Well, after breaking 2000 comments on the previous thread, I think it’s time to move to a new one. Feel free to continue the conversation here.
Also, I want to make a note about future posts. The tone on this blog for the last month or so has been decidedly different than what it used to be. While that’s definitely made things interesting, I’d like to move back to a tone more in line with the way things used to be. So going forward, I want the comments on all new posts to remain civil. We can all make our points, and I expect to see a wide range of opinions. But I don’t want to get into name-calling and bashing when we can’t all agree on particular issues. Let’s try to stay focused on the points and not get side-tracked with personal stuff. Let’s also keep each comment substantive so we don’t rack up so many comments in such a short period of time that it’s hard for everyone to keep track.
If you don’t feel like you can participate within those guidelines, then feel free to continue posting within this thread (and any future “Kathy” threads, if they’re needed), because I won’t be enforcing any guidelines here. But if you want to comment on any other posts, you’ll need to abide by the rules I just laid out. Otherwise, your comment will be subject to deletion, and after a warning, you might find yourself banned from at least that thread, if not the entire blog.
If there are any questions, let me know.
Thanks
Yahusha doesn’t lead people after other gods. He kept Torah perfectly. Deuteronomy 13 is about Paul, “if anyone preaches to you another Jesus or another gospel than the one I preach, let him be accursed.” and the other Jesus that he preaches.
LikeLike
If you study Judaism, you will see that before Yahusha, they always expected to anointed ones. Mashiach Ben Yoseph the suffering servant, and Mashiach Ben David the reigning king. Hosea 6:3 says he will come to you like the rain, the former and the latter rain. Just like the feasts are a picture of Ya’s salvation, and they come in the spring feasts and then the fall, the former and the latter. A perfect example of the chiastic structures found throughout.
But the Jews won’t recognize messiah as long as Christians are teaching he did away with the law.
LikeLike
Two messiah! Sorry, my swiping app and auto correct are plotting against me
LikeLike
Kathy, the trinity isn’t supported in the OT. “Elohim” is a vague term that could have meant a couple of different things, including the gods of the Levant. Jesus came performing signs (as talked about in Deut 13) and telling everyone that he was divine — a concept very different from what Moses talked about.
Nonetheless, your ability to sidestep Deuteronomy 13 and argue for Christianity’s legitimacy over Judaism is an excellent example of just what a Muslim would do to explain why Islam has replaced Christianity. And the same thing a Mormon would do as well.
LikeLike
And this comment to Ruth is part of the problem:
You’re not trusting God, Kathy — you’re trusting the anonymous authors of the OT. That’s a very different thing. And when they say that God commanded the slaughter of children and the kidnapping of virgin girls, that should be a HUGE clue to you that these people weren’t really speaking for god.
If there really is a God, I’m sure he’s weeping somewhere, saddened by your willingness to believe such horrible things about him.
LikeLike
“There is Islam and there is Christianity.. only ONE can be True. And that would make the other a fraud.” – OR – here’s a thought – NEITHER is true, and BOTH are frauds!
LikeLike
Commands of genocide in Islam are different because their religion is false. And I say that BASED on the evidence we have. And this is always the part that you and William and Arch conveniently ignore. The evidence.
See Kathy, this is why I’ve included “Evidence” on the list of Words that Kathy Doesn’t Understand – you still don’t realize that in the last six weeks, you haven’t provided any.
LikeLike
Without researching the answer, I’ll try to guess some possible reasons.. to strengthen Israel, to build up their numbers.
Why would your god want them to build up their numbers by interbreeding with Canaanites, when in Leviticus, he tells Moses he doesn’t even want the Israelites interbreeding within the 12 tribes – all breeding should take place WITHIN each tribe, so as to keep as many genetic defects as close to home as possible and multiply their likelihood exponentially.
LikeLike
Male babies would be no more devoted to their parents’ gods than female “virgin” babies.
Ah, but you don’t get it Ruth – males produce all of the characteristics of people, women are only incubators where all that man stuff turns into a cake. People of the time had no idea that each parent contributed an equal number of chromosomes, and since they invented their god, he didn’t know it either. Male babies, unless castrated, would have produced more Canaanites, they had to go, but any tribe can always use extra incubators.
LikeLike
You intrigue me, Laurie – I’ve been trying to pigeon-hole you, and you don’t easily fit. You say, “Torah,” rather than, “the Torah,” and you seem extremely knowledgeable about Jewish terminology that, combined with your own statement, “I am not a Christian,” one could easily assume that you are an adherent of Judaism.
Yet you also seem knowledgeable about Christianity, and share my and Nan’s opinion that Paul hi-jacked it, which most followers of Judaism wouldn’t bother concerning themselves.
Hmmm. I’ll keep putting pieces together until something fits (rather than being like Kathy, who starts with a picture and discards all pieces that don’t resemble her image.)
LikeLike
I realize that you can’t keep up with all the posts, Nate, but Kathy doesn’t believe there ARE any anonymous authors – all are known and well-documented (to her).
“If there really is a God, I’m sure he’s weeping somewhere, saddened by your willingness to believe such horrible things about him.”
I’m sure he’ll zap her someday when she’s crossing the street —
LikeLike
I wear tzitzit with a blue thread, bake challah every Friday evening, keep kosher but don’t have a kosher kitchen, and according to the mizvot I have law on my door posts and lintel. Does that help?
Humor me for just a moment arch, and pretend that we share common beliefs. Why do think YHWH created us?
LikeLike
Would “Messianic Judaism” describe your beliefs, Laurie?
LikeLike
I’m expecting an intelligent response, not the usual jackassery btw!
LikeLike
Jackassery? arch?? 🙂
LikeLike
Hey Nate – I’m not at all presuming to speak for Kathy, but that vast majority of Messianic Jews accept the precepts of Evangelical Christianity, including the writings of Paul, and if any of them observe Mosaic laws it is only for cultural reasons. Those were the groups I was involved in.
However, there are some sects of Messianic Judaism that remind me of some of Laurie’s views – especially the belief that Jesus still wants believers to follow “the law”. I’m not sure if rejection of Paul’s writings is part of those groups though.
LikeLike
oops – I meant “speak for Laurie”. These Kathy posts are driving me insane that I don’t even know what I’m writing. I for sure couldn’t speak for Kathy. 😉
LikeLike
One possible explanation is that males are more obligated and compelled to fight for and with their “brothers”. If you look at the news today, you can see that it’s a popular recruiting tool.
Babies? Infants? Toddlers? Any child that young raised by Israelites would probably think they were Israelites. Especially since all the teenage to adult Canaanites would have been killed. What brothers?
LikeLike
Nate,
messianics believe in Paul, which creates a lot of confusion on issues like the rapture and eternal torment which are not founded on Torah.
LikeLike
Thanks for the info, Laurie and Howie. I obviously know next to nothing about Messianic Judaism.
Laurie, is there any sort of denominational description or name that would be a good representation of your views?
Thanks
LikeLike
“Humor me for just a moment arch, and pretend that we share common beliefs. Why do think YHWH created us?”
We DO share common beliefs – we both like you.
Laurie, that’s like a bird, telling me to fly, saying, “See, it’s easy! – I can’t.
I can’t even speculate why a mythical creature would do ANYthing. Why does Superman put on a pair of glasses, and believe no one recognizes him?
However the entity described in the Bible seems to suggest a deep-seated personality disorder, requiring the ego-inflation that comes with praise, supplication, and absolute, unquestioned obedience of given orders – so to give you an answer to your hypothetical question regarding a mythical creature, I’d have to say, for the ego gratification that comes with having dependent pets.
LikeLike
“I wear tzitzit with a blue thread, bake challah every Friday evening, keep kosher but don’t have a kosher kitchen, and according to the mizvot I have law on my door posts and lintel. Does that help?”
Sooo — you’re Buddhist? 🙂
LikeLike
“I’m expecting an intelligent response, not the usual jackassery btw!”
To which of your comments? I prefer not to limit my jackassery any more than absolutely necessary!
LikeLike
“Jackassery? arch?? 🙂”
Carmen, ve haf vways off dealing viz pipple like you!
LikeLike
Laurie, I would love to sit down and have a conversation with you! I think we see many things from the same perspective as related to the Jewish people and ESPECIALLY related to Paul. I would love for you to read my book, but if nothing else, I would be willing to send you the chapter on Paul.
LikeLike