Agnosticism, Atheism, Faith, God

A Problem with Immortality

Well, sorry I’ve been away so long. Things are going well — I’ve just been busy with work and haven’t had a whole lot to say lately. But yesterday, I ran across a really interesting article that I wanted to share with all of you.

Paul Sagar, the author of the article, discusses several possible problems with the notion of immortality and asks if it’s even something we should really want. But what I found most interesting was his suggestion that our innate desire for immortality might not really be about wanting to live forever, but about being able to control when we die.

Christopher Hitchens famously said:

I do not especially like the idea that one day I shall be tapped on the shoulder and informed, not that the party is over but that it is most assuredly going on — only henceforth in my absence.

That seems to be the hard part. We worry that our time will come too soon, when there are too many things left undone — too many people still around that we want to spend time with.

But if you live long enough, it seems that there would come a time when that’s no longer the case. When most of the people you’d want to spend time with have already left the party too. Or when your body has worn out to the point that you’re just ready for that final slumber.

And perhaps just as great a fear is living too long. We all know people who have suffered with Alzheimer’s or dementia. Or those who have become physically disabled to the point that they can no longer do the simplest of tasks and remain in great pain. Death can seem like a blessing in those instances.

Of course, when people talk about immortality, they’re really talking about living forever in a perfect state — good health and access to loved ones. Would such an immortality be a good thing? I don’t really know. In the same quote, Hitchens went on to say:

Much more horrible, though, would be the announcement that the party was continuing forever, and that I was forbidden to leave. Whether it was a hellishly bad party or a party that was perfectly heavenly in every respect, the moment that it became eternal and compulsory would be the precise moment that it began to pall.

I can see his point, though this is something I go back and forth over. Maybe such an eternity wouldn’t get boring. Either way, I think most of us wish we had more time than what we typically get.

Of course, it doesn’t really matter whether we wish we had more time or not — wishing for a thing doesn’t make it so. We don’t live forever. And I don’t have any reason to believe that some part of us will continue on after death. So we’re left to focus on living the one life we do have to the fullest extent possible. Take care of those we care about; take advantage of the opportunities we’re given; make the most of each moment; live with as few regrets as possible.

Anyway, nothing I’ve said here is revolutionary or even definitive. I’ve really just been typing out my own thoughts on this. So, more importantly, take a second to read that article, if you haven’t already. I especially enjoyed the story about Bhishma, taken from Mahabharata.

104 thoughts on “A Problem with Immortality”

  1. Hi Nate! Haven’t heard from you in ages. .hope you and your family are safe at home and coping as best you can. Fond regards from Nova Scotia. .

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  2. Hi Carmen! Great to hear from you! I’m doing well — just haven’t had much to write about in a while, and I don’t always notice these comments when they come through. But I hope you’re doing well too!

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  3. All good here. We have had no new Covid cases for weeks but masks will be mandatory by the end of the month. I’m busy making them for my grandchildren and others. (I’ve already made lots!). You might not know but we’ve had the worst mass murder in Canada happen not far from us (in April) on top of all this Covid business. . .it makes one take stock. Glad you are doing ok. I worry about my blogging buddies. 🙂

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  4. I just noticed your reply in February of last year. In it the damned one running this blog (or an old “affluent white female liberal” indistinguishable from him) claimed reality is “flexible” and that reality is “unfounded” “variable” and “alterable.” To what I cannot tell. you certainly cannot even get your lives together, you can’t go minutes without damning yourselves; and in the case of carmen, trying to “normalize” her sin by pushing it onto her children and grandchildren. considering your proclivity to the worst sin That Cries To Heaven For Vengeance of Martyring The Most Innocent in effigy of God, the worst satanic ritual of all, the worst sin of all, and the worst evil of all that you call “abortion,” I can only assume most of those “grandchildren” are actually dogs and cats.

    all of you being worse than any virus. covid kills people at a rate of 0.03%. Would you like to hazard a guess as to what your rate of killing souls and babies in the womb is per attempt? Is it more than 0.03%?

    I was tired of dealing with the damned, so gave a very small message. I said:
    “If reality is relative, then your words are meaningless as no one would be able to interact.”

    This sums up everything I needed to say, but as Prophet of Execution I really need to dig and twist the knives instead of being so efficient.

    Dogma is a True Thought, based upon axioms, that allows ALL other thought to grow; of course, without Faith (Founding Oneself in God, that allows thought to exist) nothing will grow and your mind will be as barren as a liberal white woman’s womb. Sadly this blog and all the comments there in show this better than I can.

    My Dogmas are as wide as the universe and extend to Infinity. I can account for everything.

    you can’t even account for why you would want to pass mustard to one another across the dinner table without planning some mass-Martyrdom of Christians because you know you can’t account for anything.

    As far as your fixation on Scripture, Scripture is the third and smallest of The Three Forms of Supernatural Knowledge. This still the most complex topic available to man outside The Church, but you will never be able to understand it outside The Church. The First is The Magisterium, The Second is Sacred Tradition. These first two were rejected by the heresies you all grew up in (and continue to rail against due to shame over sexual sin) because you need to understand Absolute Truth to recognize Sacred Tradition, and Love to understand Magisterium.

    To understand Scripture you need to understand Natural Law, and since all outside The Church reject Natural Law, you are therefore left with a book you heavily edited to justify all perversion and evil.

    protestants are some of the most evil people to ever live, but you lot are so evil that even the protestants reject you.

    HA!

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  5. To continue here to split my message into parts (this is part 2), I got these two from youtube comments (of all places) years ago, and they answer your positions nicelty.

    Piggers71:
    “When an atheist starts in with me, I simply remind them if they are right, then they are nothing but matter that doesn’t matter and therefore neither does the noise being emitted by their random chemical reactions. After their initial dumbfounded reaction is set upon their face, I tell them that they’re irrelevant according to their own world view and I don’t have time for their meaningless fizzing and popping.”

    JP Dena:
    “Here is what you can do with your co-worker: ask her questions about atheism. Ask her what facts does she have that proves atheism i.e. no gods exist is true. Is belief in God illogical and irrational and if so how?

    Since atheism does not have such a thing as a moral code then ask her why murder and rape is evil via atheism? Where does atheism condemn slavery? Whats wrong with owning slaves if atheism is true?
    You might also tell her that if atheism is true then her life is ultimately meaningless. When she dies, she ceases to exist and it matters not what kind of life she lived because she is never held accountable for the life she lived.

    Where does atheism say that being homosexual and trans is a good thing? You should point out to her from the Center for disease Control the stats of how deadly homosexual sex is.

    What you want her to do is to defend atheism is true and show what wrong with slavery, rape and murder if atheism is true. After all, if atheism is true then its all “atoms in motion” and nothing more.

    Feel free to contact me if she has questions you can’t answer. I have dealt with a number of atheists on these issues and have never gotten good answers from them when they are challenged.”

    As I said on another article:
    “So what is it that you have gained? Nothing. you were damned before your birth (this entire message goes to everyone here), so you seeking to damn yourself further only succeeds in changing nothing but adding onto an Eternal, infinitely extending punishment for your Eternal crimes that would be infinite if you were not Mercifully (to all of us in The Church) cut short. There is no limit to that punishment, and your far greater lifetime of sin will not cover up that first small sin that made you go reprobate.

    you were allowed to be born here instead of directly in hell to give you the chance to Repent. you did not just make poor choices, you removed your possibility to make choices.

    Repent while you still can. I say this because it is a True statement (one of those “inflexible realities” and “fixed, invariable, unalterable facts” you think disbelieving in makes them go away), but also to mock the impediment you gave yourself and then God put into stone in your heart to mock you delusion of apotheosis.

    Heh. Now, THAT is Justice AND Mercy all in one.”

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  6. And for part 3.

    Now, what do the Saints (those in Heaven) say? I would think they would know something as they are Eternal. All human souls are immortal, all the people suffering in hell only face what all of you “atheists” invite upon yourselves because you have the immortality for the pain to never end.

    The worst pain is and will always be the shame of you wronging God and knowing you will never see Him again. this is why at your Particular Judgement you will be given every detail of your lives and made to not only understand them Perfectly but never be able to forget or lie about it: because that knowledge is what causes the worst pain of hell.

    This is also why at The Final Judgement ALL will be made to know everything. This will increase that infinite pain even more.

    you won’t be cursing your immortality. you will be cursing yourselves for what you have done.

    G. K. Chesterton said this of your marxian delusion “ye will be like gods”:
    “All punishment is a sort of righteous rebellion; the revolt of all men against the man who thinks he is the only man in the world. It is the whole sin of the anarch that he thinks he is alone. And we actually try to correct it by making him really alone.”

    St Charbel Makhlouf said of Mankind:
    “Guard your families and keep them from the schemes of the evil one through the presence of God in them. Protect and keep them through prayer and dialogue through mutual understanding and forgiveness, through honesty and faithfulness, and most importantly, through listening. Listen to one another with your ears, eyes, hearts, mouths and the palms of your hands, and keep the roaring of the noise of the world away from your homes because it is like raging storms and violent waves; once it enters the home, it will sweep away everything and disperse everyone. Preserve the warmth of the family, because the warmth of the whole world cannot make up for it.”

    He also said this:
    “A man who prays lives out the mystery of existence, and a man who does not pray scarcely exists.”

    Most Importantly God said this to Saint Catherine of Siena about Spiritual Warfare:
    “Do you know dearest daughter, how I raise the soul out of her imperfections? Sometimes I vex her with evil thoughts and a sterile mind. It will seem to her that I have left her completely, without any feeling whatever. She does not seem to be in the world, because she is in fact not there; nor does she seem to be in me because she has no feeling at all other than that her will does not want sin. I do not allow enemies to open the gate of the will that is free. I do let the devils and other enemies of humankind beat against other gates, but not against this, which is the main gate guarding the city of the soul. I do not will the soul’s death as long as she is not so stupid as to open the gate of her will. They cannot enter unless her own will chooses to let them in.”

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  7. It’s from Shakespeare, a Catholic man (not the best but he had little instruction it seems).

    What I have given you is Love, Absolute Truth and Natural Law. you reject this, like all heretics of the past, all damned ones, all evil (which is just the absence of Good caused by the rotting of a dead soul) because it refutes your agenda.

    Therefore your rejection is not because I am ineffective, but I am somehow “too effective” and so you assume some insecurity or ulterior motive. your “argument” (which isn’t an argument at all) is that you didn’t read what I said.

    your grandchildren deserve better than the hell you have given them. Period.

    Read the bloody messages.

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  8. yes, I do, you are killing souls, and I answered you in full which is why you did not read a word. I will still speak out even if it is just you being damned, but your blog author casts a wide guillotine and you harm your whole family.

    your curses are sent back to whence they came with a St Michael Prayer and St Benedict Prayer, if you try it again (EVER again, to ANYONE) they will be sent upon you automatically.

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  9. You are wasting your time with such nonsense, Nigel. Perhaps you’ll realize it someday. Like I said, have a lovely day – and chill!

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  10. your curses are returned upon you. you won’t enjoy your nihilistic banality any more than you already do. the angst of a life wasted, desperately trying to re-iterate your satanic pledge on atheist blogs before the realization of what you bought for yourself Eternity sets in.

    Remember, you are Judged first for the sins of those under you (namely children and students) beforr your own are ever Judged.

    So I am “wasting my time”… with what is beyond time?

    Love, Absolute Truth, and Natural Law are the three things that allows being at all, and they are so fundamental that God Created them based upon Himself? you call this “nonsense,” part because you cannot understand and part because it reminds you of hell where you were born to die in.

    your children were not so lucky, the ones you murdered in the womb to be a part of an unthinking “revolution” the most so.

    you think I will realize what is wrong, or do you think I will damn myself as you did? To go from where I am to you are would be impossible. My level of Grace is Highest, yours is lowest, it is why you were accepted as a loss during the devil’s century that you were born.

    I cannot be distracted by novelty as you are, I cannot be fooled by fifth rate lies of third rate liars or third rate lies of fifth rate liars.

    In the end there is only The Four Last Things: death, Judgement, Heaven or hell.

    you choose the first and fourth by emotion and weakness into inability to even read a totality of messages that would be about 2 pages double spaced in any book.

    you forsake the Second and Third because unlike “the patient” in Lewis’ “The Screwtape Letters” you are weak where he was strong.

    Like I said in the Message you did not read, and is still True all three hours later, from God to a real woman (St Catherine of Siena):
    “Do you know dearest daughter, how I raise the soul out of her imperfections? Sometimes I vex her with evil thoughts and a sterile mind. It will seem to her that I have left her completely, without any feeling whatever. She does not seem to be in the world, because she is in fact not there; nor does she seem to be in me because she has no feeling at all other than that her will does not want sin. I do not allow enemies to open the gate of the will that is free. I do let the devils and other enemies of humankind beat against other gates, but not against this, which is the main gate guarding the city of the soul. I do not will the soul’s death as long as she is not so stupid as to open the gate of her will. They cannot enter unless her own will chooses to let them in.”

    you are simply a wicked monster who will believe anything, anything at all, that you think will let you go on sinning.

    yet the years wane, your body to a neck less blob, your soul little to be found besides true death.

    you’re too close to hell at your age to be this stupid about where you’re going. Realize it, and scream in horror every moment just like your “thought-leader” neitzche did for the last decade of his life.

    Think about what you did to your babies and continue to do to your grand children (still haven’t said if they are humans or “fur baby” pets) all in the delusion it will normalize your sin if your sacrifice then to the devil in what you think is you damning them in your place.

    If there is any contempt you detect in my messages it is because you are evil. I promise I speak only “inflexible realities” and “fixed, invariable, unalterable facts“ against the unreality that is the right of your ego to exist at all.

    Does the gardener contempt weeds?

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  11. Because I am speaking directly to you, and you would not be an intellectual coward ( or including your other forms of cowardice. it also won’t let you go on sinning, which is your singular content at the total destruction of your entire family in regards to both their lives and souls.

    But once more, from God to a Real Woman:
    “Do you know dearest daughter, how I raise the soul out of her imperfections? Sometimes I vex her with evil thoughts and a sterile mind. It will seem to her that I have left her completely, without any feeling whatever. She does not seem to be in the world, because she is in fact not there; nor does she seem to be in me because she has no feeling at all other than that her will does not want sin. I do not allow enemies to open the gate of the will that is free. I do let the devils and other enemies of humankind beat against other gates, but not against this, which is the main gate guarding the city of the soul. I do not will the soul’s death as long as she is not so stupid as to open the gate of her will. They cannot enter unless her own will chooses to let them in.”

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  12. Carmen, I’m sorry I haven’t been keeping up with the comments here. I hope you and your family are still doing well!

    Nigel, for a moment, let’s assume you’re right. Let’s assume Christianity is true, that most of us on this blog are sinners in need of God’s grace and forgiveness, etc. In light of that, what’s the point of your comments? Do you think Jesus would speak to us the way you have? When you’re so vehement and indignant toward the lost, what chance is there of helping them find redemption? It seems to me you’re working against Christ more than for him, since your approach is far more likely to drive people away.

    I’m not saying that to be rude or offensive. My hope is that you can find a way to be more respectful and compassionate in the things you say, because that’s what an actual dialogue requires. Wouldn’t this be more effective if we were actually speaking to, not past, one another?

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  13. “nate,” live by the sword and die by the sword. I will wait for your false Piety being applied to yourself of your minions. Of course, Piety requires duty to God, Family, and Country; without one the ones before it go and so goes them all. this is why “athiests” are liberals, and why atheism occurs at the onset of liberalism.

    God to St Catherine Of Sienna:
    “I give spiritual consolation in prayer, now in one way, now in another. But it is not my intention that the soul should receive this consolation foolishly, paying more attention to the gift than to me.”

    CS Lewis is a blaspheming fool sometimes, I just found out he took The Lord’s Name in vain. Then again, he is a protestant from north ireland. I’m more surprised that I am so hurt by him being evil, I should have expected that from his other more widely available demonic statements.

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  14. Hi Nigel,
    I wasn’t really going for piety, false or otherwise, since I’m not religious. But I do think kindness and open-mindedness are necessary for any discussion that’s worthwhile. The internet has trained us all to be assholes, unfortunately, and I think that’s a real tragedy.

    Beliefs about religion and spirituality are very personal and very important to most of us, even those of us who are atheists. And it’s hard to find any two people who have the exact same views on the subject. So the two things we should expect when talking to someone else about religious beliefs are to disagree and to feel passionate about our positions.

    To me, it’s important to think about why two people would even bother to start up a conversation about a topic so incendiary. The only valid reasons I can think of are to learn about another’s point of view, or to persuade someone to adopt one’s own point of view. In both cases, kind, open communication seems to be the only productive approach. When things get combative, both sides shut down.

    So I find it best not to assign motives to one another. I also think that if I want to understand what Baptists believe, for instance, I’m better off listening to what Baptists have to say for themselves rather than what an atheist or a Muslim or a Presbyterian says about them. Not that I can’t listen to the other perspectives, but I would be foolish to accept their critiques about why a person is Baptist over the explanation of the Baptist himself.

    Would you agree that what I’m suggesting is a good foundation for having a discussion about our beliefs? And if so, why don’t we wipe the slate clean and start over? What aspect of our respective beliefs would you like to talk about?

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  15. “nate,” your post was an attack to try to turn a clear loss into a moral victory. your intent is the same as “carmen” here, she just has no reason to hide that she is a monster because she is very secure in it while you are not. ultimately this tactic is a protestant one you are repurposing for the more modern forms of the same evil, that you now belong to.

    Now, I don’t see the point of a man with no morality or capability to morality attempting a moral victory. I think you see a point that isn’t there, a common trait among your coven. you don’t have beliefs, you have strategies. you don’t have friends, you have people to use or manipulate. yet even with how low, base, and beast-like you seek to make yourself, you still have no foundation for even that.

    Let me repeat myself: you can’t even justify why one would act like a soundrel. you may and do and have acted like one, but you can’t explain it without refuting everything else about you. you can’t say men are beasts when men do not act like beasts, and you can’t say men are better than beasts without revealing Heaven or worse than beasts and reveal hell. you can’t say self-interest, as that would admit contingency. you can’t say desire, as in “I wanted to,” as that would admit causality. you can’t say determinism, as what deterministic process could make you think or speak?

    No, really, what’s your point? you’re a relativist so unsure in your beliefs that you have to convince the woo-woo you thought you would hide shame over sin behind to stand straight enough for you to demand others to be like you. you’re a materialist angry that the cold fizzing and popping of chemicals remind you of God who made them.

    Like how on-and-off-again Lewis would say about the devil: in a world of so much wonder, all he could do was fixate on his vices.

    I don’t know what caused you to want to come here to hand-wring today, while doing nothing about your attack dogs (that would require sincerity, which you also have no capability to). Well, maybe I already answered myself; when your kind takes away the fixation on insults and blaspheming, what else do you have but to be a moralizer like you used to be, just now without morals to do it with.

    I don’t know if I would ever want to speak to you nate, and it’s pointless to philosophize on as it has yet to happen. That isn’t because of who I am, it’s because you and everything you made yourself is completely, totally inadequate. Not that I would ever try even if I wanted to waste time doing so, considering how your kind treats their children in the womb.

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  16. So I guess you disagreed with my comment, hahaha.

    Honestly, I think your comments do way more to harm your position than help it. I just keep thinking of how I would react, even when I was a Christian, if I came upon an exchange like this.

    Anyway, I do agree that there doesn’t seem to be a point in trying to talk to one another, which is a real shame.

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  17. Oh no, Nate – I’m in awe of your comment! :). As I’ve said many times before, I admire your diplomacy. Perhaps I should have more but in all honesty, straight talk with the delusional is my best shot.

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  18. I’ve just read through the thread and see that your comment, Nate, was directed at Nigel’s attack. Monster, am I Nigel? I think not. My wonderful husband, our four children and our eight grandchildren would never use that terminology about me, I can assure you. Based on your comments, however, I can safely say you are an asshole – a sanctimonious one at that. I have no qualms about stating the truth.

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  19. The thing is, Nate, when you identify as a teapot, your worldview is a bit limited. Unless someone comes along and moves you to a different spot, your only company is the cups and saucers around you … and they take whatever is poured into them.

    Enjoy the New Year! I hope we’ll “see” more of you in 2021.

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