I was listening to a recent speech that Matt Dillahunty gave in Australia (listen here if you’re interested), and in part of it he brought up the story of the Tower of Babel, found in Genesis 11. It’s a story I’ve thought about several times since leaving Christianity. I don’t recall everything Matt said about it, though I know I’ll be making some of the same points he did. I haven’t been a Christian for about 5 years now, and it’s sometimes hard to imagine that I ever believed stories like this one, though I definitely did. And a number of other conservative Christians do as well.
A few days ago, I asked my wife if she remembered what God was angry about in this story, and she gave the same reason that I thought: God was angry because people were being prideful. In case you’ve forgotten, the crux of the story is that several generations after the flood, mankind was growing numerous, and they all had one common language. They decided to build a tower that would reach Heaven (see how prideful?), so God put a stop to it by confusing their language. This caused the various groups to split up, each person going along with whomever could understand him or her.
However, after looking at the details a bit more, it turns out that my recollection was a bit off. First, the people weren’t actually being prideful at all. Instead of trying to build a tower to Heaven — God’s abode — they were just trying to build a tall one to make it easier to stay in one geographic area:
Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. 2 And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. 3 And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.”
— Genesis 11:1-4
The phrase “in the heavens” is just talking about the sky, not the realm of God. For just a moment though, let’s pretend that they really had been trying to reach God with their tower. Why would that be such a bad thing? Doesn’t the Bible repeatedly tell us to seek after God? Furthermore, would they have succeeded? On September 12, 2013, Voyager 1 actually left our solar system. In all those miles, it didn’t bump into Heaven. No earth-based tower would ever run the risk of reaching God’s home. So not only were the people not attempting that, even if they had been it wouldn’t have succeeded, and it actually would have been flattering toward God.
So if God wasn’t angry at them for being prideful, why did he confuse their language and force them apart? The next few verses give us the answer:
And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. 6 And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.
— Genesis 11:5-9
Essentially, God was just being a jerk. He was like a kid stirring up an anthill. I mean, God forbid (literally) that people advance technologically, right? Wouldn’t want them discovering things like the germ theory of disease, after all. And why prevent wars by keeping people within the same culture? Much better, I guess, to create different cultures so mistrust and bigotry can form. Furthermore, if this was such a problem at the time, why hasn’t he stopped us again? We’ve figured out ways to overcome language and culture barriers now. We’ve done so much more than just “build a tall tower.” God’s motivation in this story simply makes no sense at all.
However, if you step back for a moment and stop trying to view this as literal history with an actual god, things become clearer. Imagine living thousands of years ago and trying to make sense of the world around you. You think the world is flat and that the sun revolves around it. You don’t understand the cause of thunder storms, earthquakes, or volcanoes. You can’t imagine how animals and humans got here without some kind of creator. And if there’s a creator, why didn’t he make life easier? Why does he allow disease and starvation? There are so many difficult questions that just have no answer. And so people began to formulate answers as best they could. It’s easy to see that one of those questions may have been “why didn’t God (the gods) give us all the same language?” And so they came up with an answer.
Looking at it from that perspective, it’s much easier to understand how a story like this came to be. These people were dealing with the world as they saw it — and to them, the only reason they could think of for God not wanting everyone to have the same language, is that they would accomplish too much. They had no idea that humanity would one day find a way around that problem, rendering their explanation invalid.
Speaking as someone who grew up believing that stories like this were actual history, I know how easy it is to just go along under that assumption without question, especially if those around us believe as we do. It’s not stupidity; it’s either isolation and ignorance, or it’s stubbornness. We can help the isolated and ignorant by just being available to discuss these things when they come up. And with the Bible, there are plenty of examples to be found.
Finding Truth 
I have a lot of comments to catch up on, so I won’t be jumping back in to the conversation just yet. I just wanted to stop by and say that I did a write up on why I think an infinite past is possible. I don’t think it’s something that can be proven by any means, it’s just something that should remain a possibility in my view. You can read my post here.
LikeLiked by 1 person
… but the entire context of the Bible indicates it would be sinful actions — Mike
That’s such a WEAK argument … and one that is NOT supported by anything except your own personal perspective.
You tell Nate (and others) about their “cheap and intellectually dishonest theatrics,” but your comments fit this description far more aptly than anything anyone else has written.
If YOU had “an ounce of intellectually honesty,” you would be open to discuss other viewpoints without demonstrating your caustic and acerbic nature. There are numerous other blogs where believers and non-believers discuss their differences without insulting the character of one another. Suggest you visit a few — you might learn something.
Arch hit the nail on the head when he wrote: Speaking of psychology, one has to wonder what happened to this man in his life that created what we see here today – he couldn’t have been born like that. Let’s hope not!
I know as well as my heart is beating that this comment will be answered with the usual offensive and defensive rhetoric. Nevertheless, I stand by what I have written.
Oh and by the way, I’m removing the option to receive emails related to comments on this posting so whatever you say will be only for your own satisfaction. Enjoy!
LikeLiked by 2 people
“There’s no evidence that that a monotheistic Hebrew religion existed in early Mesopotamia, therefore it must have.“”
Let me see if I can break it down into small bits so your aging mind can more process it Arch
Prayers (you know when you kneel down or speak to God …etc)
Are (verb form for is)
Not preserved (means basically – won’t last long)
In archaeological ruins ( Google the two words – space constraints – sorry – you can Check KK for his PC tutor if that presents an issue for you)
Therefore Your claim that a particular religion – one that does not have artifacts that would be preserved – can be stated as fact not to exist in a given time period is
nonsense – (if you think of ANY thought you had you will have a pretty good example of the meaning of that word).
Does it prove that the the religion must exist? Nope never said that (straw straw every where a straw – sung to the tune of “old macDonald had a farm”) but does it show that you can’t use
archaeology to verify that it didn’t?…Yep….easily defeating yet another one of your garbage no thought claims.
If you STILL can’t get the point then we can use LARGE CUE CARDS and flash them SLOOOOOOOOWLY to allow you to Prooooooocessssssss it more eaaaaaaasily.
Okay bro? i’m rooting for you to pull through…..Get well soon. In fact I am rooting for all of you to get well soon. Well except Dave and Powell. They might have issues but it doesn’t seem
to be too much symptoms …yet.
LikeLike
Can’t say I blame you there, Nan! Probably a very wise move.
LikeLike
“it is interesting, most of those on nate’s blog know that “knowledge” and “”technology” do not mean the same thing, ”
ROFL…these comedians ar eon a roll. Technology is a subset of knowledge. Claiming someone can talk about technology but not be talking about knowledge (as Nate just claimed) is like saying you are talking about women but not humans
LikeLike
“and one that is NOT supported by anything except your own personal perspective.”
That only proves as I already knew you had no clue about the Bible. That pretty much is par for the course and why no one need buy your credility as true ex christians. Beyond that it needs no rebuttal because it had no other substance worthy of a rebuttal…as usual.
LikeLike
“I have a lot of comments to catch up on, so I won’t be jumping back in to the conversation just yet.’
Fair enough my man and by the way I really don’t expect you to really lay out very detailed evidence for infinity past. There are a couple issues as to its coherence but I am not expecting some lab test for its existence as long as (and you do ) admit its not truly provable.
I will probably get to your link over the weekend. Thanks
LikeLike
“ROFL…these comedians ar eon a roll. Technology is a subset of knowledge. Claiming someone can talk about technology but not be talking about knowledge (as Nate just claimed) is like saying you are talking about women but not humans” -ABlacksmanagain
oh, but you’re ignoring me, right? so you’re criticizing me for pointing out that “knowledge” and “technology” aren’t the same thing by detailing that they are merely related and not the same thing? thanks?
glad we cleared that up, i guess.
pointing out to Arch how prayers arent preserved… you’re right of course. but then, so is arch in saying there’s no evidence.
lack of evidence isnt evidence of presence, you know?
and know what else, other than evidence, isnt there? pagan worship in gen 11.
LikeLike
“Fair enough my man and by the way I really don’t expect you to really lay out very detailed evidence for infinity past. There are a couple issues as to its coherence but I am not expecting some lab test for its existence as long as (and you do ) admit its not truly provable.” – ABlacksmangaian
and mike, if you want to finally address the next logical step in the discussion, how do you get from a supernatural first cause, to 1 god, to the god of the bible?
if you cant show that, then proving a supernatural first cause gets you nowhere, even if you could prove it. oddly, you insist on this discussion as if you can, but then also say that science will never know… which makes me curious how you know if no one else can.
LikeLike
“That only proves as I already knew you had no clue about the Bible. That pretty much is par for the course and why no one need buy your credility as true ex christians. Beyond that it needs no rebuttal because it had no other substance worthy of a rebuttal…as usual.” – ABlacksmanagain
and you know who else doesnt know anything about the bible? a guy who insists that god confused the languages at the tower of babel over pagan worship.
LikeLike
where’s victoria? I am curious as to her take on this fellow; a man that accuses everyone of lying and twisting passages when he lies and twists passages.
troll, for sure. But i am curious if these signs point toward any real personalty disorder. I seriously wonder in he has a brain tumor with this erratic and odd behavior.
I am also curious about Mike’s own beliefs. he doesnt really share any specifics. his MO is to criticize others for being liars or poorly educated or something similar, say he’s going to leave, but then sadly doesnt… so we’re all left wondering who this douche really is, and what he really thinks.
his act is so over the top it is similar to a cartoon character. I mean, this should be a show on adult swim – i’d watch it.
LikeLike
More proof that Jesus was just a man, not a god, and therefore unable to bring himself back from the dead:
The Bible itself says that Jesus did NOT believe that he was God
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He (Jesus) said to him, “Why do you call Me good?[b] No one is good but One, that is, God.[c] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Matthew 19:16-17
LikeLike
I think a believer would see that as a clever way to admit you’re the son of god…
the real issue is that god has told us nothing. people said that god said something. a personal relationship with jesus is imaginary.
LikeLike
William,
I agree, but I would point out to that believer that no where in the Synoptic gospels does Jesus refer to himself as the Son of God, and absolutely never refers to himself as God. Only the Gospel of John and the writings of Paul tell us that Jesus claimed these titles of divinity.
I believe the passage in Matthew above proves that there were two Christianitys in the New Testament: Judaic Christianity and Gentile Pauline Christianity. This is very easy to see if one sets aside one’s indoctrinated assumptions.
LikeLike
yeah, i get it.
what’s also interesting is that we dont know that the red line jesus quotes are even legit. jesus was said to have said
it’s all hearsay. baseless claims.
LikeLike
nate, i keep reading this section of the text:
“And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. 6 And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
1 – god came down to see the tower
2 – at seeing the tower, god comments
– they are one people
– they have 1 language
– this is only the beginning of what they will do
– nothing that they propose to do will be impossible for them
3 – god confuses their languages so that they wont understand each other.
I guess the question we’ve been discussing is why did god confuse the languages?
1. he noticed that they spoke 1 language and new they wouldn’t be able to understand each other if you made multiple languages.
2. he took notice of their languages because of the tower they were building, since he came down to see it.
3. but god’s last 2 comments of “this is only the beginning of what they will do,” and “nothing that they propose will to do will be impossible for them,” certainly makes it look like god wanted to make it difficult for them to do other things like making a tall tower.
now, i am not aware of any translation that uses the specific term “technology,” even though it is easy to see why one might use that term based upon god’s recorded quotes. nevertheless, there are some who dispute it was to curb “technology” advances, and I dont see it worth fighting over since the term isnt explicitly there. I mean, “pagan worship” surely isnt there (that’s just stupid to assert).
and I guess the text doesnt even specifically state that god was mad (which he would have been at pagan worship (which isnt mentioned at all)) or angry.
But following the bible’s own timeline, this event happened too recently to have been an actually historical even in the starting point of language diversity. History and archaeology show this to be just a legend story as well.
LikeLike
Not only did Jesus fail to fulfill the six crucial messianic prophecies of the Old Testament, Jesus failed to fulfill one of his OWN prophecies!
‘Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.” 39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. —Matthew 12:38-40
If you read the Gospels, Jesus’ body was allegedly placed in the tomb before sunset on Friday and the tomb was found empty either at or just before sunrise on Sunday. That means that Jesus’ body was only in the “earth” for TWO nights, Friday and Saturday nights, not three nights, as Jesus had “prophesied”.
Jesus made a mistake.
According to Deuteronomy 18:19-22 any prophet who makes an incorrect prophecy is to be marked as a false prophecy and is to be put to death.
Jesus was not the messiah. Jesus was not God. Jesus was a man who made a mistake.
LikeLike
“If you read the Gospels, Jesus’ body was allegedly placed in the tomb before sunset on Friday ”
LOl 🙂 i guess you never read the Gospels then (little surprise there) . The Gospels never say anything about a “sunset on Friday”
Mayday! Mayday! another one of his proof texts been shot out of the sky.
LikeLike
“I agree, but I would point out to that believer that no where in the Synoptic gospels does Jesus refer to himself as the Son of God, ”
Even in in John Jesus does not go around saying “hi my hame is Jesus and I am the son of God how are you today’ (I guess in a deep voice?)
Maybe you all should have a meeting to keep your collective stories straight. There was opining before about Matthew and the virgin birth passage. Naughty Matthew for talking about virgin births
“20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[f] because he will save his people from their sins.”
22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[g] (which means “God with us”).”
But now here you are trying to float some half baked theory that because the gospels don’t record jesus saying “HI I am the son of god that John must of made it up independently
What do you think the passage above means when it says “Immanuel which means God is with us” after saying that Mary is with child from the holy spirit?
Don’t look now but Matthew if you didn’t know is a synoptic Gospel (probably still trying to find Friday in a concordance) so doesn’t matter squidly if Jesus is not recorded in any speech saying he is the son of God Matthew tells you right up front in Matthew he is
Borrow a Bible maybe?
LikeLike
I’m getting embarrassed for all of you now. Just blunder after blunder after blunder. I think Arch will vote yes if I ask if I should ease off you guys for awhile and allow you to regroup.
Nate is still in the lead with blunders but a few of you are catching up fast.
IN keeping with Nate and William’s hilarity of absolutely not talking about knowledge because tech knowledge ahem is apparently not knowledge maybe Gary can say he wasn’t talking about the Friday at all just the day before saturday……..lol 😉
Regroup People
LikeLike
Now there was a good and righteous man named Joseph, who, though a member of the council, 51 had not agreed to their plan and action. He came from the Jewish town of Arimathea, and he was waiting expectantly for the kingdom of God. 52 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid it in a rock-hewn tomb where no one had ever been laid. 54 It was the day of Preparation, and the sabbath was beginning.[o] 55 The women who had come with him from Galilee followed, and they saw the tomb and how his body was laid. 56 Then they returned, and prepared spices and ointments.
On the sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
Luke 23:50-56
The Sabbath ALWAYS begins on Friday at sunset. “It was the Day of Preparation” means that Jesus was crucified between sunset Thursday and sunset Friday. So Jesus body was in the tomb Friday and Saturday nights. That’s only TWO nights.
Jesus made a mistake or the whole story is a fabrication.
LikeLike
“The Sabbath ALWAYS begins on Friday at sunset. “”
Oh vey such ignorance. I guess its too much to ask for you to know what you are talking about
Like I said do you guys wish to regroup?
Don’t worry Gary. its even possible one of your friends will jump in and stop you before you embarrassing yourself further.
LikeLike
(Exodus 20:9-10) In accordance with the Jewish calendar, the Sabbath begins on Friday evening at sunset and ends on Saturday night with the appearance of three stars. All Jewish days begin at sunset.
Shabbat Customs | Reform Judaism
http://www.reformjudaism.org/shabbat-customs
LikeLike
Dude stop embarrassing yourself. YOU have no clue
Let me put you out of your misery and not prolong the agony.
Jews had several Sabbaths that went with their various religious observances (one of them right around this time – the passover) NOT just the weekly sabbath. Your claim that Sabbaths were always the day before Saturday is patently false for anyone that has done even an ounce of research. You clearly and obviously never do.
Feel free to google it
LikeLike
Here….read and educate yourself before acting like you know what you are talking about
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/specialshabbat.html
LikeLike