You know Kathy, we’ve been fairly blunt with you today. Flippant, too. And it’s tough when people talk to/about you that way. I’m sorry for that.
If we could cut through all the rhetoric for a second, I’d like to commiserate with you. A little over 4 years ago, I was a very dedicated Christian. I had some doubts, but they weren’t about the Christian faith, just my understanding of it.
I felt like there were problems in my beliefs about the gospel. I believed in a literal Hell, and I believed a lot of people would be going there. But I had a very hard time squaring that with a loving God. I had matured enough to realize that most people were pretty decent. Not perfect, certainly, but good people who cared about others and typically wanted to do the right thing. I didn’t think such people deserved Hell. In fact, like Paul, I often thought that if God would accept it, I’d gladly go to Hell myself, if it would save my friends and family. And if everyone else could be added into that deal too, even better.
So if I felt that way, could I be more compassionate than God? Of course not. But I had a very hard time finding anything in the Bible that backed up an idea that most people, regardless of creed or belief would be saved.
I didn’t give up though. I knew about Universalists, so I decided to read up on their reasons for thinking everyone went to Heaven. It sounded good, but I just wasn’t convinced by their arguments. I just didn’t see the Bible teaching such a doctrine, and I still believed the Bible was the inerrant word of God.
I was in a state of flux.
And that’s the position I was in when I first ran across articles that pointed out flaws in the Bible. I was shocked by what the articles said, but since I didn’t have any answers against them at the moment, I got busy with research. I didn’t even comment on the articles — I just went to work. It wasn’t about winning any arguments; it was simply a search for answers.
I think that frame of mind I was in made all the difference for me. Deep down, I was already struggling. The doctrines I had long believed in, and even taught to others, didn’t fit together in my mind as well as they once had.
That’s probably the difference between you and me. I get the feeling that you question nothing about your faith. Not trying to put you down about that; just making an observation.
For me, discovering that the Bible was not the perfect book I had always thought it to be, and finding out that some of these church leaders I had always admired knew of these problems but never spoke of them, helped me make sense of a lot of things. It took time, and it wasn’t easy to come to the realizations, but everything finally fell into place for me when I realized Christianity was just another religion. For the first time, I finally understood the sentiment of that line from “Amazing Grace,” I once was blind, but now I see…
I don’t know if that’s helpful to you at all. Maybe one day it will be. Maybe one day, something will make you ask a few questions, and you’ll think back to those non- believers who were so insistent that Christianity was certainly not the only way. If that day comes, I hope you’ll find this exchange helpful and realize you’re not alone.
Finding Truth 
Hey Arch. I took a week off from blogging. It was quite nice. Everyone should try it. I see nothing has changed much here. 🙂
LikeLike
LOL — and thanks for taking the time to read the article. Arch, speaking of the sensed presence effect — Howie turned me on to this video a while back. If you haven’t seen it already, it’s well worth the watch and entertaining. It demonstrates how easy it is to cause someone to have an intense “God”, even a staunch atheist.
“How To Convert An Atheist”
LikeLike
KC – “and now for something completely different –” – watching a “Gunsmoke” rerun today, and Dillon and his prisoner were riding through a field of Saguero cactus – when was the last time you saw Saguero cactus in Kansas?
LikeLike
Arch, my bottom half is a cactus magnet. If there was Saguero cactus in Kansas, I would have found it. 🙂
LikeLike
Arch, I wonder if Mikey is a closet gunsmoke fan ? 🙂 If he was, he would tell us we were interpreting it wrong and we would have to consider the time, language, blah blah, blah blah, blah blah.
LikeLike
I want to know why they never told us what happened to Chester! Did you ever watch the old black and white Maverick series? Jim Garner did a parody of “Gunsmoke,” called, “Gunshy,” with Marshall Mort Dooley, a “Doc Adams” character, a “Chester” character and a “Miss Kitty” character, with the names slightly changed. The “Miss Kitty” character had only one line in the entire show, everytime the Marshal was about to ride off, she would pat his hand and say, “Be careful, Mort –“
LikeLike
“I want to know why they never told us what happened to Chester!” God took him. After all his name was Chester Goode. 🙂
LikeLike
“After all his name was Chester Goode.” – Yes, and no. As I told you earlier, “Gunsmoke” appeared first as a radio programl, with William Conrad as Dillon and Parley Baer as Chester, and on the radio, Chester’s name was “Chester Prodfoot.” It was changed to “Goode” for TV.
LikeLike
As usual, you are correct. They changed it to Goode to avoid a plagerism lawsuit. Festus was an OK replacement. My Father used to get a kick out of ol’ Festus.
LikeLike
“Victoria, here is an HBO Documentary on the subject, “A Question of Miracles” filmed around 2000. It shows how evangelists like Benny Hinn use mass hypnosis , lighting, music, etc to excite and control their crowds. Very interesting.”
It’s “very interesting” because it reinforces your narrative of Christianity and all those “evil” Christians. But, as usual you all are wrong.. those people do NOT represent Christianity and they also don’t represent the majority of Christians. Again, liberals/atheists always have to point to the fringe.. those who are NOT following Jesus’ teachings to support their biased claims.
LikeLike
According to Parley Baer who played Chester Proudfoot on the radio, Chester’s last name was changed for television in order to avoid a plagerism lawsuit. Chester’s character had no surname until Baer ad libbed “Proudfoot” during an early rehearsal. Initial Gunsmoke scripts gave him no name at all. There was nothing in the radio series to suggest that Chester Proudfoot was disabled, a merely visual feature added to the Chester Goode character on television.
The first episode was introduced by a narrator named Wayne:
LikeLike
“Kathy, ” it just shows how narrow yours and other liberals thinking is.. not having proof now isn’t proof that I’m wrong.. it takes more time than that. That’s how science works.”
Exactly Kathy ! This is the most sane statement you have made on this blog ! We keep telling you the same thing about the creation of the universe and its beginning ! Science will tell us the secrets of the universe in time. That’s how science works !
Thank you for agreeing with us ! You are definitely showing progress ! Congratulations ! ”
kc, how long do you think it should take for science to come up with a simple theory/ idea of our origins? It’s been a lot longer than a couple of decades.. and we don’t even have a supposition of how it all began. There IS a point where it becomes pure ignorance.
LikeLike
Kathy, nice of you to know and point out who are and aren’t Christians…….again !
LikeLike
“kc, how long do you think it should take for science to come up with a simple theory/ idea of our origins? It’s been a lot longer than a couple of decades.. and we don’t even have a supposition of how it all began. There IS a point where it becomes pure ignorance.”
Kathy, why is it you get to decide how long is enough ??? For your example, it wasn’t long enough, for our example, it’s been too long.
Where do you get this Authority ?
LikeLike
Ken, I just finished the documentary you recommended,.The Question of Miracles. It was absolutely superb. It really covered a lot of ground, especially in parts 3 and 4. I can’t recommend it enough to others. It’s well worth the time invested. I’m going to add it to my blog post “How I Fell In Love With Jesus”. The doc compliments it perfectly.
In part 3, when he was talking about how people come under the spell of these evangelists (and dictators like Hitler) I was reminded of some research I posted in that same post not long ago:
“The Power of Music: Mind Control by Rhythmic Sound“
An excerpt:
“Rhythmic sound not only coordinates the behavior of people in a group, it also coordinates their thinking—the mental processes of individuals in the group become synchronized. This finding extends the well-known power of music to tap into brain circuits controlling emotion and movement, to actually control the brain circuitry of sensory perception.
This discovery helps explain how drums unite tribes in ceremony, why armies march to bugle and drum into battle, why worship and ceremonies are infused by song, why speech is rhythmic, punctuated by rhythms of emphasis on particular syllables and words, and perhaps why we dance. Within a few measures of music your brain waves start to get in synch with the rhythm…]. The EEG recordings showed that the waves of brain activity (alpha and beta waves) became synchronized around the auditory rhythm. Rhythmic sound synchronizes brain waves.”
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/10/19/the-power-of-music-mind-control-by-rhythmic-sound/
Thanks again for bringing it to my attention. I doubt Kathy or Mike will watch it, but I hope others will take the time to watch (Hello Hayden) should they have doubt of the power of the mind, the power of suggestion, the power of the placebo effect, the power of our own biopharmacy, the power of brain wave entrainment, and so much more.
LikeLike
Victoria, I’m glad you were able to learn something from it. I always enjoy you and others posting links to articles and videos that I can learn from. 🙂
LikeLike
“how long do you think it should take for science to come up with a simple theory/ idea of our origins?” – Who are you kidding, Kathy – science knows all about our African origins, how we evolved to walk upright, how we migrated to the other continents – dozens of books have been written on the subject. Where have you been? Oh, yeah – church.
LikeLike
That helps explain Rep – I can’t say, “Rap music,” as that would be a contradiction in terms.
LikeLike
Ken, I’ve been researching this very subject for over 10 years now. I didn’t really learn anything new, per se, but what I loved about this doc was that it brought so much of the research together in one video. I was able to induce the sensed presence and the release of opiates (endorphins) on myself and on my clients via brainwave entrainment and complex magnetic wave forms. I am currently co-authoring a book with a behavioral neuroscientist regarding the brain’s role in religious experiences.
I can see the benefit of non-authoritarian religions when the emphasis is on spirituality, but what I hate to see are evangelicals, not just people like Benny Henn, but many, if not most evangelical pastors and evangelists using these very techniques in their services and knowingly taking advantage of people for filthy lucre’s sake. I saw most of these techniques used in nearly every evangelical church i was involved in over the years. If people only realized how powerful their brain is, they would become empowered and these snake oil salesmen would go out of business.
LikeLike
“I am currently co-authoring a book with a behavioral neuroscientist regarding the brain’s role in religious experiences.” – Well, YAY, you!
LikeLike
Thanks, Arch. 🙂
LikeLike
@”The BIRD”
[“Why’d you have to say it twice?” – I DIDN’T! Stupid WordPress did! I just chew my tobaccy onc’t and then I spit it out!] —- You were supposed to say “because it is JUST – THAT – IMPORTANT – HAYDEN!”
@Zoe, That wasn’t supposed to have a negative tone to it or a tone of condescension. I just meant that God never wanted to be feared.
@kcchief1 “Victoria, here is an HBO Documentary on the subject,…” — Why are you giving her more fuel?!
From the NeglectedNecro I got “I hope others will take the time to watch **(Hello Hayden)**” DO YOU SEE MY NAME HERE KC? “…should they have doubt of the power of the mind, the power of suggestion, the power of the placebo effect, the power of our own biopharmacy, the power of brain wave entrainment, and so much more.”
Soooooo thank you KC Now I got to watch the damn thing too!
@NightNymph “I am currently co-authoring a book with a behavioral neuroscientist regarding the brain’s role in religious experiences.”
I know “The BIRD” said this earlier but congratulations!
LikeLike
“Now I got to watch the damn thing too!” – Look at the bright side, it’ll keep you off the street for an hour or so.
LikeLike
Kathy says: “You make the naïve assumption that the proof can be had in a decade or two.. it just shows how narrow yours and other liberals thinking is.. not having proof now isn’t proof that I’m wrong.. it takes more time than that. That’s how science works.”
Kathy, how can you argue that “it’s clearly destructive to humanity” and “you don’t truly care about the harm it’s causing” (July 21, 2014 at 6:20 pm) if you can’t point to a single country that’s experienced social decline after legalizing same-sex marriage? Without supporting evidence, your claims are merely empty assertions.
LikeLike
Hagee needs to go on a diet. Gluttony is a sin.
LikeLike