FiveThirtyEight has a new article up that illustrates how education and religion factor in to this presidential election. The findings are pretty much what you’d expect, but you may be interested in reading the full article anyway.
By the way, the FiveThirtyEight Elections Podcast is excellent, if you’re interested in that kind of thing.
Finding Truth 
Well, I just “liked” my own comment. I was trying to click “edit” instead, but maybe Trump’s narcissism is rubbing off on me. I do have the best words, after all. 😉
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I’m not big on a lit of the Libertarian platforms, but when looked at in view of having to work with the other branches if government, those least liked platforms wouldn’t be a factor, I think.
2 & 5? I’m just covering all bases, hitting all the typical remarks when people tell how dumb voting 3rd party is. I felt like I was covered either way.
And I agree about Trump, I was just making an illustration because I thought your portrayal of Hillary was maybe a bit too generous. But I do get why people like her better than Trump – I just don’t want either in that position.
And Clearly Hillary would be preferred in many areas, but the areas I dont like her in aren’t small ones to me, and not small enough for me to overlook and think that I’d cast a vote for.
Who’s worse, Hitler or Saddam?
I think one is clearly worse, but that doesn’t mean I’d therefore choose Saddam if they were the only two in a race. Shoot, it makes more sense to protest the national anthem over this election than it does for police violence against minorities.
* And i’m not comparing Trump and Hillary to Hitler and Saddam, just showing that two choices doesn’t always mean I’d prefer one over the other, but can mean I really want nothing to do with either.
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Dammit! Another area of disagreement!
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A vote for Johnson, or Stein, or staying home is a vote for Trump. The KKK, the neo-Nazi’s and the evangelical fundies will come out in droves for him. They WILL vote.
Vote, William. Vote for the lesser of two evils, but VOTE, dammit.
🙂
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A vote for Johnson is only a vote for Trump IF i’d be willing to Vote for Hillary instead – I just dont like her.
Nate, I was joking about the national anthem protest, but does this mean you support the athlete’s protest of the national anthem?
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It’s not something I would do, but I think they have the right to do it. And I do agree with them that there’s a problem with systemic racism in this country. I think there are just too many examples to deny that now. If they want to call attention to it by not standing during the national anthem, I think there may be better ways to do it. Of course, there are certainly worse ways, too.
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I agree that they have the right, but I just don’t understand it.
Do they think the USA has a standing policy to discriminate against the black community? If so, then I can get the protest, if not, then it makes no sense at all.
And I think the answer is no, the USA has no such policy and in fact has the opposite, although hat wasn’t always the case.
So, yes they have the right, but I think it’s dumb and misplaced. It’s like protesting the NFL because people have been Raped. Sure Rape is awful, but the NFL doesn’t encourage it or have policies supporting it – even if there have been a few NFL players who’ve been guilty of it. I don’t hate the players who do it, but i think it’s a shallow effort.
I think the growing racial divide is multifaceted. I think the police need to fix their issues, but I don’t think the majority of Police are racist,
I think there’s a lot to be fixed in the black communities. I do think that blacks are more unjustly incarcerated than whites, but I also think that blacks commit more violent crimes than whites, which is supported by FBI statistics, so I am a little reluctant to sign on to the idea that racism is as bad as it’s being portrayed.
I just don’t get how sitting for the national anthem does anything. I wonder what the black combat veterans think of the protest? But again, if one thinks the US has standing policy against black people, then okay – I just don’t think it does.
.
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It’s not an official policy, but that doesn’t mean there’s no issue.
These guys are just trying to call attention to the problem. I can’t say I blame them too much, when I see so many people around here deny that there’s any problem at all.
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I agree, there is a problem, but blaming Joe for Paul’s problem may not be the best way to bring attention to the problem – it may just highlight another problem.
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What better way to make white “regular Joes” aware of a problem than to insert it into football? Maybe paste it on a beer label…
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And I think there are at least two problems, and I think people on both sides ignore their own and only see the other – which, I guess, is a third problem.
Police has a real issue that they need to acknowledge and address.
the black community also has a real issue that they need to acknowledge and address.
Same with the white community.
But a lot of the discrimination isn’t race based, I think, but poverty based. If a white guy was dressed in a wife-beater shirt, looked either thug-ish or trailer-trash-ish, he would be, and has been, treated the same by police – granted, the ratios are different, but there is a higher percentage of blacks in poverty than whites.
maybe it’s less about race and more about poverty, which would highlight another issue – if those in poverty are more prone to crime, how do we solve that?
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Nascar – those are the jerks who need it most.
BUt to many, it falls on deaf ears, because it’s seen as misplaced. The national anthem is about the nation’s ideals, the bill of rights, equality and freedom. To many, they see it as discounting that, while trampling over the graves of those who’ve served under those ideals – even the black veterans.
Nah, I don’t follow.
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I think poverty is part of it, but I think race is too. Go back and look at all the victims of police violence over the last several years. They weren’t all dressed in a way that portrayed poverty or gang affiliation.
And of course, plenty of these videos show that police weren’t in any real danger anyway.
I think most of this comes from an authoritarian view. Some of these cops feel like if someone doesn’t do what they say when they say it, no matter how trivial, then it’s fair to escalate things. That’s just the wrong outlook. They’re the professionals — they should be the ones trying to maintain calm and order. If someone doesn’t immediately comply with something they say, then they should rethink what they’ve asked of the person. Is it necessary? Is it reasonable?
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I’m not saying the national anthem protest is the best way to spread the message. But I don’t think it’s the worst way, either. And honestly, the biggest shame is that people need the message to begin with. Some of these videos remove all doubt that there’s an issue.
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And I’m not insensitive to the problems.
I do believe that slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation have held black people back, and places them at a disadvantage, even today.
What are the causes for this persisting even after those programs have ended?
1) despite vast improvement, there is still racism in various places
2) instead of taking advantage of available programs and opportunities, they are ignored or squandered.
3) I think the memory of slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation caused many to teach their children that no matter how hard they work or how well they do, that the police or white people, wont let them succeed. I think this makes some less productive workers, because they’re too down about having to fight up hill, and they don’t realize that when they get fired or looked over for a promotion due to being a poor employee, they see it as fulfillment that they’re being kept down because of their skin color.
#1 isn’t just due to whites, but all races have their racists, and I think time and education handle this one.
#2 is to have community outreach (maybe NFL players could do this in addition to sitting during the anthem) and encourage all kids,even exclusively minorities, to apply themselves in school or the military or at work to get ahead.
#3 is the one I’m not sure about. I think it’s related to #2’s solution, but it goes deeper. Are they due reparations? I think so, but that doesn’t mean it will happen or that there’s a good way to pay for it. Plus, while blacks had it far worse and in far more general terms, there were others like Irish for a time in a way, who were also enslaved. Should they get reparations too? And who should pay for it? Should tax dollars, which come from black as well as white? who come from linage of slave owner as well as those who weren’t? And really, if reparations would help, I’d say just do it and be done with it – but aside from that, what?
What wont work is is pretending that #1 is the only issue. What also wont work is pretending that #1 isn’t an issue at all.
But, I also think, “white privilege,” is overplayed. Nate, you’re a white guy like me, but did you receive an inheritance? Did your parents pay for your college?
I didn’t get one, and the GI Bill paid for my college. I have had good fortune and I had a good home, but I didn’t get a free house or free college. So while I get accept that I have been blessed and had less roadblocks, “white privilege” implies that I didn’t work for what I have, which isn’t true.
Any ideas on how this is overcome and how we come together?
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“maybe it’s less about race and more about poverty, which would highlight another issue – if those in poverty are more prone to crime, how do we solve that?”
I think it’s both William. I’ve had Cop friends most of my adult life. Guys who’ve been on the force for a number of years that would talk openly to me about hot button issues.
From their standpoint, it was a poverty and just as important a culture issue. They didn’t necessarily mean culture from another country as it also meant culture of the community.
An example from a cop friend of mine in Kansas City. They could go into an apartment building in the inner city looking for someone and visit 2 apartments across the hallway . One might have adults high on drugs with children around sitting on insect infested furniture that had had holes in it from abuse. Filthy and the stench was overwhelming. Across the hall would be straight adults with children doing their homework on the floor. The furniture was also in bad shape but they placed covers over it to make it look presentable. The apartment was clean and maintained as best they could.
Do you see the difference ? As my friend said, you may not help being poor, but there is no excuse for not being responsible and clean.
So this is only one side of the problem. But it needs to be addressed just like the other situations concerning police and the white community.
Though I haven’t lived there in 6 years, I still donate to an organization in Kansas City that is helping the inner city to reclaim their pride and reduce crime. You can watch a short video here about them. Just click on the video in the middle of their home page.
http://theurbanfarmingguys.com/
What if we were able to do this Nationwide ? What a concept !
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You’re right about the police.
I do agree.
But again, bad police aren’t the only issue that needs to be address, although it is a very real, big issue.
And still, I think the police is an instance of a bad minority of police, instead of an overall policy.
Ironically, I think the issues are more similar than we realize. I think many in the black community are taught that police hate you and are out to get you,etc – and I think police are briefed, “be careful out there, they’ll try to kill you, etc…”
and so they’re both on the streets expecting the worse already.
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kccheif1,
I think that’s the way to handle it, people working in their communities.
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I say poverty may be a big or bigger issue, because I dont think most people think through things. I think most mouth breathing cops may say “black people are this way…”
But I think the same cops in a dirty trailer park full of white people, would treat these whites no better and think just as poorly about them – “they’re this way because they’re lazy or just want drugs or are stupid,” and all that
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William,
If you don’t vote…
and Trump wins…
and I have to move to Australia to escape…
and I end up living next door to UnkleE…
I will hold YOU responsible.
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Well Crap, Gary…
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🙂
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For real though, I do spend a little time looking to see if there’s another place I’d fit into better, and be a little happier – but for now I’m sort of limited to English speaking countries.
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“but for now I’m sort of limited to English speaking countries.”
William there are a lot of countries where spoken English is not uncommon. I love going to Switzerland and have no problem communicating. Plus they are a neutral country with relatively low crime. Just sayin….. 🙂
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Well, while I hate to be that American who expects everyone to speak English, I like what you’re getting at, and if nothing else, Switzerland would be a beautiful place to visit.
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