Dear Kathy,
Since you graciously agreed (in our recent conversation) to let me present you with some examples of the Bible’s problems, I decided to do it in this way so it would have its own comment thread. As I’ve said, when I was a Christian, one strike against the Bible was not enough to shake my faith — maybe it only seemed problematic, maybe there was an explanation we hadn’t uncovered yet, maybe the historical accounts were wrong, etc. But as the problems began to mount up, I reached a point where I could no longer deny the fact that the Bible had actual errors.
A couple of suggestions before we begin. Try to be as open-minded about this as possible. As you go through these examples, ask yourself if God would allow such problems to exist in a message that he wanted all people to accept and believe? According to the Bible, whenever God sent someone a message, whether it was Pharaoh or Gideon or Nebuchadnezzar or Paul, they had no question whom it was from. They didn’t always follow it, as we see with people like Pharaoh and Solomon, but they didn’t question the source of the message or what it stated. So why would God operate differently today? Why would he want us to be so confused about his message that we’re able to question whether or not it’s really from him?
Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you come to the conclusion that the Bible has actual problems, that doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. There are a number of Christians who don’t believe in inerrancy. And even if you lose faith in the Christian god, that still doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. A number of people, including several of our founding fathers, were deists. I have a lot of sympathy for that view and plan to do a post on it soon.
Some of the items listed here will have links that provide additional information, especially when the issue is too detailed to list here. I hope that you’ll check out those links, since some of them are quite significant points. And regardless of how this article strikes you, I hope it will help serve as a great springboard to launch you into your own research.
Some of the Problems
Creation
The creation accounts in Genesis do not match what we’ve learned through science. This isn’t shocking news, but it bears looking into. Evolution and the Big Bang Theory had nothing to do with my deconversion, but I’ve learned more about both since leaving Christianity. It’s shocking how much misinformation I had been operating under. Not to say that all Christians are that way — that was simply my experience. But the evidence for both evolution and the Big Bang are far more substantial than I had ever realized. Two good resources for learning more about these issues are the following (though I’d also recommend checking out the recent Cosmos series, as well as some of the PBS NOVA specials):
Another problem with the creation accounts is that Genesis 1 says that plants and trees were made on the 3rd day, while man was made on the 6th. But Genesis 2:5-9 says that man was created before there were any plants or trees in the land. Also, the 1st chapter says that man was created after all the animals, but the 2nd chapter implies that it was the other way around. It seems strange that such discrepancies would exist only a chapter apart, but there are a number of textual clues that suggest the first 5 books of the Bible were assembled over a long period of time from various writings written by a number of different people. Many scholars believe that Genesis 1 and 2 represent two separate versions of the creation story that were both included because the compilers didn’t know which was more accurate. Whatever the reason, there’s no question that the differences exist and are hard to explain.
10 Plagues
During the 10 plagues, God afflicts all of Egypt’s livestock with a disease (Ex 9:1-7), and it specifies that it would affect the “horses, the donkeys, the camels, the herds, and the flocks.” We’re told that all of Egypt’s livestock died. But the later plague of boils was said to affect both man and beast (verse 10 of chapter 9). Maybe it meant non-livestock animals. But Ex 11:5 says that the death of the firstborn would also affect Egypt’s cattle, and in Exodus 14, Pharaoh pursues the Israelites with horses.
Hares Chew the Cud
Leviticus 11:6 tells us that hares chew the cud. They do not. Animals that chew the cud are called ruminants. When they eat plant matter, it goes to their first stomach to soften, and then it’s regurgitated to their mouth. They spend time re-chewing it, and then it is swallowed and fully digested. Ruminants (cows, sheep, goats, etc.) are recognizable because their chewing of the cud is very obvious. Hares (rabbits) don’t chew the cud; however, their mouths do move frequently, so it’s possible to see why some people may have assumed that they do chew the cud. Of course, God would know they didn’t, and this is why the passage is problematic. You can read more about this here.
Arphaxad
In the genealogy given in Genesis 11:10-12, we see that Noah fathered Shem and Shem fathered Arphaxad. At the age of 35, Arphaxad fathered Shelah. This information is confirmed in 1 Chron 1:18. But Luke 3:35-36 tells us that Arphaxad’s son was Cainan, and he was the father of Shelah.
Where does Luke get this information? It disagrees with the Old Testament, so who should we believe? Some have suggested that Genesis and 1 Chronicles simply left out Cainan for some reason. But why would they do that? To further complicate it, how could Cainan have fit in there? Genesis tells us that Arphaxad was 35 when he fathered Shelah. Does it really seem likely that Arphaxad became a grandfather by 35, especially when you consider the extreme old ages that people lived to at that time?
Another explanation is that some copyist messed up when copying Luke and Cainan is just a mistake. But this is not much better. First of all, the error would have needed to occur early for it to be in all our copies of Luke. Secondly, are we really comfortable saying that we have the inspired word of our creator, but it got messed up by some guy who wasn’t paying close attention? To me, that doesn’t lend a lot of credence to the idea of inspiration or inerrancy.
Instead, the most likely explanation is that Luke made a mistake. This, of course, would indicate that he was not inspired.
Problems in the Book of Daniel
In Daniel 5, the writer refers to Belshazzar as the son of Nebuchadnezzar 7 different times. Yet we know from multiple contemporary sources that Belshazzar’s father was Nabonidus, who was not related to Nebuchadnezzar. The same chapter says that Darius the Mede took over Babylon, but this person does not seem to have ever existed. Daniel says that he was the son of Ahaseurus, and in mentioning this, the author of Daniel indicates that he was thinking of a later ruler — the persian emperor Darius the Great, whose son was Ahaseurus. This post in particular goes into the problems surrounding the 5th chapter, but if you’d like to learn about the problems in the rest of the book, you can access each article in the series here.
Jairus’s Daughter
In Mark 5:23, Jairus finds Jesus and says that his daughter is at the point of death. While they’re on their way to the house, some of his servants find them on the way and say that she has died and there’s no point in troubling Jesus further.
However, in Matthew 9:18, Jairus already knows that his daughter has died, but tells Jesus that if he’ll lay his hands on her, she’ll live. This may seem like a minor difference, but honestly, there’s only one scenario that could be true. Either the girl was already dead, or she wasn’t. And if Jairus already knew she was dead, then there was no point in his servants coming to tell him that (so of course, they don’t appear in Matthew’s account).
The Centurion
This is similar to the previous issue. Matthew and Luke both record a centurion who asks Jesus to heal his sick servant. Matthew 8:5-13 says that the centurion himself comes before Jesus to ask for help. Luke 7:1-10 says that the Jewish elders went on his behalf, and then he sent servants to follow up. In Luke, Jesus never speaks to, or even sees, the centurion at all.
Hight Priest
In Mark 2:23-28, Jesus talks about the occasion from the Old Testament when David ate the showbread, which Jesus said was in the days of Abiathar the high priest. However, in 1 Samuel 21:1-6, it appears that Ahimelech was the high priest. Some have tried to answer this problem by saying that Abiathar was alive during that particular episode, so Jesus’ statement is still true. But that’s obviously not the intent of the passage. After all, we would correct anyone who said that the tragedy of 9/11 occurred during the days of President Barack Obama. He may have been alive at the time, but that event did not happen while he was President.
430 Years
Galatians 3:16-17 says this:
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
Here, Paul says that the law came 430 years after the promises were made to Abraham. But in Exodus 12:40-41, we see:
Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years. At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the LORD’s divisions left Egypt.
If the Israelites were in Egypt 430 years, then there could not have been 430 years between Abraham’s promises and the law. God made the promises to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3, and as we read on through Genesis, we see that Abraham had no children at this time. Later, he had a son named Isaac. When Isaac was 60 years old, he had Jacob (Gen 25:24-26), and Jacob had 12 sons that produced the 12 tribes of Israel. Already, we can see that some time has passed since Abraham received the promise. Once Jacob’s sons were all grown with families of their own, they finally settled in Egypt. Jacob was 130 years old at this time (Gen 47:9), and this marks the beginning of that 430 year period that the Israelites spent in Egypt.
That means that the time between the promise to Abraham and the giving of the law was actually over 600 years. So why did Paul say 430 years? I think it’s obvious that this was a simple mistake. He remembered the 430 year figure because that’s how much time the Israelites spent in Egypt, and so he simply misspoke. It’s not a big deal… except that he’s supposed to be inspired by God.
Jesus’ Birth
There are a number of issues surrounding Jesus’ birth. First, Matthew’s and Luke’s accounts contradict one another on virtually all the details, which you can read about here. Secondly, Matthew seems to invent an episode where Herod kills all the children in Bethlehem who are 2 and under, causing Mary, Joseph, and Jesus to flee to Egypt (instead of just returning home to Nazareth, because only Luke says that they started in Nazareth). Matthew does this in order to “fulfill” some Old Testament passages that actually have nothing to do with Jesus or killing babies. You can read about Matthew’s misuse of the Old Testament here — it’s quite blatant.
The Virgin Birth is one of the most famous aspects of Jesus’ story, and it was supposedly done in fulfillment of a prophecy from Isaiah. But it turns out that Isaiah was prophesying no such thing — he was talking about an event that was happening in his own time, and Matthew (once again) just appropriated the “prophecy” for his own devices. You can read all the details here.
Another problem concerning Jesus’ birth narratives is that Matthew and Luke both offer genealogies for Jesus, but they are completely different from one another. Worse, they don’t match the genealogies listed in the Old Testament, either. And Matthew claims that there was a pattern in the number of generations between Abraham and David, between David and the Babylonian captivity, and between the Babylonian captivity and Christ. But to get this neat division, he is forced to leave out some names. In other words, that pattern didn’t happen. You can read more about that here.
The Triumphal Entry
While not as blatant as most of these other issues, when Matthew recounts Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem, he once again borrows from the Old Testament, but seems to make a mistake in his implementation. See here for more info.
Judas’ Death
Judas is well known for being the disciple that betrayed Jesus, but what’s not as well known is there are two different accounts of his death, and it’s very hard to reconcile them. According to Matthew, Judas threw his money down at the chief priests’ feet and went out and hanged himself. We’re not told where he did this. The priests then take the money, and instead of putting it back in the treasury (since it’s blood money), they buy a field to use for burying strangers. Because they bought the field with this money, it’s called the “Field of Blood.”
According to Acts, Judas bought a field with his money (we’re not told that he was remorseful), and he somehow fell down, bursting open in the middle and bleeding to death. The field was called “Field of Blood” after that because of the manner in which Judas died.
To make things more complicated, Matthew (of course) says that this happened in accordance with Jeremiah’s prophecy, but there’s nothing in Jeremiah that matches up. The closest reference comes from Zechariah, not Jeremiah.
These issues really complicate the notion of divine inspiration, and you can read more about them here.
The Crucifixion
There are several big problems with the way the gospels record the events of Jesus’ death, including the fact that different times of day are given for it, and even different days altogether. You can read more about this here.
The Resurrection
There are also a number of problems concerning the resurrection, some minor, some major. They’re too involved to get into here, but you can read all about them here and here.
The Problem of Hell
The notion of Hell is fraught with problems. It might even surprise you to learn that the Bible’s teachings on the afterlife change dramatically between the Old and New Testaments. I go into detail about Hell’s problems here, here, and here.
The Problem of Evil
Another huge problem for Christianity is the problem of evil, which I talk about here. This post also addresses the “problem of Heaven.”
The Bible’s Morality
While a number of people believe that the Christian god is the source of all morality, the Bible is actually filled with some monstrous acts that are either commanded by God, done with his consent, or carried out by him directly. I talk about some specific examples here, and I address some of the common responses to them here.
Conclusion
Kathy, there are a number of other examples that could be given, including the prophecy of Tyre that we’ve been discussing. But to me, these are some of the most significant and clear-cut problems. We could try to manufacture explanations for every one of these — some might be more believable than others. But why should we have to? If a perfect God inspired this book, why should it contain so many discrepancies? And honestly, some of these issues can’t be explained. They’re just wrong. The problems go well beyond internal contradictions and unfulfilled prophecies. There are problems of authorship, problems with the doctrines, and problems with the way the texts were written, transcribed, and compiled.
I’m sure you’ve spent your time as a Christian trying to reach those who are lost. You’ve always believed that Christianity is truth, and it’s the one thing that everyone needs. But could it be that Christianity is just as false as every other religion in the world? And if that’s the case, wouldn’t you want to leave it behind? When one is dedicated to finding truth, they have to be prepared to follow it wherever it leads. It’s not always easy or popular. It’s not even a guarantee that you’re right. All it means is that you follow the evidence where it leads to the best of your ability. If you find out that you’re wrong about something, you adjust course when the evidence dictates. If God exists, and if he’s righteous, what more could he ask for than that? I’ll close with my favorite quote:
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
— Marcus Aurelius
So, T – you’re saying you got nuthin’, right? Thought so –
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“I don’t see the point of making an atheist blog no one much knows about look like its a hundred time more popular that it really is.”
Don’t kid yourself, Mike. This is probably one of the few blogs where people will allow you to be your arrogant delusional self (for very long). You’ve probably lost track of the number of blogs who have given you the boot, both atheist and theist.
I think you’re rather disappointed you didn’t get banned this time. You begged for it repeatedly but Nate wouldn’t grant you your wish. No notch for your belt. 😦
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“It’s not us who claim to have a scientific explanation.. it’s not us who relies/ TRUSTS in science to give us the answers” – no, Kathy, sadly, you rely/TRUST in magic.
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Again, Arch.. “magic” is the ONLY explanation we have.. you’ve given me nothing else to believe in as an explanation for our existence… NOTHING.. NADA.. ZILCH..
Mike, yes there is a point when it’s time to move on.. after all, all we’re supposed to do is share the Gospel, tell them what God has done for them.. and then leave them to their own fate. I don’t know why I even try.. I’m not aware of a single atheist / liberal who’s changed their mind when it’s pointed out how faulty their beliefs are. It doesn’t seem to matter one bit. They are perfectly fine with continuing on with views they cannot adequately defend. They see no problem with having to resort to name calling / insults because they have no arguments left. It just doesn’t register with them. I’ll never fully understand the liberal/ atheist… never.
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“Don’t kid yourself, Mike. This is probably one of the few blogs where people will allow you to be your arrogant delusional self (for very long). You’ve probably lost track of the number of blogs who have given you the boot, both atheist and theist. ”
I’ve never been banned from a blog. Your track record on being wrong is in tact. I think you have clear shot at a world guiness record. I’m rooting for you
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““It’s not us who claim to have a scientific explanation.. it’s not us who relies/ TRUSTS in science to give us the answers” – no, Kathy, sadly, you rely/TRUST in magic.”
All hail the white fairy of everything out of nothing that high Priest Krauss teaches! genuflect chant .”oommmm….Ommmm… Nothing alone is worthy…you alone are worthy of our praise oh master of the void. You who are not because there is nought of anything that rises to everything”
🙂 🙂
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Did you notice, KC, that at NO point did he ever offer any evidence – only ridicule and sarcasm. Yeah, that’d make ME want to run out and become a Christian, just like him! If Yesua actually DID exist came back today, and saw Mike, his first words would be, “I never knew ye –“
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“Did you notice, KC, that at NO point did he ever offer any evidence – only ridicule and sarcasm. Yeah, that’d make ME want to run out and become a Christian, ”
You are confusing me with Kathy. MY goal has never been to convert you to Christianity. Its a noble goal to want people to come to Christ but I have found that some people are beyond it and making their mind to change as a goal feeds into their arrogance that they will be the arbiters of what the truth is.
However since you have no evidence High priest Krauss is right if you wish me to see the power of the white fairy of everything out of nothing you must chant louder
“oommmmm…..Oooommm”
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Gosh, I sure hope they were raptured —
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RE: “I don’t know why I even try.. I’m not aware of a single atheist / liberal who’s changed their mind when it’s pointed out how faulty their beliefs are. It doesn’t seem to matter one bit.” – oh, boo hoo!
Let me see if I can’t help you understand that a little more readily, Kathy – it’s because you’re a joke, coming in here with no valid reasons for believing what you believe, yet unable to understand why we can’t believe the same nonsense. In the beginning, we believed we could talk to you, so each of us, in our turn, tried explaining to you why we chose not to believe, but none of it was what you wanted to hear, so you decided not to waste your time by actually listening, and suddenly, you’re unable to understand why we can’t see things your way.
And your case was certainly not helped by the fact that you were paired with Ronald McDonald, or the fact that you agreed with his every word. Just consider yourselves laughed out of town —
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Maybe, Kathy, you and Bozo would have better luck passing out WatchTowers —
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“I’ve never been banned from a blog. Your track record on being wrong is in tact. ”
“You clearly want me gone for other reasons regarding points made and I expect that any moment but don;t presume my world will be the least bit affected (as it was not when you banned me the first time for disagreeing with you) to the point that you could actually have one of your people insult me and have any power to make me feel I should not respond regardless of what you did afterwards. ”
Well Mike, your arrogance has overtaken your mouth once again ! While continually calling others liars it is you who take the prize for this .
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“Let me see if I can’t help you understand that a little more readily, Kathy – it’s because you’re a joke, coming in here with no valid reasons for believing what you believe”
Perhaps you legitimately just don’t get it Arch. You forever made yourself and that claim a joke when you went to Krauss. Theres no turning back. When you believe everything comes out of nothing and you have no evidence that QM operates in nothing every time you mention evidence we have the option of either laughing or rolling our eyes
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“Well Mike, your arrogance has overtaken your mouth once again ! While continually calling others liars it is you who take the prize for this .”
Really think any objective person would think that a reversed banned was what I was referring to? Go for it. Your guinness world record for being wrong is within reach.
tip: Don’t take breaks to watch Gunsmoke. You are on pace.
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“Just consider yourselves laughed out of town –”
Whatever shall she and I do? Ran out of Nate Never Finding Truth Town – population 10
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🙂 Meanwhile evidence that you were not considering the reversed ban either.
“I think you’re rather disappointed you didn’t get banned this time. You begged for it repeatedly but Nate wouldn’t grant you your wish. No notch for your belt”
My…My
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“Really think any objective person would think that a reversed banned was what I was referring to? ”
You’re the literalist, Mike. You said, ““I’ve never been banned from a blog. Your track record on being wrong is in tact. ”
It doesn’t matter if you were banned for only 1 nanosecond, YOU WERE BANNED.
Mike, everyone here knows you are the one doing the hand waving. Again, you can’t admit you are wrong and you will go to any length to twist and spin to avoid it.
This is arrogant and delusional Mike, but of course no one would expect you to see it.
You lose again ! Keep huffing and puffing behind the curtain, OZ . 🙂
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yawn……..
and yet he confessed
“I think you’re rather disappointed YOU DIDNT GET BANNED this time. You begged for it repeatedly but Nate wouldn’t grant you your wish.NO NOTCH FOR YOUR BELT”
My…My
This is the best you got KK…. tripping over your own words?…tsk tsk. Enjoy your Sunday , relax and retool. Get better material as Guinness Book might not count the pathetic stuff
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“Mike, yes there is a point when it’s time to move on”
Very well my sister. I’m quite bored
With Arch’s admission of believing in everything out of nothing without proof that Qm even works without the space and time it supposedly was to create AND nates begging that 90% fence is actually a city wall with the no prophecy is fulfilled unless all of them are whining – its a fitting time to leave them babbling to themselves.
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Smile… Thousand plus..who’s winning? —Arkenaten
Nate…his Alexa rating jumped up 414,667 from 19,197,081 to 18,782.414 in less than a week. 🙂
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Still waiting, Chuckles, for you to trot out your scientific evidence that your god created the universe from beyond space and time – when you’ve done that, we can both have a good laugh at me. Until then, I’ll still be laughing at you – and of course Big Picture Bubble Brain. She seemed to have a three-phrase loop stuck in her head: “big picture,” “compelling evidence,” and “martyrs died,” and appeared to believe that if she simply repeated those often enough times, surely one or more of us would fall to our knees and convert – or re-convert, or un-deconvert, or – who knows what her expectations were?
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“– when you’ve done that, we can both have a good laugh at me”
Too late. We are already having a good laugh at you. the babbling and hysteria hand waving you are attempting to cover your tracks only adds more punch lines to the joke
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“Nate…his Alexa rating jumped up 414,667 from 19,197,081 to 18,782.414 in less than a week.”
🙂 Send our check in the mail. when we leave it will drop like a rock again
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“Ran out of Nate Never Finding Truth Town” – we were hoping you’d bring some with you, but that didn’t happen. I hope that next time, Nate invites a better class of riff-raff.
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“we were hoping you’d bring some with you, but that didn’t happen. I hope that next time, Nate invites a better class of riff-raff.”
Well there is that silver lining. Recognition that a community needs a better class than it has is always the first step to community rejuvenation.
P.S. Congratulations on your plan to give me no attention so I will leave.
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