on the promise of God, that made them afraid of the iron chariots”

    Which indicates their relationship wasn’t right – inline with their disobedience

    You can’t get much more Hilarious a blunder. Buy your tickets. Ron will be here all week for our entertainment. Kiddies ya got to love em

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  21. But notice Ron, how it’s always the Human’s fault. It’s a religion built on guilt.

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