Agnosticism, Atheism, Bible Study, Christianity, Faith, God, Religion, Truth

Letter to Kathy Part 2

Nate

You know Kathy, we’ve been fairly blunt with you today. Flippant, too. And it’s tough when people talk to/about you that way. I’m sorry for that.

If we could cut through all the rhetoric for a second, I’d like to commiserate with you. A little over 4 years ago, I was a very dedicated Christian. I had some doubts, but they weren’t about the Christian faith, just my understanding of it.

I felt like there were problems in my beliefs about the gospel. I believed in a literal Hell, and I believed a lot of people would be going there. But I had a very hard time squaring that with a loving God. I had matured enough to realize that most people were pretty decent. Not perfect, certainly, but good people who cared about others and typically wanted to do the right thing. I didn’t think such people deserved Hell. In fact, like Paul, I often thought that if God would accept it, I’d gladly go to Hell myself, if it would save my friends and family. And if everyone else could be added into that deal too, even better.

So if I felt that way, could I be more compassionate than God? Of course not. But I had a very hard time finding anything in the Bible that backed up an idea that most people, regardless of creed or  belief would be saved.

I didn’t give up though. I knew about Universalists, so I decided to read up on their reasons for thinking everyone went to Heaven. It sounded good, but I just wasn’t convinced by their arguments. I just didn’t see the Bible teaching such a doctrine, and I still believed the Bible was the inerrant word of God.

I was in a state of flux.

And that’s the position I was in when I first ran across articles that pointed out flaws in the Bible. I was shocked by what the articles said, but since I didn’t have any answers against them at the moment, I got busy with research. I didn’t even comment on the articles — I just went to work. It wasn’t about winning any arguments; it was simply a search for answers.

I think that frame of mind I was in made all the difference for me. Deep down, I was already struggling. The doctrines I had long believed in, and even taught to others, didn’t fit together in my mind as well as they once had.

That’s probably the difference between you and me. I get the feeling that you question nothing about your faith. Not trying to put you down about that; just making an observation.

For me, discovering that the Bible was not the perfect book I had always thought it to be, and finding out that some of these church leaders I had always admired knew of these problems but never spoke of them, helped me make sense of a lot of things. It took time, and it wasn’t easy to come to the realizations, but everything finally fell into place for me when I realized Christianity was just another religion. For the first time, I finally understood the sentiment of that line from “Amazing Grace,” I once was blind, but now I see…

I don’t know if that’s helpful to you at all. Maybe one day it will be. Maybe one day, something will make you ask a few questions, and you’ll think back to those non- believers who were so insistent that Christianity was certainly not the only way. If that day comes, I hope you’ll find this exchange helpful and realize you’re not alone.

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Published by Nate

2,018 thoughts on “Letter to Kathy Part 2”

  2. honestly I just find your observations always so silly (You and ron)

    Translation: Damn, you two guys keep nailing my nuts to the wall with these facts I can’t refute, so I’ll just call you “silly” and pretend like nothing happened and nobody noticed.

    BTW, that apologetics site he keeps referencing is run by a guy with a Masters’ Degree in Library Science. He started a “Christian ministry” under the protection of a 501(c)(3) after being laid off from his prison librarian job. You can read all about him here. The late Farrell Till called him Robert “Blovius Maximus” Turkel.

    He sounds exactly like the guy who posts here under the “TBlacksman” avatar. Same arrogance, same M.O. Perhaps they’re one and the same person.

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  3. That depends entirely on the sauce – and it still beats the hell out of communion, they don’t even offer dip for the wafers! I KNOW! What kind of snack is that?!

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  4. “I’m hesitant to make assumptions about what ANYone means.”

    Arch

    Yeah, I’ve kind of given up on trying to change peoples mind on that. I just wish people could have the kind of discussions of old.

    like the more kind of round table talks with Eric, Josh, Nan, Howie – I mean people coming from different perspectives but are more or less there to discuss, and to understand, buit not necessarily agree. People come away with sharing what they believe,

    not to have a school yard brawl. Cause nobody wins in that scenario. especially when it gets down to –

    Person 1: your a child!!! because X and Y

    Person 2: no, your a child!!! because of A and D

    Ad infinitum. I don’t think truth wins out in these sorts of mindsets. And if truth doesn’t win, then no one wins.

    which makes me sad because under other circumstances the very same people are very articulate and can very clearly share what they think.

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  7. Naah – she would have been tied and tossed in a lake, if she sank, she would have been considered innocent (though somewhat dead, but at least her soul would have been safe in heaven), but if she floated, she would have been considered guilty, and THEN she would have been hung or burned at the stake. Anyone disputing the logic of that experiment, in those days, would have been considered a lying LIBERAL!

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  8. Ron, when it comes to research, you are a male Neuronotes, and believe me – despite the hurtful things she says about me : ( – that IS a compliment!

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  9. Arch,

    lest we forget the wars of 1732? the horror…

    when the pastfarios layed siege to the temple of manicotti, the Primavera was spilled thick that day. Three-cheese sauce soaked the hard bitter ground of schism and misunderstanding. If only pastfarios and Primavera could see over their own bowls….but it was not to be…

    You tell me Arch, when the dust has settled, and the bucati is drained….you tell me, who really won that day? Barilla or De Cecco?

    Answer me this Arch. and then, only then can you look me in the eye and tell me the sauce did not have enough garlic….

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  10. Ruth what can I say? You are quite clueless. did I ever say that Jews had no interest in the land or that none lived there? Your link only underlines what I said – Jews could not take the land without help from the British and even later UN resolutions. The idea that they would eventually take it back just because they really really really wanted it is just soo stupid. Many people have wanted their nation back. and no try another links – they did not fight their way back in to reclaim it. They were reliant on third parties so the claim of self fulfillment is just drivelling nonsense.

    No peoples or nations take a piece of dirt unless they really really really want it. Sometimes militantly, sometimes politically. One side wins the other side loses. That’s the way it works. Yes, they had help. Help from other Zionist nations who also believed that that dirt belonged to the Jews because the Bible tells them so. The Jews could have immigrated to anywhere in the world and they chose that spot because they had an interest in it.

    Further when the prophecy was made there was no telling what might have become of the land over the hundreds and nearly thousands of years. Had anyone of several nations in europe or england claimed it for themselves and established themselves there Jews could want it it all they want and they would not have gotten it no matter how hard they tried.

    You do know that England is part of Britain, right? That they were part of the group that helped? You do know that they were weary and weak from the war themselves? You do know that if they were a bit stronger the outcome might have been different? You do know that Zionism was breaking out in Great Britain? Had that not been so things might have been different as well. We can shoulda, coulda, woulda this to death. We’re not talking about what might have been.

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  11. But then, Portal, even under the best of circumstances, TRUTH is an elusive will-o’-the-wisp.

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  12. “Naah – she would have been tied and tossed in a lake, if she sank, she would have been considered innocent (though somewhat dead, but at least her soul would have been safe in heaven)”

    Oh, gee, that’s right, not to mention the godly priests in the bible poisoning pregnant women suspected of committing adultery or priests burning their daughters who had sex out of wedlock. Those horrible, horrible whores.

    “And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.” (Leviticus 21:9)

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  16. “LMAO 😀 Thanks for the endorphins.” – well, you know how I like to spread it around. Endorphins, too.

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  22. Hi Carmen,

    I think its nice you attend church, no matter where your at. It sounds like those people there are important to you. The way I see it, God knows where we are at 🙂

    Hope you are going well 🙂

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  25. Hi Ryan! (I’m aware that I told Nate I wouldn’t comment – but perhaps he’ll cut me some slack) I can tell you are from Australia; I have family there (half of our grandchildren live there – I just got back about a month ago). I’m ‘going’ well! 🙂

    Just so you know, I don’t believe in any god, but I DO believe in much of what religious people think are good things. . .you know, the Golden Rule, helping others in distress, yada, yada. I just don’t think we need a god to do all those things. We have brains and hearts and good sense; surely we can all figure out what to do on our own. I’m convinced that THIS is the life we get – we need to make the most of it. Being positive seems to be the key. I’m betting the non-believing commenters would second that.

    I do – and always will – think that the people in my church are important. (I have many friends who aren’t ‘church people’ that I feel the same way about) I also have no idea about what many of them REALLY believe but I suspect that many feel just the same way I do. Ours is not a fundagelical denomination and I am thankful for that – the emphasis is on just doing the best one can, trying to be a good neighbour and conscientious steward of the earth. It’s a family, the same as my school family, my community family, and my blood family. We’re all in this together!

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