Sins of the Father: Is part of Josh Duggar’s sexual deviancy a result of his upbringing?

By this time, practically everyone has heard about the child molestation scandal surrounding Josh Duggar of 19 Kids & Counting fame. For those of you not as familiar with the story, the bare bones are these: Josh Duggar, who is now 27 years old, married, and the father 3 kids, molested 5 young girls (most of whom were his sisters) when he was 14 and 15. His parents found out and dealt with the matter privately. Actually, the way they handled it makes for quite a story in itself, and I recommend reading up on it. If it were fiction, it would be hard to believe.

Today, I read another article that showed where Josh’s dad, Jim Bob Duggar (yes, that’s his real name), said back in 2002 that incest and rape should be capital offenses. The irony’s pretty thick.

It goes without saying that this is a tragic story, especially for the young girls that were involved. And if you follow social media at all, you’ve probably seen some of the examples of schadenfreude that we sometimes feel toward people like Josh Duggar when they’re brought low.

At the same time, part of me feels a little sorry for this guy, because I can’t help but wonder if his upbringing didn’t have something to do with what happened. We’re not just talking about any old Christian household here. While I’m not a Christian and write against Christianity regularly, there are a number of Christian families who are able to convey a pretty healthy view of sex to their kids. The Duggar family is something else entirely. They adhere to a form of ultra-conservatism that is hard for most of us to identify with.

There’s a really great article about Duggar at Jezebel.com that’s definitely worth reading. In it, the author uses a chart that she got from an article by Libby Anne, who blogs at Patheos. I think this chart is brilliant and explains so much:

Josh Duggar, at ages 14 and 15, grew up in a home where any kind of sexual expression that wasn’t within the bounds of marriage was considered sin. As the chart shows, consent was not a major part of what constituted “allowable” sex. TV was restricted, their internet service was filtered, and there was no physical contact or kissing with the people these kids dated (source). I imagine that they also viewed masturbation as sinful. While someone like Victoria (NeuroNotes) has likely done much more research on this kind of thing than I have, I can easily see where this kind of sexual repression could lead a kid like Josh Duggar to make these kinds of mistakes. When things like rape and murder share the same label (“sin”) as things like masturbation and lust, then for some people, the lines become blurry. If a person is already in trouble with God for one sin, what real difference does it make if they go ahead and engage in another? He would have known that certain magazines, TV channels, and websites were all reliable sources of pornography but would have had no way to access any of them. I can see where that kind of frustration and repression could turn into a dangerous obsession.

I’m certainly not defending him or what he did. And plenty of people have grown up in households that had the same restrictive view of sex without resorting to molestation. But I still wonder if things might have played out differently had he been raised with a healthier view of sexuality.

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76 thoughts on “Sins of the Father: Is part of Josh Duggar’s sexual deviancy a result of his upbringing?”

  1. Nate, thank you for the shoutout, and I concur with Secretsally, great post. I tend to agree with you that things would have most likely turned our differently if Josh had been raised with a healthy view of sexuality.

    In his article “ATI’s “Sex Ed” Curriculum: Silencing Victims and Excusing Sex Crime”, Nicholas Ducote, of Homeschoolers Anonymous, writes:

    “I’m not here to say I know what was going on in Josh Duggar’s mind all those years ago, but I can tell you what I felt when I was taught these things as a teenager.

    This teaching really messed me up. I assumed I was no better than a sex criminal because I had sexual thoughts. If I wanted to be with a girl, I was no better than a violent rapist. Sexual thoughts are natural for pubescent teens, and making them feel their life and soul are in literal danger by even thinking these thoughts fucks you up. How is it productive sex education to tell young people that they might as well commit the act if they are going to think about it three times?”

    This is the same “sex education” that Josh got. It’s reprehensible. I recommend reading the full article.

    https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/atis-sex-ed-curriculum-silencing-victims-and-excusing-sex-crime/

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Thanks for chiming in, Victoria! I knew you would have some thoughts about this. 🙂 And I can relate to what Ducote says… I’ll definitely check out his article.

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  3. I’m not defending him or what he did, either, but I feel much the same way as you about it. If sex wasn’t some dirty secret perhaps he wouldn’t have felt the need to take advantage of those more vulnerable than he and perhaps he wouldn’t have felt the need to hide it under the cloak of night. Allowing children, and, yes, he was still a child at 14 to understand that their sexual thoughts are not something dirty and ugly, but something natural might alleviate some of this tension they feel.

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  4. this story really affects me.

    when I was nine years old my 14 yr old brother molested me for the first time. it lasted for a couple of years. he would tell me that if I told my parents they would never believe me and if I did tell he would beat my ass.

    when I was 11 I told him I was going to tell and he beat me up so badly that I had to be taken to the hospital emergency room.

    my family was all churchy idiots like the duggars. just stupid through and through.

    my brother became a big wig in the church and goes around preaching anti gay shit.

    the abuse did affect me throughout my life, I drank and did tons of drugs. It wasn’t until I turned 40 that I dealt with it, and when I did tell my parents, my brother denied it, they believed him and told me I needed to find jeeezzzuuusssss. it was a mess, I don’t speak to any of them anymore.

    my cousin, who was a pastor, molested his two step daughters starting at the age when they turned 12 yrs old. when the oldest turned 17 she went to the police, he was arrested, but continued to lie about it, and his family lied about it and tried the cover up.

    this is the main reason Christians make me want to puke. I think situations like the duggars and mine are the rule, not the exception.

    I don’t trust a christians far as I can spit on one.

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  5. oh and Nate, that part of you that feels a little sorry for the guy, you need to let that go, he’s a monster and does not deserve anyones pity. he molested 5 of his sisters, ages 11 to 5. then he has the gall to go around preaching family values and anti-gay message.

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  6. Well…I don’t want to blame the religion or sexual repression. He knew it was wrong – not because it was sexual, but because he wasn’t getting their consent. As your chart implies – any sex is morally acceptable as long as all participants are for it. He molested them *while they slept* (or pretended to be for fear of being involved or whatever) precisely because he knew he wouldn’t get their consent. Or maybe he didn’t want it. Maybe he wanted the taboo. Either way, it was wrong. Would it have been different if the family hadn’t been so sexually repressive? Absolutely. Exactly how different, we’ll never know.

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  7. SPG,

    I am so sad that your brother did that to you and for so long! I am truly, truly sorry. I really have thought a lot about the four sisters and the family friend Josh Duggar abused. Are they getting help? Does anyone around them even care?

    Nate, I think much of the Duggar training through Bill Gothard (I have known homeschoolers who followed his curriculum since 1990.) And the Independent Baptist Church is what has contributed to their poor mindset. Both are known for abuses. Their denomination has also been known to have pregnant teenagers stand in front of the Church to repent and apologize to the whole congregation for their obvious “sin”… Even the ones pregnant by a grown man sitting quietly in that Church.

    The Duggar mother also believes that she is to NEVER turn down her husband when he wants sex. No matter how sick or tired she is she’s to put out and has told her daughters to do the same as they became wives.

    I don’t agree with you about Christian families approaching sex in a healthy fashion at all! I really don’t agree with you. Most Christian parents don’t talk shit about sex and IF they do, it’s simply “don’t do it!” I think abstinence is more damaging than good. “Sex bad outside of marriage, sex good in marriage, but baby born in marriage is still born into sin.” (Yes, picture this in caveman talk.) Christianity, God, Church and religion have all taken something beautiful, fun, pleasurable and healthy into something full of rules, laws and restrictions. There’s nothing commendable about that. I can’t begin to tell you how distorted it was for me to want it just a couple of weeks before I got married at 31, but didn’t because it was sin. However, it was godly on my wedding day and I couldn’t make it work right because I was always told it was a sin until I married. Sorry, just haven’t known too many Christians who have been open and loving in teaching their children about sex.

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  8. I found it interesting that “Jim Bob” brought the boy to State Trooper Jim Hutchens, who, “gave Josh a ‘stern talk’” Hutchens was later arrested and convicted on unrelated charges of child pornography and is serving a 56-year prison sentence.

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  9. I also found it interesting that Dugger only touched and fondled the children, all but one of which while sleeping. Until now, I had read nothing of the story, and has just assumed the issue was rape or at least intercourse, whether consensual or not. Interesting also, I did not see the ages of the girls mentioned, but as the one fondled while awake claimed he had fondled her breasts, that would hardly indicate that she was prepubescent. Since Dugger was only 14 himself, there may not have been much of an age difference – I had envisioned a much older boy taking advantage of much younger girls.

    Frankly, I see a young boy, just getting his sexual organs and raging hormones, trapped in an environment where information regarding sex is not only absent, but discouraged and likely punished. He was trying to satisfy his curiosity, which is a perfectly normal desire for a boy his age, and the reason that many children “play doctor.” That he chose to do so in ways that we, in this society, believe inappropriate, is more the fault of the Duggers than of the boy – imo.

    Before anyone takes offense at my phrase, “in this society,” different societies subscribe to different mores. In the 19th century, for example, fathers among the Trobriand Islanders had sex with their own daughters. The relationship between sex and childbirth was unknown to them, they believed that their god planted babies in the stomachs of women, therefore, there WERE no actual fathers, meaning that the only direct lineage was between mother and child. In our society, sex with one’s offspring is wrong – in theirs, it was unknown.

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  10. Hi Nate, I read your post before I went to the gym this morning, and pondered it while I battered my body into submission. I have barely heard of Josh Duggar (there are some advantages in living in the antipodes!) but for maybe a year now we have been hearing from a Royal Commission (a high level public judicial enquiry) into institutionalised child sexual abuse, and the revelations have been horrific.

    Undoubtedly the organisation most in the spotlight has been the Catholic Church, but school teachers, scout leaders, sporting coaches and social welfare organisations both governmental and charity have all been people & places where abuse happened. And this is only institutional sexual abuse – domestic violence and familiar abuse is another thing again. So I feel that there must be many causes.

    Some say compulsory celibacy in the Catholic Church is a significant cause – I haven’t seen any expert opinion on that but I can’t imagine it has helped.

    I think a major factor has been the sexualisation of our culture. Porn is way more readily available than when I was young, movies, magazines and advertising use sex to sell. And children are physically maturing earlier because of better diets (I think) and they are being sexualised younger. In Australia we have an organisation named Collective Shout which aims at reducing the objectification of women and the sexualisation of children by drawing attention to sex-based advertising, images and messages that are aimed at kids – who are not mature enough for it.

    The point you raised about consent is another critical issue. Sex without consent is a form of violence, only the results can sometimes be better hidden. And we live in a culture where violence is also accepted and sometimes even glorified, whether it be in overseas military campaigns which both our countries are prone to, gun ownership and the culture behind it, violent movies and video games, and playground bullying.

    Put all that together and you get immature teens not well equipped to deal with sexualisation in a culture where personal satisfaction is the aim and force is more acceptable that it should be, and we have a problem. And it is in that context that the issue you raise – old-fashioned and conservative upbringing that leaves kids totally unprepared and ill-equipped to face all this – becomes worse.

    LIke you and other commenters, I don’t think any of this can condone evil predatory behaviour, and I don’t know anything about the situation you have discussed to comment on it. But I do think we are making it harder for normal people and easier for those who have a mind to perpetrate this kind of evil.

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  11. Christianity assures Duggar that when he repents, all sins are forgiven.

    That means he can do anything up to the point of repentance, and there is no culpable sin; because he is among the graced of god.

    The sickness is in the religion.

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  12. Paul,

    I am so, so sorry that happened to you and it was NOT your fault. I don’t blame you one bit for distancing yourself from the family who was supposed to protect and love you.

    You have said many of the things I’ve been reading on Homeschoolers Anonymous blogs for the last few years – many of those now-grown children (brought up in patriarchal, legalistic ‘christian’ homes) are speaking out about their experiences. The hypocrisy is staggering, and especially so in the Duggar case.

    I have read many reaction to this case and there’s one (rather lengthy, but worth the read) that seems to clarify the situation comprehensively. Some of you may be familiar with it already.

    http://fiddlrts.blogspot.ca/2015/05/the-duggars-how-fundamentalisms.html

    He’s had to write a follow-up post to this one, as he got so many hits on his piece. It’s worth noting that there’s a difference between explanations and excuses. Fundamentalist christian upbringing is an explanation, never an excuse.

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  13. I haven’t read all the comments and dont know all the details of the story either, but i agree with Arch. I mean, I think there’s a problem of course, and I have no doubt that their strict religion was a factor (I would not say cause).

    But if he did this around 14 and 15 and never since, and if it was just touching, then this isnt as bad as it could have been. I’m not minimizing it, but i am not foaming at the mouth crying for blood either.

    i feel bad for every one of them. The girls especially, but the boy and the parents as well. the parents, while i believe they are wrong, are doing what they think is right. they love their son, and who can blame them, and trust in their god to help all people through tough times and temptation. I think they’re ignorant and naive, but I also think they’re sincere.

    I hope their kids are finally getting, if they havent already, some professional guidance or help, and I hope everyone will be okay.

    Now, I happen to agree with our society’s views on such things, but also remember that long ago certain societies, like the greeks, viewed this sort of thing much differently. Sex with children was as frowned upon. christians will point to this as evidence for their bible, saying we need divine guidance. It could be argued that consenting adults should be able to do what they want, but beyond that, no way… but we arbitrarily assign ages to define “adult” and consent can be sticky if alcohol or drugs are involved.

    is there an objective way to absolutely and definitively define this stuff? again, let me reiterate, In no way do i believe Josh Duggar didnt do anything wrong – he did, but i do wonder if some are coming down too hard on an adult for something he did when he was a boy – buT i dont know all the circumstances.

    this, so far, seems different that adult priests wanking little boys.

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  14. That means he can do anything up to the point of repentance, and there is no culpable sin; because he is among the graced of god.” – Though more responsible for the establishment of Christianity perhaps, than even Jesus, Emperor Constantine waited until near the end of his life to become Christian – he knew he had a lot of murdering to do if he wanted to stay in power, and wanted to wait until he had most of that out of the way.

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  15. victoria, I’ll get to it… though this is a subject I don’t really care for. i probably shouldn’t have commented at all – it’s really pretty depressing.

    if it highlights anything worse, i dont think i want to know.

    “tragic” is the word that keeps coming to mind regarding this.

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  16. From Carmen’s linked article

    “So is Josh Duggar a predator and a danger to children? Maybe. But maybe not. Did he engage in sexual assault? Absolutely. Would he be a risk to do it again? Not necessarily.

    Did the poisonous doctrines believed and promoted by his family contribute to the problem? I believe that they absolutely did.”

    I agree with this. I do believe the strict religious teachings were a factor, but i wont go as far to say cause, because if it were a cause, it seems like the majority of those raised this way would do these types of things – hopefully that’s not the case. But i do think it’s a factor – there is no doubt in my mind.

    victoria, what specifically were you wanting me to see?

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  17. I’m making rhubarb crisp right now but I’ll check it out when I get a minute. . . and yes, I’m always cooking. . because people are always eating! 😉

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  18. Hi Charity,

    Thanks for the comment. I want to quickly clarify my comment about Christianity. In fundamentalist circles, I agree that dangerous teachings about sexuality seem to be the norm. But in more progressive (or at least what you and I would call “more progressive”) circles, I don’t think it’s quite as bad. I personally know some families who teach a healthier view of sexuality to their kids. Some of them are even in favor of gay rights.

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  19. The legal age of consent in the state of Arkansas (and the entire country of Mexico, as well) is 14 – girls too young to get a driver’s license are considered mature enough to choose to have sex with adults.

    As for divine guidance, Muslims consider the Q’uran to be as “Holy” as the Bible, yet Mohammed’s wife, Aisha, was 9. There is a movement in Egypt to lower the legal age of consent there to 9 as well.

    One can hardly get closer to “divine guidance” than the Pope. Lucrezia Borgia was born on April 18, 1480, the daughter of Cardinal Rodrigo Borgia (c. 1431–1503), later to become Pope Alexander VI, and his mistress Vannozza Cattanei, who was also the mother of Lucrezia’s two older brothers, Cesare and Giovanni.

    Her father, The Father, first married her off at the age of 11, to solidify a political alliance.

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  20. i wont go as far to say cause, because if it were a cause, it seems like the majority of those raised this way would do these types of things” – How do you know they don’t, William? How many such occurrences go undetected (remember, the girls were sleeping)? How many such detected events go unreported?

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  21. my brother became a big wig in the church and goes around preaching anti gay shit.” – It strikes me Pauli, that it might be fun to go to where he preaches and expose him, but far be it from me to suggest that you do that —

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  22. “How do you know they don’t, William? How many such occurrences go undetected (remember, the girls were sleeping)? How many such detected events go unreported?” – Arch

    yeah, I know… I have no idea. it’s really pretty distressing and i dont like to think about it.

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  23. it’s really pretty distressing and i dont like to think about it.

    C’mon, William – say it isn’t so —

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  24. I know exactly where you are coming from, William. No one wants to hear about horrible things that have happened to others. Problem is, that attitude is not healthy for victims. They need to be able to tell their stories – no matter how uncomfortable it is for others – so that we can say, “I hear you, the people who did that to you were wrong – they knew better and did those things anyway- I care about you and I weep for you”.

    In the Duggar case, and in Paul’s case, it’s even more heinous to think that the people who committed those indecent acts are walking among us with an air of moral superiority and those they wronged are the ones carrying the shame. It’s totally messed up and it makes me furious.

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  25. In the Duggar case, and in Paul’s case, it’s even more heinous to think that the people who committed those indecent acts are walking among us with an air of moral superiority and those they wronged are the ones carrying the shame. It’s totally messed up and it makes me furious.

    Yeah, I’d have to agree that the hypocrisy is one of the worst parts of this. That their family continued to say horrible things about the LGBT community and others while already knowing what happened within their own family is pretty sickening.

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  26. true, carmen. I just dont know the duggars. I dont want to know the bad stuff of people I dont know and can do nothing for.

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  27. “Yeah, I’d have to agree that the hypocrisy is one of the worst parts of this. That their family continued to say horrible things about the LGBT community and others while already knowing what happened within their own family is pretty sickening.” – nate

    I agree, but their self-righteousness is somewhere between thinking that they try harder than “worldly people” and that because of their faith and effort, god basically elevates them. it’s still bad, dont get me wrong, but i think to them that they know they have sin, and will sin, it’s just that they acknowledge that (even if in only a vague way) and confess they because of that, they need to rely on god and jesus.

    it’s asinine and still hypocrisy, I just dont think it originates because they think they have no sin – even if they sometime act that way.

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  28. Oh, I agree that they acknowledge (at least privately) that they have sin, but they seem to want one set of rules that only applies to them and another set that applies to everyone else. Their son did something horrible, but they still love their son (as they should) — so they wanted to deal with it in a nuanced and compassionate way. It’s their inability to see that other individuals might merit the same thing that’s so sad.

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  29. I agree with so many of the comments here and your blog Nate. And as for the person who said something about him only being 14. I was thinking the same thing, as long as he had not done anything since then, however it would be different if he were going around being open about what happened and trying to help others while preaching against it (and maybe he will now that it has come out) but instead it has been a secret while speaking out against homosexuality and other sexual sin and while he and his siblings are portrayed as not even kissing anyone until marriage.

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  30. LOL……You have to love the rubber stampers reasoning here. Nate baits the hook and they all bite (in fairness – he wrote it because he knew they would)

    Never mind the fact that as Christian values decrease in a society such things tend to escalate (certainly in the case of the US). Nate has a case to sell against all facts that Religion causes sexual deviancy. (and oh joy he calls for the resident neuro expert who has no expertise to back him up)

    see Christian family here?….see molester in family? clearly they two are connected (correlation not equaling causation be damned).

    So what actually happened? after the sexual revolution of the 60s where sex and free love became more acceptable if Nate is right then we should see a fall off in sexual crimes in the stats ? Oops instead we see an increase.

    But more interesting is the “logic”-

    SO ahem….. the next time we see a homosexual molesting a young boy may we infer a link and even causation between homosexuality and molestation?

    Inquiring minds want to know how pliable the the rubber stamper logic is. Plus it will make great popcorn eating and soda drinking entertainment as well to see the great trampoline gymnastics to bend the logic away from a conclusion that Nate and stampers would never want to make.

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  31. Nate, back when I traded stocks, some of the message boards had an “Ignore” feature that, for the user, simply blotted out the comments of undesirables, without actually banning the commenter from the board. Does WP have such a feature, and if so, could you install it?

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  32. Mike, why don’t you ask your therapist if there’s a relationship between repression and deviant behavior?

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  33. “Mike, why don’t you ask your therapist if there’s a relationship between repression and deviant behavior?”

    I would be he told me you had the whole month booked solid….lol

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  34. Oh Momma archie has links

    Never mind everyone on the internets has those

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1320864/posts

    Using the logic here homosexuality is caused by early child abuse. Say it aint so.

    http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/05/05/education-dept-sees-increase-in-campus-sex-crime-reporting

    Sex crimes are on the increase in colleges most of which are secular and even anti Religion….Hmmm maybe its the teaching of darwinism….yeah yeah thats it….applying the rubber stampers ummm “logic”

    lol…….

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  35. ablacksmanagain, you’re a total asshole. as a Christian you are a real piece of shit.

    (nate don’t delete this, you’re searching for the truth and there is nothing more truthful than what I just wrote.)

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  36. and for those who are thinking, well he was just a 14 yr old boy and there was no actual intercourse, try imagining a 14yr old boy fingering your 6yr old daughter.

    he did it to 5 girls under the age of 11. josh duggar was and still is a sexual predator, he should not be alone with any child.

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  37. so, according to most of Christian television, Christian persecution is coming soon to America, in my opinion I can’t happen soon enough. i’ talking about good old fashioned biblical persecution.

    I want those like ablacksmanagain to feel the real Christian experience, throw him in a pit of crocodiles for my amusement.

    thank you jeezzzuuusssss.

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  38. oh, and don’t get mad at me for saying that,
    it’s god’s plan, not mine. says so in the buybull.
    jeezzzuuusss said his followers would be persecuted in his name
    and the last thing I want to do is to make jeezzzuuusss out to be a liar.
    thy will be done.

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  39. ROFL…Why would I be angry at you Paulie?? Dude you are my FAVORITE poster by far 🙂

    I’ve read your screeching before and I love you man (not in that way though). You and your posts are my surest proofs Nate cares nothing too much for civility as long as its antichristian. As the Human Torch would say

    Flame on……lol…Your the man

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  40. Using the logic here homosexuality is caused by early child abuse. Say it aint so.” – Is it safe to assume from that question (since the subject of the article was religion and sexual deviancy), that you consider homosexual activity a “deviant” behavior?

    Sex crimes are on the increase in colleges most of which are secular and even anti Religion….Hmmm maybe its the teaching of darwinism….” – The US is a country presently comprised of roughly 80% Christians – when it a nation comprised of 80% Darwinists, which should be around 2100, get back to me on that.

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  41. Paulie, I want to clarify that I don’t think any if us are trying to defend what he did and I would not trust him alone with my child. I am also do sorry for what you went through but I do think a 14 year old doing that to their siblings, whatever it was he did because I have heard different things, and a 24 or 34 year old doing it has some key differences.

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  42. “The US is a country presently comprised of roughly 80% Christians – when it a nation comprised of 80% Darwinists, which should be around 2100, get back to me on that.”

    Alas One day you MIGHT make a good point but apparently its not coming today….unfortunately for your argument 80% of those “Christians” are sexually active so the only way to now save Nate and your own point is to do the very gymnastics you are known for and I predicted.How?

    You can always twist yourself into a pretzel and argue that people who regularly are engaged in sexual activity are in fact sexually repressed………………lol

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  43. …unfortunately for your argument 80% of those ‘Christians’ are sexually active” – appropos of – what?

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  44. Nate,

    Sorry that I didn’t see your reply until just now. Yesterday was my youngest’s Birthday and I missed your response. I am also sorry if I sounded as though I was attacking you.

    I believe that Josh needs to be held accountable for his actions. I don’t know how or what exactly. However, I believe that his parents should take a lot more responsibility for his actions and their dormant attitude in dealing with him and getting help for their daughters than what they have. I guess what the non religious (self included) want to hear is “our parenting skills suck and we are so sorry that we first and foremost, horribly let all of our children down.” We know that we will never hear such a statement though.

    I live in a rural county in west Tennessee, I have yet to run into any progressive Christians. More than half the population here is Baptist. I honestly do not know of any religious families that teach sex education to their children. A few years ago I deconverted and I had a brief discussion with another soccer mom about sex ed. I don’t even know how it happened, but she started ranting about local public schools possibly teaching kids about sex and homosexuality. Not wanting to out myself as an atheist (at that time), I calmly said “If the parents won’t talk to their kids about sex. Who will?” She immediately split and didn’t talk to me for a few months after that. This is normal behavior for my area regarding such a taboo topic. That’s if it’s even mentioned at all. Folks around here act as though we live in a sexless world. I guess that’s why I’m having a hard time with your “healthy view” comment about Christians teaching their kids about sex. To me, abstinence should be an option, not EVERYTHING regarding sex and that’s all I have ever known personally from my experiences and from those around me now. Many parents around here do not even discuss predators with their children because they “don’t want to rob them of their innocence”.

    I also cringe when I hear parents mentioning “the talk” regarding their children. Often their kids are pre-teens and early teens and they have yet to have the conversation with them. I am a firm believer in sex being an on going conversation, not just one awkward talk that may or may not happen. I began to talk about such things to my boys between potty training and preschool. They refer to their privates as penis, dick, pee pee, ass, butt, butt hole. To me, it was essential to teach them slang, medical, biological and curse words to describe their body so that some disgusting person doesn’t try to invade their body by using words that are unfamiliar to them. I even tell them about not letting other kids, teens and adults touch them in those areas. I also let them know it’s okay to stay the hell away from someone if he or she gives them the creeps.

    The Duggars suck as parents, there should be some sort of punishment for them, there really should be. It’s no wonder that the girls have that dry and distant look in their eyes, they have checked out of this world as a defense mechanism. And let’s be real here, all these self righteous religious people supporting the parents and Josh would lose their shit if the Duggars were black. Suddenly, their parenting would be under a big ass microscope and CPS would take the remaining children away from them. This also makes me seriously question laws in Arkansas..three years, really? Three years is the statute of limitations for sexual abuse? We must remember he didn’t do this once, he did this repeatedly to four of his sisters and a friend that the Duggars baby sat (because, what the hell, there’s just not enough kids around). He was sneaky by doing this at night time, every time. He went out of his way to go into the girls’ bedrooms. And to think that those little girls remained across the hall from him for years to come. Could you imagine what went through their poor little heads?

    Most of my anger is honestly directed towards the parents. They failed and they failed repeatedly. They’re not going to be held accountable for an enormous fail. They will not change their religion or even their backward denomination and they will continue on with their Bill Gothard homeschooling. This all infuriates me. I know that such things contribute to their blindness. I guess I’m so upset because I easily could have been like the mom. And that scares me. That scares me that we can be so blinded by faith and or doctrine that we mentally and emotionally checkout as human beings and parents. That we can put Jesus on such a high pedastool that everything else in our lives, including our precious children, fall by the wayside. After all, “it’s Jesus, all for Jesus!”

    Okay, I’m going to calm the hell down now.

    I wish you and all your readers well, Nate. Have a great weekend everybody!

    C

    Liked by 1 person

  45. ““…unfortunately for your argument 80% of those ‘Christians’ are sexually active” – appropos of – what?”

    LOL……of them not being sexually repressed Mr Clueless in Wherever . You know your and Nate’s argument.

    Take your memory pills.

    and I’ve been feeling sorry for you for a long time but…..you probably forgot.

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  46. So you’re saying that because they’re having sex, that doesn’t mean they’re sexually repressed? And you call ME Mr Clueless? Don’t make me spew coffee on the keyboard!

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  47. “So you’re saying that because they’re having sex, that doesn’t mean they’re sexually repressed? And you call ME Mr Clueless? Don’t make me spew coffee on the keyboard!”

    Why don’t you stop being the definition of a nitwit for once and go do some research for a change. Its not merely because they are having sex. Its their moral outlook on sex. 80% of the population saying they are Christians does not translate to 80% adherence to Christian beliefs on sex. IF you think that 80% of the US population is sexually repressed then that fall you took to your head as baby was even worse than I thought .

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  48. So you’re saying that being Christian doesn’t necessarily equate to behaving in a Christian manner – some organization, you have there —

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  49. “I honestly do not know of any religious families that teach sex education to their children.”

    Oh please then you know nothing. Almost all the Christian families I know discuss sex with their children. Shucks a lot of churches have training on it where teens etc can ask any question they wish. If you are expecting them to hand out condoms and show them how to put them on thats another matter

    As for “the talk”. I take it you are a parent of young children with zero experience since your cringe indicates you don’t even know what it refers to. “The talk” is rarely ever just a talk. All the parents I know expect and answer questions. “The talk” only refers to when parents initiate the conversation and relates to how they initiate it. Everyone I know continues to have ongoing dialogue on the issue.

    The facts are not one of you know why this (at the time) kid did what he did. You don’t now what influenced him. this is just fodder to satisfy Nate’s longing to bash conservative Christianity and have you rubber stamp whatever he says is connected (major purpose for the blog after all) . You don’t know whether this kid was sneaking access to the Internet,had friends that inadvertently exposed him to something or seen something on TV or the movies somewhere. Shucks he might even have been molested himself outside the family and hasn’t admitted it.

    People with an agenda do this kind of stupid correlation to causation argument. None of you will touch my challenge of how you will skirt the idea of tying molestation of young boys to homosexuality when a homosexual is involved in molestation. using your silly (but convenient to your bias) correlation equals causation logic you know it will blow up in your face.

    I give it to Nate for consistency though. He will hack a passage and say it says what it nowhere says and he will hack some poor family and their victims for his own agenda with zero considerations to the family and post on the internet that its their fault with no close knowledge of the details of the situation.

    NO points awarded for decency or fair play but got to give points for consistency. Hackery all around.

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  50. “So you’re saying that being Christian doesn’t necessarily equate to behaving in a Christian manner – some organization, you have there —’

    See a doctor about the Brain tumor poor arch. I have no organization and People saying they are Christian doesn’t equal an organization

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  51. An interesting thing about Mike, is that the more wrong he is, the more vitriol and mouth-foam he produces.

    Liked by 1 person

  52. “An interesting thing about Mike, is that the more wrong he is, the more vitriol and mouth-foam he produces.”

    The interesting thing about Arch is he relies mostly on rhetoric when he cannot answer a point hence why he uses it almost exclusively when dealing with me.

    P.S. Hows the ignoring me you said you were going to do from two weeks ago working out for you? 😉

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  53. ablacksmanagain, I don’t represent the views of the others.

    when I said “don’t get mad” I wasn’t referring to you, I don’t care if you get mad. I would rather beat you like they beat your savior and when I’m done with that you would wash my feet with your hair and bitter tears.

    you are the perfect example what is wrong with Christianity today. total hateful assholes pretending to represent jeezzuuussss.

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  54. …you are the perfect example what is wrong with Christianity today” – Well, that and the whole magic thing —

    Liked by 1 person

  55. Someone raised a very valid question on another blog – a vlog, actually – if Josh Duggar was only 14, how is it his records were released in the first place? Those are sealed to protect youthful offenders from being punished for the rest of their lives for an error in judgement they made when their minds weren’t yet fully developed.

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  56. “The interesting thing about Arch is he relies mostly on rhetoric when he cannot answer a point hence why he uses it almost exclusively when dealing with me.

    P.S. Hows the ignoring me you said you were going to do from two weeks ago working out for you? ;)” – ABlacksmanagain

    irony

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  57. “See a doctor about the Brain tumor poor arch. I have no organization and People saying they are Christian doesn’t equal an organization” – ABlacksmanagain

    do you associate with a particular church or denomination?

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  58. Mike,

    I actually kind of agree with some points you made here:

    ABlacksmanagain
    May 31, 2015 at 9:34 am

    there’s a lot we dont know about it.

    I disagree with your implication that nate was trying to skew anything or however you’d like to phrase it.

    nate grew up in a religious house, so I suppose he is in some degree relating his theory (as he never said “THIS IS THE FACT THAT LED JOSH TO TOUCH HIS SISTERS”) through personal experience and to a larger degree on what he’s seen of others who grew up strictly, etc. I mean, one thing we dont have to speculate on is the duggar’s religious upbringing.

    is that a factor? I think it can be. do you think it has nothing at all to do with it?

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  59. I wondered if you’d write about this situation Nate, and I am glad you did. My instincts are far less sympathetic that yours, but I can understand how you get there.

    Fundamentalist strains of Christianity are often a breeding ground where sexual deviancy thrives. Add to that arrogant parents who see nothing wrong with exploiting all of their children for money, a political agenda, and fame, and you have a recipe for disaster.

    Josh is a criminal, but he’s also a doomed one: with no healthy outlet for his thoughts and feelings, he acted as one prone to pedofilia would.

    ….and then his victims were told it was their fault (they weren’t modest enough, and women are a Sin by Definition), *they* are to blame, and *they* must forgive him. Now the victims are in the awful position of having to publicly rally around their brother and parents, who the love, in defense of attacks they suffered.

    The Fox News interview should be rich. There’s no defending this. Jim Bob and Michelle created a monster and provided him with a steady stream of victims. The whole situation is further confirmation for me that leaving that world was the right decision.

    Liked by 1 person

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