By this time, practically everyone has heard about the child molestation scandal surrounding Josh Duggar of 19 Kids & Counting fame. For those of you not as familiar with the story, the bare bones are these: Josh Duggar, who is now 27 years old, married, and the father 3 kids, molested 5 young girls (most of whom were his sisters) when he was 14 and 15. His parents found out and dealt with the matter privately. Actually, the way they handled it makes for quite a story in itself, and I recommend reading up on it. If it were fiction, it would be hard to believe.
Today, I read another article that showed where Josh’s dad, Jim Bob Duggar (yes, that’s his real name), said back in 2002 that incest and rape should be capital offenses. The irony’s pretty thick.
It goes without saying that this is a tragic story, especially for the young girls that were involved. And if you follow social media at all, you’ve probably seen some of the examples of schadenfreude that we sometimes feel toward people like Josh Duggar when they’re brought low.
At the same time, part of me feels a little sorry for this guy, because I can’t help but wonder if his upbringing didn’t have something to do with what happened. We’re not just talking about any old Christian household here. While I’m not a Christian and write against Christianity regularly, there are a number of Christian families who are able to convey a pretty healthy view of sex to their kids. The Duggar family is something else entirely. They adhere to a form of ultra-conservatism that is hard for most of us to identify with.
There’s a really great article about Duggar at Jezebel.com that’s definitely worth reading. In it, the author uses a chart that she got from an article by Libby Anne, who blogs at Patheos. I think this chart is brilliant and explains so much:
Josh Duggar, at ages 14 and 15, grew up in a home where any kind of sexual expression that wasn’t within the bounds of marriage was considered sin. As the chart shows, consent was not a major part of what constituted “allowable” sex. TV was restricted, their internet service was filtered, and there was no physical contact or kissing with the people these kids dated (source). I imagine that they also viewed masturbation as sinful. While someone like Victoria (NeuroNotes) has likely done much more research on this kind of thing than I have, I can easily see where this kind of sexual repression could lead a kid like Josh Duggar to make these kinds of mistakes. When things like rape and murder share the same label (“sin”) as things like masturbation and lust, then for some people, the lines become blurry. If a person is already in trouble with God for one sin, what real difference does it make if they go ahead and engage in another? He would have known that certain magazines, TV channels, and websites were all reliable sources of pornography but would have had no way to access any of them. I can see where that kind of frustration and repression could turn into a dangerous obsession.
I’m certainly not defending him or what he did. And plenty of people have grown up in households that had the same restrictive view of sex without resorting to molestation. But I still wonder if things might have played out differently had he been raised with a healthier view of sexuality.
Finding Truth 
Seems I’ve heard a similar response before – oh, yeah:
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“Using the logic here homosexuality is caused by early child abuse. Say it aint so.” – Is it safe to assume from that question (since the subject of the article was religion and sexual deviancy), that you consider homosexual activity a “deviant” behavior?
“Sex crimes are on the increase in colleges most of which are secular and even anti Religion….Hmmm maybe its the teaching of darwinism….” – The US is a country presently comprised of roughly 80% Christians – when it a nation comprised of 80% Darwinists, which should be around 2100, get back to me on that.
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Pauli, I suspect that Nate wishes he had the freedom to say it himself –
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Paulie, I want to clarify that I don’t think any if us are trying to defend what he did and I would not trust him alone with my child. I am also do sorry for what you went through but I do think a 14 year old doing that to their siblings, whatever it was he did because I have heard different things, and a 24 or 34 year old doing it has some key differences.
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“The US is a country presently comprised of roughly 80% Christians – when it a nation comprised of 80% Darwinists, which should be around 2100, get back to me on that.”
Alas One day you MIGHT make a good point but apparently its not coming today….unfortunately for your argument 80% of those “Christians” are sexually active so the only way to now save Nate and your own point is to do the very gymnastics you are known for and I predicted.How?
You can always twist yourself into a pretzel and argue that people who regularly are engaged in sexual activity are in fact sexually repressed………………lol
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“…unfortunately for your argument 80% of those ‘Christians’ are sexually active” – appropos of – what?
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I’m actually starting to feel sorry for you.
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Nate,
Sorry that I didn’t see your reply until just now. Yesterday was my youngest’s Birthday and I missed your response. I am also sorry if I sounded as though I was attacking you.
I believe that Josh needs to be held accountable for his actions. I don’t know how or what exactly. However, I believe that his parents should take a lot more responsibility for his actions and their dormant attitude in dealing with him and getting help for their daughters than what they have. I guess what the non religious (self included) want to hear is “our parenting skills suck and we are so sorry that we first and foremost, horribly let all of our children down.” We know that we will never hear such a statement though.
I live in a rural county in west Tennessee, I have yet to run into any progressive Christians. More than half the population here is Baptist. I honestly do not know of any religious families that teach sex education to their children. A few years ago I deconverted and I had a brief discussion with another soccer mom about sex ed. I don’t even know how it happened, but she started ranting about local public schools possibly teaching kids about sex and homosexuality. Not wanting to out myself as an atheist (at that time), I calmly said “If the parents won’t talk to their kids about sex. Who will?” She immediately split and didn’t talk to me for a few months after that. This is normal behavior for my area regarding such a taboo topic. That’s if it’s even mentioned at all. Folks around here act as though we live in a sexless world. I guess that’s why I’m having a hard time with your “healthy view” comment about Christians teaching their kids about sex. To me, abstinence should be an option, not EVERYTHING regarding sex and that’s all I have ever known personally from my experiences and from those around me now. Many parents around here do not even discuss predators with their children because they “don’t want to rob them of their innocence”.
I also cringe when I hear parents mentioning “the talk” regarding their children. Often their kids are pre-teens and early teens and they have yet to have the conversation with them. I am a firm believer in sex being an on going conversation, not just one awkward talk that may or may not happen. I began to talk about such things to my boys between potty training and preschool. They refer to their privates as penis, dick, pee pee, ass, butt, butt hole. To me, it was essential to teach them slang, medical, biological and curse words to describe their body so that some disgusting person doesn’t try to invade their body by using words that are unfamiliar to them. I even tell them about not letting other kids, teens and adults touch them in those areas. I also let them know it’s okay to stay the hell away from someone if he or she gives them the creeps.
The Duggars suck as parents, there should be some sort of punishment for them, there really should be. It’s no wonder that the girls have that dry and distant look in their eyes, they have checked out of this world as a defense mechanism. And let’s be real here, all these self righteous religious people supporting the parents and Josh would lose their shit if the Duggars were black. Suddenly, their parenting would be under a big ass microscope and CPS would take the remaining children away from them. This also makes me seriously question laws in Arkansas..three years, really? Three years is the statute of limitations for sexual abuse? We must remember he didn’t do this once, he did this repeatedly to four of his sisters and a friend that the Duggars baby sat (because, what the hell, there’s just not enough kids around). He was sneaky by doing this at night time, every time. He went out of his way to go into the girls’ bedrooms. And to think that those little girls remained across the hall from him for years to come. Could you imagine what went through their poor little heads?
Most of my anger is honestly directed towards the parents. They failed and they failed repeatedly. They’re not going to be held accountable for an enormous fail. They will not change their religion or even their backward denomination and they will continue on with their Bill Gothard homeschooling. This all infuriates me. I know that such things contribute to their blindness. I guess I’m so upset because I easily could have been like the mom. And that scares me. That scares me that we can be so blinded by faith and or doctrine that we mentally and emotionally checkout as human beings and parents. That we can put Jesus on such a high pedastool that everything else in our lives, including our precious children, fall by the wayside. After all, “it’s Jesus, all for Jesus!”
Okay, I’m going to calm the hell down now.
I wish you and all your readers well, Nate. Have a great weekend everybody!
C
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““…unfortunately for your argument 80% of those ‘Christians’ are sexually active” – appropos of – what?”
LOL……of them not being sexually repressed Mr Clueless in Wherever . You know your and Nate’s argument.
Take your memory pills.
and I’ve been feeling sorry for you for a long time but…..you probably forgot.
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So you’re saying that because they’re having sex, that doesn’t mean they’re sexually repressed? And you call ME Mr Clueless? Don’t make me spew coffee on the keyboard!
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“So you’re saying that because they’re having sex, that doesn’t mean they’re sexually repressed? And you call ME Mr Clueless? Don’t make me spew coffee on the keyboard!”
Why don’t you stop being the definition of a nitwit for once and go do some research for a change. Its not merely because they are having sex. Its their moral outlook on sex. 80% of the population saying they are Christians does not translate to 80% adherence to Christian beliefs on sex. IF you think that 80% of the US population is sexually repressed then that fall you took to your head as baby was even worse than I thought .
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So you’re saying that being Christian doesn’t necessarily equate to behaving in a Christian manner – some organization, you have there —
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“I honestly do not know of any religious families that teach sex education to their children.”
Oh please then you know nothing. Almost all the Christian families I know discuss sex with their children. Shucks a lot of churches have training on it where teens etc can ask any question they wish. If you are expecting them to hand out condoms and show them how to put them on thats another matter
As for “the talk”. I take it you are a parent of young children with zero experience since your cringe indicates you don’t even know what it refers to. “The talk” is rarely ever just a talk. All the parents I know expect and answer questions. “The talk” only refers to when parents initiate the conversation and relates to how they initiate it. Everyone I know continues to have ongoing dialogue on the issue.
The facts are not one of you know why this (at the time) kid did what he did. You don’t now what influenced him. this is just fodder to satisfy Nate’s longing to bash conservative Christianity and have you rubber stamp whatever he says is connected (major purpose for the blog after all) . You don’t know whether this kid was sneaking access to the Internet,had friends that inadvertently exposed him to something or seen something on TV or the movies somewhere. Shucks he might even have been molested himself outside the family and hasn’t admitted it.
People with an agenda do this kind of stupid correlation to causation argument. None of you will touch my challenge of how you will skirt the idea of tying molestation of young boys to homosexuality when a homosexual is involved in molestation. using your silly (but convenient to your bias) correlation equals causation logic you know it will blow up in your face.
I give it to Nate for consistency though. He will hack a passage and say it says what it nowhere says and he will hack some poor family and their victims for his own agenda with zero considerations to the family and post on the internet that its their fault with no close knowledge of the details of the situation.
NO points awarded for decency or fair play but got to give points for consistency. Hackery all around.
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“So you’re saying that being Christian doesn’t necessarily equate to behaving in a Christian manner – some organization, you have there —’
See a doctor about the Brain tumor poor arch. I have no organization and People saying they are Christian doesn’t equal an organization
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An interesting thing about Mike, is that the more wrong he is, the more vitriol and mouth-foam he produces.
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“An interesting thing about Mike, is that the more wrong he is, the more vitriol and mouth-foam he produces.”
The interesting thing about Arch is he relies mostly on rhetoric when he cannot answer a point hence why he uses it almost exclusively when dealing with me.
P.S. Hows the ignoring me you said you were going to do from two weeks ago working out for you? 😉
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ablacksmanagain, I don’t represent the views of the others.
when I said “don’t get mad” I wasn’t referring to you, I don’t care if you get mad. I would rather beat you like they beat your savior and when I’m done with that you would wash my feet with your hair and bitter tears.
you are the perfect example what is wrong with Christianity today. total hateful assholes pretending to represent jeezzuuussss.
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“…you are the perfect example what is wrong with Christianity today” – Well, that and the whole magic thing —
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Someone raised a very valid question on another blog – a vlog, actually – if Josh Duggar was only 14, how is it his records were released in the first place? Those are sealed to protect youthful offenders from being punished for the rest of their lives for an error in judgement they made when their minds weren’t yet fully developed.
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“The interesting thing about Arch is he relies mostly on rhetoric when he cannot answer a point hence why he uses it almost exclusively when dealing with me.
P.S. Hows the ignoring me you said you were going to do from two weeks ago working out for you? ;)” – ABlacksmanagain
irony
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“See a doctor about the Brain tumor poor arch. I have no organization and People saying they are Christian doesn’t equal an organization” – ABlacksmanagain
do you associate with a particular church or denomination?
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Mike,
I actually kind of agree with some points you made here:
ABlacksmanagain
May 31, 2015 at 9:34 am
there’s a lot we dont know about it.
I disagree with your implication that nate was trying to skew anything or however you’d like to phrase it.
nate grew up in a religious house, so I suppose he is in some degree relating his theory (as he never said “THIS IS THE FACT THAT LED JOSH TO TOUCH HIS SISTERS”) through personal experience and to a larger degree on what he’s seen of others who grew up strictly, etc. I mean, one thing we dont have to speculate on is the duggar’s religious upbringing.
is that a factor? I think it can be. do you think it has nothing at all to do with it?
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I know, arch, it’s all just so stupid.
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I wondered if you’d write about this situation Nate, and I am glad you did. My instincts are far less sympathetic that yours, but I can understand how you get there.
Fundamentalist strains of Christianity are often a breeding ground where sexual deviancy thrives. Add to that arrogant parents who see nothing wrong with exploiting all of their children for money, a political agenda, and fame, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Josh is a criminal, but he’s also a doomed one: with no healthy outlet for his thoughts and feelings, he acted as one prone to pedofilia would.
….and then his victims were told it was their fault (they weren’t modest enough, and women are a Sin by Definition), *they* are to blame, and *they* must forgive him. Now the victims are in the awful position of having to publicly rally around their brother and parents, who the love, in defense of attacks they suffered.
The Fox News interview should be rich. There’s no defending this. Jim Bob and Michelle created a monster and provided him with a steady stream of victims. The whole situation is further confirmation for me that leaving that world was the right decision.
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an update on the “christian” duggars. they lied during their Fox interview
http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/06/05/duggars-lied-josh-duggar-molestation-report-fox-news-interview-lies/
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