Dear Kathy,
Since you graciously agreed (in our recent conversation) to let me present you with some examples of the Bible’s problems, I decided to do it in this way so it would have its own comment thread. As I’ve said, when I was a Christian, one strike against the Bible was not enough to shake my faith — maybe it only seemed problematic, maybe there was an explanation we hadn’t uncovered yet, maybe the historical accounts were wrong, etc. But as the problems began to mount up, I reached a point where I could no longer deny the fact that the Bible had actual errors.
A couple of suggestions before we begin. Try to be as open-minded about this as possible. As you go through these examples, ask yourself if God would allow such problems to exist in a message that he wanted all people to accept and believe? According to the Bible, whenever God sent someone a message, whether it was Pharaoh or Gideon or Nebuchadnezzar or Paul, they had no question whom it was from. They didn’t always follow it, as we see with people like Pharaoh and Solomon, but they didn’t question the source of the message or what it stated. So why would God operate differently today? Why would he want us to be so confused about his message that we’re able to question whether or not it’s really from him?
Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you come to the conclusion that the Bible has actual problems, that doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. There are a number of Christians who don’t believe in inerrancy. And even if you lose faith in the Christian god, that still doesn’t mean you have to stop believing in God. A number of people, including several of our founding fathers, were deists. I have a lot of sympathy for that view and plan to do a post on it soon.
Some of the items listed here will have links that provide additional information, especially when the issue is too detailed to list here. I hope that you’ll check out those links, since some of them are quite significant points. And regardless of how this article strikes you, I hope it will help serve as a great springboard to launch you into your own research.
Some of the Problems
Creation
The creation accounts in Genesis do not match what we’ve learned through science. This isn’t shocking news, but it bears looking into. Evolution and the Big Bang Theory had nothing to do with my deconversion, but I’ve learned more about both since leaving Christianity. It’s shocking how much misinformation I had been operating under. Not to say that all Christians are that way — that was simply my experience. But the evidence for both evolution and the Big Bang are far more substantial than I had ever realized. Two good resources for learning more about these issues are the following (though I’d also recommend checking out the recent Cosmos series, as well as some of the PBS NOVA specials):
Another problem with the creation accounts is that Genesis 1 says that plants and trees were made on the 3rd day, while man was made on the 6th. But Genesis 2:5-9 says that man was created before there were any plants or trees in the land. Also, the 1st chapter says that man was created after all the animals, but the 2nd chapter implies that it was the other way around. It seems strange that such discrepancies would exist only a chapter apart, but there are a number of textual clues that suggest the first 5 books of the Bible were assembled over a long period of time from various writings written by a number of different people. Many scholars believe that Genesis 1 and 2 represent two separate versions of the creation story that were both included because the compilers didn’t know which was more accurate. Whatever the reason, there’s no question that the differences exist and are hard to explain.
10 Plagues
During the 10 plagues, God afflicts all of Egypt’s livestock with a disease (Ex 9:1-7), and it specifies that it would affect the “horses, the donkeys, the camels, the herds, and the flocks.” We’re told that all of Egypt’s livestock died. But the later plague of boils was said to affect both man and beast (verse 10 of chapter 9). Maybe it meant non-livestock animals. But Ex 11:5 says that the death of the firstborn would also affect Egypt’s cattle, and in Exodus 14, Pharaoh pursues the Israelites with horses.
Hares Chew the Cud
Leviticus 11:6 tells us that hares chew the cud. They do not. Animals that chew the cud are called ruminants. When they eat plant matter, it goes to their first stomach to soften, and then it’s regurgitated to their mouth. They spend time re-chewing it, and then it is swallowed and fully digested. Ruminants (cows, sheep, goats, etc.) are recognizable because their chewing of the cud is very obvious. Hares (rabbits) don’t chew the cud; however, their mouths do move frequently, so it’s possible to see why some people may have assumed that they do chew the cud. Of course, God would know they didn’t, and this is why the passage is problematic. You can read more about this here.
Arphaxad
In the genealogy given in Genesis 11:10-12, we see that Noah fathered Shem and Shem fathered Arphaxad. At the age of 35, Arphaxad fathered Shelah. This information is confirmed in 1 Chron 1:18. But Luke 3:35-36 tells us that Arphaxad’s son was Cainan, and he was the father of Shelah.
Where does Luke get this information? It disagrees with the Old Testament, so who should we believe? Some have suggested that Genesis and 1 Chronicles simply left out Cainan for some reason. But why would they do that? To further complicate it, how could Cainan have fit in there? Genesis tells us that Arphaxad was 35 when he fathered Shelah. Does it really seem likely that Arphaxad became a grandfather by 35, especially when you consider the extreme old ages that people lived to at that time?
Another explanation is that some copyist messed up when copying Luke and Cainan is just a mistake. But this is not much better. First of all, the error would have needed to occur early for it to be in all our copies of Luke. Secondly, are we really comfortable saying that we have the inspired word of our creator, but it got messed up by some guy who wasn’t paying close attention? To me, that doesn’t lend a lot of credence to the idea of inspiration or inerrancy.
Instead, the most likely explanation is that Luke made a mistake. This, of course, would indicate that he was not inspired.
Problems in the Book of Daniel
In Daniel 5, the writer refers to Belshazzar as the son of Nebuchadnezzar 7 different times. Yet we know from multiple contemporary sources that Belshazzar’s father was Nabonidus, who was not related to Nebuchadnezzar. The same chapter says that Darius the Mede took over Babylon, but this person does not seem to have ever existed. Daniel says that he was the son of Ahaseurus, and in mentioning this, the author of Daniel indicates that he was thinking of a later ruler — the persian emperor Darius the Great, whose son was Ahaseurus. This post in particular goes into the problems surrounding the 5th chapter, but if you’d like to learn about the problems in the rest of the book, you can access each article in the series here.
Jairus’s Daughter
In Mark 5:23, Jairus finds Jesus and says that his daughter is at the point of death. While they’re on their way to the house, some of his servants find them on the way and say that she has died and there’s no point in troubling Jesus further.
However, in Matthew 9:18, Jairus already knows that his daughter has died, but tells Jesus that if he’ll lay his hands on her, she’ll live. This may seem like a minor difference, but honestly, there’s only one scenario that could be true. Either the girl was already dead, or she wasn’t. And if Jairus already knew she was dead, then there was no point in his servants coming to tell him that (so of course, they don’t appear in Matthew’s account).
The Centurion
This is similar to the previous issue. Matthew and Luke both record a centurion who asks Jesus to heal his sick servant. Matthew 8:5-13 says that the centurion himself comes before Jesus to ask for help. Luke 7:1-10 says that the Jewish elders went on his behalf, and then he sent servants to follow up. In Luke, Jesus never speaks to, or even sees, the centurion at all.
Hight Priest
In Mark 2:23-28, Jesus talks about the occasion from the Old Testament when David ate the showbread, which Jesus said was in the days of Abiathar the high priest. However, in 1 Samuel 21:1-6, it appears that Ahimelech was the high priest. Some have tried to answer this problem by saying that Abiathar was alive during that particular episode, so Jesus’ statement is still true. But that’s obviously not the intent of the passage. After all, we would correct anyone who said that the tragedy of 9/11 occurred during the days of President Barack Obama. He may have been alive at the time, but that event did not happen while he was President.
430 Years
Galatians 3:16-17 says this:
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
Here, Paul says that the law came 430 years after the promises were made to Abraham. But in Exodus 12:40-41, we see:
Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years. At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the LORD’s divisions left Egypt.
If the Israelites were in Egypt 430 years, then there could not have been 430 years between Abraham’s promises and the law. God made the promises to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3, and as we read on through Genesis, we see that Abraham had no children at this time. Later, he had a son named Isaac. When Isaac was 60 years old, he had Jacob (Gen 25:24-26), and Jacob had 12 sons that produced the 12 tribes of Israel. Already, we can see that some time has passed since Abraham received the promise. Once Jacob’s sons were all grown with families of their own, they finally settled in Egypt. Jacob was 130 years old at this time (Gen 47:9), and this marks the beginning of that 430 year period that the Israelites spent in Egypt.
That means that the time between the promise to Abraham and the giving of the law was actually over 600 years. So why did Paul say 430 years? I think it’s obvious that this was a simple mistake. He remembered the 430 year figure because that’s how much time the Israelites spent in Egypt, and so he simply misspoke. It’s not a big deal… except that he’s supposed to be inspired by God.
Jesus’ Birth
There are a number of issues surrounding Jesus’ birth. First, Matthew’s and Luke’s accounts contradict one another on virtually all the details, which you can read about here. Secondly, Matthew seems to invent an episode where Herod kills all the children in Bethlehem who are 2 and under, causing Mary, Joseph, and Jesus to flee to Egypt (instead of just returning home to Nazareth, because only Luke says that they started in Nazareth). Matthew does this in order to “fulfill” some Old Testament passages that actually have nothing to do with Jesus or killing babies. You can read about Matthew’s misuse of the Old Testament here — it’s quite blatant.
The Virgin Birth is one of the most famous aspects of Jesus’ story, and it was supposedly done in fulfillment of a prophecy from Isaiah. But it turns out that Isaiah was prophesying no such thing — he was talking about an event that was happening in his own time, and Matthew (once again) just appropriated the “prophecy” for his own devices. You can read all the details here.
Another problem concerning Jesus’ birth narratives is that Matthew and Luke both offer genealogies for Jesus, but they are completely different from one another. Worse, they don’t match the genealogies listed in the Old Testament, either. And Matthew claims that there was a pattern in the number of generations between Abraham and David, between David and the Babylonian captivity, and between the Babylonian captivity and Christ. But to get this neat division, he is forced to leave out some names. In other words, that pattern didn’t happen. You can read more about that here.
The Triumphal Entry
While not as blatant as most of these other issues, when Matthew recounts Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem, he once again borrows from the Old Testament, but seems to make a mistake in his implementation. See here for more info.
Judas’ Death
Judas is well known for being the disciple that betrayed Jesus, but what’s not as well known is there are two different accounts of his death, and it’s very hard to reconcile them. According to Matthew, Judas threw his money down at the chief priests’ feet and went out and hanged himself. We’re not told where he did this. The priests then take the money, and instead of putting it back in the treasury (since it’s blood money), they buy a field to use for burying strangers. Because they bought the field with this money, it’s called the “Field of Blood.”
According to Acts, Judas bought a field with his money (we’re not told that he was remorseful), and he somehow fell down, bursting open in the middle and bleeding to death. The field was called “Field of Blood” after that because of the manner in which Judas died.
To make things more complicated, Matthew (of course) says that this happened in accordance with Jeremiah’s prophecy, but there’s nothing in Jeremiah that matches up. The closest reference comes from Zechariah, not Jeremiah.
These issues really complicate the notion of divine inspiration, and you can read more about them here.
The Crucifixion
There are several big problems with the way the gospels record the events of Jesus’ death, including the fact that different times of day are given for it, and even different days altogether. You can read more about this here.
The Resurrection
There are also a number of problems concerning the resurrection, some minor, some major. They’re too involved to get into here, but you can read all about them here and here.
The Problem of Hell
The notion of Hell is fraught with problems. It might even surprise you to learn that the Bible’s teachings on the afterlife change dramatically between the Old and New Testaments. I go into detail about Hell’s problems here, here, and here.
The Problem of Evil
Another huge problem for Christianity is the problem of evil, which I talk about here. This post also addresses the “problem of Heaven.”
The Bible’s Morality
While a number of people believe that the Christian god is the source of all morality, the Bible is actually filled with some monstrous acts that are either commanded by God, done with his consent, or carried out by him directly. I talk about some specific examples here, and I address some of the common responses to them here.
Conclusion
Kathy, there are a number of other examples that could be given, including the prophecy of Tyre that we’ve been discussing. But to me, these are some of the most significant and clear-cut problems. We could try to manufacture explanations for every one of these — some might be more believable than others. But why should we have to? If a perfect God inspired this book, why should it contain so many discrepancies? And honestly, some of these issues can’t be explained. They’re just wrong. The problems go well beyond internal contradictions and unfulfilled prophecies. There are problems of authorship, problems with the doctrines, and problems with the way the texts were written, transcribed, and compiled.
I’m sure you’ve spent your time as a Christian trying to reach those who are lost. You’ve always believed that Christianity is truth, and it’s the one thing that everyone needs. But could it be that Christianity is just as false as every other religion in the world? And if that’s the case, wouldn’t you want to leave it behind? When one is dedicated to finding truth, they have to be prepared to follow it wherever it leads. It’s not always easy or popular. It’s not even a guarantee that you’re right. All it means is that you follow the evidence where it leads to the best of your ability. If you find out that you’re wrong about something, you adjust course when the evidence dictates. If God exists, and if he’s righteous, what more could he ask for than that? I’ll close with my favorite quote:
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
— Marcus Aurelius
Finding Truth 
Also from “The Prophet” – “Your children live in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.” Yet you, and your ilk, would make “the House of Tomorrow,” into the “House of yesteryear.” Sad.
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Since atheists don’t believe in God we are unconcerned with whether our politics and social views align with what scripture says. I really don’t know why anyone would get really very worked up about being labeled a liberal. It’s hardly an insult.
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“You are focusing on things that are INSIGNIFICANT.. because again, it reveals what is in your heart. If your questions related to contradictions in the actual MESSAGE of the Bible, then I could see your point.. but times and dates.. it just doesn’t matter in the big picture of what Jesus did for US on the cross. You have chosen to make those insignificant things, significant.. WHY??” – kathy
because if we cant trust the little things, how can we trust the big ones?
besides, like nate once before, it’s like a crime drama. But this isnt me assuming the bible is a criminal right off the bat, in fact, it was quite the opposite. But with either a true suspect or with routine questions to the presumed innocent, the detectives will ask questions, ask for their recollection of events, etc.
When the stories are vastly different, it’s obvious there’s a problem. When the stories line up on the important parts, but fall apart on the little details, it looks like collusion, like several people got together, rehearsed their story, but forgot to invent every small detail, so when the colluding parties tell their events, they’re same on the parts they rehearsed, but differ on the small details.
the devil’s in the details.
So when jesus rose from the dead, and all four accounts have a different number, location and speech from the angels (or men), it looks like they agreed on their being messengers, but as to how many or when or where they spoke, who knows which one or if any are right?
maybe this is just evidence of man’s work? Maybe, since god hasnt spoken to any of us, and since we know that simply claiming “god send me” doesnt mean that he really did, maybe this really does have problems.
If it weree one event? I guess most of us would still be Christians, because we could excuse one problem and chalk it up to our lack of understanding, but when we’ve seen this wide assortment of issues, it seems to make much more sense that this is just a religion like another – created by man.
If we used Elijah’s test to Baal against god, how would he fair? Ask him to set his alter on fire? I’d wager that I could burn down ontario by rubbing two sticks together before god lit your alter. I think it’s very convenient that god doesnt work that way today. Very convenient that he gave miracles to paul and thomas and many others so that they might believe, but he wont do that today because we have this book?
people write books all the time, one more isnt a miracle. age of religion doesnt imply divinity – as there are much older one still in prcatice.
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William, you said:
““We can TRUST the ENTIRE Bible because it was approved by God.” – kathy
kathy, this is the very question, how do you know it’s approved by god?”
We know because of the evidence that supports it’s truth.
“the evidence? an old book that contains the names of old places isn’t evidence of divinity. however, an old book written by men with problems in it is evidence of a book written by men.”
This is a great example of blatant bias and double standards. The Bible gives countless details within it’s messages / lessons.. and those details are backed up by factual evidence.. it supports the accuracy of the Bible. It supports the claim that the Bible is not a book of fiction. This is evidence that goes towards the truth of the Bible. You trying to dismiss this is blatant bias, a clear example of lack of objectivity.
“We all once thought it was divinely inspired too, until we saw thing after thing that didnt seem to add up.”
Trivial things William.. nothing that matters in the actual MESSAGE of the Bible.
“After that, we realized that this book, which is a man selected, man compiled, man translated, and man written compilation of letters and books is maybe just that – a product of man.”
Yes! It’s a product of man who was inspired by God.. no other way to produce the fulfilled prophecies.. or inspire rational, loving people to devote their lives and give their lives.
“all of a sudden, all of the parts seemed hard to understand or reconcile became clear. A perfect god hadnt ordered “his people” to slaughter women and children, but he israelites were simply a product of their time and wrote what they believed at the time., and so and so on.”
So, “all of a sudden”.. there WASN’T a Man named Jesus.. even though the overwhelming majority of historians believe there was.. and, “all of a sudden” .. the disciples DIDN’T give their lives to testify to what this Man did for us.. and “all of a sudden”.. the fulfilled prophesies, somehow are NOT fulfilled.. and “all of a sudden”.. there AREN’T billions of people who believe in the truth of the Bible.. “all of a sudden” “poof”.. God is no more.. all because the dates didn’t match up in a written text that is thousands of years old, translated several times within different cultures.. but none of that matters.. because hey.. they are “contradictions”!
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I believe every atheist here is a liberal.. all you have to do to prove me wrong is present views that are not against God..
Well them I’m guilty as charged. The Bible shows that God approves of duplicity, deception, slavery, genocide, theft, plunder, pillaging, infanticide, homophobia, misogyny and rape…all things that I’m totally against.
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. ~ Richard Dawkins
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“Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.” Luke 16:10
If a text is meant to be inerrant and it gets the little things wrong how can anyone be sure of the big things?
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“Arch, I realize this is very complicated for you.. but it is explained IN the Bible! Read it.. that’s what it’s there for 🙂”
I’ve read it, in it’s entirity, I would strongly suspect, far more times than you.
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“I’ve already defined what a liberal is today.. those who adhere to anti God beliefs and views, including and especially political & social views.” – kathy
thanks. That’s not the real definition, but i get you now. For clarity, why dont you just say, “non-religious” or “atheist?”
I dont like abortion, but i’m not sure what that has to do with the validity of the bible. I consider myself a independent anyways – whether in politics or religion.
But this also seems to point to your own objectivity, doesnt it? The “liberals” are all anti-god and they all like to side step the discussion, etc, etc…
have you made up in your mind that someone who doesn’t believe in your god cannot be a good, moral person, capable of rational thought and honest dialogue?
We should let our reason define our path, not let our path dictate our reason.
In other words, we should start off as neutral as possible and let the facts and logic guide us to a conclusion. When i was a christian, I was starting with a preconceived belief and then worked my path from there. The latter is not the way to be objective.
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“This is a great example of blatant bias and double standards. The Bible gives countless details within it’s messages / lessons.. and those details are backed up by factual evidence.. it supports the accuracy of the Bible. It supports the claim that the Bible is not a book of fiction. This is evidence that goes towards the truth of the Bible. You trying to dismiss this is blatant bias, a clear example of lack of objectivity.” – kathy
okay, what is it? I’ve overlooked it. what is the factual evidence?
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OMG! (Oh My Gufus!) – This topic is like “Jason” – just when you think it’s really, truly dead, it reaches out and grabs your ankle!
Nate, what have you DONE?!!!
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“So, “all of a sudden”.. there WASN’T a Man named Jesus.. even though the overwhelming majority of historians believe there was.. and, “all of a sudden” .. the disciples DIDN’T give their lives to testify to what this Man did for us.. and “all of a sudden”.. the fulfilled prophesies, somehow are NOT fulfilled.. and “all of a sudden”.. there AREN’T billions of people who believe in the truth of the Bible.. “all of a sudden” “poof”.. God is no more.. all because the dates didn’t match up in a written text that is thousands of years old, translated several times within different cultures.. but none of that matters.. because hey.. they are “contradictions”!” – kathy
I dont dispute that jesus was a real man, nor do i dispute that disciples of his became martyrs. Fulfilled prophecies, I do dispute (but we can go over those one at a time after you provide your factual evidence if you like), but i dont dispute that millions believe in the bible.
But how does a historical man, martyrs and believers equal truth?
Nostradomis was a reliable of a prophet as the bible – is he divinely inspired? what religion is without martyrs and believers? are they all true?
what’s the evidence that proves the bible is true and should be followed above all else?
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Still too lazy to look up my posted information, aren’t you? Would you say that you CHOOSE not to do that?
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William said:
“because if we cant trust the little things, how can we trust the big ones?”
Why can’t you trust the little things? There ARE possible explanations for those “little” (your admission) things.. since they are “little”.. why can’t you just give them the benefit of the doubt? And accept the possible explanations??
“besides, like nate once before, it’s like a crime drama. But this isnt me assuming the bible is a criminal right off the bat, in fact, it was quite the opposite. But with either a true suspect or with routine questions to the presumed innocent, the detectives will ask questions, ask for their recollection of events, etc. ”
Nothing wrong with asking questions.. it’s HOW you process the data that matters.. if you IGNORE all the things that were correct and instead focus on trivial things like “sunrise” “still dark” etc.. you are not being objective.. you have to look at the WHOLE picture.. NOT aggressively look for excuses/ mistakes so you can reject God.
“When the stories are vastly different, it’s obvious there’s a problem.”
But that’s just it.. the stories are NOT “vastly different”.. fundamentally they line up almost perfectly. That there are small differences testifies to it’s TRUTH William.. if it was all a lie, the stories WOULD match perfectly. This reasoning conveniently goes right over the atheist’s head. But to believers, it’s just more evidence of the truth of the Bible.
“the devil’s in the details.”
Wow.. you said it… exactly! You all are being deceived by trivial details.
“So when jesus rose from the dead, and all four accounts have a different number, location and speech from the angels (or men), it looks like they agreed on their being messengers, but as to how many or when or where they spoke, who knows which one or if any are right?”
William, there is NOTHING that contradicts anything else… it ALL could have happened.
Why don’t you all asked yourselves.. (which you WOULD if you applied objectivity).. why those seeming “contradictions” were included in the Bible? Why not just edit them out? Or not include the accounts that show “contradictions”??
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William said:
“But how does a historical man, martyrs and believers equal truth?”
Once again William.. I didn’t claim this was “proof”.. I’m claiming it is COMPELLING evidence.
“Nostradomis was a reliable of a prophet as the bible – is he divinely inspired? what religion is without martyrs and believers? are they all true?
what’s the evidence that proves the bible is true and should be followed above all else?”
Yes, this IS where we go from my claim.. we see how the compelling evidence COMPARES to other gods/ faiths.
I’m not fully aware of NOstradomis’s story.. did he claim to be a diety or prophet? Prophet to who? And what is the “compelling evidence”? That he got some predictions correct is evidence, possibly also compelling evidence, but THEN you look at the accumulation of evidence, you “WEIGH” the evidence, how does it compare to the evidence for the truth of the Bible??
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Ron said:
“I believe every atheist here is a liberal.. all you have to do to prove me wrong is present views that are not against God..
Well them I’m guilty as charged. The Bible shows that God approves of duplicity, deception, slavery, genocide, theft, plunder, pillaging, infanticide, homophobia, misogyny and rape…all things that I’m totally against.”
Another atheist lie.. the Bible does NOT show that God approves of any of this. But you all hold tightly to these things.. don’t try to understand the big picture.. that would be too inconvenient to your lives.. you would have to believe and live accordingly.
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“Nothing wrong with asking questions.. it’s HOW you process the data that matters.. if you IGNORE all the things that were correct and instead focus on trivial things like “sunrise” “still dark” etc.. you are not being objective.. you have to look at the WHOLE picture.. NOT aggressively look for excuses/ mistakes so you can reject God.” – kathy
what about on things like which day jesus was crucified? before passover liek John says or after passover like mark says?
What about jesus’ genealogy through joseph? Luke or Matthew?
what about matthew attributing a zechariah quote to jeremiah?
What about where the messengers were at the tomb? On the rock, in the tomb or outside the tomb, off the rock?
I could go on and on…
Yes, look at the whole picture – I agree.
I’m looking for truth, if god be there, then i should find him. But if you’ve already decided that the bible god is truth, then there you go – it’s just not objective.
“When the stories are vastly different, it’s obvious there’s a problem.”
But that’s just it.. the stories are NOT “vastly different” – kathy
this is just a clarification. I wanst saying the stories were vastly different, i was comparing to stories where people agreed to plan out the details of a made up story – they get the major details inline, but often forget to go over the minute details – thus revealing the lie.
trivial details? maybe. But from a perfect creator and author, no details should be considered trivial. or do you disagree?
“William, there is NOTHING that contradicts anything else… it ALL could have happened.” – kathy
really? I guess when you have an all powerful god who can do anything, even the absurd, then sure, it all could have happened just as easily as all religion could have been created by him as well, even though each says the other is wrong… it’s not impossible for god – nothing is. what contradiction cant be reconciled in the way you try to reconcile the biblical problems?
“Why don’t you all asked yourselves.. (which you WOULD if you applied objectivity).. why those seeming “contradictions” were included in the Bible? Why not just edit them out? Or not include the accounts that show “contradictions”??” – kathy
are you essentially saying that these issues are such obvious errors, that they cant be errors, because they would have been edited?
Look, let’s just start with the factual evidence you say is so abundantly clear. maybe this will clear it all up. can you present some of it?
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“Another atheist lie.. the Bible does NOT show that God approves of any of this. But you all hold tightly to these things.. don’t try to understand the big picture.. that would be too inconvenient to your lives.. you would have to believe and live accordingly.”
the OT does in certain contexts… and the NT seems to allow slavery in one way or aniother – but it’s really beside the point.
The evidence you spoke of?
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Ruth said:
“RE: – “And to say that He didn’t need to do it is the ultimate ignorance.. God wouldn’t go through this if He didn’t have to in order to save us”” – to “save” us from himself!
Why would a God who created us from nothing have to require sacrifice in order to save anything he created?”
Mike was right about you Ruth.. you couldn’t have really been a fervent Christian as you claim because this is all explained IN the Bible.
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“Once again William.. I didn’t claim this was “proof”.. I’m claiming it is COMPELLING evidence.” – kathy
once again kathy, if it’s compelling evidence for christianity, then it also for every other religion.
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“Mike was right about you Ruth.. you couldn’t have really been a fervent Christian as you claim because this is all explained IN the Bible.”
mike isnt a christian either, as he’s known from his fruits. But how, kathy has the bible explained all this? Why the need for blood, if god didnt make that up? what rules is god bound by that he was forced to mandate that?
what scripture explains that?
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Mike was right about you Ruth.. you couldn’t have really been a fervent Christian as you claim because this is all explained IN the Bible.
Yes, I know it is. I’ve read it. There are explanations for a great many things in a great many books that are illogical that people believe, including me.
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kathy, what’s the evidence you speak of? How do you know the bible is truth?
I’m just gonna go out here on a limb and guess that you think the bible is from god because it claims to be. is that close?
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“Once again William.. I didn’t claim this was “proof”.. I’m claiming it is COMPELLING evidence.” – kathy
once again kathy, if it’s compelling evidence for christianity, then it also for every other religion.”
Once again William.. you WEIGH the evidence.. just like a jury does. It’s not a new concept.. it’s simple basic logic.
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“Mike was right about you Ruth.. you couldn’t have really been a fervent Christian as you claim because this is all explained IN the Bible.
Yes, I know it is. I’ve read it. There are explanations for a great many things in a great many books that are illogical that people believe, including me.”
Just like our very existence isn’t logical. Your argument shows bias..
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Just like our very existence isn’t logical. Your argument shows bias..
Our very existence isn’t logical so…Jesus. Okay. Got it now.
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