927 thoughts on “What Makes Something Right or Wrong?”
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
(Colossians 3:18; cf. 1 Peter 3:1 and Ephesians 5:22”
ROFL the poor kid is trying hard but flopping badly. Like i just wrote to William before reading your nonsense (well the first two paragraphs before realizing it was all drivel – skipped the rest) the Bible believes in roles for women and women but it does not mean inequality. In your quoting Ephesians 5:22 you didn’t even read the passage .
Ephesians 5
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. HE WHO LOVES HIS WIFE LOVES HIMSELF..
Sorry Sparky. Should a read the text. There is TOTAL equality even to the point where a woman is said to be one and the same with himself.
Try again. As for submission that skeptics always go haywire on?
kinda skipped whats right above it 😉
Ephesians 5:21
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
All Christians are called to submit to one another in some shape or form….sorry
divorce was allowed in the OT and condemned in the NT – unless for the reason of adultery (which was condemned).
not so with slavery. No where does the NT tell a master to free his slave. treat him well is about all it translates into. Same in christ? okay, you’re saved and can go to heaven, but until then, you’re owned by your master.
instead of saying that the bible doesn’t mean what it says, why not pretend “god’s word” was given in such a way to provoke thought and ethical evolution? As in god led them to water and let them drink in their time or something?
saying the NT condemns or teaches against slavery is untrue. the OT gave rules on it, and the only “pleasant” slave rules were for jewish slaves – those did not apply to foreign slaves.
from my perspective, it looks like youre the one doing selective reading.
I get the point that Mike is making. Yahweh is allegedly allowing slavery but it doesn’t command people to own slaves. As far as approval or disapproval it’s splitting hairs.
“so yes indeed the lord said keep slaves as my will.”
Wrong young nit..
“However, you MAY purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You MAY also purchase the children of such resident foreigner”
is not a command to keep slaves. Saying you may buy a book to earn to read doesn’t mean I am commanding you to. You’ve fallen on your head somewhere in infancy????
It is moderated, but not censored. Nate has a full-time job and when the comments spin out of control I don’t think he has the time to filter them all. Unfortunately the comments devolve into…well…this.
“divorce was allowed in the OT and condemned in the NT – unless for the reason of adultery (which was condemned).”
Wrong but commonly misunderstood
Malachi (OT NOT NT) 2:16
“Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. 16″For I hate divorce,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the LORD of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”
oh, you know what guys, I apologize to you all except for that insufferable mikey. I have a terrible potty mouth and I admit I am do lose my temper with these frauds that try to pass themselves off as christains. mikey is very much like Kathy. loves to twist the truth and the words that people say.
nate, please delete the my offending comments. I’m going to “do the right thing” and refrain from commenting further.
mikey is a waste of time, he will always be an ass, that’s what he is.
yeah, the bible does say that men and women are equal, but then goes on to show inequalities.
“Let the women remain silent in the churches, for it is not permitted for them to speak.”
and women are not allowed to teach or usurp authority over the man.
equal… but not.
even in the excerpt that mike gave, men to love their wives as christ loved the church. is the church (the group of believers) equal with christ?
mike, when you read a portion of something and then speak on it as if you know all there is to it, that’s ignorant and one of your bigger problems. Read the whole thing, and then comment on the whole. or read a portion, and explain that you’re only commenting on that one part. When you admit to reading part, but then say the rest was too dumb to read, then that’s dumb.
it doesnt have to be a fight.
does the bible allow women preachers? book, chapter, verse?
are husbands commanded to submit to their wives, or the wives to the husband?
Are men allowed to speak in the churches? are women?
are men allowed to teach women? are women allowed to teach men?
that’s not equal. but you believe they’re equal because the bible says “they’re equal.” it doesnt line up. unless having restrictions that another does not is equal in your mind… it’s just not equal in reality – so why argue over it? the more you insist they’re the same only convinces everyone how delusional and biased you are, in no way does it convince anyone that mike is right.
“Wrong but commonly misunderstood” – ABlacksmanagain
Matt 5:31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ ” – Jesus
Matt10:1 “And he left there and went to the region of Judea and beyond the Jordan, and crowds gathered to him again. And again, as was his custom, he taught them.
2 And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” 3 He answered them, “What did Moses command you?” 4 They said, “Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce and to send her away.” 5 And Jesus said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.” – Jesus
sure, jesus went on to say that god never liked it. But i never said god liked, I said he allowed it, which is what jesus also thought.
still, not the same as slavery. have you read the passages on those?
Notice Mike did not comment on my request for him to condemn the wicked, immoral (sinful) behavior of the ancient middle-eastern deity that he says prayers to every night. Judeo-Christianity is an immoral belief system and anyone who subscribes to it, after seeing the evidence, has displayed his own lack of morality.
I think we should all follow SPG’s lead and stop responding to this immoral Christian’s taunts.
“You already had people murdering people, too, but allegedly Yahweh had no trouble issuing a decree NOT to murder. People committed adultery. Yahweh allegedly said, “thou shalt not.” So couldn’t he just as easily have issued decrees barring slave ownership and divorce? Issuing legislation over slavery and divorce may not signify approval, but it certainly doesn’t give the impression of disapproval either”
Ruth this is probably the only valid point I have seen recently so thank you for that and my answer to that is that divorce,slavery and polygamy seem to have consequence that must be dealt with if you outlaw them in certain cultures and times.
It might come as a shock but I have no desire to see a law abolishing divorce (and much of what is in the torah particularly Deut are about legalities). As I am sure you have seen there are many marriages that are tragic for all when they continue. Divine marriage is supposed to be about love and happiness. Put some sinners in it they muck it up – badly.
so though I don’t approve of Divorce I don’t approve of those marriages either. So yep I would have laws that you MAY divorce and how to do it. Laws are complicated matters when governing a nation. You can’t always go with what you think is ideal because the people that live in them are not always ideal citizens. Jesus alludes to this when asked about why Moses allowed it and he replied that it was allowed because of the hardness of men’s hearts not because God wanted it that way.
I once asked a missionary what happened to wives of men that got saved in the nation he ministered. I assumed they disavowed themselves of their other wives and he surprised me by saying that would be a disaster for the women and even cruel. Even as recently as the last decade in some cultures women would have nowhere to go. This as I alluded to in my response to William is exactly the same issue with slavery.
Truth is in some countries today we STILL have slavery and the reason for it is purely economic. You lose a job with an employer today you pick up the paper and get another one. In the days that followed the abolishment of slavery there was nowhere to turn for that very reason and nothing really changed .
In the OT and NT times you had what are known as bond servants. They VOLUNTARILY bound themselves to a family for many for those same economic reasons. SO I would suspect the reason why some issue are not immediately addressed in the Bible is for the same reasons – what would be the consequences of the actions.
I have no doubt that your compatriots will call it spin but when looking at all the options and consequences keeping slaves in your family who you no longer see or treat as slaves was in the culture and economic situation probably the best practical solution.
Don’t you think there may be a bit of problem regarding a ‘new moral evaluation’ when the official position is that these believers (but not those heretics) already possess The Truth (TM) about which morals are the right ones sanctioned by God and which ones are not?
The picture you paint about religion’s positive moral effects is not supported by reality but is an exception to it.
I do think though, that while the hardness of their hearts argument has some merit, it seems inconstant to me with the god of the bible.
if there were reasons to allow divorce in the day, then those same reasons exist today, yet the NT is clear on divorce.
I viewed slavery much as you explain in here, when I was a christian. But the NT focuses so much on contentment and sharing with others, and selflessness, and being better to be defrauded than to quarrel with a brother, that i cannot seem to understand why the NT wouldnt not tell a christian to free their slaves – forgive that debt. I can get why a christain slave should remain a good servant, but to a christian slave owner? why not say, “free your slaves” as you say that a christian must do without other things?
but this is idle discussion, really. the bible says what it does and is often interpreted a number of ways. nate’s blog is really about why he doesnt find the bible believable any more. I stick around because I dont either. none of the reasons I left had to do with slavery or divorce or women’s rights…
as i’ve said before, I left because it’s from man. We’re told to believe god over man – that makes sense, except the bible was written men who only SAY that they have some form of divine inspiration. I dont trust that claim. you do.
yes, Marvin, my sincerest apologies to you.
the others here have sort of gotten used to my rudeness,
not saying they condone it, but they sort of take me as I am.
I have real issues with hateful lying phony smug Christians.
mikey isn’t the only one that has been making my blood boil,
there are thousands of them
and life is too short to deal with that.
anyway, everyone have a nice day,
I’m taking a break from the internet for a while,
I’m going to go do some gay stuff and cheer myself up.
Nate, William, Ruth, Nan, Neuro, Arch, Gary, Carmen keep up the good work.
I will be pop back in from time to time, I’ve learned a lot from all of you.
“that’s not equal. but you believe they’re equal because the bible says “they’re equal.” it doesnt line up. ”
Rubbish. Your logic as usual its what doesn’t line up. I can’t give birth to babies, I cannot breast feed them. in a theological construct its pretty obvious God didn’t want me to do either so is my wife superior? No she has a purpose and role that I wouldn’t mind having (it must be an AMAZING experience to connect with your children on that level even taking the pain involved into consideration).
Difference in roles does not mean inequal no matter how much you beg that its a contradiction (we can put that right down there will all your other alleged contradiction)
“does the bible allow women preachers? book, chapter, verse?”
Of course there are prophetesses in acts and no prohibition from preaching in general (you are alluding to particular church meetings related to teaching). get up off your lazy rear end and look it up without commanding me to give you chapter and verse. You are the one claiming to tell me what the Bible teaches
“are husbands commanded to submit to their wives, or the wives to the husband?”
Both. Women respect their husbands which includes submission and men are to love their wives and love submits to the others needs. Furthermore ALL CHRISTIANS are commanded to submit to one another (as I have already shown from the Ephesians passage) so this bogus understanding of the dreadfulness of submission is utter malarkey
When you can show me that being equal means my Wife has the same body parts that I do, she has to have my physical strength, I have to have her emotional sensitivity and we both must have identical emotional and social skills then you can BEGIN to make an argument that us having different roles to play means one is better or greater tan the other.
Just so you know, Marvin, Mike (aka ‘ABlacksmanagain’) has an amazing habit of being resurrected – that is, he gets himself banned for his insulting and demeaning banter, then thinks up another username so he can get back on Nate’s site. Of course, for those who’ve been around long enough, as soon as one of his comments is read – no matter how creative he is with his ‘handle’ – he’s instantly identified.
Just imagine if you knew nothing about christianity and had Mike as your only ‘witness’ . . . he’s so full of peace, love and understanding, eh?
“Rubbish. Your logic as usual its what doesn’t line up. I can’t give birth to babies, I cannot breast feed them. in a theological construct its pretty obvious God didn’t want me to do either so is my wife superior? No she has a purpose and role that I wouldn’t mind having (it must be an AMAZING experience to connect with your children on that level even taking the pain involved into consideration).
Difference in roles does not mean unequal no matter how much you beg that its a contradiction (we can put that right down there will all your other alleged contradiction)” – ABlacksmanagain
well, if we’re talking about things that are impossible for us to do, then okay. But that’s not what’s included in the scripture. It’s not limited to periods, or erections, or birthing babies, or breastfeeding, is it? I’ve seen childbirth – I want nothing do with it, personally.
the bible is talking about teaching and speaking and hearing ideas. It’s talking about following instead of leading.
when i was a believer, i viewed it as equal in salvation – because equality in the church and on earth, in service to god, were not equal.
like a private get’s veteran burial rights, and is therefor equal on a philosophical plane to a general – but a private is not equal to a general and their differences in roles illustrates that, instead of resolving it.
again, can a woman teach a man? can a man teach a woman?
what’s fair about that? what’s equal?
can a man speak in the churches? can a woman?
what’s fair about that? what’s equal?
is a man supposed to submit to his wife? is a wife supposed to submit to her husband?
again, what’s equal about that?
if nothing else, you should be able to at least see why I view these as unequal.
in heaven maybe they’re actually equal, if heaven is real. It’s certainly not that way here, according to the bible.
Finding Truth 
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
(Colossians 3:18; cf. 1 Peter 3:1 and Ephesians 5:22”
ROFL the poor kid is trying hard but flopping badly. Like i just wrote to William before reading your nonsense (well the first two paragraphs before realizing it was all drivel – skipped the rest) the Bible believes in roles for women and women but it does not mean inequality. In your quoting Ephesians 5:22 you didn’t even read the passage .
Ephesians 5
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. HE WHO LOVES HIS WIFE LOVES HIMSELF..
Sorry Sparky. Should a read the text. There is TOTAL equality even to the point where a woman is said to be one and the same with himself.
Try again. As for submission that skeptics always go haywire on?
kinda skipped whats right above it 😉
Ephesians 5:21
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
All Christians are called to submit to one another in some shape or form….sorry
Another one bites he dust.
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divorce was allowed in the OT and condemned in the NT – unless for the reason of adultery (which was condemned).
not so with slavery. No where does the NT tell a master to free his slave. treat him well is about all it translates into. Same in christ? okay, you’re saved and can go to heaven, but until then, you’re owned by your master.
instead of saying that the bible doesn’t mean what it says, why not pretend “god’s word” was given in such a way to provoke thought and ethical evolution? As in god led them to water and let them drink in their time or something?
saying the NT condemns or teaches against slavery is untrue. the OT gave rules on it, and the only “pleasant” slave rules were for jewish slaves – those did not apply to foreign slaves.
from my perspective, it looks like youre the one doing selective reading.
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SPG,
I get the point that Mike is making. Yahweh is allegedly allowing slavery but it doesn’t command people to own slaves. As far as approval or disapproval it’s splitting hairs.
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Apparently this site is not moderated. How unfortunate.
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“so yes indeed the lord said keep slaves as my will.”
Wrong young nit..
“However, you MAY purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You MAY also purchase the children of such resident foreigner”
is not a command to keep slaves. Saying you may buy a book to earn to read doesn’t mean I am commanding you to. You’ve fallen on your head somewhere in infancy????
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LOL, MIKEY, your CLAIM was “civil rights came from religion”, I proved you wrong.
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Marvin,
It is moderated, but not censored. Nate has a full-time job and when the comments spin out of control I don’t think he has the time to filter them all. Unfortunately the comments devolve into…well…this.
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saying you MAY purchase slaves means he certainly condones it. owning slaves is gods will, I never said he commanded it.
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“divorce was allowed in the OT and condemned in the NT – unless for the reason of adultery (which was condemned).”
Wrong but commonly misunderstood
Malachi (OT NOT NT) 2:16
“Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. 16″For I hate divorce,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the LORD of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”
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oh, you know what guys, I apologize to you all except for that insufferable mikey. I have a terrible potty mouth and I admit I am do lose my temper with these frauds that try to pass themselves off as christains. mikey is very much like Kathy. loves to twist the truth and the words that people say.
nate, please delete the my offending comments. I’m going to “do the right thing” and refrain from commenting further.
mikey is a waste of time, he will always be an ass, that’s what he is.
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yeah, the bible does say that men and women are equal, but then goes on to show inequalities.
“Let the women remain silent in the churches, for it is not permitted for them to speak.”
and women are not allowed to teach or usurp authority over the man.
equal… but not.
even in the excerpt that mike gave, men to love their wives as christ loved the church. is the church (the group of believers) equal with christ?
mike, when you read a portion of something and then speak on it as if you know all there is to it, that’s ignorant and one of your bigger problems. Read the whole thing, and then comment on the whole. or read a portion, and explain that you’re only commenting on that one part. When you admit to reading part, but then say the rest was too dumb to read, then that’s dumb.
it doesnt have to be a fight.
does the bible allow women preachers? book, chapter, verse?
are husbands commanded to submit to their wives, or the wives to the husband?
Are men allowed to speak in the churches? are women?
are men allowed to teach women? are women allowed to teach men?
that’s not equal. but you believe they’re equal because the bible says “they’re equal.” it doesnt line up. unless having restrictions that another does not is equal in your mind… it’s just not equal in reality – so why argue over it? the more you insist they’re the same only convinces everyone how delusional and biased you are, in no way does it convince anyone that mike is right.
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“Wrong but commonly misunderstood” – ABlacksmanagain
Matt 5:31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ ” – Jesus
Matt10:1 “And he left there and went to the region of Judea and beyond the Jordan, and crowds gathered to him again. And again, as was his custom, he taught them.
2 And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” 3 He answered them, “What did Moses command you?” 4 They said, “Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce and to send her away.” 5 And Jesus said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.” – Jesus
sure, jesus went on to say that god never liked it. But i never said god liked, I said he allowed it, which is what jesus also thought.
still, not the same as slavery. have you read the passages on those?
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Notice Mike did not comment on my request for him to condemn the wicked, immoral (sinful) behavior of the ancient middle-eastern deity that he says prayers to every night. Judeo-Christianity is an immoral belief system and anyone who subscribes to it, after seeing the evidence, has displayed his own lack of morality.
I think we should all follow SPG’s lead and stop responding to this immoral Christian’s taunts.
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Marvin, I think you’re adding a lot though.
sorry for the muck
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“You already had people murdering people, too, but allegedly Yahweh had no trouble issuing a decree NOT to murder. People committed adultery. Yahweh allegedly said, “thou shalt not.” So couldn’t he just as easily have issued decrees barring slave ownership and divorce? Issuing legislation over slavery and divorce may not signify approval, but it certainly doesn’t give the impression of disapproval either”
Ruth this is probably the only valid point I have seen recently so thank you for that and my answer to that is that divorce,slavery and polygamy seem to have consequence that must be dealt with if you outlaw them in certain cultures and times.
It might come as a shock but I have no desire to see a law abolishing divorce (and much of what is in the torah particularly Deut are about legalities). As I am sure you have seen there are many marriages that are tragic for all when they continue. Divine marriage is supposed to be about love and happiness. Put some sinners in it they muck it up – badly.
so though I don’t approve of Divorce I don’t approve of those marriages either. So yep I would have laws that you MAY divorce and how to do it. Laws are complicated matters when governing a nation. You can’t always go with what you think is ideal because the people that live in them are not always ideal citizens. Jesus alludes to this when asked about why Moses allowed it and he replied that it was allowed because of the hardness of men’s hearts not because God wanted it that way.
I once asked a missionary what happened to wives of men that got saved in the nation he ministered. I assumed they disavowed themselves of their other wives and he surprised me by saying that would be a disaster for the women and even cruel. Even as recently as the last decade in some cultures women would have nowhere to go. This as I alluded to in my response to William is exactly the same issue with slavery.
Truth is in some countries today we STILL have slavery and the reason for it is purely economic. You lose a job with an employer today you pick up the paper and get another one. In the days that followed the abolishment of slavery there was nowhere to turn for that very reason and nothing really changed .
In the OT and NT times you had what are known as bond servants. They VOLUNTARILY bound themselves to a family for many for those same economic reasons. SO I would suspect the reason why some issue are not immediately addressed in the Bible is for the same reasons – what would be the consequences of the actions.
I have no doubt that your compatriots will call it spin but when looking at all the options and consequences keeping slaves in your family who you no longer see or treat as slaves was in the culture and economic situation probably the best practical solution.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ Marvin
Don’t you think there may be a bit of problem regarding a ‘new moral evaluation’ when the official position is that these believers (but not those heretics) already possess The Truth (TM) about which morals are the right ones sanctioned by God and which ones are not?
The picture you paint about religion’s positive moral effects is not supported by reality but is an exception to it.
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mike, nice comment.
cordial tone. valid points. there you go.
I do think though, that while the hardness of their hearts argument has some merit, it seems inconstant to me with the god of the bible.
if there were reasons to allow divorce in the day, then those same reasons exist today, yet the NT is clear on divorce.
I viewed slavery much as you explain in here, when I was a christian. But the NT focuses so much on contentment and sharing with others, and selflessness, and being better to be defrauded than to quarrel with a brother, that i cannot seem to understand why the NT wouldnt not tell a christian to free their slaves – forgive that debt. I can get why a christain slave should remain a good servant, but to a christian slave owner? why not say, “free your slaves” as you say that a christian must do without other things?
but this is idle discussion, really. the bible says what it does and is often interpreted a number of ways. nate’s blog is really about why he doesnt find the bible believable any more. I stick around because I dont either. none of the reasons I left had to do with slavery or divorce or women’s rights…
as i’ve said before, I left because it’s from man. We’re told to believe god over man – that makes sense, except the bible was written men who only SAY that they have some form of divine inspiration. I dont trust that claim. you do.
it’s really okay either way.
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tildeb, I took marvin’s comments to mean that religion, for believers, is an attempt by people to do what’s right.
If they’re looking for what’s right, then that is good, whether they’ve found all the good there is or not.
that’s what I took from it – basically, why argue over it, let’s all try to be good, and value the overlap.
just my take
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yes, Marvin, my sincerest apologies to you.
the others here have sort of gotten used to my rudeness,
not saying they condone it, but they sort of take me as I am.
I have real issues with hateful lying phony smug Christians.
mikey isn’t the only one that has been making my blood boil,
there are thousands of them
and life is too short to deal with that.
anyway, everyone have a nice day,
I’m taking a break from the internet for a while,
I’m going to go do some gay stuff and cheer myself up.
Nate, William, Ruth, Nan, Neuro, Arch, Gary, Carmen keep up the good work.
I will be pop back in from time to time, I’ve learned a lot from all of you.
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take ‘er easy, paulie
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We got your back, Paul. . .err. .. 😉
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“that’s not equal. but you believe they’re equal because the bible says “they’re equal.” it doesnt line up. ”
Rubbish. Your logic as usual its what doesn’t line up. I can’t give birth to babies, I cannot breast feed them. in a theological construct its pretty obvious God didn’t want me to do either so is my wife superior? No she has a purpose and role that I wouldn’t mind having (it must be an AMAZING experience to connect with your children on that level even taking the pain involved into consideration).
Difference in roles does not mean inequal no matter how much you beg that its a contradiction (we can put that right down there will all your other alleged contradiction)
“does the bible allow women preachers? book, chapter, verse?”
Of course there are prophetesses in acts and no prohibition from preaching in general (you are alluding to particular church meetings related to teaching). get up off your lazy rear end and look it up without commanding me to give you chapter and verse. You are the one claiming to tell me what the Bible teaches
“are husbands commanded to submit to their wives, or the wives to the husband?”
Both. Women respect their husbands which includes submission and men are to love their wives and love submits to the others needs. Furthermore ALL CHRISTIANS are commanded to submit to one another (as I have already shown from the Ephesians passage) so this bogus understanding of the dreadfulness of submission is utter malarkey
When you can show me that being equal means my Wife has the same body parts that I do, she has to have my physical strength, I have to have her emotional sensitivity and we both must have identical emotional and social skills then you can BEGIN to make an argument that us having different roles to play means one is better or greater tan the other.
You can’t so I will be waiting a long time
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“cordial tone. valid points. ”
If you earn it you get it. You never do. Ruth sometimes does. learn and improve
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* A commercial break for Marvin *
Just so you know, Marvin, Mike (aka ‘ABlacksmanagain’) has an amazing habit of being resurrected – that is, he gets himself banned for his insulting and demeaning banter, then thinks up another username so he can get back on Nate’s site. Of course, for those who’ve been around long enough, as soon as one of his comments is read – no matter how creative he is with his ‘handle’ – he’s instantly identified.
Just imagine if you knew nothing about christianity and had Mike as your only ‘witness’ . . . he’s so full of peace, love and understanding, eh?
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“Rubbish. Your logic as usual its what doesn’t line up. I can’t give birth to babies, I cannot breast feed them. in a theological construct its pretty obvious God didn’t want me to do either so is my wife superior? No she has a purpose and role that I wouldn’t mind having (it must be an AMAZING experience to connect with your children on that level even taking the pain involved into consideration).
Difference in roles does not mean unequal no matter how much you beg that its a contradiction (we can put that right down there will all your other alleged contradiction)” – ABlacksmanagain
well, if we’re talking about things that are impossible for us to do, then okay. But that’s not what’s included in the scripture. It’s not limited to periods, or erections, or birthing babies, or breastfeeding, is it? I’ve seen childbirth – I want nothing do with it, personally.
the bible is talking about teaching and speaking and hearing ideas. It’s talking about following instead of leading.
when i was a believer, i viewed it as equal in salvation – because equality in the church and on earth, in service to god, were not equal.
like a private get’s veteran burial rights, and is therefor equal on a philosophical plane to a general – but a private is not equal to a general and their differences in roles illustrates that, instead of resolving it.
again, can a woman teach a man? can a man teach a woman?
what’s fair about that? what’s equal?
can a man speak in the churches? can a woman?
what’s fair about that? what’s equal?
is a man supposed to submit to his wife? is a wife supposed to submit to her husband?
again, what’s equal about that?
if nothing else, you should be able to at least see why I view these as unequal.
in heaven maybe they’re actually equal, if heaven is real. It’s certainly not that way here, according to the bible.
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