If God is love, how do we explain the Old Testament passages where he commands the Israelites to eradicate entire groups of people, even the children (Josh 9:24; Num 31; 1 Sam 15)? Sometimes people say it was to punish these people for their evil practices, like child sacrifice. Well, child sacrifice is certainly a terrible thing. But does it make sense to punish child sacrifice by killing all the children?
Let’s think about this for a moment. When cultures engaged in child sacrifice, it’s not because they just loved killing children — it’s because they believed it served as some kind of propitiation, appeasing their gods for the greater good. So if God didn’t approve of child sacrifice, what seems like the most rational way to deal with it: (1) kill everyone, including all the children you don’t want killed, or (2) make yourself known to these people as the one true god and tell them that child sacrifice is not what you want? Wouldn’t option 2 be a win-win scenario?
Here’s something else to consider. If God didn’t like child sacrifice, why did he command Abraham to offer his son Isaac as one? Granted, he stopped the sacrifice before the boy was killed, but isn’t this a weird command for a deity who despises child sacrifice? And what about Psalm 137, where the inspired writer is lamenting Babylon’s destruction of Jerusalem and says the following:
8 O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed,
Happy the one who repays you as you have served us!
9 Happy the one who takes and dashes
Your little ones against the rock!
Furthermore, if God wanted the Canaanites destroyed because of their heinous practices, why stop at Canaan? There were many cultures that engaged in terrible practices like this from time to time — why not send the Israelites to slaughter them all? Instead this “judgment” is only brought against people in the same geographic location that God wanted the Israelites to inhabit:
After the death of Moses the servant of the Lord, it came to pass that the Lord spoke to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ assistant, saying: 2 “Moses My servant is dead. Now therefore, arise, go over this Jordan, you and all this people, to the land which I am giving to them—the children of Israel. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot will tread upon I have given you, as I said to Moses. 4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon as far as the great river, the River Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and to the Great Sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your territory. 5 No man shall be able to stand before you all the days of your life; as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not leave you nor forsake you. 6 Be strong and of good courage, for to this people you shall divide as an inheritance the land which I swore to their fathers to give them.
— Josh 1:1-5So they answered Joshua and said, “Because your servants were clearly told that the Lord your God commanded His servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you; therefore we were very much afraid for our lives because of you, and have done this thing.”
— Josh 9:24
How strange that these passages focus on taking the land from the Canaanites and not on their evil natures…
As a final consideration, even if the only thing left to do with these evil Canaanites was kill them all, does it make sense that God would choose the cruelest and most agonizing way to do it? Instead of speaking them out of existence, or immediately striking them all dead, he has them besieged by invaders. They’re forced to watch their loved ones being massacred before being hacked to death themselves. Would God really command this?
How does a god who would command genocide on this scale differ from the vilest despots of the modern era? What’s the difference between this god and bin Laden? What’s the difference between a god like this and a devil? Could a god this bloody be right?
Finding Truth 
T,
After reading your conversation with Neuro I found my dopamine levels falling off the cliff.
I hope an extra dose of my Prozac can help me.
If it can’t, lie to me like any good Christian would. Reality is just too much for me at the moment.
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@T –You made yourself very clear and I understand your rejection to this research. As I mentioned, I don’t see a problem with you wanting/needing to believe in god. What I do see a problem with is if you believe that all the world should believe in your Yahweh, and his warlike, tribal methodologies.
Yahweh is a war god much like many war gods that came before him. Yahweh promotes neurochemically addictive, hyper-masculine behavior (primarily among males) and the research shows that when there are too many hyper-masculine humans in the world, it becomes very dysfunctional — out of balance. The result is a disruption in normal cognition and emotion, gross errors in judgment, an imperviousness to risk, and lack of empathy for others. This can be said of any culture, whether religious or not.
Yahweh is a mythological war god. Yahweh is no loving father figure except to those who bow down (often in fear) to the dictates of this dictator.
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Neuro,
Too many hyper-masculine females are a far greater danger to mankind then men being men.
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@Judah First: Haven’t seen you comment in a while over here – glad to see you commenting again! Your comments are always very thought provoking.
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T — studies show that primates get a dopamine reward for being submissive. A study out of Wake Forest University demonstrated how dominant monkeys have more dopamine than subordinates — and these submissive monkeys want to be recognized by the dominant monkeys. This helps to insure their survival if they get in good with them. It insures that their genes will be passed on. Religions that promote dominant male gods act in the same way. If you submit and are acknowledge by these alpha male gods, in your case, Yahweh, you get to spend eternity in heaven. Right?
A study published in Current Biology describes how primates will give up their cherry juice reward in order to view images of dominant specie members. [ S.V Shepherd, R.O. Deaner and M.L. Platt, 2006, Social Status Gates Social Attention in Monkeys, Current Biology 16(4):119-20.]
Studies have also shown that when one chooses to suffer for the sake of being acknowledge they get a neurochemical reward.
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T — do you believe all the world should bow down and worship your Yahweh god? Are you on a mission (the Great Commission) to make sure they do?
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Neuro,
Thank you, Ms. Professor, but Christianity isn’t about being submissive it is about being assertive.
Further, sadomasochism is a mental illness, not Christian doctrine.
Christian doctrine is that no greater love has a man, than to lay his life down for his brother.
That is also the ethic of the US soldier at arms who is trained to annihilate the enemy but also to sacrifice his life for his brother at arms and those men, women and children he seeks to defend from evil.
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Correction: *ensure
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“You made yourself very clear and I understand your rejection to this research.”
I don’t reject the research you nit. I reject the conclusions you draw from it which are contradicted by the fact that even in a low dopamine level people still believe in God defying your claims.
“What I do see a problem with is if you believe that all the world should believe in your Yahweh, and his warlike, tribal methodologies.”
Again then move if you have a problem. Evangelicals, Jews, .Muslims under freedom of speech have the right to share their faith. Giddy up to a country that doesn’t have freedom of speech or that doesn’t operate a democracy. You are in the vast minority and in a democracy the majority has the right to express their will.
“Yahweh is a war god much like many war gods that came before him. ”
Your research on Dopamine shows any papers stating that? Nope. Which is why I properly called you hack trying to use science to say what it doesn’t say anything about.Thanks for proving my point
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“T — studies show that primates get a dopamine reward for being submissive. A study out of Wake Forest University demonstrated how dominant monkeys have more dopamine than subordinates”
and great Swami? Lets see how well submission is applicable to a christian? Who here thinks all my posts here demonstrate my sublime gentleness and submission. ROFl
and since you all rubberstamp what Nate says on this blog and your own comrades almost without question your dopamine levels should be off the charts while reading this blog
Hmmmm– that might explain why you at this time demonstrate no sense. -= a point to consider.
“A study published in Current Biology describes how primates will give up their cherry juice reward in order to view images of dominant specie members. [ S.V Shepherd, R.O. Deaner and M.L. Platt, 2006, Social Status Gates Social Attention in Monkeys, Current Biology 16(4):119-20.] ”
What a twit? LOL. That study is about gazing instincts. You’re jumping from dopamine to gazing patterns confirming your true hack status trying desperately to piece together various studies NONE OF WHICH support your claims about God as if they did.
The greatest hilarity of your recent Google scholar rip and paste is that you are using a study about primates PHYSICALLY SEEING pictures as applicable to the worship of an INVISIBLE God
ROFL – Like I said before – What a Nit!
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“T — do you believe all the world should bow down and worship your Yahweh god? Are you on a mission (the Great Commission) to make sure they do??”
Nope since my book says that all the world will not bow down and that only few find the way. Why would I be on a mission to make sure that what my book says won’t happen will happen?
Neuro you are about to set a record for atheists at how fast they can show their full range of ignorance
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“After reading your conversation with Neuro I found my dopamine levels falling off the cliff.”
The amusing thing about it is with depression being rampant you would think the falling dopamine levels would swell the ranks of atheists at least to a point where they could claim high double digits in most polls
Apparently atheism must be so pathetic they choose something else instead like psyche wards.
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@Victoria,
Some of your recent comments as well as the justifications we’ve seen of genocide here remind me of this video you posted a while back on your blog. You can see the justification of ethnic cleansing at 3:22 in the video:
Very disturbing and scary stuff. And people wonder why non-believers voice their opinions on this stuff. The fact that there are people who still try to justify these atrocities is the reason why both believers as well as non-believers need to continue to speak against it. Those who justify it even try to say that society has some kind of different definition for genocide based on whether or not God sanctions it. Never mind that practically all groups who justify their genocidal activities claim that their God has sanctioned it.
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T,
You are absolutely right!
The poor, hopelessly depressed sot that I am, I only lasted 30 seconds as an atheist.
I really don’t see how atheists can abuse themselves with such self-righteous fervor.
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“Some of your recent comments as well as the justifications we’ve seen of genocide here remind me of this video you posted a while back on your blog”
if you have both seen it then why post it?? You don’t seriously think we watch your silly videos. Neuro’s references to papers that do not support his conclusions are bad enough.
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“I really don’t see how atheists can abuse themselves with such self-righteous fervor”
Neuro has already shown you the way. Can you imagine the dopamine rush thinking you are more righteous than God?
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T — As I mentioned earlier, I see no issues with faith — and there are many caring Christians who are not trying to encourage or force everyone to abide by the same biblical rules and law, or their interpretation of biblical rules and laws.
It’s just that you are worshiping a god (Yahweh) who would most likely be convicted of crimes against humanity if he was human and walking the planet today.
I cannot, in good conscience, worship such a god. No reward (be it dopamine, oxytocin, acknowledgment, or the promise of eternal life) will convince me otherwise.
Good day.
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“It’s just that you are worshiping a god (Yahweh) who would most likely be convicted of crimes against humanity if he was human and walking the planet today. ”
Given a jury representative of the world’s theistic make up your claim of conviction is just more nonsense you have not thought through. Most of the word recognizes God’s right to judge and in fact many people pray for it when they see evil By that rational as I have said before God is guilty merely by the fact people die. IF God were human then he would deserve to be convicted because he would not know the future and hearts of men. Seeing how he is God with those capabilities your parallel makes no sense
IN the end it comes down to an argument about God not allowing us to have the life he gave forever regardless of our actions. we should live forever or he is guilty of genocide.
Some poor soul tried to beg that people could die with undeliberate action from God but ran away when trying to define how God could be undeliberate.
This is just a rhetoric anyway. Everyone knows that these were unique situation as there have been no sanctioned killings by the biblical God in over 3,000 years, the “its scary” and “used to justify” modern implication is just clap trap atheists float for emotional rather than emperical appeal
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Howie, thank you for sharing the video. After I left Christianity, I came to have a better understanding of the causes of antisocial behavior. My research also showed me how little Yahweh knew about his own creation. Yahweh would not have promoted the very things that cause neurohomornal imbalances, brain damage, brain atrophy, mental illness, neurological disorders, pons dysfunction, attachment disorders, and so much more.
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But Yahweh did..
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“I have a background in Psychology” – I’m sure you do, T – most likely as a patient.
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“Too many hyper-masculine females are a far greater danger to mankind then men being men.” – enter the other patient —
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“That is also the ethic of the US soldier at arms who is trained to annihilate the enemy but also to sacrifice his life for his brother at arms and those men, women and children he seeks to defend from evil.”
Over the past 60 years, most US soldiers haven’t been sent to fight ANYone evil, they’ve been sent to make the American rich, richer.
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““I have a background in Psychology” – I’m sure you do, T – most likely as a patient.”
Arch you would feel pretty at home in the ward. Many patients also think their doctors are patients 🙂
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Arch,
President GW hunted your mass murdering, rapist buddy Saddam Hussein down like the dirty rat he was and brought him justice:
He was hanged by the neck until dead.
And his two maniac sons were slaughtered in the streets like atheist Philistines by US military forces.
God bless the US Armed Forces and the rapists and maniacs they brought to justice.
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