Dear Kathy,
Since you graciously agreed (in our recent conversation) to let me present you with some examples of the Bible’s problems, I decided to do it in this way so it would have its own comment thread. As I’ve said, when I was a Christian, one strike against the Bible was not enough to shake my faith — maybe it only seemed problematic, maybe there was an explanation we hadn’t uncovered yet, maybe the historical accounts were wrong, etc. But as the problems began to mount up, I reached a point where I could no longer deny the fact that the Bible had actual errors.
A couple of suggestions before we begin. Try to be as open-minded about this as possible. As you go through these examples, ask yourself if God would allow such problems to exist in a message that he wanted all people to accept and believe? According to the Bible, whenever God sent someone a message, whether it was Pharaoh or Gideon or Nebuchadnezzar or Paul, they had no question whom it was from. They didn’t always follow it, as we see with people like Pharaoh and Solomon, but they didn’t question the source of the message or what it stated. So why would God operate differently today? Why would he want us to be so confused about his message that we’re able to question whether or not it’s really from him?
Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you come to the conclusion that the Bible has actual problems, that doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. There are a number of Christians who don’t believe in inerrancy. And even if you lose faith in the Christian god, that still doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. A number of people, including several of our founding fathers, were deists. I have a lot of sympathy for that view and plan to do a post on it soon.
Some of the items listed here will have links that provide additional information, especially when the issue is too detailed to list here. I hope that you’ll check out those links, since some of them are quite significant points. And regardless of how this article strikes you, I hope it will help serve as a great springboard to launch you into your own research.
Some of the Problems
Creation
The creation accounts in Genesis do not match what we’ve learned through science. This isn’t shocking news, but it bears looking into. Evolution and the Big Bang Theory had nothing to do with my deconversion, but I’ve learned more about both since leaving Christianity. It’s shocking how much misinformation I had been operating under. Not to say that all Christians are that way — that was simply my experience. But the evidence for both evolution and the Big Bang are far more substantial than I had ever realized. Two good resources for learning more about these issues are the following (though I’d also recommend checking out the recent Cosmos series, as well as some of the PBS NOVA specials):
Another problem with the creation accounts is that Genesis 1 says that plants and trees were made on the 3rd day, while man was made on the 6th. But Genesis 2:5-9 says that man was created before there were any plants or trees in the land. Also, the 1st chapter says that man was created after all the animals, but the 2nd chapter implies that it was the other way around. It seems strange that such discrepancies would exist only a chapter apart, but there are a number of textual clues that suggest the first 5 books of the Bible were assembled over a long period of time from various writings written by a number of different people. Many scholars believe that Genesis 1 and 2 represent two separate versions of the creation story that were both included because the compilers didn’t know which was more accurate. Whatever the reason, there’s no question that the differences exist and are hard to explain.
10 Plagues
During the 10 plagues, God afflicts all of Egypt’s livestock with a disease (Ex 9:1-7), and it specifies that it would affect the “horses, the donkeys, the camels, the herds, and the flocks.” We’re told that all of Egypt’s livestock died. But the later plague of boils was said to affect both man and beast (verse 10 of chapter 9). Maybe it meant non-livestock animals. But Ex 11:5 says that the death of the firstborn would also affect Egypt’s cattle, and in Exodus 14, Pharaoh pursues the Israelites with horses.
Hares Chew the Cud
Leviticus 11:6 tells us that hares chew the cud. They do not. Animals that chew the cud are called ruminants. When they eat plant matter, it goes to their first stomach to soften, and then it’s regurgitated to their mouth. They spend time re-chewing it, and then it is swallowed and fully digested. Ruminants (cows, sheep, goats, etc.) are recognizable because their chewing of the cud is very obvious. Hares (rabbits) don’t chew the cud; however, their mouths do move frequently, so it’s possible to see why some people may have assumed that they do chew the cud. Of course, God would know they didn’t, and this is why the passage is problematic. You can read more about this here.
Arphaxad
In the genealogy given in Genesis 11:10-12, we see that Noah fathered Shem and Shem fathered Arphaxad. At the age of 35, Arphaxad fathered Shelah. This information is confirmed in 1 Chron 1:18. But Luke 3:35-36 tells us that Arphaxad’s son was Cainan, and he was the father of Shelah.
Where does Luke get this information? It disagrees with the Old Testament, so who should we believe? Some have suggested that Genesis and 1 Chronicles simply left out Cainan for some reason. But why would they do that? To further complicate it, how could Cainan have fit in there? Genesis tells us that Arphaxad was 35 when he fathered Shelah. Does it really seem likely that Arphaxad became a grandfather by 35, especially when you consider the extreme old ages that people lived to at that time?
Another explanation is that some copyist messed up when copying Luke and Cainan is just a mistake. But this is not much better. First of all, the error would have needed to occur early for it to be in all our copies of Luke. Secondly, are we really comfortable saying that we have the inspired word of our creator, but it got messed up by some guy who wasn’t paying close attention? To me, that doesn’t lend a lot of credence to the idea of inspiration or inerrancy.
Instead, the most likely explanation is that Luke made a mistake. This, of course, would indicate that he was not inspired.
Problems in the Book of Daniel
In Daniel 5, the writer refers to Belshazzar as the son of Nebuchadnezzar 7 different times. Yet we know from multiple contemporary sources that Belshazzar’s father was Nabonidus, who was not related to Nebuchadnezzar. The same chapter says that Darius the Mede took over Babylon, but this person does not seem to have ever existed. Daniel says that he was the son of Ahaseurus, and in mentioning this, the author of Daniel indicates that he was thinking of a later ruler — the persian emperor Darius the Great, whose son was Ahaseurus. This post in particular goes into the problems surrounding the 5th chapter, but if you’d like to learn about the problems in the rest of the book, you can access each article in the series here.
Jairus’s Daughter
In Mark 5:23, Jairus finds Jesus and says that his daughter is at the point of death. While they’re on their way to the house, some of his servants find them on the way and say that she has died and there’s no point in troubling Jesus further.
However, in Matthew 9:18, Jairus already knows that his daughter has died, but tells Jesus that if he’ll lay his hands on her, she’ll live. This may seem like a minor difference, but honestly, there’s only one scenario that could be true. Either the girl was already dead, or she wasn’t. And if Jairus already knew she was dead, then there was no point in his servants coming to tell him that (so of course, they don’t appear in Matthew’s account).
The Centurion
This is similar to the previous issue. Matthew and Luke both record a centurion who asks Jesus to heal his sick servant. Matthew 8:5-13 says that the centurion himself comes before Jesus to ask for help. Luke 7:1-10 says that the Jewish elders went on his behalf, and then he sent servants to follow up. In Luke, Jesus never speaks to, or even sees, the centurion at all.
Hight Priest
In Mark 2:23-28, Jesus talks about the occasion from the Old Testament when David ate the showbread, which Jesus said was in the days of Abiathar the high priest. However, in 1 Samuel 21:1-6, it appears that Ahimelech was the high priest. Some have tried to answer this problem by saying that Abiathar was alive during that particular episode, so Jesus’ statement is still true. But that’s obviously not the intent of the passage. After all, we would correct anyone who said that the tragedy of 9/11 occurred during the days of President Barack Obama. He may have been alive at the time, but that event did not happen while he was President.
430 Years
Galatians 3:16-17 says this:
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
Here, Paul says that the law came 430 years after the promises were made to Abraham. But in Exodus 12:40-41, we see:
Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years. At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the LORD’s divisions left Egypt.
If the Israelites were in Egypt 430 years, then there could not have been 430 years between Abraham’s promises and the law. God made the promises to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3, and as we read on through Genesis, we see that Abraham had no children at this time. Later, he had a son named Isaac. When Isaac was 60 years old, he had Jacob (Gen 25:24-26), and Jacob had 12 sons that produced the 12 tribes of Israel. Already, we can see that some time has passed since Abraham received the promise. Once Jacob’s sons were all grown with families of their own, they finally settled in Egypt. Jacob was 130 years old at this time (Gen 47:9), and this marks the beginning of that 430 year period that the Israelites spent in Egypt.
That means that the time between the promise to Abraham and the giving of the law was actually over 600 years. So why did Paul say 430 years? I think it’s obvious that this was a simple mistake. He remembered the 430 year figure because that’s how much time the Israelites spent in Egypt, and so he simply misspoke. It’s not a big deal… except that he’s supposed to be inspired by God.
Jesus’ Birth
There are a number of issues surrounding Jesus’ birth. First, Matthew’s and Luke’s accounts contradict one another on virtually all the details, which you can read about here. Secondly, Matthew seems to invent an episode where Herod kills all the children in Bethlehem who are 2 and under, causing Mary, Joseph, and Jesus to flee to Egypt (instead of just returning home to Nazareth, because only Luke says that they started in Nazareth). Matthew does this in order to “fulfill” some Old Testament passages that actually have nothing to do with Jesus or killing babies. You can read about Matthew’s misuse of the Old Testament here — it’s quite blatant.
The Virgin Birth is one of the most famous aspects of Jesus’ story, and it was supposedly done in fulfillment of a prophecy from Isaiah. But it turns out that Isaiah was prophesying no such thing — he was talking about an event that was happening in his own time, and Matthew (once again) just appropriated the “prophecy” for his own devices. You can read all the details here.
Another problem concerning Jesus’ birth narratives is that Matthew and Luke both offer genealogies for Jesus, but they are completely different from one another. Worse, they don’t match the genealogies listed in the Old Testament, either. And Matthew claims that there was a pattern in the number of generations between Abraham and David, between David and the Babylonian captivity, and between the Babylonian captivity and Christ. But to get this neat division, he is forced to leave out some names. In other words, that pattern didn’t happen. You can read more about that here.
The Triumphal Entry
While not as blatant as most of these other issues, when Matthew recounts Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem, he once again borrows from the Old Testament, but seems to make a mistake in his implementation. See here for more info.
Judas’ Death
Judas is well known for being the disciple that betrayed Jesus, but what’s not as well known is there are two different accounts of his death, and it’s very hard to reconcile them. According to Matthew, Judas threw his money down at the chief priests’ feet and went out and hanged himself. We’re not told where he did this. The priests then take the money, and instead of putting it back in the treasury (since it’s blood money), they buy a field to use for burying strangers. Because they bought the field with this money, it’s called the “Field of Blood.”
According to Acts, Judas bought a field with his money (we’re not told that he was remorseful), and he somehow fell down, bursting open in the middle and bleeding to death. The field was called “Field of Blood” after that because of the manner in which Judas died.
To make things more complicated, Matthew (of course) says that this happened in accordance with Jeremiah’s prophecy, but there’s nothing in Jeremiah that matches up. The closest reference comes from Zechariah, not Jeremiah.
These issues really complicate the notion of divine inspiration, and you can read more about them here.
The Crucifixion
There are several big problems with the way the gospels record the events of Jesus’ death, including the fact that different times of day are given for it, and even different days altogether. You can read more about this here.
The Resurrection
There are also a number of problems concerning the resurrection, some minor, some major. They’re too involved to get into here, but you can read all about them here and here.
The Problem of Hell
The notion of Hell is fraught with problems. It might even surprise you to learn that the Bible’s teachings on the afterlife change dramatically between the Old and New Testaments. I go into detail about Hell’s problems here, here, and here.
The Problem of Evil
Another huge problem for Christianity is the problem of evil, which I talk about here. This post also addresses the “problem of Heaven.”
The Bible’s Morality
While a number of people believe that the Christian god is the source of all morality, the Bible is actually filled with some monstrous acts that are either commanded by God, done with his consent, or carried out by him directly. I talk about some specific examples here, and I address some of the common responses to them here.
Conclusion
Kathy, there are a number of other examples that could be given, including the prophecy of Tyre that we’ve been discussing. But to me, these are some of the most significant and clear-cut problems. We could try to manufacture explanations for every one of these — some might be more believable than others. But why should we have to? If a perfect God inspired this book, why should it contain so many discrepancies? And honestly, some of these issues can’t be explained. They’re just wrong. The problems go well beyond internal contradictions and unfulfilled prophecies. There are problems of authorship, problems with the doctrines, and problems with the way the texts were written, transcribed, and compiled.
I’m sure you’ve spent your time as a Christian trying to reach those who are lost. You’ve always believed that Christianity is truth, and it’s the one thing that everyone needs. But could it be that Christianity is just as false as every other religion in the world? And if that’s the case, wouldn’t you want to leave it behind? When one is dedicated to finding truth, they have to be prepared to follow it wherever it leads. It’s not always easy or popular. It’s not even a guarantee that you’re right. All it means is that you follow the evidence where it leads to the best of your ability. If you find out that you’re wrong about something, you adjust course when the evidence dictates. If God exists, and if he’s righteous, what more could he ask for than that? I’ll close with my favorite quote:
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
— Marcus Aurelius
Finding Truth 
@Portal – RE: “I’m thinking that ignoring people is not the best policy” – and that, my friend, is one of the primary reasons that Baskin Robbins makes 31 flavors. Ignoring prevents me from saying a great number of things that I couldn’t – and likely wouldn’t want to – take back.
Fantastic old pine (or cedar)!
Not so much now, in modern, industrialized Japan, but in the past, Japanese horticulturists have gone high into the mountains, near the tree line, above which no trees can grow, in search of just such gnarled, twisted evergreens, for use as bonsai. One year, in the late Fall, after the nutrients have returned to the roots, they would cut half of the trees root system by shoveling a semi-circle around the tree, leaving the other half to feed the tree during its dormant period. In the Spring, new feeder roots would begin growing behind the cut roots, and the following Fall, the same procedure would be applied to the other side. Then the third Fall, the tree is dug out, with the intact root ball carefully wrapped in burlap, and transported down the mountain, where it is placed in a container. It’s fast becoming a lost art, in a culture that can no longer make time for beauty.
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Hi Arch,
Bonsai trees are pretty amazing 🙂 they look so small, yet some of them grow to be so old, if I remember correctly….
It really is an art form,
we have a lot to thank Japan for
Mario Brothers, sushi, Pokemon and Bonsai being just a few of them 🙂
so much innovation and creativity comes out of such a small country
Thanks 🙂
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kc said:
“He was an ordained minister for over 20 years but while furthering his education came to the conclusion that Christianity was false.
This should make a rational person at least think and say why ? But then again ”
Right, and we pointed out that this person is OUTNUMBERED by thousands.. people who DON’T choose to dismiss God.. a “rational” person would see the reality (aka BASIC MATH) that you/ atheists can’t because of bias/ lack of objectivity.
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kc..
.. and I had asked if you could give a short summary, here, of this person’s reasons that caused such a drastic change… which, no one here has been very forthcoming with their “dramatic” story of coming to the supposed “truth”.
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Ruth, you said:
“I didn’t argue for God creating us as robots. I wasn’t making a argument against free will. I’m not sure how you can know that love can’t exist without free will because that’s never been a choice.”
So, you’re saying that robots can love?
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Ruth: “If you believe that a God created us with free will, but that everyone sins because it is impossible to be perfect then it was determined for you that you would sin and you’d have no choice about it. The only thing you’d have a choice about is which way you were going to do it. That’s the part that makes no sense to me. It makes no sense to me that God would create us with this free will and then punish us for exercising it. ”
Jesus never sinned. He demonstrated that it is possible. Yes, you are right, it is nearly impossible to have free will and not sin.. so? Again, the alternative is to not have free will. We can’t demonstrate love without free will.. love can’t exist without free will.
This is a classic example of the mindset of liberals/ atheists.. you don’t like the idea that you are responsible for YOUR choices. You don’t like being held accountable.. so you must blame someone else. And in this argument, God gets the blame. You don’t think about all the GOOD things that come about because of your free will, which you wouldn’t get to experience if God saw it your way.
In reading Nan’s book sample.. the very first reasons she gives for her dramatic change are for this very reason that you are exhibiting.. she writes:
“I can’t pinpoint the exact moment when I started to feel different about my Christian experience; it was a very gradual process . One of the first things I recall is asking myself how following the strict rules and regulations of the church would help me draw closer to God. I also began to wonder why there was so much emphasis on sin and guilt instead of God’s love.”
She didn’t like the idea of being held responsible/ accountable for the “rules” that she didn’t like having to follow.
Again, this IS an issue of pride and ego.. things the Bible warns us about over and over.
You all don’t see this but we do… it’s very clear.
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“Its only after that they even knew how to be tempted. the only command they were ever given not to do was eat of the tree.”
I will quote Charles Templeton in his book, “Farewell to God”
“If his goal was to create an intelligent species and set it down in a paradise, why would he load the dice against his new creatures by creating a wily talking snake, which was, the Genesis story says, “more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made” ?
Unless the deity is Machiavellian or obtuse, none of this makes sense.
Equally incredible is the fact, having created the man and the woman, God forbids them to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, being fully aware, as he presumably would be, that should they do so they would acquire the ability to distinguish between right and wrong and , in this respect, “be as the gods.” How naive of the omniscient deity not to know that, given the opportunity, they would seize it. Surely the ability to discriminate between options is a desirable trait and one to be coveted.
If God is omniscient, would he not know that giving the man and the woman the ability to think but not to reason made them little different from the animals ? So why trouble to create them ? The assertion by the serpent that God wanted to withhold from Adam and Eve the power to reason because he knew that with it they would be like the gods suggests the serpent already had the ability to reason. Quite clearly he knew the difference between right and wrong and was out to frustrate God’s purposes.
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“Jesus never sinned.” – Who said?
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Kathy, it’s very hard to condense all the reasons one might change their mind about a set of beliefs that they’ve deeply held for decades. It’s a gradual process, and there’s not just one reason. The above post shows some of the reasons why I stopped believing, but they’re far from the only ones. Actually, most of my blog from 2011 on go through the various reasons. They’re different for everyone.
If this is something you’re genuinely interested in, you can check out the following video, which explains that a belief in God is actually a “mega-belief” made up of many smaller beliefs. A number of those smaller beliefs have to fail before the mega-belief fails, and I’ve found this to be a very accurate description of what it’s like to have such a major change in world-view.
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I meant to add that it’s rarely just because atheists don’t want to be told what to do. For me, in fact, that wasn’t a factor at all. I live just as morally now as I did when I was a Christian, and I enjoyed going to church — took a very active role.
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Also, that video I just posted contained the whole series — while it’s good, I only meant to post this video:
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I HAD a friend.. he is no longer with us. He was my childhood friend, we grew up together and “grayed” together.. he was always in my life but when he made the incredibly stupid choice to try crack cocaine years ago, everything changed for the worse.. major understatement.. he had considerable issues BEFORE he became an addict, so he was literally intolerable afterwards. He made my life hell and many others as well. He was narcissistic.. and he had major issues with pride and ego. His life was always a nightmare and he ALWAYS blamed someone else for every single problem he had. No one could please him, everyone was offending him or “wronging” him in some way or another… always while they were the ones putting a roof over his head or providing him with his transportation. Money was often at the heart of his issues with others.. which, money is ultimately about control.. which is ultimately about… pride and ego.
He died of a drug overdose 2 years ago.. the night before he passed away we had talked on the phone and he asked me if I was going to visit his grave.. I brushed it off saying.. oh Joe, don’t talk like that.. I had no idea he was going to die hours later. I thought he was just talking like he did for years. It was ruled an overdose.. but I believe it was a combination of both.. he didn’t care if that great high, (a special opportunity he had due to being prescribed powerful pain medication along with methadone, which I didn’t know about) would kill him.. and he knew there was a good chance that it would.
My reason for sharing this is because, several months before he passed away, he had completed a drug program, it was a residency program.. it was day and night… a very acclaimed program that he didn’t even have to pay for.. it gave us all hope.
But, it was at his graduation from the program that I knew nothing had changed.
Graduates would each give a speech, which included thanking those who worked the closest
with them in helping them overcome their addiction.. the counselors. All of the graduates did thank those counselors, with much emotion and gratitude… except Joe. Instead, the only person he thanked was the “girl who smiled” at him at the reception desk every day.. that made him feel good. And she’s the only person he thanked. Everyone else was telling him things that he didn’t like.. that He was doing something wrong.. clearly he didn’t appreciate that.. it offended him. He’d rather people just “love” him.. compliment him and not point out the things that were literally destroying his life.
Fundamentally, how is that any different than Nan’s words?
” I also began to wonder why there was so much emphasis on sin and guilt instead of God’s love.””
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@Kathy, “kc..
.. and I had asked if you could give a short summary, here, of this person’s reasons that caused such a drastic change… which, no one here has been very forthcoming with their “dramatic” story of coming to the supposed “truth”.
I already gave the answer why Charles Templeton left his faith but either you were in denial or you just didn’t see it. Actually you quoted me on the reason but you obviously didn’t grasp it.
Here is YOUR quote of ME, ““He was an ordained minister for over 20 years but while furthering his education came to the conclusion that Christianity was false.”
Do you get it now ? While furthering his education. Education was the answer Kathy. He tried to get his best friend Billy Graham to further his education with him by both of them attending Princeton Theological Seminary. Billy declined.
YES odd as it may seem , there are many professors in Theological Seminaries who actually question the bible. SURPRISE !
You also say, ” which, no one here has been very forthcoming with their “dramatic” story of coming to the supposed “truth”.
There is NO dramatic story to tell, Kathy ! Most of us went through years of de-converting. I went through 10 years of questioning and further education through reading around 400 books from christians , agnostics and atheists before I came to grips with leaving my faith. I was in denial just like you and Mike are. I think many here will admit the same thing. Denial , denial, denial.
I was indoctrinated in the christian faith from a young child. It’s all I ever knew. But gradually, I started having questions my parents, friends and even my pastor couldn’t answer satisfactorily. The more questions I had, the more I was told I just needed to dig into god’s word more and exercise more faith. Well that didn’t get it. Once I started to read books by people who were christians (at one time) like Albert Schweitzer, Geza Vermes, Bart Ehrman, there was no way to turn back. Reason took over.
Indoctrination and delusion are hard to overcome if you never honestly seek truth with an open mind. Just reading about the history of christianity and “The Church” was enough to really start to question things.
I hope others here will share their story too.
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Kathy, I’m sorry about your friend. I’m not Nan, so I can only speculate about the details of what she was talking about, but I took her to mean this:
You’re right that when you love someone you sometimes have to tell them things they don’t want to hear. You do that because you love them and care about their well-being. I would think that Nan feels the same way. I would imagine that she’s instead talking about congregations whose focus isn’t exactly what it should be. Some congregations focus on fire and brimstone and specialize as fault-finders, while others never talk about consequences and only focus on grace and love. Both represent extremes that aren’t very good or helpful. Instead, it takes an acknowledgement of both the grace / love aspects and the consequences.
So I take her to be talking more about the experience in her particular congregation as being a catalyst to her examining the Christian faith as a whole, and not a comment about Christianity in general. I could be wrong though — I’m sure she’ll weigh in on that when she can.
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kc said:
“Just reading about the history of christianity and “The Church” was enough to really start to question things. ”
“The Church”.. Catholicism is often the reason people leave Christianity.. all I can say is that “The Church” was wrong.. they DIDN’T follow the teachings of the Bible. So, blaming God for the actions of fallible humans is a cop out.
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kc said:
“Here is YOUR quote of ME, ““He was an ordained minister for over 20 years but while furthering his education came to the conclusion that Christianity was false.”
Do you get it now ? While furthering his education. Education was the answer Kathy. He tried to get his best friend Billy Graham to further his education with him by both of them attending Princeton Theological Seminary. Billy declined.”
What exactly did Billy Graham need to learn in this “furthering education” to be enlightened?
He’s STILL outnumbered by Christians who do have advanced educations and who DON’T reject God.
So, please give specifics.. that’s why I’m here.. otherwise its pointless.
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My story is simple, KC – by age 6 or 7, I was already leafing through National Geographics, gazing in wonder at pictures of Buddhist temples and Hindu ceremonies, and wondering how those millions of people could be involved in religions so different from our own. My attempts to ask my mother how we knew our religion was the “right” one, brought only “We just do, that’s all,” but that wasn’t enough for me. As soon as I was old enough, I began studying religions, from the ancient civilizations, as well as the modern ones, and discovered that although each of them had AN answer, none of them had THE answer, despite the fact that each thought that they did – they were all out there putting one foot in front of the other, trying to figure out what life was all about, just as I was.
There are no magic men. The only “magic” there is in this world lies in the love we have for one another. And that’s enough for me.
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Nate, you said:
“So I take her to be talking more about the experience in her particular congregation as being a catalyst to her examining the Christian faith as a whole, and not a comment about Christianity in general. ”
I never understood how the actions of fallible humans could be a reason or even a “catalyst” for rejecting God.. especially when His teachings often forbid those things.
Nan said:
“One of the first things I recall is asking myself how following the strict rules and regulations of the church would help me draw closer to God.”
It sounds like the catalyst is that she didn’t like the rules.. “rebellion” is always at the root of rejecting God.
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Kathy, this blog is full of specifics. If you’re truly interested in what would make people question Christianity, it’s easy to find the reasons. A number of books have been written on the subject, as well as YouTube videos, blogs, etc. It would be difficult to give detailed answers in a blog comment, and I’m not sure that it would be beneficial anyway.
If you’d like a list, I can give you mine:
This is not an exhaustive list. It also contains no examples — no evidence to explain why I see these as problems. It would take too long to go into all of it here, and I’ve written about most of these elsewhere anyway. I don’t expect you to think any of them are problematic — I would not have several years ago.
Honestly, one of the catalysts for me was becoming a father. I love my children greatly, and while I can imagine them performing terrible acts that would disappoint me, I can’t imagine them doing anything where I would view something like Hell as the appropriate punishment. This was the beginning of my struggles with the concept of Hell, but it took a long time for those struggles to become anything resembling doubt. And that was only one facet of many that factored in my leaving Christianity.
I don’t expect my reasons to be meaningful to you. If you are not troubled by anything in your Christian faith, then it’s doubtful that any amount of evidence could be shown to you that would make you change your mind. I’m not saying that as a dig — I think it’s the way most of us are. In my experience, a change in world-view as massive as the one that I and others here have undergone has to start from within.
If you ever begin to struggle with some of Christianity’s concepts, you’ll find plenty of information to help you sort it out (on all sides of the issues). Until then, I don’t think there’s any value in the rest of us putting up our reasons for you to analyze. I don’t expect you would see a single one and say “oh, yeah, I can see why you would feel that way.” I just don’t think you’re in a place right now where you can see any of this from a non-Christian perspective. Sorry if I’m misjudging — that’s just the impression I have right now.
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About as good a summation on things as I’ve ever seen. 🙂
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Still waiting, Kathy —
“Jesus never sinned.” – Who said?
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He’s STILL outnumbered by Christians who do have advanced educations and who DON’T reject God.
So, please give specifics.. that’s why I’m here.. otherwise its pointless.
Yes there are christians with advanced educations Kathy but how many get advanced theological educations by attending A Theological Seminary. It was furthering his “theological education” that he renounced his faith.
Why don’t you just read the book if you’re that curious ?
What does out numbered have to do with anything? If Islam surpasses christianity in numbers, does this mean you will become a muslim when there are more of them than christians ???
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No it’s not, Kathy. And this is why I said it’s probably of no value to tell you why we feel the way we do. You ask for reasons, but then tell us why we lost our faith, even though you’ve never been through it yourself.
I don’t presume to tell you why you believe in God, and even if I did, I would couch it in terms of how it seems to me — I would not claim to know what your reasons are. Why do you feel the need to pass such judgment on people you don’t even know, especially when they’re telling you it’s not that way? I simply don’t understand that level of hubris.
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@Mike, “but theres enough in that post to tell me in some areas I was reading you wrong and for that you have my apologies as well.”
“51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. “
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““rebellion” is always at the root of rejecting God.” – I’ve always found that root to be knowledge.
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