If God is love, how do we explain the Old Testament passages where he commands the Israelites to eradicate entire groups of people, even the children (Josh 9:24; Num 31; 1 Sam 15)? Sometimes people say it was to punish these people for their evil practices, like child sacrifice. Well, child sacrifice is certainly a terrible thing. But does it make sense to punish child sacrifice by killing all the children?
Let’s think about this for a moment. When cultures engaged in child sacrifice, it’s not because they just loved killing children — it’s because they believed it served as some kind of propitiation, appeasing their gods for the greater good. So if God didn’t approve of child sacrifice, what seems like the most rational way to deal with it: (1) kill everyone, including all the children you don’t want killed, or (2) make yourself known to these people as the one true god and tell them that child sacrifice is not what you want? Wouldn’t option 2 be a win-win scenario?
Here’s something else to consider. If God didn’t like child sacrifice, why did he command Abraham to offer his son Isaac as one? Granted, he stopped the sacrifice before the boy was killed, but isn’t this a weird command for a deity who despises child sacrifice? And what about Psalm 137, where the inspired writer is lamenting Babylon’s destruction of Jerusalem and says the following:
8 O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed,
Happy the one who repays you as you have served us!
9 Happy the one who takes and dashes
Your little ones against the rock!
Furthermore, if God wanted the Canaanites destroyed because of their heinous practices, why stop at Canaan? There were many cultures that engaged in terrible practices like this from time to time — why not send the Israelites to slaughter them all? Instead this “judgment” is only brought against people in the same geographic location that God wanted the Israelites to inhabit:
After the death of Moses the servant of the Lord, it came to pass that the Lord spoke to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ assistant, saying: 2 “Moses My servant is dead. Now therefore, arise, go over this Jordan, you and all this people, to the land which I am giving to them—the children of Israel. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot will tread upon I have given you, as I said to Moses. 4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon as far as the great river, the River Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and to the Great Sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your territory. 5 No man shall be able to stand before you all the days of your life; as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not leave you nor forsake you. 6 Be strong and of good courage, for to this people you shall divide as an inheritance the land which I swore to their fathers to give them.
— Josh 1:1-5So they answered Joshua and said, “Because your servants were clearly told that the Lord your God commanded His servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you; therefore we were very much afraid for our lives because of you, and have done this thing.”
— Josh 9:24
How strange that these passages focus on taking the land from the Canaanites and not on their evil natures…
As a final consideration, even if the only thing left to do with these evil Canaanites was kill them all, does it make sense that God would choose the cruelest and most agonizing way to do it? Instead of speaking them out of existence, or immediately striking them all dead, he has them besieged by invaders. They’re forced to watch their loved ones being massacred before being hacked to death themselves. Would God really command this?
How does a god who would command genocide on this scale differ from the vilest despots of the modern era? What’s the difference between this god and bin Laden? What’s the difference between a god like this and a devil? Could a god this bloody be right?
Finding Truth 
“are you calling your god an atheist?”
He doesn’t have to—the bible does it for him:
“I am Yahweh, and there is no other; there is no God but Me.” Isaiah 45:5 (Holman)
Now, what was the ending of the passage that begins: “The fool hath said in his heart…” again? It’s on the tip of my tongue, but I can’t quite remember. 🙂
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@Ron — LOL
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@Ron
I know, I know!
”There’s no messiah in here. There’s a mess all right…but no messiah.”
That’s the one, right?
or was it…
“I’m kosher mum. I’m a Red Sea Pedestrian and proud of it!”
It has to be one of these two.
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@Ark
I was thinking it may have been: “He’s not the Messiah. He’s a very naughty boy!”
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@Ron.
Ah…well I was close. But the originals have been lost in the Columbia Studios sands of time, no doubt.
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SOM, RE: “The meaning of the Bible can only be approached through study and lots of thinking.” – So that would mean you can’t get past the cover.
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SOM, RE: “And it has been found that the chimp gets nowhere near Shakespeare and ends up defecating all over the keyboard.” – That’ll teach ’em not to let you anywhere near a keyboard!.
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KC, RE: “SOM, I only asked you one question. “SOM, who caused the evil in the following scriptures ???”
Don’t forget the “goddidit!” hardening of Pharaoh’s heart, that resulted in the deaths of all the Egyptian first-borns —
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Hifzanshafiee, I learn much from the imaginations of men long since dead – Shakespeare, Gibran, Poe, Twain, the list is nearly endless – but I view what I learn as suggestions, not hard and fast rules by which my life MUST be lived. I have sufficient imagination to decide for myself how I choose to live – I would suspect it is one who feels they must live by the rules of others, who truly lacks imagination. I can respect the rules of society, the rules we need to assure each other peace, tranquility, and freedom, created by living people, for the needs of today, people we can vote out of office and elect others, if they don’t meet our needs – those aren’t the rules I mean.
By much that you’ve said, I get the impression that you are a follower of Islam, which likely means that at least five times each day, you prostrate yourself, bowing in the direction of Mecca, and pray – what would happen, if one day, you didn’t. Would the world end? Would you be struck dead? What about two days? Think how much more time you would have, to hug your children, be with your family, just LIVE, if you didn’t feel compelled to follow what – to me – are such ridiculous rules?
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KC, RE: “Sorry Arch. Didn’t mean to steal your thunder.” – my thunder, much like the pennies in the little cup next to a convenience store cash register, is there for the taking, no stealing needed.
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Arch,
The real tragedy is that God says, “I create evil,” and you unwitting think you understand what God is saying.
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Arch,
Don’t blame me for your confusion.
You need to own up to your own maladies.
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Not sure if this will work, but here’s a list of the people God killed in the Bible:
Brick Testament
BT
Gen.38:7,
BT
BT
BT
Num.3:4,
26:61,
BT
Lev.24:10-23,
BT
Num.15:32-36,
BT
Num.16:27,
BT
Num.16:35,
26:10,
BT
Num.16:49,
BT
Num.25:9,
BT
Num.31:1-35,
BT
Joshua 7:10-12,
24-26,
BT
Joshua 8:1-25,
BT
Judges 1:4,
BT
Jg.3:15-22,
BT
Jg.3:28-29,
BT
Jg.7:2-22,
8:10,
BT
Jg.14:19,
BT
Jg.15:14-15,
BT
Jg.16:27-30,
BT
Jg.20:35-37,
BT
Jg.20:44-46
1 Sam.6:19
1 Sam.14:12
1 Sam.15:32-33
1 Sam.25:38
2 Sam.6:6-7,
1 Chr.13:9-10
2 Sam.12:14-18
2 Sam.21:6-9
including women and children)
2 Sam.24:13,
1 Chr.21:7
1 Kg.13:1-24
1 Kg.20:28-29
1 Kg.20:30
killing a prophet
1 Kg.20:35-36
2 Kg.1:2-4, 17,
2 Chr.22:7-9
2 Kg.1:9-12
2 Kg.2:23-24
Elijah
2 Kg.7:17-20
2 Kg.9:33-37
2 Kg.17:25-26
2 Kg.19:35,
2 Chr.32:21,
Is.37:36
1 Chr.10:14
2 Chr.13:15-17
2 Chr.13:20
2 Chr.14:9-14
2 Chr.21:14-19
Ezek.24:15-18
Acts 5:1-10
Acts 12:23,
BT
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Silliness, RE: “You need to own up to your own maladies” – I have a touch of hay fever, but other than that, I’m practically perfect!
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Arch,
That’s exactly right. I can’t get past the cover of the Bible.
Now if you could only know your own limitations you might see the world in an entirely new light.
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Nate, RE: “a list of the people God killed in the Bible” – and that doesn’t even count the flood!
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Very significant point, Arch! And thanks for letting me know that list was out there.
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“Not sure if this will work, but here’s a list of the people God killed in the Bible:”
You wasted your time. Whats the distinction between who he killed in the Bible and who died as a result of sin over the time that isn’t recorded? SOM or someone else brought this up before. People all die of something and its very rarely nice (even growing old isn’t) so its essentially a logic that says if God doesn’t allow us to live forever he’s evil
terribly stupid stupid logic.
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“The real tragedy is that God says, “I create evil,” and you unwitting think you understand what God is saying.”
SOM you give Arch too much credit. He and they they wouldn’t want to know. Its like a political soundbite. Its merely stated for a campaign moment.
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People all die of something and its very rarely nice (even growing old isn’t) so its essentially a logic that says if God doesn’t allow us to live forever he’s evil
According to that line of logic murderers should get off, I guess, because everybody’s gonna die from something. And it could be something equally not nice.
Stupid, stupid logic.
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“According to that line of logic murderers should get off, I guess, because everybody’s gonna die from something.”
Murders don’t own someone else’s life. thinking that God who does is equivalent to men who don’t is also
Stupid stupid logic
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thinking that God who does is equivalent to men who don’t is also
I don’t think there is a God to own life, but if there was why would he break his own commandments by murdering people?
I know, I got this one…they had it coming. It was the consequences of their sin.
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Christian Morality = Might Makes Right
Zero logic.
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Do as I say; not as I do.
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“I don’t think there is a God to own life, but if there was why would he break his own commandments by murdering people? ”
If you thought phrasing it differently would make your equivalence work. Bad news.
it didn’t.
God owns life there is no commandment he broke that says that he cannot take back what is his. and yes that still breaks down to if He exists then we should live forever no matter what we do which is still a
stupid stupid argument.
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