You know Kathy, we’ve been fairly blunt with you today. Flippant, too. And it’s tough when people talk to/about you that way. I’m sorry for that.
If we could cut through all the rhetoric for a second, I’d like to commiserate with you. A little over 4 years ago, I was a very dedicated Christian. I had some doubts, but they weren’t about the Christian faith, just my understanding of it.
I felt like there were problems in my beliefs about the gospel. I believed in a literal Hell, and I believed a lot of people would be going there. But I had a very hard time squaring that with a loving God. I had matured enough to realize that most people were pretty decent. Not perfect, certainly, but good people who cared about others and typically wanted to do the right thing. I didn’t think such people deserved Hell. In fact, like Paul, I often thought that if God would accept it, I’d gladly go to Hell myself, if it would save my friends and family. And if everyone else could be added into that deal too, even better.
So if I felt that way, could I be more compassionate than God? Of course not. But I had a very hard time finding anything in the Bible that backed up an idea that most people, regardless of creed or belief would be saved.
I didn’t give up though. I knew about Universalists, so I decided to read up on their reasons for thinking everyone went to Heaven. It sounded good, but I just wasn’t convinced by their arguments. I just didn’t see the Bible teaching such a doctrine, and I still believed the Bible was the inerrant word of God.
I was in a state of flux.
And that’s the position I was in when I first ran across articles that pointed out flaws in the Bible. I was shocked by what the articles said, but since I didn’t have any answers against them at the moment, I got busy with research. I didn’t even comment on the articles — I just went to work. It wasn’t about winning any arguments; it was simply a search for answers.
I think that frame of mind I was in made all the difference for me. Deep down, I was already struggling. The doctrines I had long believed in, and even taught to others, didn’t fit together in my mind as well as they once had.
That’s probably the difference between you and me. I get the feeling that you question nothing about your faith. Not trying to put you down about that; just making an observation.
For me, discovering that the Bible was not the perfect book I had always thought it to be, and finding out that some of these church leaders I had always admired knew of these problems but never spoke of them, helped me make sense of a lot of things. It took time, and it wasn’t easy to come to the realizations, but everything finally fell into place for me when I realized Christianity was just another religion. For the first time, I finally understood the sentiment of that line from “Amazing Grace,” I once was blind, but now I see…
I don’t know if that’s helpful to you at all. Maybe one day it will be. Maybe one day, something will make you ask a few questions, and you’ll think back to those non- believers who were so insistent that Christianity was certainly not the only way. If that day comes, I hope you’ll find this exchange helpful and realize you’re not alone.
Finding Truth 
“Mike I don’t expect you to get it. It took me years to learn about all this. Religion hijacked our reward system. Your brilliant con-artist founding fathers of authoritarian religion, called Christianity, incorporated specific words and phrases that are associated with a mother and child, and a husband and wife.”
Yawn.. another Cracker jack sermon from Neuro on the evils of God saying he is our father filled with the delirium of her own dopamine that she has seen the light Does Amazon have any new releases?
“When you attach to your god of your culture, like a child and mother attach to each other and a husband and wife attach to each other, these chemicals will be released and they will deactivate neural circuitry so that you become blinded to seeing things in your children or partner. ”
You ARE a nit. I see things I don’t like in my children, my wife and my parents all the time . Plenty of people do. actually I have found that people who have some crackpot ideas about ngothers are usually blind themselves from seeng things that dispute their narrative. I wonder why I am reminded of that??? ahh yes….
Congratulations – thats you. You are like a freshman Psychology major. We all went over board seeing things in people that we had just learned. Amateur hour. but thanks for the walk down memory lane
“You wouldn’t believe in your god if you didn’t get rewarded for it. You even get rewarded for submitting and even for suffering if you think you are going to get acknowledged by the big daddy in the sky. ”
I’m hoping he rewards me now for the suffering of reading you pretending to be a Neuroscientist. i was looking for the theatre manager for a refund for watching such an awful acted play and then I realized – its the internet and I am a home. If only my computer screen had curtains (and they would close).
” You may go to church more, do more religious activities because you want to please god and hope you can get those fuzzy wuzzy (honeymoon) feelings back again.”
Sounds like you were emotionally unbalanced my dear. A little needy for a rush. Drug use in your background? its kind of like a strain of the flu in a foreign land. The locals didn’t have it you brought it with you.
Plus remember our earlier conversation. I own a penis. Not across the board but those of who do tend not to get so emotional. Sorry and I am sure you have heard of it before but you are – projecting.
Foiled by your own unwitting confessions of emotional neediness.
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*snickers*
You are so transparent.
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“I pointed that out, Mike, because you are so sure that your cultural god is the God. My point is that had you been born in India you would probably be worshiping the Monkey God, or the many other gods, or if you had been born in Saudi Arabia, you would be worshiping Allah. ”
You don’t know what i would be because
A) You are a hack not a real psychiatrist
B) You are also a nit that doesn’t realize from that barf that Christians can be found in every country and culture in the world
C) I wasn’t born into any religion because my family was not religious
D) with reporting the second time – You ARE a nit that doesn’t realize from that barf that Christians can be found in every country and culture in the world.
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”
*snickers*
You are so transparent.
”
Again projecting – after having feelings of being exposed? 🙂
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Mike, I’m not posting this for you. But for others who may be interested:
“Romantic and maternal love are highly rewarding experiences. Both are linked to the perpetuation of the species and therefore have a closely linked biological function of crucial evolutionary importance. Yet almost nothing is known about their neural correlates in the human. We therefore used fMRI to measure brain activity in mothers while they viewed pictures of their own and of acquainted children, and of their best friend and of acquainted adults as additional controls. The activity specific to maternal attachment was compared to that associated to romantic love described in our earlier study and to the distribution of attachment-mediating neurohormones established by other studies.
Both types of attachment activated regions specific to each, as well as overlapping regions in the brain’s reward system that coincide with areas rich in oxytocin and vasopressin receptors. Both deactivated a common set of regions associated with negative emotions, social judgment and ‘mentalizing’, that is, the assessment of other people’s intentions and emotions. We conclude that human attachment employs a push–pull mechanism that overcomes social distance by deactivating networks used for critical social assessment and negative emotions, while it bonds individuals through the involvement of the reward circuitry, explaining the power of love to motivate and exhilarate.”
Click to access Bartels2004_maternalLove_%5B0%5D.pdf
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I’ve never claimed to be anything, Mike. I’m sharing what I learned on my journey out of Christianity. Bottom line, your god Yahweh acts just like some hyper-masculine, testosterone driven brute dude out of the Bronze/Iron Age. The only reason Christianity can be found in other parts of the world is due to…. wait for it —–> proselytizing.
How did you find Jesus? Head injury? Magic Mushrooms? Incarceration? 😛
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He certainly wants everyone to know that he has a penis, doesn’t he? Keep it in your pants, Stubby —
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“You see how that works? But you apparently think you are so special because you have the right god — Yahweh — the war god worshiped during the Bronze/Iron Age in a small area of the world. ”
No Neuro your denial of reality means nothing. He is the God worshiped by most of the world with followers in every country and culture. When you say such silly things you only betray your lack of objectivity and your longing for the world to be as you wish and not as it is. Its probably the dopamine shutting down your cognitive abilities again
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”
He certainly wants everyone to know that he has a penis, doesn’t he? Keep it in your pants, Stubby –
”
Stubby? LOL they are all psychologically projecting tonight. never Mind Arch we won’t tell any one.
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“No Neuro your denial of reality means nothing. He is the God worshiped by most of the world with followers in every country and culture.”
Gee, I wonder why? 😀
Programmed, Programmed, Programmed
Indoctrinated, Indoctrinated, Indoctrinated
Wired, Wired, Wired and Rewired.
Yep — and the religious hierarchy are laughing all the way to the bank. Why? Because your god need money — lots and lots of money.
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Nighty night, Mike and Arch.
It’s been fun.
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“I wasn’t born into any religion because my family was not religious” – Very interesting, Mike – what happened to you?
Also, I couldn’t help noticing that you don’t relate well to strong women – are there some Mommy issues in there somewhere?
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“Bottom line, your god Yahweh acts just like some hyper-masculine, testosterone driven brute dude out of the Bronze/Iron Age.”
We tend to like our God’s to be all powerful. No wimps need apply. What can I say?
” The only reason Christianity can be found in other parts of the world is due to…. wait for it —–> proselytizing”
And you were expecting what ? Osmosis. yes people told others about umm how did you put it their “journey” (you proselytizer you)
“How did you find Jesus? Head injury? Magic Mushrooms? Incarceration?”
Sorry I am not your type. tip though – Don’t appear to be so eager. comes across desperate.
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Here’s a partial tally of all the gods that were never conceived more than once by anyone, anywhere else on the planet:
http://www.graveyardofthegods.org/deadgods/listofgods.html
Allah and Yahweh will eventually join that list as well.
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@Ron:
“Where is the graveyard of dead gods? What lingering mourner waters their mounds?”
— H. L. Menken —
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“Also, I couldn’t help noticing that you don’t relate well to strong women – are there some Mommy issues in there somewhere?”
Arch again for the second time – not everyone suffers from your maladies.
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“Allah and Yahweh will eventually join that list as well.”
Whatever gives you sweet dreams ronnie boy. Atheist have to cope with being the minority some way
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PeeWee Herman used to say, “I know you are but what am I?” much as you do – that makes TWO things you and PeeWee have in common —
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Neuro,
me: ““Neuro, you are wrong.. there is lots of evidence for the God of the Bible being your Creator.”
“Kathy, you have yet to prove anything except what you “feel”.”
Neuro, where in that sentence did I claim to have “proof” of God? No Christian makes that claim. But, again, I’ve provided lots of compelling evidence… that you and others choose to continue to ignore… like you just did by changing the word “evidence” in my claim, for “proof”. This has been done quite a few times here on this blog by several people… even after I’ve corrected them. It’s an attempt to obfuscate.. and it’s clearly evidence of deliberate ignorance.
” You were most likely wired as a child to believe in the Christian god, and that the bible was the word of god. It is very difficult to atrophy (prune) those neural networks when they have been reinforced for years, and especially when you are indoctrinated at a certain age of brain development. ”
You were wrong about Mike and you are wrong about me.. and probably wrong about most Christians. This is another popular claim atheists like to make.. that people believe what they were “told” to believe. This is absurd for several reasons.. the main one being that when people grow up, one of the first things we learn is that we must make our own decisions about lots of things.. including and especially, what we believe, what our beliefs are. What you are claiming is that Christians (all of us) are too lazy to find out if what we were brought up in is true.. or we just don’t feel it’s that important. But, for the thinking person, the person, who asks questions and wants their lives to have meaning as opposed to being all about material possessions and social perks…. we DO care. I really don’t know what you’ve seen in MY words here, and there ARE A LOT of them.. that tells you I’m one of those people who doesn’t think, doesn’t ask questions and doesn’t care. (please quote those words!) Anyone applying objectivity would easily figure out I’m not one of those people. Every time a liberal makes these simple accusations about me or other people who’ve given clear indications otherwise, it tells me a lot about them.. you aren’t very observant.. you have pre conceived notions and aren’t open to anything that doesn’t fit that narrative.
You may have been “programmed” or indoctrinated in YOUR experience.. but my family wasn’t overly religious at all. And I know of many brought up just like me. And further, you all prove that it’s not hard at all to stop following what you were brought up in.. just about every atheist claims to have been a “believer”.. which, it’s pretty obvious that you were one of those people who most likely didn’t care and was just going through the motions because it was how you were brought up. You have zero evidence that the majority of Christians haven’t questioned what they were told to believe when they became adults. It’s just an unreasonable assertion of the majority.
It’s funny how you attempt to “prove” your beliefs/ views are correct with science. Our society has been “programmed” to believe anything that has the word science attached to it. Believe it or not but THAT’S where you’ll find a lot of “programming” and indoctrination. And Liberals take full advantage of that… quoting all kinds of “scientific studies”, passing off the results as scientific “fact”.
You quoted a “peer reviewed” study a while back about how the liberal brain is more “compassionate” etc etc.. hmm.. let me guess.. it was done by a university group, full of liberal professors and students (which IS the overwhelming make up of most colleges) of which the “peers” were fellow liberals. Nawww.. no chance the “peer reviewers” had any liberal bias towards that study! But since you said “peer reviewed!” and “scientific study”.. every liberal here bought all of it.. as nothing but “objective truth”.
You talk about indoctrination and programming WHILE utilizing those very same things to pass off liberal propaganda. What a surprise.
And the WORST indoctrination going on in society today is not religious at all.. it’s LIBERAL indoctrination.. it’s incredible how aggressively liberals go after people to indoctrinate them. It starts in school, earlier and earlier.. with lots of “revisionism” in text books and schools FULL of liberal teachers just dying to get a hold of naive children’s minds. It’s really not much different than how pedophiles operate. And both are disgusting.
Sorry Neuro, but I don’t buy any of what you have been posting here. This is just another tactic liberals use to manipulate the masses. Even if you aren’t intentionally doing this, the sources you are most likely using.. are.
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Neuro, cont..
“Sources state that he accidentally discovered the conversion techniques during a religious crusade in 1735 in Northampton, Massachusetts. By inducing guilt and acute apprehension and by increasing the tension, the “sinners” attending his revival meetings would break down and completely submit.
“Charles J. Finney was another Christian revivalist who used the same techniques four years later in mass religious conversions in New York. The techniques are still being used today by Christian revivalists, cults, human-potential trainings, some business rallies, and the United States Armed Services.”
Fundamentalists/evangelical preachers still uses these techniques today, and have also perfected the art of getting you into a suggestive brain wave state via selective music and voice roll, which is why it’s so damn hard to break away.”
How many preachers use these tactics today, Neuro? I wouldn’t ever claim that none do.. but it seems that you are implying the majority do.. that they are all about manipulation and control… so they can get more tithes? Is that the narrative here? Or what? What exactly are you claiming and what is your proof??
This is yet again, another absurd baseless claim that you are trying to attach to the majority.. and it’s unreasonable. You paint such a depraved picture of human beings. Why, no one could possibly, truly want to be God’s servant and spread His Gospel.. no one could possibly “really” believe that.. no one could possibly sincerely believe in God.. they’ve just all been “indoctrinated” by their family.. sorry but it’s ridiculous. Another example of “reasoning” completely void of objectivity.
There’s a really good movie by Kirk Cameron called Monumental… very fascinating facts about believers who came to this country to establish a new govt. that protected freedoms and rights.. particularly our freedom of religion. These people risked their lives, and many lost their lives so that future generations would be free to worship God. They had no desire to indoctrinate anyone.. they were tired of being “indoctrinated” by the Catholic Church unable to worship God how THEY believed He wanted to be worshiped.. based on actual scripture.
THESE are the people who define Christianity.. not Charles Finney. Liberals/ atheists always have to use the fringe to make their points.
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“You quoted a “peer reviewed” study a while back about how the liberal brain is more “compassionate” etc etc.. hmm.. let me guess.. it was done by a university group, full of liberal professors and students (which IS the overwhelming make up of most colleges) of which the “peers” were fellow liberals.” – Yes, Kathy, it was done by a university group, how is that a problem. “full of liberal professors and students?” – maybe that’s because the boys of Duck Dynasty don’t perform that many studies —
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You’re afraid of educated people, aren’t you?
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Kirk Cameron – isn’t he the clown that made the short film with Ray “Banana Man” Comfort, and was asking why there isn’t such a thing as a “CrockoDuck? He told me just how much HE knows in that film! Before Mike began posting, that was the hardest I’d ever laughed!!
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@Kathy
Do you still feel that Christian martyrdom is the “same” as any other?
WHAT Christian martyrdom?
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