927 thoughts on “What Makes Something Right or Wrong?”
Any Christian who condones or excuses the Christian god’s attitude toward slavery in both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible has no business preaching objective morality to anyone.
Nate: “Pastor Bill” has responded to your questions…if you can call it responding. He seems stuck in the paradigm that the Bible, specifically, the King James Bible, cannot be wrong, no matter how much evidence to the contrary is presented to him.
“at times, god wanted them to kill everything and babies except for virgin girls, which they were to keep for themselves. yay, morality.
Yawn… we have discussed the claims you make against the morality of God in many of Nate’s posts. Whats new? In regard to God nothing has changed. Same moral code. He still reserves the right for who lives and dies. Every theist knows this. He is God ( so boring sometimes to break down the simplest of things to you) No theist make the ridiculous claim as you people do that God is changing his morality when HE Decides someone must live or die. He is the giver and owner of life. Murder is wrong because life does not belong to us as humans.
So as we all know and have debated several times sure there are a few instances in the OT (thousands of years ago) where GOD says (based on his knowledge of their hearts, their future etc) I determine these people must go. Now if god went around telling people in the nt that they can decide who lives and dies then you would have a point but as usual on that you never do
“slavery too – not condemned in the bible. a christian slave owner in the NT wasn’t commanded to free his slaves, but to be a good master. Bible morality, yay.”
I realize you people rarely read the bible but even I am surprised by your lack of knowledge of the NT. I mean you are quite given to being dishonest but sometimes you also just seem to e totally oblivious to any verse that isn’t an alleged proof text for your claims.
The NT did the unthinkable and elevated every slave to equal status with their masters in the eyes of God
Ephesians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Masters were not to even treat “slaves” as they used to but fairly and righteously as brothers
Ephesians 6:9
“And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.”
Col 4:1
Colossians 4:1 (KJV)
1 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.
Paul writes letters on behalf of a slave as a brother in Christ but all such things you know nothing of
Jesus addresses almost none of the social issues of the day but focuses on whats behind them. Slaves were equal to all men in the NT and were to be treated as brothers and love was to be shown to all. Its a message that ended Slavery when Wilberforce INSPIRED BY THE NT moved for its abolishment
A historical fact that renders all the claims against the NT agreeing with slave practices of the day (because they kept them in name only) nothing but blather without knowledge.
LOL…Gary whatever. I don’t worry about what you say too much. Its after all…so you. What I wrote is plain as day.
“and no despite your usual no study babbling the OT Torah which the jews lived by never demanded as the will of God people to have slaves.”
There it is. never claimed that the OT didn’t allow it . Never said slaves were not kept. I said GOd never demanded in the torah as his will that people keep slaves.
I still await a single verse that contradicts my claim. None of those presented indicates that people had to take slaves to keep the law. Its babbling nonsense.. Why don’t you try that claim with one of your Jew fiends who you say know their book
If you are either too stupid, too ignorant or too dishonest not to see what was said then ….ummmmmmm why would I be surprised?
Its nothing I have not said before of most of you. 😉
“No theist make the ridiculous claim as you people do that God is changing his morality when HE Decides someone must live or die. He is the giver and owner of life. Murder is wrong because life does not belong to us as humans.” ABacksmanagain
oh, i didnt mean to imply that i thought theists think that god changes his morality. not at all, i just think that when theists are presented with acts that are obviously immoral, that their god commanded and engaged in, that they’re forced to sat that killing babies and stealing virgin girls isnt immoral, or else god would do immoral things, and we cant have that.
and if god can kill what he creates, that sounds too much like pro-choice to me, and i dont readily fall into that category.
so morality, to theists, is an arbitrary things depended on the feelings of god at a particular time.
but even if the bible is lacking, it doesnt prove evolution caused morality is right, just that the bible is lacking.
“and if god can kill what he creates, that sounds too much like pro-choice to me, and i dont readily fall into that category.
so morality, to theists, is an arbitrary things depended on the feelings of god at a particular time.”
You always wax into silliness WIlliam. You are begging because theists don’t subscribe to your foolish definition of God’s morality that its arbitrary. To illustrate the stupidity of your ideas observe.
I went to the store today and bought a shirt. I will take it out and wear it. Its mine. It is not immoral for me to wear my own shirt. If someone comes into my home and takes it without my permission and does the same thing I did – wear it – then thats wrong.
Why? It does not belong to them.
Saying that God cannot take back any life that belongs o him or he is being inconsistent is just immense stupidity not worth responding to very much.
Its akin to saying that if a thief cannot take my shirt and wear it then neither can I without being immoral.
“in the eyes of god, you are as shirts, to be worn or burned alive, as he desires”
that’s not weird. nothing immoral about that, it’s just odd.
“becomest thou as shirts, and ye shall be worn by god among the angels in heaven. Great is thy wardrobe, O God of shirts, and greater still are thine cloaks. Amen.”
“except your bible doesn’t compare people to shirts in god’s eyes, but children.
so I dont know what you’re talking about. i thought we were talking about the bible”
ugggh…..sorry but you are a teenager or have serious mental issues. Seriously you can’t follow a simple analogy without derrr….uh?
Only have time for adults – Back on ignore
but you and Nate should ask yourself whats the big deal with children that stops God from seeing their future and who they are and would be? Hitler was a child so it still goes back to you not having a clue about what they would become.
“and god rent the wicked like a shirt off his own back, spotted with mire.”
“I am the lord thy god, and i shall wear a shirt that pleases me, and rend a shirt that pleases me not. Thou shalt not adorn me with shirts from made of polyester, nor of shirts sold at aeropostale.”
“but you and Nate should ask yourself whats the big deal with children that stops God from seeing their future and who they are and would be? Hitler was a child so it still goes back to you not having a clue about what they would become.” – Ablacksmanagain
ok, but still sounds like you’re giving credence to pro-choice.
you should ask yourself why you should believe the claims of the men the wrote the bible. really. and then ask yourself why you continue to dodge the big questions and resort to tangential issues when they arise.
It doesn’t surprise me you missed the point I raised about the primitive societies because you don’t wish to learn anything (you already know because you believe that your god has produced an objective moral standard and will tolerate no examination of the veracity of that belief. You also seem able to grasp that evolution if true – and it is – is fatal to your belief justifications and so you have to pretend you – YOU! – with your multiple and advanced degrees in biology and genetics to rank you as at least as expert as the thousands of working and productive biologists and geneticists that create applications, therapies, and technologies that work for everyone everywhere all the time who are so obviously and badly deluded that they dare disagree with you – are capable of determining this entire branch of science to be wanting. Aren’t you the clever one!).
I understand that you only want to defend your beliefs rather than align them with reality. That’s fine. You’re allowed to believe whatever you want. But don’t then assume that they are correct. They’re not. They rely on you maintaining and exercising a colossal hubris and arrogance. If, not when, you actually want to learn something, I’ll contribute. Until then, you are nothing but a pious black hole swallowing my time and effort.
The issue is not, Mike, whether your god commanded the Hebrews to have slaves, the issue is that he tolerated it and condoned it. Even if you personally have no slaves, if you support the act of slavery in any way, you are committing an immoral act. If you don’t see that, then you have an immoral belief system.
Are you willing to condemn your God, Yahweh/Jesus, for condoning, permitting, and refusing to condemn and outlaw the ownership of slaves, Mike? If not, you are just as immoral as your god.
Doesn’t surprise me you still are claiming you have one despite your argument being totally dismantled.
Let me see. can he muster any counter to my counter points?
Hmm rehtoric and bluster
then um more rhetoric
oh well there is this
” If, not when, you actually want to learn something, I’ll contribute. Until then, you are nothing but a pious black hole swallowing my time and effort.”
as fine an admission of running way and being unable to back up his points as I have ever seen
Assume the answer is yes from now on and save typing that same question whenever you can’t answer my questions..
every day just about every other species of animal out there is killing something living and in most cases for personal survival, self interest and even procreation and doing quite well. Claiming all of sudden with one species the same killing that works for all other species suddenly becomes a disadvantage to be selected against is just special pleading
“There would be pressures in both directions. As you say, if you murder someone to get what you want (your neighbor’s wife, perhaps), then you’ll father children with her and he won’t. However, the rest of society will quickly end your life when the opportunity arises, which keeps you from fathering as many children as you would.”
Good night man. think!! The only reason why society will hone in on you is because of an already existing moral outrage. If in fact they are doing the same thing then you go back to a real scenario that exists in many other species devoid of such morality. In many species the male will end up killing a “suitor” to the female and accordingly in your theory been awarded with an ongoing gene “transfer” . Thats already been shown to be advantageous. What you need to do is show an advantage for morality in a world without it.
” Thus, in our history, we’ve seen people who have gotten away with this behavior (like powerful despots), but we’ve also seen movements toward greater equality and protection of the weak.”
and again you make no point. The issue is not what works out for you once there is a moral code its how having a moral code evolve in the absence of any at all does. powerful despots get taken out BECAUSE there is an existing moral code that rallies forces against him. In the absence of that no forces would rally against one despot and the strongest wins just as they now do for every other species.
So you have still yet to show how morality evolves or even how any benefit for one poor creature or sets of creatures would have an advantage in a world at the time devoid of any. Human history and experience rebuff your assertions. In severely immoral societies where its killed or be killed you are at a distinct DIS advantage if you are the one person that won’t take pre-emptive action. In such cases outside moral forces are what ends up saving you. If there were none the poor and the weak always lose.
“The issue is not, Mike, whether your god commanded the Hebrews to have slaves, the issue is that he tolerated it and condoned it.”
Really you mean you didn’t half quote me just a while ago and claim I was lying as the issue? Hmmmmmm….no that claim and issue is still there so look whose lying now about what the issue was???
You always try and half quote and get blown up when the full quote comes to light. You do that with the Bible as well…tsk…tsk
“Are you willing to condemn your God, Yahweh/Jesus, for condoning, permitting, and refusing to condemn and outlaw the ownership of slaves, Mike? ”
God has already condemned ALL sin from as far back as Genesis and people like you claim sin is not even real and morality changes with the times so what do you have to whine about? According to you its cultural and determined by society so you would be all for slavery if it made a strong enough societal come back (after being smashed by Christians on the basis of Christian teaching) or you are “he with fork tongue that talks out of both sides his mouth”.
Fortunately for you God is allowing quite a bit of sin . It won’t last forever. You have time to repent but when he’s done asking it won’t be pretty
Acts 17:
30″Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness
amazingly the charge from the same group will be God is doing too much destroying of sin and he should be more accommodating like……..um…… the good old days.
“God has already condemned ALL sin from as far back as Genesis”
I wasn’t talking about man’s sin, Mike, I was talking about YOUR GOD’S sin; your god’s wicked, immoral, repulsive, barbaric behavior.
Will you condemn your god’s wicked, immoral sins, Mike? Prove to us that you really do believe in unchanging, objective moral standards by condemning the sins of your god who’s behavior violates the moral standards of every major religion on the planet.
We are born into a world of good, which we did not create. Not just material things, but ideals, like justice, liberty, and equality. And spiritual values, like courage, joy, and compassion.
We benefit from what others, in good faith, have left for us. In return, we sacrifice selfish interest when necessary to preserve this good for others. For the sake of our children, and our children’s children, we seek to understand, to serve, to protect, and perhaps, humbly, to enhance this greater good.
It is an act of faith to live by moral principle when the greedy prosper by dishonest means. It is an act of faith to stand up for right when the crowd is headed the wrong way. It is an act of faith to return good for evil.
We have seen Hell. We have seen gang cultures whose rite of passage is an act of mayhem or murder. We have seen racial slavery, persecution, and genocide. We have seen revenge spread violence through whole communities.
We envision Heaven, where people live in peace and every person is valued. It can only be reached when each person seeks good for himself only through means that are consistent with achieving good for all.
If God exists, then that is His command. If God does not exist, then that is what we must command of ourselves and of each other. Either way, whether we achieve Heaven or Hell is up to us.
The point of God is to make good sacred. We trust that, each time we put the best good for all above our own selfish interest, the world becomes a better place, for all of us, and our children, and their children.
What you think you ‘totally dismantled’ was not the content of my comment. Your hand waving is insufficient although I’m quite sure you believe differently. So let me ask you – the greatest self-professed expert in biology I have ever encountered, why do we have mirror neurons and what is their function?
lol mikey claims “slavery was “smashed by Christians on the basis of Christian teaching”
more Christians bullshit,
slavery was smashed by a civil war that cost the lives of approx. 620,000 men.
Over the decades and with the growth of slavery throughout the South, Baptist and Methodist ministers gradually changed their messages to accommodate the institution. After 1830, white Southerners argued for the compatibility of Christianity and slavery, with a multitude of both Old and New Testament citations.[99] They promoted Christianity as encouraging better treatment of slaves and argued for a paternalistic approach. In the 1840s and 50s, the issue of accepting slavery split the nation’s largest religious denominations (the Methodist, Baptist and Presbyterian churches) into separate Northern and Southern organizations.[100]
Southern slaves generally attended their masters’ white churches, where they often outnumbered the white congregants. They were usually permitted only to sit in the back or in the balcony. They listened to white preachers, who emphasized the obligation of slaves to keep in their place, and acknowledged the slave’s identity as both person and property.[99] Preachers taught the master’s responsibility and the concept of appropriate paternal treatment, using Christianity to improve conditions for slaves, and to treat them “justly and fairly” (Col. 4:1). This included masters having self-control, not disciplining under anger, not threatening, and ultimately fostering Christianity among their slaves by example.[99]
“slavery was smashed by a civil war that cost the lives of approx. 620,000 men.”
KId the day you make a good point the world’s populace will will have five seconds of silence as they finally recognize that miracles can happen.
Slavery was well on it s way to being abolished in a good part of the world before the civil war and yes in great part to Christian leaders of a movement against it. Get a history book,learn to read and then try reading a page. When you come across any words more than 6 letters long let me know and I’ll try and tell you what they mean.
Finding Truth 
Any Christian who condones or excuses the Christian god’s attitude toward slavery in both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible has no business preaching objective morality to anyone.
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Nate: “Pastor Bill” has responded to your questions…if you can call it responding. He seems stuck in the paradigm that the Bible, specifically, the King James Bible, cannot be wrong, no matter how much evidence to the contrary is presented to him.
Sound familiar anyone??
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“at times, god wanted them to kill everything and babies except for virgin girls, which they were to keep for themselves. yay, morality.
Yawn… we have discussed the claims you make against the morality of God in many of Nate’s posts. Whats new? In regard to God nothing has changed. Same moral code. He still reserves the right for who lives and dies. Every theist knows this. He is God ( so boring sometimes to break down the simplest of things to you) No theist make the ridiculous claim as you people do that God is changing his morality when HE Decides someone must live or die. He is the giver and owner of life. Murder is wrong because life does not belong to us as humans.
So as we all know and have debated several times sure there are a few instances in the OT (thousands of years ago) where GOD says (based on his knowledge of their hearts, their future etc) I determine these people must go. Now if god went around telling people in the nt that they can decide who lives and dies then you would have a point but as usual on that you never do
“slavery too – not condemned in the bible. a christian slave owner in the NT wasn’t commanded to free his slaves, but to be a good master. Bible morality, yay.”
I realize you people rarely read the bible but even I am surprised by your lack of knowledge of the NT. I mean you are quite given to being dishonest but sometimes you also just seem to e totally oblivious to any verse that isn’t an alleged proof text for your claims.
The NT did the unthinkable and elevated every slave to equal status with their masters in the eyes of God
Ephesians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Masters were not to even treat “slaves” as they used to but fairly and righteously as brothers
Ephesians 6:9
“And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.”
Col 4:1
Colossians 4:1 (KJV)
1 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.
Paul writes letters on behalf of a slave as a brother in Christ but all such things you know nothing of
Jesus addresses almost none of the social issues of the day but focuses on whats behind them. Slaves were equal to all men in the NT and were to be treated as brothers and love was to be shown to all. Its a message that ended Slavery when Wilberforce INSPIRED BY THE NT moved for its abolishment
A historical fact that renders all the claims against the NT agreeing with slave practices of the day (because they kept them in name only) nothing but blather without knowledge.
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“If you deny it, then you are a liar. ‘
LOL…Gary whatever. I don’t worry about what you say too much. Its after all…so you. What I wrote is plain as day.
“and no despite your usual no study babbling the OT Torah which the jews lived by never demanded as the will of God people to have slaves.”
There it is. never claimed that the OT didn’t allow it . Never said slaves were not kept. I said GOd never demanded in the torah as his will that people keep slaves.
I still await a single verse that contradicts my claim. None of those presented indicates that people had to take slaves to keep the law. Its babbling nonsense.. Why don’t you try that claim with one of your Jew fiends who you say know their book
If you are either too stupid, too ignorant or too dishonest not to see what was said then ….ummmmmmm why would I be surprised?
Its nothing I have not said before of most of you. 😉
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“No theist make the ridiculous claim as you people do that God is changing his morality when HE Decides someone must live or die. He is the giver and owner of life. Murder is wrong because life does not belong to us as humans.” ABacksmanagain
oh, i didnt mean to imply that i thought theists think that god changes his morality. not at all, i just think that when theists are presented with acts that are obviously immoral, that their god commanded and engaged in, that they’re forced to sat that killing babies and stealing virgin girls isnt immoral, or else god would do immoral things, and we cant have that.
and if god can kill what he creates, that sounds too much like pro-choice to me, and i dont readily fall into that category.
so morality, to theists, is an arbitrary things depended on the feelings of god at a particular time.
but even if the bible is lacking, it doesnt prove evolution caused morality is right, just that the bible is lacking.
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“and if god can kill what he creates, that sounds too much like pro-choice to me, and i dont readily fall into that category.
so morality, to theists, is an arbitrary things depended on the feelings of god at a particular time.”
You always wax into silliness WIlliam. You are begging because theists don’t subscribe to your foolish definition of God’s morality that its arbitrary. To illustrate the stupidity of your ideas observe.
I went to the store today and bought a shirt. I will take it out and wear it. Its mine. It is not immoral for me to wear my own shirt. If someone comes into my home and takes it without my permission and does the same thing I did – wear it – then thats wrong.
Why? It does not belong to them.
Saying that God cannot take back any life that belongs o him or he is being inconsistent is just immense stupidity not worth responding to very much.
Its akin to saying that if a thief cannot take my shirt and wear it then neither can I without being immoral.
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except your bible doesn’t compare people to shirts in god’s eyes, but children.
so I dont know what you’re talking about. i thought we were talking about the bible.
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god:
“do as I say, not as i do.”
“steal that virgin girl because he parents were wicked, but only after you kill their baby son.”
clearly, something a loving and all powerful creator would command.
looks a lot like ISIS to me, but i walk by sight, so that may be the difference.
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“in the eyes of god, you are as shirts, to be worn or burned alive, as he desires”
that’s not weird. nothing immoral about that, it’s just odd.
“becomest thou as shirts, and ye shall be worn by god among the angels in heaven. Great is thy wardrobe, O God of shirts, and greater still are thine cloaks. Amen.”
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“except your bible doesn’t compare people to shirts in god’s eyes, but children.
so I dont know what you’re talking about. i thought we were talking about the bible”
ugggh…..sorry but you are a teenager or have serious mental issues. Seriously you can’t follow a simple analogy without derrr….uh?
Only have time for adults – Back on ignore
but you and Nate should ask yourself whats the big deal with children that stops God from seeing their future and who they are and would be? Hitler was a child so it still goes back to you not having a clue about what they would become.
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“and god rent the wicked like a shirt off his own back, spotted with mire.”
“I am the lord thy god, and i shall wear a shirt that pleases me, and rend a shirt that pleases me not. Thou shalt not adorn me with shirts from made of polyester, nor of shirts sold at aeropostale.”
LikeLiked by 1 person
“ugggh…..sorry but you are a teenager or have serious mental issues. Seriously you can’t follow a simple analogy without derrr….uh?” – ABlacksmanagain
we’ve been through this. I’m both.
and I think you’re the one who missed the analogy.
shirt god guy
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“but you and Nate should ask yourself whats the big deal with children that stops God from seeing their future and who they are and would be? Hitler was a child so it still goes back to you not having a clue about what they would become.” – Ablacksmanagain
ok, but still sounds like you’re giving credence to pro-choice.
you should ask yourself why you should believe the claims of the men the wrote the bible. really. and then ask yourself why you continue to dodge the big questions and resort to tangential issues when they arise.
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@ ablacksmanagain
It doesn’t surprise me you missed the point I raised about the primitive societies because you don’t wish to learn anything (you already know because you believe that your god has produced an objective moral standard and will tolerate no examination of the veracity of that belief. You also seem able to grasp that evolution if true – and it is – is fatal to your belief justifications and so you have to pretend you – YOU! – with your multiple and advanced degrees in biology and genetics to rank you as at least as expert as the thousands of working and productive biologists and geneticists that create applications, therapies, and technologies that work for everyone everywhere all the time who are so obviously and badly deluded that they dare disagree with you – are capable of determining this entire branch of science to be wanting. Aren’t you the clever one!).
I understand that you only want to defend your beliefs rather than align them with reality. That’s fine. You’re allowed to believe whatever you want. But don’t then assume that they are correct. They’re not. They rely on you maintaining and exercising a colossal hubris and arrogance. If, not when, you actually want to learn something, I’ll contribute. Until then, you are nothing but a pious black hole swallowing my time and effort.
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The issue is not, Mike, whether your god commanded the Hebrews to have slaves, the issue is that he tolerated it and condoned it. Even if you personally have no slaves, if you support the act of slavery in any way, you are committing an immoral act. If you don’t see that, then you have an immoral belief system.
Are you willing to condemn your God, Yahweh/Jesus, for condoning, permitting, and refusing to condemn and outlaw the ownership of slaves, Mike? If not, you are just as immoral as your god.
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“doesn’t surprise me you missed the point”
Doesn’t surprise me you still are claiming you have one despite your argument being totally dismantled.
Let me see. can he muster any counter to my counter points?
Hmm rehtoric and bluster
then um more rhetoric
oh well there is this
” If, not when, you actually want to learn something, I’ll contribute. Until then, you are nothing but a pious black hole swallowing my time and effort.”
as fine an admission of running way and being unable to back up his points as I have ever seen
toodles to you then.
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“Are you serious?
Assume the answer is yes from now on and save typing that same question whenever you can’t answer my questions..
every day just about every other species of animal out there is killing something living and in most cases for personal survival, self interest and even procreation and doing quite well. Claiming all of sudden with one species the same killing that works for all other species suddenly becomes a disadvantage to be selected against is just special pleading
“There would be pressures in both directions. As you say, if you murder someone to get what you want (your neighbor’s wife, perhaps), then you’ll father children with her and he won’t. However, the rest of society will quickly end your life when the opportunity arises, which keeps you from fathering as many children as you would.”
Good night man. think!! The only reason why society will hone in on you is because of an already existing moral outrage. If in fact they are doing the same thing then you go back to a real scenario that exists in many other species devoid of such morality. In many species the male will end up killing a “suitor” to the female and accordingly in your theory been awarded with an ongoing gene “transfer” . Thats already been shown to be advantageous. What you need to do is show an advantage for morality in a world without it.
” Thus, in our history, we’ve seen people who have gotten away with this behavior (like powerful despots), but we’ve also seen movements toward greater equality and protection of the weak.”
and again you make no point. The issue is not what works out for you once there is a moral code its how having a moral code evolve in the absence of any at all does. powerful despots get taken out BECAUSE there is an existing moral code that rallies forces against him. In the absence of that no forces would rally against one despot and the strongest wins just as they now do for every other species.
So you have still yet to show how morality evolves or even how any benefit for one poor creature or sets of creatures would have an advantage in a world at the time devoid of any. Human history and experience rebuff your assertions. In severely immoral societies where its killed or be killed you are at a distinct DIS advantage if you are the one person that won’t take pre-emptive action. In such cases outside moral forces are what ends up saving you. If there were none the poor and the weak always lose.
So I might be the one asking
Are you serious?
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“The issue is not, Mike, whether your god commanded the Hebrews to have slaves, the issue is that he tolerated it and condoned it.”
Really you mean you didn’t half quote me just a while ago and claim I was lying as the issue? Hmmmmmm….no that claim and issue is still there so look whose lying now about what the issue was???
You always try and half quote and get blown up when the full quote comes to light. You do that with the Bible as well…tsk…tsk
“Are you willing to condemn your God, Yahweh/Jesus, for condoning, permitting, and refusing to condemn and outlaw the ownership of slaves, Mike? ”
God has already condemned ALL sin from as far back as Genesis and people like you claim sin is not even real and morality changes with the times so what do you have to whine about? According to you its cultural and determined by society so you would be all for slavery if it made a strong enough societal come back (after being smashed by Christians on the basis of Christian teaching) or you are “he with fork tongue that talks out of both sides his mouth”.
Fortunately for you God is allowing quite a bit of sin . It won’t last forever. You have time to repent but when he’s done asking it won’t be pretty
Acts 17:
30″Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness
amazingly the charge from the same group will be God is doing too much destroying of sin and he should be more accommodating like……..um…… the good old days.
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“God has already condemned ALL sin from as far back as Genesis”
I wasn’t talking about man’s sin, Mike, I was talking about YOUR GOD’S sin; your god’s wicked, immoral, repulsive, barbaric behavior.
Will you condemn your god’s wicked, immoral sins, Mike? Prove to us that you really do believe in unchanging, objective moral standards by condemning the sins of your god who’s behavior violates the moral standards of every major religion on the planet.
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God and Good
We are born into a world of good, which we did not create. Not just material things, but ideals, like justice, liberty, and equality. And spiritual values, like courage, joy, and compassion.
We benefit from what others, in good faith, have left for us. In return, we sacrifice selfish interest when necessary to preserve this good for others. For the sake of our children, and our children’s children, we seek to understand, to serve, to protect, and perhaps, humbly, to enhance this greater good.
It is an act of faith to live by moral principle when the greedy prosper by dishonest means. It is an act of faith to stand up for right when the crowd is headed the wrong way. It is an act of faith to return good for evil.
We have seen Hell. We have seen gang cultures whose rite of passage is an act of mayhem or murder. We have seen racial slavery, persecution, and genocide. We have seen revenge spread violence through whole communities.
We envision Heaven, where people live in peace and every person is valued. It can only be reached when each person seeks good for himself only through means that are consistent with achieving good for all.
If God exists, then that is His command. If God does not exist, then that is what we must command of ourselves and of each other. Either way, whether we achieve Heaven or Hell is up to us.
The point of God is to make good sacred. We trust that, each time we put the best good for all above our own selfish interest, the world becomes a better place, for all of us, and our children, and their children.
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What you think you ‘totally dismantled’ was not the content of my comment. Your hand waving is insufficient although I’m quite sure you believe differently. So let me ask you – the greatest self-professed expert in biology I have ever encountered, why do we have mirror neurons and what is their function?
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it’s been said god gives everyone a purpose in life,
I wonder at what age blacksmanagain realized his purpose was to be an idiotic twat?
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lol mikey claims “slavery was “smashed by Christians on the basis of Christian teaching”
more Christians bullshit,
slavery was smashed by a civil war that cost the lives of approx. 620,000 men.
Over the decades and with the growth of slavery throughout the South, Baptist and Methodist ministers gradually changed their messages to accommodate the institution. After 1830, white Southerners argued for the compatibility of Christianity and slavery, with a multitude of both Old and New Testament citations.[99] They promoted Christianity as encouraging better treatment of slaves and argued for a paternalistic approach. In the 1840s and 50s, the issue of accepting slavery split the nation’s largest religious denominations (the Methodist, Baptist and Presbyterian churches) into separate Northern and Southern organizations.[100]
Southern slaves generally attended their masters’ white churches, where they often outnumbered the white congregants. They were usually permitted only to sit in the back or in the balcony. They listened to white preachers, who emphasized the obligation of slaves to keep in their place, and acknowledged the slave’s identity as both person and property.[99] Preachers taught the master’s responsibility and the concept of appropriate paternal treatment, using Christianity to improve conditions for slaves, and to treat them “justly and fairly” (Col. 4:1). This included masters having self-control, not disciplining under anger, not threatening, and ultimately fostering Christianity among their slaves by example.[99]
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Marvin Edwards, good comment
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“slavery was smashed by a civil war that cost the lives of approx. 620,000 men.”
KId the day you make a good point the world’s populace will will have five seconds of silence as they finally recognize that miracles can happen.
Slavery was well on it s way to being abolished in a good part of the world before the civil war and yes in great part to Christian leaders of a movement against it. Get a history book,learn to read and then try reading a page. When you come across any words more than 6 letters long let me know and I’ll try and tell you what they mean.
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