Since leaving Christianity, I’ve had time to reflect on why some people leave their faith when confronted with issues and why others stay. The reasons are quite varied, of course. And a large part of how people react depends upon how literally they take things in the Bible. I was raised in a very conservative version of Christianity that believed in biblical inerrancy, so much of my criticisms of Christianity come from that. As I was going through my deconversion, I studied with many friends and family, and I was surprised at how differently we ended up dealing with the various problems in scripture. Why did we have such different approaches?
When we believe in God, I think at least part of that belief comes from a position of confidence, maybe even arrogance. Why must there be a God? Well, just look at the complexity of life! And by that, we mean the complexity of humanity. After all, many people reject atheism because it means that life has no higher purpose or meaning. It’s difficult for people to accept that. We’re intelligent enough to know that we’re all going to die, and that’s not a pleasant thought. We feel that our lives have meaning (and to us, they certainly do!), so it’s hard to imagine that death could really be the end. Surely there’s a bigger point to it all! Yet most of us don’t have trouble accepting that when animals die, that’s the end. There’s no soul that lives on. Why do we accept that with animals, but not ourselves?
Beyond just a belief in God, when we hold to a particular religion, we’re employing even more confidence. We’re saying that we know who God is. We have a personal relationship with him, and we believe he has a plan for us. We believe we know what he wants to the extent that we’ll correct those who are doing it wrong. Sometimes, we believe this so wholeheartedly that we’re willing to inflict harm upon those who disagree.
At the same time, there’s a curiously low level of self-esteem among the religious. When we encounter problems in our beliefs, this lack of confidence helps allay doubt and worry by reminding us that the wisdom of God is far superior to the wisdom of man. That we should “lean not” on our own understanding.
The brand of Christianity I came out of used fear to great effect. We believed in a literal Hell, and nothing sells Heaven better than a literal Hell. You can’t afford to deeply question your beliefs if it’s going to land you in a never ending barbeque. And this is where the strange duplicity really comes in: Christianity tells you you’re important because God made you, he loves you, and he has a plan for you. At the same time, you aren’t smart enough to understand some parts of his plan, like why he would promise to destroy Tyre so that it would never be rebuilt, but then didn’t do that. Or how Jesus’ genealogy could be given 3 different ways. Or how he could die at two different times on two different days.
This fear of getting it wrong causes many of us to simply put our heads in the sand and avoid the issues. Though after reading the Parable of the Talents, it’s surprising that any Christian would pursue such a tactic. What’s most ironic is that many Christians believe that people from other religions are required to question their own beliefs so they will turn from them. But why should they expect something of others that they’re unwilling to do themselves?
Of course, not all Christians are this way. And this is something that all people can be guilty of, no matter their worldview. But this curious mix between utter confidence and cripplingly low self-esteem is definitely something that many people struggle with, and they really shouldn’t. If the God they serve really has the qualities they think he does, then they don’t have to be so afraid of asking tough questions. But we’ll talk more about God’s nature and why it should encourage honest inquiry in the next post.
Finding Truth 
Hi Josh,
Everyone has their own perspective on this, and although you addressed this to William I’d like to share my own.
There are many different descriptions of a God or “gods” that I have considered, but none of them seem to exist given both my own experience as well as the fact that the evidence for them only seems to me to rise to the level of anecdotal. My main point here is just that I have considered versions of God that include yours as well as even those you yourself have likely not thought of. I believe a lot of atheists have done this as well. Again their existence is simply doubtful to me.
Now, as far as versions go there are many that truly are loving (given the definition of loving that parents and actually all of us really understand). The God of a lot of Unitarian Universalists is a God who loves absolutely everyone in the world and does not put any limits on that love (e.g. It does not say that if you don’t realize It exists before you die then you will be cast away). It might punish people temporarily but only for their betterment (just like parents do with children). This kind of God would be an extremely wonderful surprise for me if ever in my life (or after if that kind of thing is possible) I came to believe it existed. I have no reason to reject a God like that – I just don’t think it exists. From our last discussion I got the feeling you were leaning toward belief in this kind of God, but I don’t think you’ve gotten there.
I think the God of your belief does cast some of it’s creation away into a sad place forever. This is an unkind and scary God to me. If I truly came to believe in a God like this, I’d have reservations, because to be perfectly honest a God like that seems to me to be a God that has evil in It, and I do not want to be on the side of an evil God. I know this sounds blasphemous, but if you found out that Allah really was the true God then perhaps you might have some reservations as well given that there are some things in the Koran that do seem a bit evil (although they could be interpreted differently as everything could of course).
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Good response, Howie. I like the way you put things.
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Nate, William, Howie-
“He sent His only son…”
“While we were yet sinners, He died for us”
Jesus’ grace and peace provide incredible comfort in all times, different than what I suppose other gods would provide. The God of Jesus promises to walk with us as we walk through the fire. In my experience, He has and does.
I find this God in the way Jesus presented Himself to those who were broken, those who didn’t believe or understand Him, and, also, the numerous descriptions of God’s love in Paul, which is consistently presented as being given to us before we make any response.
Howie, I’m not altogether convinced that God does not operate in the way you describe your god of “wonderful surprise”. I think tradition and lots of controlling influences in church history have tried to dampen the scandal of grace that is offered by God through Jesus. If you’re interested, read Robert Farrar Capon’s ‘Between Noon and Three’ and ‘The Mystery of Christ’ and ‘The Parables of the Kingdom, Grace and Judgment’.
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Also, Steve Brown’s ‘Scandalous Freedom’.
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But how is Jesus’ grace and peace made manifest? How has he walked with you? In other words, what can you point to as an illustration of this support you get from Jesus that can’t be explained by any other way? Or wasn’t actually support you received from another flesh-and-blood person?
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Nate-
I think any example I give could be explained another way by someone else. My faith does not preclude God working through people. In fact, scripture presents God as almost always working through people. How do you come to the conclusion that God doesn’t work through people?
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Because I’ve never been given reason to believe otherwise.
If someone does something kind for me, or comforts me when I’m in a bad spot, I know their kind response came from them. I may not know all the reasons that motivated them, but that doesn’t change where the support came from. Even if they believe God told them to help me, it doesn’t make their belief true.
I think when people attribute such positive things to God, it speaks much more to their preconceptions than it does the quality of whatever they’re attributing to him.
For instance, the Mesha Stele (also called the Moabite Stone) is an ancient relic from Palestine. It’s a stone monolith that was carved during the reign of Mesha, King of Moab. He reigned at the same time that Omri of Israel reigned. What’s fascinating about this inscription is that it tells of all the victories and defeats that Mesha had as king, and it attributes all of it — both good and bad — to Chemosh, the Moabite god.
Now you and I don’t believe Chemosh is a real god at all. But to the Moabites, he was very real. And if we could ask the Moabites why they believed in Chemosh, they would no doubt point to all the good and bad things that happened to Mesha. “When Chemosh was pleased with Mesha, he rewarded him with wealth and victory. When Chemosh was angry with Mesha, he plagued him with defeats as a test.”
In fact, there’s no reason to think any of the events recounted in the Mesha Stele needed any divine intervention whatsoever. But if you lived at that time, and you believed in Chemosh, the “evidence” of his favor or displeasure was all around you.
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Josh, I’m having trouble. We’re talking about god and you, like a christian (not being critical), are using bible scripture to make your points… so let’s back up.
What convinces you that the bible is god’s book and not just some collections of superstitious ancient writers?
Don tell me because it tells of jesus – that’s not an answer. That would be like saying Bram Stoker’s Dracula was real because it spoke of Dracula – the creature that we don’t think exists. So, is there any real evidence, like something tangible you can point to?
I ask, because I think there are tangible things I can point to that show it isnt.
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Hey Josh – which of those 4 book recommendations would you put at the top of the list? I’ll read that one.
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William-
I’m sure there’s no reason I could give you that you haven’t already heard. Evidence, reasoning, etc. If you want you can look at Lee Strobel or Josh McDowell’s work to see the reasons that are convincing to me. I’ve shared a lot of those on this blog, and am well aware that you and Nate and many others don’t agree with my conclusions. And, I’m not trying to convince either of you to believe what I do. I felt like throwing in a different perspective. I come here to read what others believe and why, and I’ve been trying to mostly just read lately and not intrude so much on the discussion since I think I’ve contributed, in terms of discussing evidence, all that I’m capable of contributing. So, just adding my two cents 🙂
Howie-
I’d say The Mystery of Christ. Between Noon and Three is a very close second, though.
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Thanks Josh. Your opinion here is always valued. 🙂
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Thanks, Josh. I don’t mean to be unfair. Have a merry Christmas.
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Nate:
Ah, the Deep… my conversion into the realm of comic books has been sudden and vigorous over the last year, so I’m becoming fairly familiar with that place. I wonder if you went to the Rock then at some point? Big non-denom church right next to it. I could see your Pre-Christian self having maybe dropped by there, but maybe that’s just a wild speculation. If I randomly bump into you now though, at least I won’t find it quite as bewildering hah!
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Nate,
Thanks for another thoughtful post. Having read through the comments, I find much with which I can identify. I can fully understand why so many people who ask honest questions would come to the conclusion that Christianity and other theistic belief systems are meant to control rather than illuminate.
In my quest for answers I never really considered atheism because of the amount of evidence pointing to an intelligent source for the cosmos. From a deistic base I sought answers to why the human experience is what it is. The only model that I have found that seems to make any sense of this, is one that includes a reality outside of time and space. This spiritual realm is a part of our reality that cannot be fully understood until it is experienced.
It seems plausible that because of a past rebellion against our Creator, our life form lacks the capacity to exist in both the physical and spiritual realms at the same time. Although having been created in the image with the capacity to be like God, we have yet to experience our full potential. If we survive the death of our bodies and enter into this spiritual realm where we are fully illumined, then all of the questions are answered. In the context of realizing our potential for eternal life in communion with each other and our Creator, the experiences we had in our initial life take on a new perspective.
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@Page28
No, I never went to the Rock, though I think I know which building you’re talking about. Unfortunately, I don’t get up to Huntsville much anymore. But next time I do, I’ll give you a heads up. Maybe we can grab lunch or something!
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Marc, thanks for the comment!
You bring up an interesting idea. And who knows? You may be on to something.
For me, the complexity of the cosmos does not necessitate a god. I don’t know what came before the Big Bang, and I’m not sure what set it off. But I tend to think that whatever it was was natural.
We assume that the default state of nature would be nothingness, even though we can’t experience such a thing. Even space isn’t nothing. But everything we’ve ever experienced has needed a cause of some kind, so it’s only natural we would assume the same about the existence of the universe. I just don’t know how we would test such a thing, so I’m uncomfortable making any assumptions about it.
Most people, when talking about God, don’t limit him to the “prime mover” definition. Much more is implied: a personality, supernatural powers, omnipotence, an eternal existence, etc. But since I’ve never experienced anything supernatural, it’s hard for me to actually believe that such a being exists. I’m honestly more comfortable saying “I don’t know.” And even if such a being exists, I think he’d be okay with my answer, since he hasn’t given me any real reasons to feel differently.
But I do think your idea about it is pretty cool. If I wake up to find my consciousness going on after I’m dead, I’ll be pleasantly surprised. 🙂
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Nate,
I think your approach of honest inquiry and not judging or condemning those with whom you do not agree with is healthy and helpful. If all theists, deists, and atheists followed your example, this world would be a lot better off.
I am confident that whenever your direct encounter with the Creator does takes place, He will indeed be ok with your answer and actions (see Romans 2:14-16).
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That’s a very generous compliment, Marc. Thank you.
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That’s fine with me. And I do have friends in your area, so I’ll keep you in mind when I’m down there. Totally understand why Christianity is all the buzz on your blog now knowing the state we share hah.
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From infancy we are all ingrained with the concept of a mother and/or father watching over us. To the billions of people this concept never leaves them. This would be one reason why people might continue to believe in a God.
Another reason would be that many people have a sub-standard quality of life. If this is as good as it gets, there must surely be something better that awaits them in an afterlife. This was a later concept in Judaism when they were constantly being persecuted and held in exile .
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@kcchief1 — Very good points. I also feel that some people are very “down on themselves” and thus feel the need of a forgiving God, as exemplified in the New Testament.
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I totally agree, Nan
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