So I’ve decided to bring the “Kathy” series to an end. However, we’ve had some fun in those threads when the conversation has gone off into interesting tangents, so I’d like to keep that part of it going for anyone who’s interested. These new threads will no longer focus on Kathy or the things we were discussing with her. So thanks for your time, Kathy! Take care.
There are no real rules for these threads. But to kick off the conversation, I’ll go back to the discussion on Paul that a few of us were having. Laurie views Deut 13 as a prophecy about Paul, so why don’t we take a quick look at it?
“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.
6 “If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.
12 “If you hear in one of your cities, which the Lord your God is giving you to dwell there, 13 that certain worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, 14 then you shall inquire and make search and ask diligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, 15 you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction, all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword. 16 You shall gather all its spoil into the midst of its open square and burn the city and all its spoil with fire, as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. It shall be a heap forever. It shall not be built again. 17 None of the devoted things shall stick to your hand, that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of his anger and show you mercy and have compassion on you and multiply you, as he swore to your fathers, 18 if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, keeping all his commandments that I am commanding you today, and doing what is right in the sight of the Lord your God.
I can see how one could apply this to Paul. However, I can also see how Jews could have applied it to Jesus as well, especially if he was claiming divinity for himself. And I’m sure this could have applied to lots of people during Israel’s history. Why should we think it’s pointing to Paul specifically, and why wouldn’t it also apply to Jesus?
Finding Truth 
Night 🙂
I’ll leave you with this, because I think its brilliant
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I’m definitely prideful at times, believe it or not I am a bit of a narcissist …but I’m aware of it 🙂 first step to change is self awareness right?
We all are prideful at times, Ryan. I wouldn’t categorize that as being a narcissist. It’s been my experience that narcissists either don’t know that they are narcissistic or don’t care. Either way they aren’t interested in changing because they don’t see it as a character flaw.
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N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ
no I’m not offended…
I just don’t know what to say really, so I figure its better to not say anything…
Its like some guy always says…
if I’ve got nothing to say…then I’m probably not going to say anything helpful…..
If this changes, I’ll let you know 🙂
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@Howie, RE: “if there are gods that want to be involved in that positive process then the more the merrier!
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Ryan, fair enough, and I’m glad to know you are not offended. It would be nice, however, to get more background from you. When I share an opinion, I generally back it up with research. When you share your opinions, and do so with much assurance, I’m curious as to what you base your opinions on, especially the “god said, god does, god wants”, opinions.
Rest well. Awesome video, btw. Nighty night.
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“The simple lack of belief that a god did any of that is not prideful. Acknowledging that I do not know what a first cause, if in fact there was a first cause, is in no wise egotistical. I do not boast that I have any significant part in it. I don’t fancy myself a special creation. I find it more prideful to believe that all of this was done so that I might have life as some special creation. I find it more prideful to boast that I have a knowledge that I simply do not have and may never have.”
well said, ruth.
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“Wait, why did Neuro get blamed for my snarkiness?” that was YOU Howie? I’m not going all the way back to look, but I could have sworn it was Neuro – it sounded SO much like something she’d say —
(wubbles, Neuro!)
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I’ll give you a quick honest answer Victoria 🙂
Its scary, I am quite a indecisive person I’ve discovered over the years.
I base my opinions on what I’ve been told at church, what I’ve heard on you tube, what my pastors have shared with me over the years. what I’ve read in the Bible. The deep feelings I have in my heart. Also fear of the unknown, a desire to know what is real, a desire to connect with others. Interactions that I have ummmed and arred whether they were from God or if Im just second guessing….
God is Love. Love casts out all fear. Honouring God for me should involve loving others where they are at. Because God loves me where I’m at. Even when I don’t believe I deserve it, and don’t accept it. Christ taught that love was the Way to God. And then He exemplified this through his life.
many of my closest friendships started from simply stepping out in faith. Hopefully through Gods grace I’ll step out and find more of who Christ is in those around me, and listen more often when God speaks to me. And hopefully seek more often to understand. I have a lot of apathy, but I believe because of these things.
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For those who didn’t watch the video Ryan posted, the visuals are awesome, especially towards the end. The tune is excellent, musically. I couldn’t make out the lyrics, so I just looked them up. Ryan, were you trying to convey a message to us?
“Inside”
The only thing that burns in Hell
Is the part of you that won’t let go of your life
Your memories, your attachments
They burn them all away
But they’re not punishing you, he said
They’re freeing your soul, relax
Something’s gone
This can’t go on
This open road
For far too long
Through all these tears
No light appears
And all that trust
It’s turned to dust
So one thing’s clear
Am I here?
Am I here?
So break on through
For something true
Cause love’s confused
And now I see
Sense in all of this
Something’s got to give
You don’t wanna see
You don’t wanna see
Inside of me
In time
You’ll find
You don’t wanna see
Inside of me
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And for me, Portal, the following would be foolish:
(a) I want to be under Gods authority, even if He isn’t real.
(b) I want to follow Gods decrees, even if They aren’t divine.
(c) I want god to dictate every aspect of my life, even at the expense of denying truth.
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N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ
it resonates with me, but then again many bits of different songs do….
in this case not the whole song though
and not in the way you might think 🙂 for me personally its not a reflection of my faith.
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Amen, Neuro (re Sagan) —
“
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Ryan, thank you for taking the time to answer. It really does help to know a little about you, why you believe what you believe. I only wish more Christians were like you. Come to fundamental America and see what I mean. I’ll give you the grand tour. 😉
The most dysfunctional states in America tend to be the most religious, most fundamental in their bible beliefs. I’m not sure if the video/tune you shared with us was meant to be a message to us, and if so, what that message meant. But, one thing is certain, I do want to know what’s inside of you. I think you’re cool.
Now go to bed. 😀
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@Arch,
I was only familiar with that first quote and all of those are awesome. The second one is actually something similar to what I have said to people myself.
And that last one about popping down for a cold one – that was brilliant and must have been written by a famous man.
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“And that last one about popping down for a cold one – that was brilliant and must have been written by a famous man.” – I’ve no doubt —
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@ Howie … or maybe infamous?
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You’re cracking me up Nan! Today you’re the snarky one. 😀
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“or maybe infamous?” – that’s actually the higher compliment!
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Nan, I was at school, so couldn’t comment (on someone else’s computer) – “infamous” is the descriptor I was thinking of, too! 🙂
Howie – what? Some of us SNARKY??
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“that’s actually the higher compliment!”
For example, ask someone like Kathy who Thomas Paine (famous) is – no clue. Ask who Jack the Ripper was, and you’ll at least get “a Liberal?”
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C’mon, Arch. Quit trying to soft-pedal. You know it fits.
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Not a sinister kind of infamous, arch – you know, the ‘wittiest word mister’ kind of infamous.
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Oh, I dunno, Carmen. I think he’s pretty sinister at times.
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“In-famous? In-famous?”
– Dusty Bottoms
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Nan, you realize he’s probably sitting at his computer with an Alfred E. Neuman grin on. …
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