Interestingly, Nate, the very first explanation on the link you offered, under Expositor’s Greek Testament, says essentially the same thing I did.
Consequently, it is arbitrary to suspect 1 Thessalonians 2:14 (15)–16 as a later interpolation, written after 70 A.D. (cf. the present writer’s Hist. New Testament, pp. 625, 626). But the closing sentence of 1 Thessalonians 2:16 has all the appearance of a marginal gloss, written after the tragic days of the siege in 70 A.D.
While the word “arbitrary” is used, it makes little sense that 14-15 would be written by one author (Paul) and 16 not – the lines clearly go together contextually.
Also note, Nate, that this is not a prediction or a threat – the author is not saying that his god’s wrath WILL overtake them, he’s saying, “God’s wrath HAS overtaken them at last.”
Other than the destruction of Jerusalem (AD 70) or, less likely, the fall of Masada (AD 73), to what else could he have been referring? MASADA
Arch, I have had a look at Gary Shogren’s commentary, Zondervan Exegetical Commentary on 1 and 2 Thessalonians. He comments:
This section is not a later insertion or digression on Paul’s part. It clearly parallels the materiel in chapter 1; the Thessalonian idol worshipers received the gospel; the Jews in Judea did not; rather, the unbelieving Jews brutally treated all Christians, going so far as to try to prevent the spread of the gospel.
However Shogren does acknowledge the theory:
According to one theory, 1 Thess 2:13(14)-16 is an “interpolation,” an anti-Jewish message that found its way into the letter some time after Paul’s death. B.A. Pearson’s 1971 article has been he touchstone for discussion in recent decades. He argues that the text was interpolated early enough into the manuscript transmission so that the original text did not survive. He takes the statement to be some scribe’s thoughts about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
Against Pearson one should consider several things. First, the syntax of the paragraph fits within its context. Second, Pearson must assume that the divine “wrath” refers to A.D. 70, not to some event in Paul’s lifetime or the eschatological judgment. Third, he disregards the way in which the passage fits within the letter as a whole, with its themes of persecution and imitation. Fourth, he cannot account for the fact that all the ancient manuscripts and versions contain this paragraph. There is little solid proof that 1 Thess 2:13-16 did not come from Paul’s pen. We are left to wrestle with its meaning as we do with other difficult passages.
Barry – I don’t know if you heard or not, but TA is shutting down. Umar has started a new site, but I have heard that it’s rather lame. Yesterday, I invited Ed to drop by, but IT WOULD HELP IF NATE WOULD START A NEW TOPIC!
I don’t think that the religious should be forced to perform any marriages, or do really do anything (with few exceptions), that is counter to their religion.
William, I don’t think churches should be forced to perform any marriages either.
however, I do believe that businesses that bake wedding cakes, or make floral arrangements or wedding photographers, etc. do not have a right to discriminate based on “religious freedom”.
Love Your Enemies
LUKE 6…29″Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also;
and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. 30″Give to EVERYONE who asks of you,
and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back.
31″Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.…
that messages is very clear, so for any person claiming to be a “Christian” says that they have the right to deny a service or good to someone due to their religious beliefs, they are certainly not behaving as a Christian.
I also think that those that refuse service or goods to anyone based on false claims of religious belief should be penalized to the full extent of the law.
if someone calls themselves a christian,
yet refuses to do what jesus says they should do,
they aren’t a christian.
fake christians do not get to have religious freedom rights.
Yes, Arch, I did hear about it. Got the email this morning, in fact. I wonder if it has to do (at least in part) with the whole twitter account hijack not too long ago.
I have no idea. I joined when Morgan Matthew had it, but it has changed hands several times since then. According to figures I saw, it was only pulling in $500 per year, and I know that Ning charges $65 (minimum) per month to host a website.
Paulie, we’re on the same page then. Baking a cake has no religious significance and if it does, I am wondering if they refused their bakery to all sinners, or just homosexual cake eaters.
But also, I suspect these Christians would cry persecution if the tables were turned and they were refused a service merely because they were christian.
Complaining about being persecuted (facing a fine) for having persecuted someone (refusing a service) loses it’s steam a little…
well, that is very true, every one that walks thru the bakeries door is a “sinner” in a biblical world view.
and that is a very good point, these “religious freedom laws” can most certainly be turned around and used against Christians.
the anti-discrimination laws that christians complain about protecting lgbtq also protects christians
now I was only joking with arch about forcing the three churches to provide a marriage ceremony. they can be as bigoted and hateful as they want in their houses of worship, but if they want to own a business that serves the public, different story..
Plus they need a business license to operate, and it strikes me that renewal of a license should involve maintaining certain standards of behavior toward their customers, potential or actual. Enough complaints, bye-bye license.
So I was approached by a coworker the other day. She is 17 years my junior and a fellow artist who enjoys seeing a number of my productions as they come along. She asked me if I thought red wine would be an interesting medium to use. I replied that I thought it would be – particularly art of a religious significance with regards to Christianity and the various references of wine in scripture. This got me thinking: I want to produce a crucifixion scene with it just to see how well it would work. I think there’s a lot of potential there, and since my town as a little art gallery for local artists to display their work, I could build on that. What do you all think?
By the way, some of my work is posted on Instagram if you’d like to take a look. The name is badamson2. I haven’t posted in a while, and have more art on the way.
Finding Truth 
I see that your link makes a similar point, taken from Burton Mack’s book Who Wrote the New Testament? I have that book… I really should reread it.
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I said, AD 72, but it was actually 70, wasn’t it?
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Interestingly, Nate, the very first explanation on the link you offered, under Expositor’s Greek Testament, says essentially the same thing I did.
While the word “arbitrary” is used, it makes little sense that 14-15 would be written by one author (Paul) and 16 not – the lines clearly go together contextually.
LikeLike
Also note, Nate, that this is not a prediction or a threat – the author is not saying that his god’s wrath WILL overtake them, he’s saying, “God’s wrath HAS overtaken them at last.”
Other than the destruction of Jerusalem (AD 70) or, less likely, the fall of Masada (AD 73), to what else could he have been referring?
MASADA
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Arch, I have had a look at Gary Shogren’s commentary, Zondervan Exegetical Commentary on 1 and 2 Thessalonians. He comments:
However Shogren does acknowledge the theory:
Pearson’s article can be found here:
Click to access 1Thess%202.13-16%20(Pearson).pdf
Shogren’s conclusion is:
I find Shogren’s arguments persuasive.
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ARCH, thanks for the Minchin video, of course I love it and will most likely be singing it out loud, very soon, I live next door to a catholic church.
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“I live next door to a catholic church.” – So there really IS a hell —
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oh, it gets worse,
on the other corner is a baptist church and the opposite corner is a methodist church.
hell on steroids.
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Have you considered investing in a heavy-duty amp and omni-directional speaker system, for use during Sunday Morning Service?
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http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/03/hate-wins-oregon-state-issues-gag-order-against-opposing-gay-marriage/ NO, But I have considered forcing all three churches to perform my wedding ceremonies, OR ELSE!!!!!!
(that is if I can find three victims, uh, I meant spouses.)
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The ink is barely dry on the same-sex marriage decision, and you’re already pushing polygamy?
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lol, i’m going to have the constitution amended so I can marry my car.
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Assuming it’s not an electric, it has an exhaust pipe, it could work.
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SaintPaulieGirrrl, you must live somewhere between the 5th and 9th circle of hell.
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Barry – I don’t know if you heard or not, but TA is shutting down. Umar has started a new site, but I have heard that it’s rather lame. Yesterday, I invited Ed to drop by, but IT WOULD HELP IF NATE WOULD START A NEW TOPIC!
LikeLike
I don’t think that the religious should be forced to perform any marriages, or do really do anything (with few exceptions), that is counter to their religion.
LikeLiked by 1 person
William, I don’t think churches should be forced to perform any marriages either.
however, I do believe that businesses that bake wedding cakes, or make floral arrangements or wedding photographers, etc. do not have a right to discriminate based on “religious freedom”.
Love Your Enemies
LUKE 6…29″Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also;
and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. 30″Give to EVERYONE who asks of you,
and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back.
31″Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.…
that messages is very clear, so for any person claiming to be a “Christian” says that they have the right to deny a service or good to someone due to their religious beliefs, they are certainly not behaving as a Christian.
I also think that those that refuse service or goods to anyone based on false claims of religious belief should be penalized to the full extent of the law.
LikeLiked by 1 person
if someone calls themselves a christian,
yet refuses to do what jesus says they should do,
they aren’t a christian.
fake christians do not get to have religious freedom rights.
LikeLike
Yes, Arch, I did hear about it. Got the email this morning, in fact. I wonder if it has to do (at least in part) with the whole twitter account hijack not too long ago.
LikeLike
I have no idea. I joined when Morgan Matthew had it, but it has changed hands several times since then. According to figures I saw, it was only pulling in $500 per year, and I know that Ning charges $65 (minimum) per month to host a website.
LikeLike
Paulie, we’re on the same page then. Baking a cake has no religious significance and if it does, I am wondering if they refused their bakery to all sinners, or just homosexual cake eaters.
But also, I suspect these Christians would cry persecution if the tables were turned and they were refused a service merely because they were christian.
Complaining about being persecuted (facing a fine) for having persecuted someone (refusing a service) loses it’s steam a little…
LikeLiked by 1 person
well, that is very true, every one that walks thru the bakeries door is a “sinner” in a biblical world view.
and that is a very good point, these “religious freedom laws” can most certainly be turned around and used against Christians.
the anti-discrimination laws that christians complain about protecting lgbtq also protects christians
now I was only joking with arch about forcing the three churches to provide a marriage ceremony. they can be as bigoted and hateful as they want in their houses of worship, but if they want to own a business that serves the public, different story..
LikeLiked by 1 person
Plus they need a business license to operate, and it strikes me that renewal of a license should involve maintaining certain standards of behavior toward their customers, potential or actual. Enough complaints, bye-bye license.
LikeLiked by 2 people
So I was approached by a coworker the other day. She is 17 years my junior and a fellow artist who enjoys seeing a number of my productions as they come along. She asked me if I thought red wine would be an interesting medium to use. I replied that I thought it would be – particularly art of a religious significance with regards to Christianity and the various references of wine in scripture. This got me thinking: I want to produce a crucifixion scene with it just to see how well it would work. I think there’s a lot of potential there, and since my town as a little art gallery for local artists to display their work, I could build on that. What do you all think?
LikeLiked by 1 person
By the way, some of my work is posted on Instagram if you’d like to take a look. The name is badamson2. I haven’t posted in a while, and have more art on the way.
LikeLiked by 2 people