You know Kathy, we’ve been fairly blunt with you today. Flippant, too. And it’s tough when people talk to/about you that way. I’m sorry for that.
If we could cut through all the rhetoric for a second, I’d like to commiserate with you. A little over 4 years ago, I was a very dedicated Christian. I had some doubts, but they weren’t about the Christian faith, just my understanding of it.
I felt like there were problems in my beliefs about the gospel. I believed in a literal Hell, and I believed a lot of people would be going there. But I had a very hard time squaring that with a loving God. I had matured enough to realize that most people were pretty decent. Not perfect, certainly, but good people who cared about others and typically wanted to do the right thing. I didn’t think such people deserved Hell. In fact, like Paul, I often thought that if God would accept it, I’d gladly go to Hell myself, if it would save my friends and family. And if everyone else could be added into that deal too, even better.
So if I felt that way, could I be more compassionate than God? Of course not. But I had a very hard time finding anything in the Bible that backed up an idea that most people, regardless of creed or belief would be saved.
I didn’t give up though. I knew about Universalists, so I decided to read up on their reasons for thinking everyone went to Heaven. It sounded good, but I just wasn’t convinced by their arguments. I just didn’t see the Bible teaching such a doctrine, and I still believed the Bible was the inerrant word of God.
I was in a state of flux.
And that’s the position I was in when I first ran across articles that pointed out flaws in the Bible. I was shocked by what the articles said, but since I didn’t have any answers against them at the moment, I got busy with research. I didn’t even comment on the articles — I just went to work. It wasn’t about winning any arguments; it was simply a search for answers.
I think that frame of mind I was in made all the difference for me. Deep down, I was already struggling. The doctrines I had long believed in, and even taught to others, didn’t fit together in my mind as well as they once had.
That’s probably the difference between you and me. I get the feeling that you question nothing about your faith. Not trying to put you down about that; just making an observation.
For me, discovering that the Bible was not the perfect book I had always thought it to be, and finding out that some of these church leaders I had always admired knew of these problems but never spoke of them, helped me make sense of a lot of things. It took time, and it wasn’t easy to come to the realizations, but everything finally fell into place for me when I realized Christianity was just another religion. For the first time, I finally understood the sentiment of that line from “Amazing Grace,” I once was blind, but now I see…
I don’t know if that’s helpful to you at all. Maybe one day it will be. Maybe one day, something will make you ask a few questions, and you’ll think back to those non- believers who were so insistent that Christianity was certainly not the only way. If that day comes, I hope you’ll find this exchange helpful and realize you’re not alone.
Finding Truth 
“Have you ever heard of celibacy Arch?” – Celibacy is really not the barrel of monkeys it’s cracked up to be! I know, I was celibate once for almost a WEEK!
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“I knew a guy who was married 3 times before he died of aids.” – 10-year old Ryan White died of Aides – never had sex in his life! What does that prove? You don’t have to have gay sex to get Aides, the virus is EVERYwhere, even if you DO think it’s “gawd’s punishment”>
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Kathy, but you are WRONG when you say “There is nothing in my comments that suggest that.”
You flat out said “On the average, biological parents are going to be more caring and attentive to their children than non biological parents.” Adopted children are raised by NON-BIOLOGICAL parents. So you ARE saying these parents are not as caring and attentive. That may not be what you meant, but it IS what you wrote.
There’s no reason to not believe that some people do choose homosexual relationships. That’s your opinion. I asked for references.
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arch – that week you were celibate. .. that must have been the week you were waiting for Bianca to come across. ..
. .the border, that is. 🙂
(just so you know, I am giggling like mad, here. . . I figure one might as well laugh, as cry)
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There’s that subtle communication again —
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Yeah, well I’d like to peel someone’s grape right now, but not in the manner in which you do. I have a good friend who is homosexual and I’ve seen him go through pure hell because of bigots like Kathy and Mike.
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“arch – that week you were celibate” – No, Carmen, it was the week I got the shot of penicillin —
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“Yeah, well I’d like to peel someone’s grape right now, but not in the manner in which you do.” – A snippet from a private conversation, folks – move along, nothing to see here —
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NeuroNotes – I know EXACTLY how you feel; it’s unfortunate that such ignorance walks around unchecked. Choosing to be gay? Just who would CHOOSE to be discriminated against, vilified and persecuted? Such rot. Obviously, Kathy doesn’t know anyone who has a same-sex relationship. It’s a cozy little world, there in fundyville with only like-minded individuals for company (you know, the narrow-minded, homophobic dimwits).
Like I say, stay up there on your high-horse, Kathy. Meanwhile, those of us who have friends, neighbours and loved ones in the LBTQ community will keep loving them just as they are; the same thing I think about my heterosexual friends, neighbours and loved ones.
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That by “fighting” my nausea, I can come to like broccoli?
Mmmm broccoli! You broccophobes are so silly.
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See Why when i say you make such foolish points? The oldest child would be 14 and the average under 6 and you think you have made a good point.
Did I mention children in my post? No. Reading comprehension, TB. Try it some time.
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“Mmmm broccoli! You broccophobes are so silly.” – You and GHW Bush!
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I’m with you, Carmen. They don’t see what we see.
Have you seen this?
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But then, the Dude’s still jumping out of planes at 90, so it might be worth a try – I wouldn’t mind jumping out of planes myself, as long as I could keep one foot on the ground.
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Arch,
You do not like them.
SO you say.
Try it! Try it!
And you may.
Try it and you may I say.
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Oh, I have – bleeecccccchhhhhhh!
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Nan,
“Kathy, but you are WRONG when you say “There is nothing in my comments that suggest that.”
You flat out said “On the average, biological parents are going to be more caring and attentive to their children than non biological parents.” Adopted children are raised by NON-BIOLOGICAL parents. So you ARE saying these parents are not as caring and attentive. That may not be what you meant, but it IS what you wrote.”
Nan, don’t you understand what is meant by “on average”? That doesn’t mean that it is the situation in EVERY case.. but OVERALL it’s going to be the case. It means that it is true of MOST.. just based on the common sense I laid out. But of course there can be exceptions.
Nothing in my comment states otherwise.
“There’s no reason to not believe that some people do choose homosexual relationships. That’s your opinion. I asked for references.”
I gave you my reference.. it’s based on my observances and common sense. Do you have any proof that it’s not true? First, every homosexual couple CHOOSES to engage in a homosexual relationship.. what I should have stated was that many people in homosexual relationships weren’t “born gay”. For example, I’ve heard many times women claiming to CHOOSE gay relationships because they are tired of men.
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Neuro said:
“Kathy, what is it with your obsession to control other people. You go out and get pregnant out of wedlock, get married young because you got knocked up, then get divorced and you have zero business telling other people who they should love and how they should live. You can’t even get your own shit together.”
I’m not trying to control anyone.. and I’m not “telling” anyone how to live.. I’m just sharing my beliefs. Sorry but bringing up my past mistakes (as if you have none) isn’t going to silence me. It’s a cheap tactic.. that few liberals won’t take advantage of.
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Haven’t you learned yet Nan, just like the Bible, Kathy doesn’t have to prove that ANYthing she says is true, YOU have to prove that it isn’t!
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Do you find yourself saving this post for last? I know I do.
@Ark, “ANY retreat that has religion as its premise is child abuse. No exceptions. Period.”
Yeah but you hate religion. It really is a bias of yours.
@NueroNecromancer
“Do your children start crying “tears of joy” and raising their hands in the air when you all dance around the house?”
Well no. I’ve never been able to get revival to show up to my house.
As for their state of mind being suggestive or not, we really can argue that for hours. My only point about that retreat was to make sure everyone understood what they were seeing. If you want to read what I said and continue on believing it is abuse because it is indoctrination of children, that’s fine. I just wanted to make sure all of you had all of the information before moving forward.
@Zoe,
” Tears of joy? Sure. Why not? It’s an incredible relief for them. Does that mean it can’t be abusive?”
I believe it CAN be abusive. Sure. I have never been a fan of guilt and fear as tools of the church. It’s just not what God told me to preach so I’d love to see the mainstream ditch it for something healthier.
@Charity
Sweet! I can always use another unsespecting bastard harass:)
@”The BIRD”
[“Anybody know where there is an Assembly of God in Austin?” – no, but I play a pretty mean ocarina, if you’ll hum a few bars, I’ll try to fake it!]
Hm hmmm hm hmm hmm hm hmmmm
“My son in Oklahoma just emailed me that a group of 300 Jahovah’s Witlesses just moved, en mass, into a small town just 30 miles from him, a town so small, the inflow just doubled the population. The town is freaked out.”
What is that all about? Did son have any idea why they moved in?
Later on; “I almost wish there was a god, Ark – I’d give almost anything to see his face when he meets Mike!”
Unfortunately, and I have counseled him against this, he loves Mike very much. Sorry.
@Mike
“Me? Your face will be far better. I’m going to ask for a replay of yours when you do…”
Unfortunately, and I have counseled him against this, he loves Arch very much. Sorry Mike.
Back @”The BIRD”
“Why Atheism Will Replace Religion: New Evidence”
There is a lot of supposition in that message. I don’t think his fiunding s are as conclusive as he makes it sound. I mean, why are there over 500 churches, mosques and synogoghues in Austin? All of them doing pretty well. And Bible belt or not this is an extremely liberal town.
And just cause I gotta, “The illusion of religion helps people feel good, despite miserable experiences.”
NO SH%T. That is what it is supposed to do. Give you hope I mean.
@ Nan, “If you’re on FB, check out this page: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152501565089697&fref=nf”
You didn’t actually comment. Am I to take it you think this video is bad? I’m going to reply under the assumtion you are so if I get this wrong let me know so I can appologize.
So, are we now not to be allowed to pass down our beliefs to our children? Because that is all I am seeing here. The child is copying what it has seen her parents do. Where is the offense in this please?
@ Carmen, so no tongue stud?
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Neuro, cont..
“Yeah, well I’d like to peel someone’s grape right now, but not in the manner in which you do. I have a good friend who is homosexual and I’ve seen him go through pure hell because of bigots like Kathy and Mike.”
You are the ignorant one Neuro. People have a right to disagree. We can’t hold opinions based on how it affects the feelings of others. But that’s logic and common sense.. something you/ liberals aren’t very good at comprehending.
Basically what you / liberals.. people who like to call others “bigots” and other hateful names when they don’t agree.. what you all are demanding is that we put aside our belief in God and instead choose beliefs that please you and homosexuals. You expect us to put aside such “silly” questions about our purpose and meaning and why we’re here.. and instead worry about pleasing you. Liberals are the most incredibly narcissistic people on the planet. You have no respect for the rights of others to believe how they choose, even if it’s a belief in regards to the ultimate question. We strive to live our entire lives to do what we believe is right.. to please our Creator, but we should only do so IF it doesn’t displease you. If we have to choose, why we’re nothing but “bigots” and “haters” if we don’t choose you over God. And you all wonder why I resent liberals.
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Kathy — one word:
Copout.
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“Back @”The BIRD”
“Why Atheism Will Replace Religion: New Evidence”
There is a lot of supposition in that message.” – There’s whole lot more in the Bible —
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oh sure Arch, throw that in my face.
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meh, why get upset? The demographics are slowly shifting. Nineteen states have now enacted legal same-sex marriage, and recent Pew polls show that 53% of the population now supports same-sex marriage, with the highest support coming from the younger generations, women, liberals, moderates, independents, Democrats, Catholics, and mainline protestants The main opposition is in the conservative evangelical sector. Kathy and her homophobic ilk are part of a dying breed.
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