I was listening to a recent speech that Matt Dillahunty gave in Australia (listen here if you’re interested), and in part of it he brought up the story of the Tower of Babel, found in Genesis 11. It’s a story I’ve thought about several times since leaving Christianity. I don’t recall everything Matt said about it, though I know I’ll be making some of the same points he did. I haven’t been a Christian for about 5 years now, and it’s sometimes hard to imagine that I ever believed stories like this one, though I definitely did. And a number of other conservative Christians do as well.
A few days ago, I asked my wife if she remembered what God was angry about in this story, and she gave the same reason that I thought: God was angry because people were being prideful. In case you’ve forgotten, the crux of the story is that several generations after the flood, mankind was growing numerous, and they all had one common language. They decided to build a tower that would reach Heaven (see how prideful?), so God put a stop to it by confusing their language. This caused the various groups to split up, each person going along with whomever could understand him or her.
However, after looking at the details a bit more, it turns out that my recollection was a bit off. First, the people weren’t actually being prideful at all. Instead of trying to build a tower to Heaven — God’s abode — they were just trying to build a tall one to make it easier to stay in one geographic area:
Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. 2 And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. 3 And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.”
— Genesis 11:1-4
The phrase “in the heavens” is just talking about the sky, not the realm of God. For just a moment though, let’s pretend that they really had been trying to reach God with their tower. Why would that be such a bad thing? Doesn’t the Bible repeatedly tell us to seek after God? Furthermore, would they have succeeded? On September 12, 2013, Voyager 1 actually left our solar system. In all those miles, it didn’t bump into Heaven. No earth-based tower would ever run the risk of reaching God’s home. So not only were the people not attempting that, even if they had been it wouldn’t have succeeded, and it actually would have been flattering toward God.
So if God wasn’t angry at them for being prideful, why did he confuse their language and force them apart? The next few verses give us the answer:
And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. 6 And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.
— Genesis 11:5-9
Essentially, God was just being a jerk. He was like a kid stirring up an anthill. I mean, God forbid (literally) that people advance technologically, right? Wouldn’t want them discovering things like the germ theory of disease, after all. And why prevent wars by keeping people within the same culture? Much better, I guess, to create different cultures so mistrust and bigotry can form. Furthermore, if this was such a problem at the time, why hasn’t he stopped us again? We’ve figured out ways to overcome language and culture barriers now. We’ve done so much more than just “build a tall tower.” God’s motivation in this story simply makes no sense at all.
However, if you step back for a moment and stop trying to view this as literal history with an actual god, things become clearer. Imagine living thousands of years ago and trying to make sense of the world around you. You think the world is flat and that the sun revolves around it. You don’t understand the cause of thunder storms, earthquakes, or volcanoes. You can’t imagine how animals and humans got here without some kind of creator. And if there’s a creator, why didn’t he make life easier? Why does he allow disease and starvation? There are so many difficult questions that just have no answer. And so people began to formulate answers as best they could. It’s easy to see that one of those questions may have been “why didn’t God (the gods) give us all the same language?” And so they came up with an answer.
Looking at it from that perspective, it’s much easier to understand how a story like this came to be. These people were dealing with the world as they saw it — and to them, the only reason they could think of for God not wanting everyone to have the same language, is that they would accomplish too much. They had no idea that humanity would one day find a way around that problem, rendering their explanation invalid.
Speaking as someone who grew up believing that stories like this were actual history, I know how easy it is to just go along under that assumption without question, especially if those around us believe as we do. It’s not stupidity; it’s either isolation and ignorance, or it’s stubbornness. We can help the isolated and ignorant by just being available to discuss these things when they come up. And with the Bible, there are plenty of examples to be found.
Finding Truth 
LikeLiked by 3 people
You know, I kinda enjoy the exchanges between Mike and Arch. I think it’s nice to have Christians throwing insults at atheists similar to how some of us have been insulting Unklee.
I much rather have this insult match with some arguments in between versus the full meltdown of Crown.
LikeLike
“Hey, listen Mikey – I need to hit the rack, and I have to go out of town tomorrow, but you just go ahead and rant, your blitherings will still be here when I get back.
”
Nah…Nate doesn’t have the guts to continue keeping up strong posts against his position. He usually comes up with some contortion mess of a distinction without merit to absolve himself but the Grrrrrl character can post the most vile of things – mind you I love the kid for exposing Nate’s duplicity. So more power to him. I’m not complaining.
I’ll be hitting the rack soon myself catch you in another few months….maybe 😉
“Oh, and I’ll take Krause’s universe from nothing LONG before I’d even remotely consider your “a little desert storm god named YHWH did it”!”
I do love a confession that i was right so thanks for that. I’m just amused you wrote that as if it was something I would not welcome hearing I have no problem with you accepting the truth of what I said. I already knew you will swallow anything supernatural as long as it not God. So as they say….its all goooood.
LikeLike
“You know, I kinda enjoy the exchanges between Mike and Arch. I think it’s nice to have Christians throwing insults at atheists similar to how some of us have been insulting Unklee. ”
Give me a break, Powell. UnkleE has dished out just as much as he has received. I wouldn’t expend too many tears and sniffles for him.
LikeLike
“. He plagued us ”
True I did plague you similar like how I just plagued you on Finkelstein, your openness to Kruauss’s supernatural claims and definitely plagued your nonsense that a mention of 12 offsprings must be tied to astrology because you beg for it.
LikeLike
@Gary
I agree with you, but I guess it’s a different style? At no point was unklee being rude. You may accuse him of being pretentious/smarmy etc but I would find it hard to call him sarcastic even.
LikeLiked by 2 people
“Give me a break, Powell. UnkleE has dished out just as much as he has received. I wouldn’t expend too many tears and sniffles for him.”
We share something in common. I share no tears and sniffles taking your points apart and watching you incapable of answering anything on the issues raised because you had no clue of what you were talking about. I was a little embarassed for you but it passed quickly
LikeLike
“You know, I kinda enjoy the exchanges between Mike and Arch. I think it’s nice to have Christians throwing insults at atheists similar to how some of us have been insulting Unklee.
”
Theres a communication issue that many religious people face now. They have atheists calling them morons and stupid and a lot of time because of their religion they feel they have to be gentle in their response and not point out the stupidity in the other party. i’m sympathetic to their concerns but not pointing them out in return creates an imbalance in message and gives the attackers of religion the sense that our failure to point out their own stupidity means they do not possess a great deal of it.
LikeLike
@Mike,
You know the funny thing? There are atheists saying the same thing about christians. I can imagine Ark repeating the same thing word for word.
Perhaps I just like to see some balance. Makes it easier for true neutral (if that’s even possible) to decide based on facts and less emotions.
LikeLike
Powell,
UnkleE isn’t sarcastic???
Did you read his “Gary Method” rant?
Whatever.
Anyway, I would encourage everyone, Christian and skeptic, to read what Jewish rabbis say today and have said for the last 2,000 years about the messianic claim of Jesus. It is very interesting reading. Yes, Christians have a rebuttal to every point, but listen to both sides with an open mind.
Is it really possible that Jews do not understand their own Scriptures in regards to the qualifications for the Jewish Messiah? They either must be very dense or very stubborn, hard-hearted, and sinful (wicked) people. As a fundamentalist, I was taught the latter about Jews. Maybe this is true, but maybe (and probably) it is a trumped-up excuse by Christians to explain away the fact that only a very small minority of Jews have ever believed Jesus’ messianic claim.
LikeLike
“You know the funny thing? There are atheists saying the same thing about christians. I can imagine Ark repeating the same thing word for word.”
That is no doubt true but it is not a central message of christianity, judaism or Muslims that atheist are ignorant, stupid or anti science. Its pretty hard to claim that a central message of new atheism right now is not that religious people are dumb and antiscience. Judging by the message its a KEY message for them
“Perhaps I just like to see some balance. Makes it easier for true neutral ”
I don’t think you will very often because to be honest (and not just inflammatory) this blog is more about finding kindred spirits to “rubber stamp” each other and their decisions. Like I have said before its more like a gathering for ex-employees of a company to get together and moan and groan about how the employee (their church or religion) had it all wrong, was really evil should be shut down.
the last thing that ex employee group wants to hear is that the company is not that bad or worse the company was fine but they were the issue.
LikeLike
“Is it really possible that Jews do not understand their own Scriptures in regards to the qualifications for the Jewish Messiah? They either must be very dense or very stubborn, hard-hearted, and sinful (wicked) people.”
You were not even able to answer my points to that last claim but you are back showing you again you do not know what you are talking about. How is it possible for some Jews to be wrong about their own scriptures? how about the simple fact that their own scriptures REPEATEDLY states they were wrong about their understandings of God and the law and umm their scriptures.
Its like you have never read the prophets of the OT. From Isaiah 1 to Zechariah the message is that the Jews lacked understanding , were sin prone, twisted the law and neglected their law (scriptures).
That not to say gentiles didn’t or wouldn’t have either but when Jewish inspired texts indicate that being Jewish did not convey superior understanding of God the law or the scriptures claiming that Jews have unquestioned authority interpreting those scriptures that criticize them is total nonsense
LikeLike
As to whether Jews were stubborn ( but no more so than gentiles I would say) You can start your reading as I said in Isaiah 1. Heres a taste
Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth!
For the Lord has spoken:
“I reared children and brought them up,
but they have rebelled against me.
3 The ox knows its master,
the donkey its owner’s manger,
but Israel does not know,
my people do not understand.”
4 Woe to the sinful nation,
a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,
children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the Lord;
they have spurned the Holy One of Israel
and turned their backs on him.
Nothing in jewish scriptures backs your claim that being Jewish gives special abilities to understand God or Jewish scriptures.
LikeLike
@Gary
To be honest I was shocked when I saw the “gary method”. Not his proudest moment I would say.
That’s why I did say I agree with you, that Unklee does dish out some himself. Whether he has taken it as much or perhaps more I would say is subjective.
Regardless, I though the name of the game is whoever gets angry first loses?
LikeLike
“Regardless, I though the name of the game is whoever gets angry first loses?”
Oh Sweet! My records not that bad then.:)
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Hayseed – You have a record? 33? 45? 78??
LikeLiked by 1 person
Arch, unless Hayden is over 50, he may not know what those numbers represent. 🙂
I’m sure Mike on the other hand could explain those into a reason to believe anything in the Bible however.
LikeLiked by 1 person
this could all be settled very easily. We can even use a method that the bible says god and one of his prophets used.
We can set up an alter, and each believer can take their turn praying to see whose god lights the alter first. I do not think anyone’s god will do it, though. Perhaps they’re tired or on a trip, but i think it’s because they’re not real.
Maybe god was angry at those in babel because of their pride… but then why doesn’t he confuse prideful people today? Maybe he changed their languages out of sport and for amusement, or perhaps god just didnt like tall towers (although he’s willing to let them be created today), it’s just that it doesnt seem consistent with the rest of history or present day – but i suppose god can do what god wants.
the real issue in my mind is that this story isnt given to us by god, but by an author who claims to have divine knowledge. the author just claims… and we’re to buy that? I dont trust him, for reasons that should be obvious. ABlacksmanagain and others may feel like I am wrong in that conclusion, which is fine as i think they are wrong to buy it, but if they were honest (and they may be) then at the very least they could understand my skepticism regarding the accuracy of a story such as this.
LikeLike
fixed my name
LikeLike
“That’s why I did say I agree with you, that Unklee does dish out some himself. Whether he has taken it as much or perhaps more I would say is subjective.”
and You’ve stumbled upon why the little group here loves me so. they all know I give out better than they can muster for me to receive
Exhibit A………
LikeLike
“I’m sure Mike on the other hand could explain those into a reason to believe anything in the Bible however.”
being sure on anything implies a sufficient knowledge of any subject that you do not possess. I would see no significance in those numbers but I can’t help but notice that your avatar is still an apparent metaphor for how far knowledge soars above your head.
🙂
LikeLike
“Maybe god was angry at those in babel because of their pride… but then why doesn’t he confuse prideful people today”
You make no point. If you read the text you would see the action was taken for what more they could have done not just for the action already taken. Language and nationality still divide the planet today and at every turn of history. it rather effectively divides many people even in the same country (India is notorious for its disparity in part based on language). So there is no point to be made that God should do again what already is in place.
“but if they were honest (and they may be) then at the very least they could understand my skepticism regarding the accuracy of a story such as this.”
and who said they didn’t understand your skepticism. You think that understanding should some how equate to validation. Many of you like to insert yourself into a debate as if anyone really cares what your position is. In a debate its about the issues not whether you are skeptical or in Arch’s case what he will or will not accept.
The tower of babel is light stuff. Nothing special or remarkably hard to believe. Languages DID diverge. Only a dolt in linguistics can’t see that in even present day languages. You only have your back up at the concept because a text mentioned God had something to do with it. The word “God” has you all jumping about at absurdities but you can’t address the absurdities of materialism explaining ultimate reality.
Short sighted to the bitter end.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’ve never really put much stock into the “universe from nothing” theory. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong, it just doesn’t seem like the most plausible explanation in my view. I think the eternal multiverse or the eternal oscillating universe theories make more sense. The atheists will cringe, but I would even adopt the eternal conscious mind theory before I would adopt the “universe from nothing” theory. I just don’t see how absolute nothingness could ever produce anything (to be fair I don’t think Lawrence Krauss holds this view – his version of “nothing” still has “something”).
If nothing creates nothing and something exists, then I think it’s safe to conclude that something has always existed.
LikeLike
“Arch, unless Hayden is over 50, he may not know what those numbers represent.” – He probably thinks I’m describing a girl’s measurements.
LikeLike
“(to be fair I don’t think Lawrence Krauss holds this view – his version of “nothing” still has “something”)” – Yes, Gary, it relates to Quantum Mechanics and the idea that virtual particles are continually popping in and out of existence.
LikeLike